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Started by Marc, January 07, 2017, 06:47:55 PM

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Baruch

Quote from: Journey_To_Mars on January 11, 2017, 07:41:25 PM
So if someone were to cut their hand off, would that be a greater experience than a thousand small cuts?

Depends on if you are a sadist or an Apache warrior ;-(  A famous legendary early Roman soldier burned his hand off, to intimidate his captors.  This is what G Gordon Liddy went around doing, burning his hand in candles to impress chicks, back before Watergate.

Of course, some forms of experience are just thoughts in your head or dreams even.  Without experience, you are basically unconscious.  But I was leaning toward the kind of experience that isn't a thought in your head, or a dream ... that empirically corroborates opinions.  Does ice float on water?
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Journey_To_Mars

Is it possible to be a sadist and a masochist at the same time? If so, which one would give the most memorable experience? What defines an experience if there are no living organisms to keep track of them? Are you experiences and my experience even happening at all? If so, what would you qualify to be a real experience? If not, what are witnessing and how are we thinking? Will there ever be a way to view what we call another person's experience? If so, what would it weight and how much would it cost, and what would the other person be experiencing while you experience his experience?
"It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets." - Voltaire

Maths is a game where you make the rules and play around within them.

Baruch

Quote from: Journey_To_Mars on January 11, 2017, 08:12:53 PM
Is it possible to be a sadist and a masochist at the same time? If so, which one would give the most memorable experience? What defines an experience if there are no living organisms to keep track of them? Are you experiences and my experience even happening at all? If so, what would you qualify to be a real experience? If not, what are witnessing and how are we thinking? Will there ever be a way to view what we call another person's experience? If so, what would it weight and how much would it cost, and what would the other person be experiencing while you experience his experience?

You have great potential.  Great minds have been thinking over this issue (not the sadist/masochist part) for hundreds of years.  Keep thinking about it, and get back to us.  The only thing wrong to say here ... is that I have an answer, let alone the answer ... and I am going to generously bestow it on you.  Do you know about George Berkeley?  He was writing about this back in 1700.  Also David Hume, who was writing back in 1750.

The perfect sadist/masochist encounter ... the masochist begs his mistress ... "please whip me" ... the mistress replies ... "no".

Yes, I could give you my answer, but you wouldn't understand it, because it isn't your answer.  But I will give you a hint ...

In the second (1980) Star Wars movie ... Yoda doesn't go far enough.  I believe I am talking to a young man, as Yoda was ... "made of flesh you are not, incarnate future you are".  Unless of course Luke kills himself while accidentally practicing with his lightsaber.  Then Yoda will sadly intone ... "Darwin example you were".
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Mike Cl

Quote from: Journey_To_Mars on January 11, 2017, 07:41:25 PM
So if someone were to cut their hand off, would that be a greater experience than a thousand small cuts?
Well, they would know not to do that again.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

Journey_To_Mars

Quote from: Baruch on January 11, 2017, 08:18:52 PM
You have great potential.  Great minds have been thinking over this issue (not the sadist/masochist part) for hundreds of years.  Keep thinking about it, and get back to us.  The only thing wrong to say here ... is that I have an answer, let alone the answer ... and I am going to generously bestow it on you.  Do you know about George Berkeley?  He was writing about this back in 1700.  Also David Hume, who was writing back in 1750.

The perfect sadist/masochist encounter ... the masochist begs his mistress ... "please whip me" ... the mistress replies ... "no".

Yes, I could give you my answer, but you wouldn't understand it, because it isn't your answer.  But I will give you a hint ...

In the second (1980) Star Wars movie ... Yoda doesn't go far enough.  I believe I am talking to a young man, as Yoda was ... "made of flesh you are not, incarnate future you are".  Unless of course Luke kills himself while accidentally practicing with his lightsaber.  Then Yoda will sadly intone ... "Darwin example you were".

But could a single person simultaneously be a sadist and a masochist?
"It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets." - Voltaire

Maths is a game where you make the rules and play around within them.

Blackleaf

Quote from: Journey_To_Mars on January 11, 2017, 11:02:16 PM
But could a single person simultaneously be a sadist and a masochist?

Yes, people can be both. I believe in some circles (the "50 Shades of Grey" type), they are referred to as "switches" because they can switch between roles of top and bottom.
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville--

Journey_To_Mars

Okay thank you, that's all I really wanted to know.
"It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets." - Voltaire

Maths is a game where you make the rules and play around within them.

Marc


Cavebear

Quote from: Marc on January 17, 2017, 09:43:35 PM
Thanks everyone :)
Marc, atheism isn't a journey or a belief.  It is nonconcern with superstition.  I never was theist.  I knew people went to churches, but it never interested me.  The idea of atheism occurred to me when I was about 12.  I knew a belief in a deity didn't match what I knew about the world, but I didn't have a term for it.  Just one day the question of a deity really came to my mind and I thought it didn't make much sense. 

It took months to even discover the term "atheist".  Well, we didn't have the internet in 1962.  I just knew without much concern that I wasn't a deity-believer. It just made sense to me.

I could give a lot of reasons, but that's not the point.  Either you think that there is some sort of "power" out there somewhere or you don't. And I don't.  I think the universe is pretty much what we see, that there may or may not be other life out there, and that that our lives are just what they seem...

Nothing more, but also nothing less than that.

Hope this helps.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Baruch

One's intuition is who we truly are.  It is out of the unconscious.  The conscious mind is just mental masturbation.  Discussion is masturbation in pubic ;-)
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

Quote from: Baruch on January 31, 2017, 12:53:21 PM
One's intuition is who we truly are.  It is out of the unconscious.  The conscious mind is just mental masturbation.  Discussion is masturbation in pubic ;-)

Au Contraire!  The conscious mind is what separates us from, um, pre-us.  Ask any spider monkey.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Unbeliever

Hi Marc!


I was once on fire for God - until reason came along and put out the flames.

I didn't choose to stop believing, I just woke up one morning and realized that I no longer did believe. I've been an unbeliever ever since.

I hope you find what you need.
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Baruch

Quote from: Cavebear on January 31, 2017, 01:49:25 PM
Au Contraire!  The conscious mind is what separates us from, um, pre-us.  Ask any spider monkey.

Yes, they shamelessly do that ... that in public.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

Quote from: Baruch on January 31, 2017, 06:45:19 PM
Yes, they shamelessly do that ... that in public.

Well, imagine doing everything you do in private, in public... 24/7 365/lifetime.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Baruch

Quote from: Cavebear on February 05, 2017, 04:52:00 AM
Well, imagine doing everything you do in private, in public... 24/7 365/lifetime.

What fur? ;-)
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.