How Do You Rate the 1st Debate?

[Hydra009]

I've most of the way done processing the debate and Hillary won.  She didn't KO the guy, but she definitely came across as more of a contender than him.  To be honest, I don't much like either of them, so don't think I'm automatically going to side with her.  I have gripes with her to be sure (slow to support gay marriage, voting for the resolution authorizing force in Iraq, fracking, etc) but she presented herself as calm, deliberative, and decently knowledgeable.  Trump was the polar opposite - nervous, shooting from the hip, and trying to sound knowledgeable without actually being knowledgeable.  He really hung himself a few times in his speeches.

Trump said he couldn't release his tax information because he's being audited.  That's lie #1.  And like Clinton pointed out, that makes it look like he has something to hide.  Then he says he'd release his taxes when Clinton releases her emails.  He's so used to wheelin' and dealin' that I think he forgets that there are some things you just can't make deals about.  Every Republican presidential candidate since Ford has released his taxes.  Either do it or don't.  And if you don't, expect people to factor that in at the polls.

He got attacked for his infamous global warming is a Chinese hoax tweet and he says he says he never said that.  Bullshit.  It's probably even still on his twitter feed right now, undeleted.  Skilled liars at least try to cover their tracks.  He had a great opportunity to repudiate or distance himself from that tweet, maybe even play it off as some kind of joke.  Instead, he tries to deny it.  Sorry, but it's on the internet and the internet never forgets.  Lying about it isn't fooling anyone.

He got attacked for the Birther thing and came up with this ridiculous narrative that he was just trying to draw out the truth to put any doubts to rest and was satisfied when Obama produced his birth certificate.  In reality, he persisted long after the birth certificate was produced..

And there's the "fighting ISIS your entire adult life" line.  I think he probably would have phrased it better if he had a minute to think, but Presidents don't often have a minute to think.  They have to speak off the cuff a lot of the time.  And if you speak off the cuff and sound like an idiot often enough, people are going to assume you're an idiotic President.  You know, like they did with Dubya Bush.  If you're a fan of Bushisms, Trumpisms are going to blow that out of the water.

And finally, there's the last part.  We should've just taken the Iraqi oil.  Jesus tap-dancin' Christ, I can't believe he doubled down on this.  In addition to absolutely murdering international relations that were strained enough during the Iraq war, that move would certainly violate international law.  So, kind of a bad idea.  And no, Trump wasn't against the Iraq war from the start.

I don't even really like Hillary personally but she looks great compared to this guy.  I'm half convinced he's secretly a part of the Clinton campaign and is trying his damnedest to make her look better by standing next to her.

[Shiranu]

I highly doubt trump would be the end of America, at worst I think he would be a Grant or Nixon level president.

[SGOS]

If you want to be president, you absolutely need to commit yourself to understanding the things a president has to deal with.  It is presumed that people who are on that track have learned a lot about what is true and what is false and what you can say and what you can't.  If you say things that are not true, you will be attacked by everyone from the opposition to the media.  Hell, you are going to be attacked for some of the truths you speak, but at least you will have lowered the amount of criticism you are in for, and you will be in a better position to defend yourself if you limit your words to the truth.  If foreign and domestic affairs are important to you, you learn what is true and what is false.  You learn it, not just because you need to.  You learn it because it interests you.  You become an expert of sorts because you are surrounded by the related facts and strategies.  These things become a part of your life.

Last night Trump didn't appear to be there.  He relies too much on bullshitting, which can sometimes be effective.  Sometimes, he does employ the art of lies.  All politicians do, but the successful ones know enough about the subject to craft believable lies.  Trump comes off as unprepared, because he IS unprepared, and woefully so.  He doesn't study.  He doesn't know the subject matter, and he doesn't seem to know that he needs to know the subject matter (i.e. that he needs to know what he's talking about).

Last night, he said things that were so embarrassingly out of touch or irrelevant or false, that I actually felt sorry for him.  I don't want a president I feel sorry for.  It's as bad as a president I hate, maybe even worse.  Like Hydra, I've been processing this stuff today too, and at this point my overriding impression is that Trump is a man in over his head.  I'm not sure he even realizes that, but his excessive floundering last night was telling.  He is not presidential material at this time, and probably never will be.

There is a reason employment want ads demand experience as essential.  No one would hire Donald Trump as head coach for the New York Yankees.  The reason why should be painfully obvious.  For that exact same reason, he should not be hired to run the country.  He doesn't know enough about what is required.

[SGOS]

I highly doubt trump would be the end of America, at worst I think he would be a Grant or Nixon level president.

I don't know about Grant, but while I disagreed with Nixon most of the time, he was much more prepared and knowledgeable than Trump, not to say he wasn't an absolute scoundrel, but he knew what he was doing, even if it wasn't what you wanted him to do.

[Atheon]

All the Republicans need to do in order to achieve their goal of setting up a one-party dictatorship and depriving Americans of all their rights and freedoms is to appoint Supreme Court justices who ignore the Constitution and rubber stamp egregious Republican legislature signed by a Republican president.

A Trump win could very well spell the end of American freedom and democracy.

The Republicans are currently breaking the law by refusing to approve Obama's Supreme Court appointment, hoping for the time to run out and that a Republican prez will be elected. It would be utter folly for Americans to legitimize this unethical and unconstitutional Republican delaying tactic by voting in a Republican president. If Hillary wins the Supreme Court will be safely liberal again for the first time in decades, and freedom will be safeguarded.

[PopeyesPappy]

I highly doubt trump would be the end of America, at worst I think he would be a Grant or Nixon level president.

Probably not, but he could set us back to Grant era laws and stack SCOTUS enough to keep us there for the next few decades.

[Atheon]

I have gripes with her to be sure (slow to support gay marriage

You do realize that before around 2010, it was political suicide for any politician not outside a "safe district" to voice support of gay marriage? For the same reason countless pro-gay politicians similarly had their hands forced on this issue: Obama, Gore, Kerry, Bill Clinton, etc.

[DeltaEpsilon]

Bipartisan fail for both candidate, both parties.  Just like business as usual in Washington DC.  The format isn't a real debate ... neither candidate could survive grilling by intelligent panelists (nor could Obama without the teleprompter).  Neither candidate can admit their money problems or they would go to jail.  Neither can go against the Narrative ... or the CIA would off them.  So more of the same, when that is the last thing we need.  The world of lemmings are still headed for the cliff.  Other commentators say ... both parties are ideologically exhausted.  Maybe ... or just under a CIA gag order.

I could only tolerate 10 minutes of it.  Hillary lost for lying, Trump lost for being a jerk (but that is normal in NYC).  Neither had a "fall on face" fail.

Will still be voting third party for conscience.  I don't fear either major candidate ... if the CIA wants nuclear war, then nuclear war it will be.

Sounds like you should take of that tin foil hat there. What you are proposing are just unsubstantiated conspiracy theories. I would appreciate it if you at least gave some resources to why you think that the CIA controls the outcome of every election.

[Hydra009]

You do realize that before around 2010, it was political suicide for any politician not outside a "safe district" to voice support of gay marriage? For the same reason countless pro-gay politicians similarly had their hands forced on this issue: Obama, Gore, Kerry, Bill Clinton, etc.

It wasn't political suicide before around 2010, and definitely not political suicide for a New York senator.  Plenty of Dems were supporting it by that point.  Hell, by that time, some states had started legalizing it.  She didn't come out as supporting gay marriage till 3 years after that, when the polls started to swing the other way.  (Correction, a couple years after the polls swung the other way.)  Obama beat her to it, to say nothing of Sanders.

Also, she wasn't secretly supportive of gay marriage but unable to act for fear of political repercussions.  She was asked exactly that on national TV and said no.

[AllPurposeAtheist]

Clinton handled it more like a lawyer handles a trial leading him down paths of self destruction time after time and he continually bit for it. She set him up over and over and the one thing that came out of his mouth when she said he paid no taxes should have been damning, but our nation is too fucked up to realize it..Not paying taxes makes him "smart".
While I have little use for paying taxes myself I also don't have millions in the bank. People making $100k paying out several thousand every year should feel like killing the fuck.
I have a hunch that several foreign governments are already making contingency plans of ways to assasinate him in the event he actually wins and holy mother of disease infested rats eating Jesus, does anyone realize the order of succession if he's killed? Pence, then Ryan then Orin Hatch to finally whoever is secretary of state under the dipshit, probably Sarah Palin.

[drunkenshoe]

No. A tiny, tiny part of me wants to see him win too, just because it would make this country need to start over after his term ends.

See, that's a very dangerous way to look at this. Why do you think the America promoted Trump to where he is now, suddenly going to change after Trump had a term?

- If they had that potential to register what is likely to happen in long term, Trump wouldn't be up there in the first place.

- Masses do not work that way. 'Ooops, we made a mistake let's ge organised and vote for the other guy next time'. No. They go on living with what is given to them. Masses react only when something obstruct their own lives dramatically and even then it takes a lot of different factors to come together, it is very hard to come by and it is very violent.

America is the country of the white and the religious. If Trump sits in that chair a very overwhelming majority of people will have no change in their lives. None what so ever. The skies won't suddenly get dark and things won't turn upside down if Trump wins, everything will go on the way it is. Everybody is going to get used to hear the word President Trump. Everybody will go on their old lives and if he wins in November, highly likley he'll win the next term.

There are lots of people who will vote for Turmp just because they are fed with fear, because they think they dropped class when Obama came, and fed up with lots of bullshit and he is saying what they want to hear; a high quality candidate wouldn't. It's why he managed so far. And they will be happy with their choice if he wins in this term, because his harm will not be something visible for the beginning. He is going to run with the hare and hunt with the hounds AND that's what all politicians do. He will go with the flow until he gets the enough power to make any real change his real core voters desire. Until then he will not make any radical moves and people will support him in this climate after he is elected.

Then when he is in a position to cause the country burn as you guys put it, he will already have created the perception management and the media make the majority of people say 'yeah that was the needed move in this circumstances'. I am not saying there won't be opposition. There will be tons, but it won't matter if he wins and plays according to the rules for a certain period. And that is not something as impossible as you people seem to think. It's actually just basic politics and even Turmp can pull that, anyone can pull that fater sitting in that chair. Esp. after the money pours in.

Who is going to make America start over again? Will America want to start over again? America will be a different America then in 8 years of time. As it was different when Bush first came to power and how different it became with Obama.


If Trump wins the result will only be that Trump won. Nothing good will come out of it. None. Nobody is going to wake up suddenly.

[chill98]

I fell asleep somewhere between the 30 and 45 min mark.  I tried not to but was tired to begin with so I needed the debate to be engaging to keep me glued to my tv.  It was not.

I had hoped to see some good media coverage of highlights but alas, that is not to be.  Was it because there were no real highlights?

Was there any substantial discussion of real issues or just a bunch of finger pointing with the "trust me I have a plan you can read about on my website" indicating neither candidate knows what that plan is?

From my 30 minutes, Clinton was better poised and winning the debate (even though I cant really call it a debate) but that does nothing to change my opinion of her; she is untrustworthy and will say anything to get elected.  A better actor than Trump which does nothing to convince me she would do right by me or america. 

Trump is just as bad but in a different way.  He is not an actor so much as a bully. And his life experience is limited to an obsession with money/self.  He is not, by nature, generous but he is curious about how to get more.  I don't like him either.  Couldn't stand 'the Donald' meme, only watch the apprentice when waiting for the next program to come on, etc but I think he is talking about some of the things that are important to many disenfranchised people.  The trade agreements are not fair. The border burden.  And he is a political outsider.  Voters have real issues with the party politics - on both sides - and have been losing ground because of it. 

So anyways, the debate did nothing to move me towards either.  Right now I am voting 3rd party just to not vote for either of these two.  However, if my state ends up being very very close come election day, I may swing towards Trump because I am convinced Clinton is that untrustworthy.

Oh, and I hate both of their VP candidates.  I would not want either of them as pres should something happen.

[Baruch]

Sounds like you should take of that tin foil hat there. What you are proposing are just unsubstantiated conspiracy theories. I would appreciate it if you at least gave some resources to why you think that the CIA controls the outcome of every election.

Since 1950, the CIA is authorized to violate every morality, every ethics, every law ... including the Constitution to insure the survival of the US aka the leadership of the US.  They are not under obligation to protect you and me, we are cannon fodder.  The Constitution hasn't been observed since 1950 (the Korean War) and still is ignored routinely.  The Constitution is the basis for the entire legal system; Federal, State etc ... ignore that, and in effect you ignore all of that.  Back then Stalin was a real boogie man ... and everyone thought we were 60 minutes from annihilation, so the expediency.  Until the Nixon administration, the President could declare martial law with absolute powers that would impress Louis XIV ... and I am not sure in reality, the President can't still.  The CIA is still doing its job along with the vast and not very effective security apparatus.  And that job isn't to a sanctimonious patriotism about justice and freedom ... survival aka end justifies the means ... trumps justice and freedom.  They got a black eye in the 1970s, but were never actually punished.  Congress admitted there was a conspiracy against JFK, then sealed the records.  In 1989 we actually had a CIA man (Bush Sr) as our President ... and he was probably the actual President thru the entire Reagan administration, just as Dick Cheney was the real President all during the Bush Jr administration.  Body doubles aren't necessary ;-)

People committed to the Matrix, are committed to their safe and immature views of normal daily life.  But we are still, long after 1991 ... within 60 minutes of sudden death.  If the CIA thought any candidate was a threat to the US (are any of them?) or a sitting official elected or appointed was a threat to the US ... they would be removed one way or another.  And while my republican and democratic instincts would reasonably be uncomfortable, I would support their removal.  This doesn't mean your vote doesn't matter, even though there is a government behind the government that we don't get to vote on.  We get to vote our acquiescence to the status quo ... voting is so that no revolutions stake place, to let people blow off steam.  Not for us to pretend that a direct democracy or mob rule over a giant nation is wise or possible.  It is a good thing.

[Baruch]

No. A tiny, tiny part of me wants to see him win too, just because it would make this country need to start over after his term ends.

The Left constantly wants revolution, not status quo.  Representative democracy in a republican package ... is meant to prevent this ... and it usually does.  When revolution slips in, the reactionaries deal with it, like with the Kennedy family, Malcolm X and MLK.  In GB ... revolution isn't tolerated either.  If Corbyn actually threatened the monarchy, he would be removed.  The leadership of the US gets similar protection, as we say in the oath of military members ... against all threats foreign and domestic.  Voters are a domestic threat ... they have to be managed.

[Baruch]

Forget politics.  If I had to listen to Trump's particular speech pattern for 4 years, I'd go bonkers.  I can't tell if he's inarticulate or profoundly stupid or trying to appeal a constituency that can't handle words bigger than five letters, but any way you slice it, it's not a great fit for President.

Sam Harris did a great impersonation of him on his podcast.  Not great, superb.  Really superb.  Superb like the Eiffel Tower.  Or the Great Wall of China.  China has great walls.  Walls are great.  We should have our own Great Wall.  A strong wall.  A real wall.  Walls will make America great again!

Maybe this is why Putin likes him ... Putin would always be the smartest guy in the room with President Trump.  With President Clinton, he would have to worry that the Billinator would be backstage trying to diddle his Russian female associates.  Nyet to that!