‘Impeach Trump’ — Protests Erupt Over Election Win -Already started.

[Cavebear]

He understand things very well. He is just cynical, exhausted and old with no hope. Also a theist, yuck! I have a irrational bias in favour of untraditional Jewish people. Occupational hazard. Can't help it. 

Speaking of who... has nayone seen pr126 around? Missed him. I hope the old man still alive and healthy.

No theists are, by definition, entirely rational.

[Baruch]

No theists are, by definition, entirely rational.

Here at least, atheists are not entirely rational either.  Rationalism is other-rated.

[drunkenshoe]

Rationalism is other-rated.

[Baruch]

Excuse my malapropism ... but those are my best compositions ;-)  I just realized that my typo reads better than the original thought, so I will leave it as is.

[Cavebear]

Excuse my malapropism ... but those are my best compositions ;-)  I just realized that my typo reads better than the original thought, so I will leave it as is.

Sometimes the fingers think better than the mind...  ;)

[drunkenshoe]

Excuse my malapropism ... but those are my best compositions ;-)  I just realized that my typo reads better than the original thought, so I will leave it as is.

Oh gawd, you meant to write 'over-rated'! But that your typo was brilliant. Not you, mind. Your typo! :PP

[widdershins]

To widdershins and everyone who looks with the same apathy and despise to the protests and riots.

Sure you can blame people for violence, but that never means you are actually pointing out a good reason or making a rational explanation or even it is the correct way to go according to the given circumstances contrary to your belief. There is a huge difference between wanting to blame people because you hate what is happening; because you think they are bad at losing AND why those people are actually rioting. This is not a fucking football game. This is your country. And that country has a huge inlfuence on the planet.

But what is so important at this point is that you and most of the Americans STILL HAVE NO IDEA what has just happened as far as I can see. This is not some ordinary election that was lost to republicans, it is not even about that orangutan. The new America, the religious facist America will come with sweet tongues of proganada and democracy to destroy everything that was accomplished more or less, good or bad.

You know why? Because when Obama came to power, Republicans in the USA 'dropped' class badly for the first time in your country's history. The question of did they really is not important. The point is all the nationalist and religious, fascist groups in every culture have the basic common trait of seeing themselves as the city hall; the state and the moment they have become the marginalised, the moment the social change gives it fruit they strike back viciously, in the most organised and brutal way and then one day you wake up and look and cannot recognise the place you live in.

Those people are not rioting because they have LOST some race. They are young people who are aware the possible consequences and results of what is lost, because all that progressive 'shit' people love to look down ACTUALLY WORKED. Because they have lived in that America the last 8 years, they have become adults in that America. They are alive.

And American youth kicked ass compared to their old, racist, ignorant fellow Americans who is holding on to the an ancient obslete social system. They will continue to that by protests and riots I hope, they will not sit on their ass throwing cycnical hatred around in front of the computer and calling social reaction and explosion against a catastrophie 'stupid'.

What is so alien to me this obviously American trend of looking at protests and riots as abhorrent senseless actions of violence. This is bullshit and more royalist than the king. People of the world would laugh at you EXTRA for this even in the ME; in all those ocuntries American cultures loves to look far down. If over a million people can go out in Anatolia by themselves to protest a govenment, you can too.

YOU HAVE TO LEARN to get out and protest if it's necessary in this or that way, doesn't matter if you want or not. There is NO other way. Or you are going to wake up in an America that has lost the only few redeeming values of its existence we can actually defend.

Wake up. This is not the time to watch your country through comedy shows and football games from seperate teams AND wait for somebody to market you some saviour with high profit opinions.

YOU are the one who has no idea what just happened.  We LOST AN ELECTION.  That is ALL that has happened so far.  Yes, we lost to a truly despicable man.  But your argument is about what you THINK is going to happen, not anything he has actually done because he isn't even fucking in office yet.  How about we let a man commit a crime before we start convicting him for it?  A novel approach, I know.

ONCE Trump has actually done something, set forth some policy that is actually going to hurt people, THEN protest is valid.  Until then it's just whining that you lost.  And I'm sorry, but riots are NEVER okay.  They serve no purpose.  People get hurt, even killed, property gets damaged, the riot gets quashed, people get arrested and "bad guys" are named.  Those "bad guys" are always rioters.  You don't make your voice heard by rioting.  You take advantage.  When you riot it is not because HE is the problem because rioters BECOME the problem.

But until he has actually done something wrong (other than be a monumental jackass) I simply cannot and will not accept protests as valid.  This is how the fucking system works.  He won, it is our civic duty to accept that.  Do you think Republicans didn't feel the EXACT same way when a black Democrat took the office?  Hell, it broke their fucking party and actually created the current situation, they took it so badly!  But they didn't riot.  They DID say "Not MY president" and I condemned it then, why would I not condemn it now?

AFTER Trump has put some policy in place that will fuck people, THAT is the time to protest, PEACEFULLY AND LEGALLY!  Before then you're just whining that you lost.

[drunkenshoe]

YOU are the one who has no idea what just happened.  We LOST AN ELECTION.  That is ALL that has happened so far.  Yes, we lost to a truly despicable man.  But your argument is about what you THINK is going to happen, not anything he has actually done because he isn't even fucking in office yet.  How about we let a man commit a crime before we start convicting him for it?  A novel approach, I know.

ONCE Trump has actually done something, set forth some policy that is actually going to hurt people, THEN protest is valid.  Until then it's just whining that you lost.  And I'm sorry, but riots are NEVER okay.  They serve no purpose.  People get hurt, even killed, property gets damaged, the riot gets quashed, people get arrested and "bad guys" are named.  Those "bad guys" are always rioters.  You don't make your voice heard by rioting.  You take advantage.  When you riot it is not because HE is the problem because rioters BECOME the problem.

But until he has actually done something wrong (other than be a monumental jackass) I simply cannot and will not accept protests as valid.  This is how the fucking system works.  He won, it is our civic duty to accept that.  Do you think Republicans didn't feel the EXACT same way when a black Democrat took the office?  Hell, it broke their fucking party and actually created the current situation, they took it so badly!  But they didn't riot.  They DID say "Not MY president" and I condemned it then, why would I not condemn it now?

AFTER Trump has put some policy in place that will fuck people, THAT is the time to protest, PEACEFULLY AND LEGALLY!  Before then you're just whining that you lost.

And this is what I am saying. "When it is necessary." "When it is called for." Not just here, all over the forum.

Having said that, sorry, but nobody can blame those young people for reacting and protesting. Esp. a recluse living out of nowhere.  You had a military past, don't you? It's not up to you or your will. Stomp yout feet down all you want.

'Protesting peacefully and legally' LOL. I hope you don't get legally and peacefully shot during your peaceful and legal protest.

There is no such thing as a 'legal protest'. Civil disobedience does not require legality. That's all its point.

A peaceful protest is a result, NOT a plan. Protests depend on momentary changes, triggers, actions-reactions. You can have very peaceful good intentions, EVERYBODY in a rally can have very peaceful good intentions, it takes one jackass to cause mayhem and death.

YOU CANNOT CONTROL PEOPLE. PERIOD.

Oh gawd this will be an 'interesting' era. And NO, you still have no idea what just happened.

[widdershins]

And this is what I am saying. "When it is necessary." "When it is called for." Not just here, all over the forum.

Having said that, sorry, but nobody can blame those young people for reacting and protesting. Esp. a recluse living out of nowhere.  You had a military past, don't you? It's not up to you or your will. Stomp yout feet down all you want.

'Protesting peacefully and legally' LOL. I hope you don't get legally and peacefully shot during your peaceful and legal protest.

There is no such thing as a 'legal protest'. Civil disobedience does not require legality. That's all its point.

A peaceful protest is a result, NOT a plan. Protests depend on momentary changes, triggers, actions-reactions. You can have very peaceful good intentions, EVERYBODY in a rally can have very peaceful good intentions, it takes one jackass to cause mayhem and death.

YOU CANNOT CONTROL PEOPLE. PERIOD.

Oh gawd this will be an 'interesting' era. And NO, you still have no idea what just happened.

Don't get me wrong.  There definitely is a time for taking up arms.  But that time isn't "Shit!  My candidate lost and I'm PISSED OFF!"  Paint it how you want, that's what's happening.  Trump has done nothing so far to warrant armed revolt.  I'm not saying he won't and, in fact, he might.  But I doubt it.  I really don't think he's a stupid man.

There very much is such a thing as "legal protest".  It's part of our Constitution, in fact.  But the word "peaceably" is in there.

And I'm not saying anything is up to me or my will.  All I am saying is that if I accept it now and don't speak out against it I have to accept it in the future the next time we elect a Democrat outside the "norm" for presidency, whether it be a black man, a Jewish woman or an atheist.  And let's be realistic here, if this had been happening 8 years ago, which side would you have been on then?  Would you then have been excusing riots?  Would you then have been so very understanding where they are coming from?  Or would you have been wailing and bitching about how racist they were?  Don't forget, Republicans feel this way EVERY TIME they lose an election.  They ALWAYS think it's the end of the world.  In my life I do not remember a Democrat president that they didn't at least try to find a way to impeach, and now the sane side is doing it.

I'm not saying people don't have right or reason to be upset.  I guess what I'm saying is that I'm sad to see the "sane side" being the ones to throw the fit this time, and take it much, much further than the nut jobs on the right ever did.  IF Trump does nothing more than enact a normal right-wing agenda, the same as any other right winger would have, IF all these fears are unfounded (and let's not forget, Trump has been all over the place on policy, so we really don't have a clue what he will actually do) then this becomes the new norm.  This is saying to the unstable masses on the right, the racists, the bigots and the hate mongers, "It's okay to be violent when you lose."  Realistically I see this as bringing a darker future than Trump is likely to, and I don't see anything resembling a bright future with Trump at the helm.

The Democrats have always been the reasonable ones.  Now there are no reasonable ones.  That makes for a pretty bleak future, as I see it.

[Baruch]

Thoreau, in Civil Disobedience, didn't trash things or try to escape punishment.  He felt sorry for the dysfunctional state, as he felt sorry for the neighbors who were mindlessly embracing industrialization.

To others ... so where were you protesting when Obama was doing awful things?  Admit it, you are a DDDDDDDD.  I assume you may have protested when George W was in office ... but you did it because he was an RRRRRR, not because he was evil.  You like evil, as long as a DDDDD does it.

[drunkenshoe]

Don't get me wrong.  There definitely is a time for taking up arms.  But that time isn't "Shit!  My candidate lost and I'm PISSED OFF!"  Paint it how you want, that's what's happening.  Trump has done nothing so far to warrant armed revolt.  I'm not saying he won't and, in fact, he might.  But I doubt it.  I really don't think he's a stupid man.

No, it isn't, widdershins. They have a right to react and it will calm down. And yes he is not a stupid man. He used the chepeast, racist most hostile identity politics for his campaign to wim and he did.  Those peole are not just young they are also from every group he verbally abused.

There very much is such a thing as "legal protest".  It's part of our Constitution, in fact.  But the word "peaceably" is in there.

Lol, I am aware there is something on paper. We have the same thing. The word you are looking for is 'civil disobedience' then.

And I'm not saying anything is up to me or my will.  All I am saying is that if I accept it now and don't speak out against it I have to accept it in the future the next time we elect a Democrat outside the "norm" for presidency, whether it be a black man, a Jewish woman or an atheist.  And let's be realistic here, if this had been happening 8 years ago, which side would you have been on then?  Would you then have been excusing riots? 

This is an invalid anaology. Nowhere near the same thing, not even remotely close. Obama did not win his elections by racist-hate mogering politics, abusing groups of people in America.

Trump owes his success to that racist, sexist, hate mongering disgusting campaign that is deliberately designed to provoke everyone around him and playing to the racist white through migrants and identity politics.

He doesn't even have any other plan for the issues of the country. He has spent his time by vomiting poison. 

Would you then have been so very understanding where they are coming from?  Or would you have been wailing and bitching about how racist they were?  Don't forget, Republicans feel this way EVERY TIME they lose an election.  They ALWAYS think it's the end of the world.  In my life I do not remember a Democrat president that they didn't at least try to find a way to impeach, and now the sane side is doing it.

This is an invalid anology, wrong example. Nobody treated rubes like Trump treated Americans during his campaign.

If Obama or any other candidate did a similar thing I WOULDN'T BE suppıorting him in the first place AND yes I would be saying the same things for them.

I'm not saying people don't have right or reason to be upset.  I guess what I'm saying is that I'm sad to see the "sane side" being the ones to throw the fit this time, and take it much, much further than the nut jobs on the right ever did.  IF Trump does nothing more than enact a normal right-wing agenda, the same as any other right winger would have, IF all these fears are unfounded (and let's not forget, Trump has been all over the place on policy, so we really don't have a clue what he will actually do) then this becomes the new norm.  This is saying to the unstable masses on the right, the racists, the bigots and the hate mongers, "It's okay to be violent when you lose."  Realistically I see this as bringing a darker future than Trump is likely to, and I don't see anything resembling a bright future with Trump at the helm.

The Democrats have always been the reasonable ones.  Now there are no reasonable ones.  That makes for a pretty bleak future, as I see it.

I understand what you are saying and agree with you in principle. However this is an ideal. And you are missing something when blaming young dems for this. And that is why I keep saying, you don't get what has just happened. You have described an America that has died with Obama 3 days ago.

If another republican candidate had won these elections without the toxic, posionous Trump campaign, this wouldn't have happened. People would really say, 'OK we lost this time'. But this is what hate mongering, racist politics make. Trump made it sure of this. This was his aim, his politics and how he suceeded. He didn't have any other ammunition. These people are not just acting out because their side lost. Action-reaction. Cause and effect.

And rubes now will attack people everywhere left and right. They have already started. Expecting people sit down on their ass, esp. young people, lgbtq and nonwhite minority is naive when their daily life is under direct impact.


But if someone's life is NOT affected directly, sure they have a space, attitude and means to argue that how baaad these reactions and protests are. It's a fucking movie to watch.
So what happens now? We arrive to the same point where Trump supporters stand at the 'end' of the circle. In short, let the sleeping dogs lie.

[widdershins]

This is an invalid anaology. Nowhere near the same thing, not even remotely close. Obama did not win his elections by racist-hate mogering politics, abusing groups of people in America.

They didn't see it any differently.  I'm not claiming their position is rational and yours is not.  Quite the opposite, in fact.  The right wing fear is quite irrational and yours is very rational.  But they don't see it that way.  We're talking about a group of people who, let's face it, aren't the best and the brightest America has to offer.  If it's no different to them then any future behavior similar to this is justified to them.

Trump owes his success to that racist, sexist, hate mongering disgusting campaign that is deliberately designed to provoke everyone around him and playing to the racist white through migrants and identity politics.

He doesn't even have any other plan for the issues of the country. He has spent his time by vomiting poison. 

I don't disagree with that.  It is not my position that Trump is just like any other politician.  His win in this election is very scary.  His election into office is a whole new level of stupid that I wouldn't have thought possible a year ago.  I knew there were a lot of dumb, racist people in America, but I had no idea there were so many.

This is an invalid anology, wrong example. Nobody treated rubes like Trump treated Americans during his campaign.

If Obama or any other candidate did a similar thing I WOULDN'T BE suppıorting him in the first place AND yes I would be saying the same things for them.

Now THIS is an invalid analogy.  I'm not talking about "the candidates", I'm talking about "the protesters".  Of course you wouldn't have stood by Obama if he were anything like Trump.  I wasn't talking about "if Obama were like Trump".  I was talking about "if there were this kind of reaction when Obama was elected".  EVERYBODY has their reasons for not liking this candidate or that and ALL of those reasons are valid, at least to the person with the reason.

I think our only real difference here is that I am trying to see both sides and realize that to Republicans an Obama administration was just as scary as a Trump administration is to...let's just say it, normal fucking people.  You, on the other hand, are only looking at your own fears, legitimate as they may be, and saying, "My fears are legitimate, theirs are not."  While that may be the case it's only so to you and those who think like you.

I understand what you are saying and agree with you in principle. However this is an ideal. And you are missing something when blaming young dems for this. And that is why I keep saying, you don't get what has just happened. You have described an America that has died with Obama 3 days ago.

I couldn't even predict the outcome of an election that was supposed to be a "sure thing", so I'm going to hold off on predicting what kind of shit America is going to be in until I see what the man actually does.  Until then, it's just speculation.  Informed speculation, maybe, but Trump has been so unpredictable that there can be no real certainty.

If another republican candidate had won these elections without the toxic, posionous Trump campaign, this wouldn't have happened. People would really say, 'OK we lost this time'. But this is what hate mongering, racist politics make. Trump made it sure of this. This was his aim, his politics and how he suceeded. He didn't have any other ammunition. These people are not just acting out because their side lost. Action-reaction. Cause and effect.

I understand that, but again, there are two sides.  What if Hillary had won and it was Republicans freaking out?  As far as they're concerned she eats the souls of babies to sustain herself.  They could use the exact same argument to excuse their abhorrent behavior and it would be just as valid to them as it is to you with Trump as the winner.

And rubes now will attack people everywhere left and right. They have already started. Expecting people sit down on their ass, esp. young people, lgbtq and nonwhite minority is naive when their daily life is under direct impact.

So what, exactly, are they doing?  They're throwing a fit.  They're not fighting against his policies because he doesn't have any yet.  They're throwing a pointless fit that will ACCOMPLISH NOTHING.  He still got the votes.  He's still the president elect.  He's still taking office January 20th and no amount of bitching and whining and protesting and rioting will change that.  They are protesting about nothing.  They are accomplishing nothing.  It is only after he actually does something that they can even hope to accomplish something.

But if someone's life is NOT affected directly, sure they have a space, attitude and means to argue that how baaad these reactions and protests are. It's a fucking movie to watch.
So what happens now? We arrive to the same point where Trump supporters stand at the 'end' of the circle. In short, let the sleeping dogs lie.

Really?  You think I don't have a stake in this?  You think we don't ALL have a stake in this?  I have a bisexual daughter who I very much want to grow up being who she is, not feeling like she has to hide her sexuality, not being shamed for it.  I'm middle class.  Do you think I don't know where the shots are going to be fired?  But what can I do about it RIGHT NOW?  Nothing.  Because no shots have actually been fired yet.  If I want democracy then I have to accept the democratic process, even when I don't agree with it, even when it scares me.

I understand that this guy is different.  I understand that this guy is dangerous.  I understand that this racist, selfish prick has emboldened racists everywhere.  I understand that this is bad and, believe me, if there were a legal, valid reason to keep him from office that would not threaten our democracy, I would be all the fuck over it.  But there isn't.  I can't do anything, I can't target anything, I can't fix anything that hasn't actually happened yet.

Our system isn't perfect, but just like the fact that you have to wait for a man to kill someone before you can arrest him for murder, you have to wait for Trump to do something before you can do something about it.  Until then you're just wasting time and effort or, worse, making negative progress and giving the other side ammunition to use against you later, over and over and over again.

[Sargon The Grape]

Donald Trump has historically had a liberal leaning in past interviews. This wouldn't be the first time a politician's campaign was drastically different from their real beliefs, so let's see what the man does before we convict him.


Equal opportunity butt-stabber.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

The election isn't over until the electors cast their votes. Things could still get interesting.

[trdsf]

Can't impeach without him a) being sworn in and b) him committing a high crime or misdemeanor.  Alas, being an epic cunt is not actually an impeachable offense.

That said, I won't be surprised if/when he does something impeachable -- and when the GOP House and Senate majorities turn a blind eye.  Because IOKIYAR.