Dylann Roof Sentenced to Death

[_Xenu_]

Just this week we had stories about a man and his girlfriend who raped and dismembered her daughter, for fun, and a woman who stuffed her child into a bathroom for over a year...12 years old weighed 30lbs. Give me the fuckin button and get outa the way pussies, shit about to get taken care of.

This.

[FaithIsFilth]

Do the victims families even want to see him die? From what I remember, a bunch of them forgave him shortly after the crime.

I don't want to see him executed. If you don't allow any executions, you can't execute any innocent people. There's a small chance he could escape, but other than that, there's no good reason to kill him rather than lock him up for life, other than maybe some people in the black community will get upset and say that he would have been put to death if he were black. And then there's the issue of free will. He had no choice but to do what he did, so I don't think he deserves to lose his life.

[SGOS]

I think the victims families were divided over the issue.

[Baruch]

I think the victims families were divided over the issue.

People's opinions are always divided, even if we are talking about one person.  On that basis we should avoid all action?  A true average of a lot of people, and yes, there would be no action, because you would please some people and piss off others.  This is why there is politics, instead of paralysis.

[SGOS]

People's opinions are always divided, even if we are talking about one person.  On that basis we should avoid all action? 

I was just responding to the question about how the victims families felt about the sentence, and it was only an impression I got from reading a couple of articles.  I haven't seen an actual poll of the families.  I wasn't expressing an opinion about what action should be taken on the basis of families feelings.  Nor do I think the death penalty should be decided on the basis of victims bias.

A true average of a lot of people, and yes, there would be no action, because you would please some people and piss off others.  This is why there is politics, instead of paralysis.

Politics is paralysis.  In the few dealings I've had with politicians, my experience is that politicians don't want to take action on divided opinions.  They want consensus, or close to one, so that they piss off as few people as possible.  Unless of course they have large contributions from a specific entity, which often carries more weight for them than does a consensus.

[Hakurei Reimu]

Yes, we don't need inventors ... just industrial giants.  And we don't need scientists ... just industrial giants.  And we don't need mathematicians ... just industrial giants.  And we don't need industrial giants, because everything accomplished since 1700 are by the Rothschild controlled Bank of England and its branch offices like the Federal Reserve.  So all we really need is banking, with lots of usury ... and fake money (actual gold and silver are too restrictive of megalomania).  Please bow down and worship Jamie Dimond next time you go to get your payoff.

Weak, even for you. Electrification required large investment of capital or it was never going to happen. Tesla wasn't going to get that money, and even if he did (and managed to use it properly), he would be a... well, industrial giant. Whoops. The war of currents wasn't a struggle between Edison and Tesla any more than it was between Edison and Westinghouse. If it was just Edison against only Tesla, Tesla would have lost hands down.

[Baruch]

Weak, even for you. Electrification required large investment of capital or it was never going to happen. Tesla wasn't going to get that money, and even if he did (and managed to use it properly), he would be a... well, industrial giant. Whoops. The war of currents wasn't a struggle between Edison and Tesla any more than it was between Edison and Westinghouse. If it was just Edison against only Tesla, Tesla would have lost hands down.

Rural electrification came in the 1930s under FDR ... thanks to free Federal deficits.  No commercial entity would have bothered to electrify (or TVA) Appalachia, it only pays to take care of the big cities.  The rest of us are fly-over country.  I guess you just love Westinghouse.  You related to Reddy Kilowatt?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reddy_Kilowatt

[Mr.Obvious]

And then there's the issue of free will. He had no choice but to do what he did, so I don't think he deserves to lose his life.

I don't support death penalty in the slightest. And, I think that like you, I don't believe in free Will in THE way its often talked about.
But I don't think THE lack of free will is something to counter in when deciding guilt or innocence and THE severity of the punishment. (Unless it shows one is genuinly insane and can't comprehend THE consequences of one's actions.)

[AllPurposeAtheist]

The thing about the death penalty is they do it all wrong. The worse thing you can do to someone that commits henious crimes, especially a young person is to lock them up for 50-70 years with the other criminals in one of the most violent places imaginable. Killing them lets them off the hook right away with absolutely no further suffering and they do it in a way that is just about like going to the doctor to have surgery. In no way does it prolong the suffering of the person being executed.
I think the death penalty should be offered to anyone facing a long prison sentence. Make it the inmates choice. Tell them that they can sit and rot in the utter shithole that is prison or they can end it right then and there and save the state a ton of money.
I can absolutely guarantee you that if I were facing 20 years in prison and were offered the chance to go to sleep and not wake up I'd take execution EVERY SINGLE TIME.
I remember the last time I was locked up. It was only 10 days, but at the time I thought it was going to be for much longer. If they had offered to execute me I would have accepted with no reservations.
Think about it. You have to commit some serious henious crime to be let off the hook. Your average bad guy who may or may not have committed some horrendous crime usually has to sit in an extremely violent shithole and think about it for many long years while someone like Roof gets off the hook and gets to say the magic words (Forgive me father,  I'm a sinner) and go to heaven ..AND get on the front page of every major newspaper in the country plus cable.

[Baruch]

The death penalty is all about society getting to vicariously feel better, be less afraid (but we are less afraid if we lock people up too).

[FaithIsFilth]

I don't support death penalty in the slightest. And, I think that like you, I don't believe in free Will in THE way its often talked about.
But I don't think THE lack of free will is something to counter in when deciding guilt or innocence and THE severity of the punishment. (Unless it shows one is genuinly insane and can't comprehend THE consequences of one's actions.)

They can comprehend the consequences of their actions, so that makes them a really shitty person, but they didn't choose to be that shitty person, so I wouldn't kill someone for being unlucky. When it comes to punishment, I think public safety is the only thing that should be taken into account. I don't see why anything other than public safety should be relevant when deciding a punishment..

[Mr.Obvious]

They can comprehend the consequences of their actions, so that makes them a really shitty person, but they didn't choose to be that shitty person, so I wouldn't kill someone for being unlucky. When it comes to punishment, I think public safety is the only thing that should be taken into account. I don't see why anything other than public safety should be relevant when deciding a punishment..

So the lack of free will doesn't come into play, right?

[FaithIsFilth]

So the lack of free will doesn't come into play, right?

Well, I guess if there were free will, I still wouldn't see the need to put someone to death when they could just be locked up. I was against the death penalty before I knew about the lack of free will in life. The lack of free will makes the case for taking away the death penalty even stronger though, imo, and it could help change the minds of some of those who currently support it.

[Mr.Obvious]

Well, I guess if there were free will, I still wouldn't see the need to put someone to death when they could just be locked up. I was against the death penalty before I knew about the lack of free will in life. The lack of free will makes the case for taking away the death penalty even stronger though, imo, and it could help change the minds of some of those who currently support it.

Well, maybe. On the other hand: becoming convinced that there is no 'free will' as it's often talked about changed nothing on my view of the world, except for giving me another reason to not believe in an all-powerfull, all-knowing and all-loving creator-god. And that was all. Truth is, I think, the lack of free will doesn't even matter.

[Baruch]

Well, I guess if there were free will, I still wouldn't see the need to put someone to death when they could just be locked up. I was against the death penalty before I knew about the lack of free will in life. The lack of free will makes the case for taking away the death penalty even stronger though, imo, and it could help change the minds of some of those who currently support it.

I must disagree on the free will question.  If someone holds a gun to your head, to make you do something, then you aren't doing that of your free will.  But others would say, if you don't tell the gunman to blow your brains out, then you are a coward.  I can't accept determinism.  If determinism is right then it is OK to rob a 7-11, and OK for the cop to kill the perp without trial.  Maybe people who can't stand responsibility, want to believe that they have no choice?  Sartre will disagree.