Started by 374621, November 10, 2016, 06:02:19 PM
Quote from: popsthebuilder on November 21, 2016, 09:03:29 PMMorality and the conscience are natural for man. If this has always been the case; who knows. But evidently it was bound to happen. Other animals show empathy and altruism as well. It is very significant for the advancement of man and life as a whole on this planet, but due to societal norms and greed most actively preoccupy themselves and in doing so basically ignore the conscience or twist it to work towards ones one greedy wants and needs which isn't the correct usage. Kind of like how people shut off emotions, insisting they are insignificant. It is a conclusion predetermined to fit into ones tendencies. Anyone can grasp that emotions and intellect work together in a system much more effectively than separated. If one has no emotion then nothing has significance to them. This is a type of neurosis, as is negation and manipulation of the conscience.Religions didn't invent it. They attempted, as best they could, to grasp hold of it and expound on it as it is within all of us. Somewhere along the line, shortly after the crucifixion of the Christ, man was intentionally lead astray by those who where wholly enveloped in greed. These powers have successfully lead the masses astray ever since. This is slowly changing though and eventually will only be a memory of a chaotic time when people let pride and greed run the world and perhaps nearly destroy it.Eventually people will understand that refuting nonsensical dogma isn't synonymous with refuting the conscience or objective morality, and that though man has lead and gone astray, that in no way refutes the possibility of the existence of GOD or the significance and origin of the conscience. Due to our freedom we must learn from our mistakes. Those who proudly proclaim their own salvation make a grand mistake due to pride. Those who consider morality or the conscience to be an invention of corrupt man to manipulate the masses too make a grand mistake. What they did was find away to distract people from it, all while lining their own pockets.Sorry, probably rambling.Sort of a touchy subject.Peace
Quote from: Cavebear on November 17, 2016, 06:18:37 AMI could kill without much concern for a good reason... You aim a gun at an innocent person, and I have one, you're dead. There are 6 billion of us, you aren't special, and no loss when you you are gone.
Quote from: Cavebear on November 21, 2016, 10:25:30 PMTheistic rules generally represent civilization rules worked out slowly over millenia by non-theists. The theists take the rules that work for society and add a few religious strictures in there and LO! THERE BE RELIGIOUS COMMANDMENTS!From basic ethical/social rules non-theists worked out on their own...
Quote from: Baruch on November 22, 2016, 07:17:17 AMPractical history is hard to do, psychological history is even harder. Color me skeptical. I think people are jerks now, and have pretty much always been jerks.
Quote from: popsthebuilder on November 22, 2016, 06:52:16 AMWhat don't you get about morality and the conscience not being developed by man, but intrinsic and natural? Also I didn't mean that the conscience came along only after the Christ. That era is when man became generally oblivious to it is what I was saying.
Quote from: Mike Cl on November 22, 2016, 08:55:44 AMI'll answer that question, Pops, with one of my own. What don't you get about morality and the conscience being developed by mankind from within the fabric of a group or culture? It's part of evolution; man developed morality to help insure the survival of the group. That's why there is no set 'morality' worldwide, because the world is made up of numerous groups and cultures, each with their own 'morality' and conscience. Since christ (which you still don't seem to understand is not Jesus' last name--there were/are many--and that christ is a fiction) is a fiction, the bible is only a reflection of the morality of a specific group at a specific point in time. So, the 'morality' of the bible is not a fiction, but too specific to be of any value now. And it is even more complicated than that in that there are several 'moralities' reflected in the bible since there are several groups at several different time frames. But it is still too specific to be of any value to us now.
Quote from: popsthebuilder on November 22, 2016, 08:40:12 AMThere is freedom and potential for either direction. Each with a profound effect on existence, be it positive or negative.
Quote from: popsthebuilder on November 22, 2016, 09:43:19 AMIf a thing is developed by mankind then it is a fabrication. You cannot say it is a product of evolution or nature and a product of man.Peace
Quote from: Cavebear on December 09, 2016, 05:32:26 AMEverything made or thought of by mankind is a fabrication. We are living fabrication, the first self-aware creatures who can consider their own origins, current existence, and future demise. No creature before us ever looked at the stars and wondered what they were. Heck, no lion ever looked at an antelope hoofprint and made the connection that one passed and maybe should be followed. The smartest ape can pound a nut with a rock. Seen any writing a book or trying out a kite? We look at stars, contemplate our past, and measure the planet.
Quote from: popsthebuilder on November 21, 2016, 09:03:29 PMmost actively preoccupy themselves and in doing so basically ignore the conscience or twist it to work towards ones one greedy wants and needs which isn't the correct usage.
Quote from: popsthebuilder on November 21, 2016, 09:03:29 PMKind of like how people shut off emotions, insisting they are insignificant.
Quote from: popsthebuilder on November 21, 2016, 09:03:29 PMAnyone can grasp that emotions and intellect work together in a system much more effectively than separated. If one has no emotion then nothing has significance to them. This is a type of neurosis, as is negation and manipulation of the conscience.
Quote from: SGOS on December 09, 2016, 08:09:11 AMMost? Probably all people do this. Every neurosis, probably every psychosis, can be found in small traces in every one of us. It's part of the clutter created by an evolved brain, which while providing survival potential, is also horribly flawed. I don't know what you mean by correct usage. How do you determine correctness?Generally speaking, shutting off emotions to the point of not feeling them, is unhealthy, although everyone does this to a degree. Emotions do serve a purpose in our survival, and I welcome them as much as I welcome reality. Where people commonly err is to read their emotions as indicators of reality. Emotions can help you flee or fight or even love, but as indicators of reality, they are useless. Emotions are not knowledge, and that's where people get confused. Here's an example of how emotions are unhelpful indicators of realty:I hate witches.We should burn all witches.It makes me feel safer.I like doing God's will.We obviously disagree on this point.