Started by randomvim, September 11, 2016, 03:14:56 AM
Quote from: SGOS on March 12, 2017, 07:52:01 AMAbsolutely. I was an agnostic, during the years of my religious quest. I cared deeply about answering the question of God's existence. I could think of no greater question that needed an answer at the time. My position on agnosticism has never changed. I intuitively knew the big question could not be answered when I started, and I am at the same place today.
Quote from: Mike Cl on March 12, 2017, 10:59:29 AMNow I have come to the conclusion that there is not god.
Quote from: SGOS on March 12, 2017, 12:19:39 PMI'm much the same way, I've come to the same conclusion, but not from evidence. It's more like the lack of evidence. However, the old adage says, "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence," and I get that, but it can't be written off so easily. God could be hiding, as indeed the lack of evidence would suggest, but maybe that's all that it is. He is simply hiding, and leaving no evidence or footprints behind (much like a unicorn). In truth, that was always part of the problem for me. A perfect being could hide perfectly, so why should I expect to find evidence if he didn't want to be found?But there is a rub. Supposedly, he wants to be worshiped and loved. It would make no sense to hide. He might have reasons for this. While it isn't illogical for him to hide, it's kind of nuts, actually quite nuts, like "way out there" nuts. At least for the Christian god, so I did dabble in entertaining other gods, gods of my own creation that operated totally illogically, but there were too many to consider, and the other more fashionable gods of the current millennium are just as equally nuts. So while I can't prove anything, I'm quite sure there is no god, and I'd bet my soul (if I even have one) on that.And what if I'm wrong? Well, the universe works in such a way that it is exactly the kind of universe I would expect without a god. Therefore, a god, if he did exist, is too inconsequential to matter, and I can see no evidence that he rewards or punishes living things depending on whether they guessed right about his existence or not.So yeah, I believe there is no god, but ask me for proof? Nope, can't do it. However, I can offer evidence, but it's only evidence much like a lawyer would offer in court. It doesn't prove anything, but it may get you to render an opinion on the matter, and you could use the evidence to justify your opinion, but it's not proof.
Quote from: Mike Cl on March 12, 2017, 01:11:48 PM100% agree. Well, almost 100%. I guess I go one more step in the no-god direction. It seems to me that lack of evidence is evidence when it is in the extreme. Jesus is an example. There is a total lack of citations for him by 1st. cent. writers and historians. Its not like only a couple mention him, or one--it is none, zippo, nadda, not a one! That is not strange, it is beyond comprehension. There is more 'evidence' for bigfoot/yeti then there is for Jesus. So, when the lack of evidence is so loud, I regard it as evidence that at least borders on proof. The same for god, only more so. A god by any definition that wants to be worshiped cannot simply disappear or never appear and be factual. This is the stuff of myth and fiction. Again, in this instance, the total lack of evidence is at the very least strong evidence if not proof of the non-existence of god(s). I regard nonbelief as the default thinking of humankind. Believers bear the responsibility of proving that default wrong. Jesus was not and god never was.
Quote from: Solomon Zorn on March 12, 2017, 03:09:23 PMThere is no proof that God does not exist? Irrelevant. I have no obligation to seek any.
Quote from: Solomon Zorn on March 12, 2017, 03:09:23 PMI would never refer to myself as "agnostic." The colloquial use of "agnostic," indicates you are undecided, and for a lot of Christians, that sounds like a perfect opportunity to "witness" to you, about their beliefs, to try and help you decide.
Quote from: SGOS on March 12, 2017, 04:23:39 PMI'm at that point now. I wasn't years ago when societal pressures were strong enough (on me) to begin a quest. After years of futility, I feel no obligation to seek further. Was I making a mountain out of a mole hill? In retrospect, yes. It didn't seem that way at the time. I could have saved a lot of time that would have been better devoted to other ways of improving my life, and now I realize I should have done that. But we learn at different speeds, often dictated by training early on.
Quote from: Mike Cl on March 12, 2017, 08:23:39 PMI have learned that bemoaning all that wasted time and energy, you should accept it for what it was--necessary for your own peace of mind. If you had not tackled the question in your own way, you may well be wondering now if you'd missed something. Now it is settled. That's how I view the periods of searching in my life.
Quote from: SGOS on March 13, 2017, 02:58:42 AMYou're right, and wouldn't describe it as regret. Sure my energies could have been directed elsewhere, or wasted, or whatever. But the important thing, as you point out, is that the matter was settled, with the result being peace of mind today. Can't disregard that. It's not a small thing.
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on March 13, 2017, 12:02:23 PMActually I lied, I'm not an atheist. I'm something far more terrifying: a human with critical thinking skills.