'There Is No God', or 'I Believe There Is No God'?

[aitm]

The ancient gods were dismissed with a general commonality among early christian historians as mythological, thus the label of mythological has been forcibly stamped on them today and we are quick to accept that "fact" as fact simply because we forget that the historians were christians who did the labeling. Were we to demand as much "proof" from those "authorities" today, we could perhaps give more credence to our general dismissal of all gods.

[widdershins]

Yes, many people don't ever stop to think that nobody actually ever "proved" Zeus never existed.  It's just commonly accepted.  It is considered "fact" only because there's nobody left around who cares to disagree with it.

[Baruch]

Yes, many people don't ever stop to think that nobody actually ever "proved" Zeus never existed.  It's just commonly accepted.  It is considered "fact" only because there's nobody left around who cares to disagree with it.

That is the status of most facts, and old arguments, here in the Matrix.  We don't even know what we used to know.  There are neo-pagans in Greece and other places, bringing back the old gods.  I say more power to them.  Santa Muerta ... a female death angel recently popular in Mexican worship, is clearly a paganism hiding under the Christian dogma (as much local Catholicsm since the beginning) ... she most resembles the old Aztec god, Tezcatlipoca.  This is not a good polytheism ;-(

[alexxmedeiros]

I wish to argue that the former is correct.  Well, both are, but there is sometimes some blowback on the flat statement "There is no god" because someone inevitably says, "You can't prove that!"

True enough.

Of course, proving there isn't a god isn't my problem -- the onus is on the believers to prove there is since it's their assertion.

Moreso, I posit that one can legitimately make the claim that there is no god, on the simple basis that the god hypothesis has no empirical support.

By analogy, I am not expected to say that I "believe" there is no phlogiston, or luminiferous aether, or caloric.  These are deprecated theories, long since superseded by better explanations of phenomena, and while there is an infinitesimal chance that some observation might lend them some support, no one expects me to be agnostic about them.

I argue that the same applies to the god hypothesis.  It is an ancient theory of how the universe works, long since obsoleted by better observations and better evidence, and I should not be expected to pay it even lip service anymore.  If evidence turns up, we'll contend with it then, but after ten thousand years or more of human observation, not one single solitary concrete and incontrovertible shred of evidence has appeared.

As such, I shouldn't need to 'believe' there is no god any more than I should have to 'believe' there is no Planet Vulcan between Mercury and the Sun or that the Earth isn't the center of the universe.  I can legitimately say, pending an actual offer of evidence, that there is no reason to accept the hypothesis in the first place -- to wit, there is no god.

Thoughts?

My first question for you is, could you be wrong about everything you claim to know?


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[Mike Cl]

My first question for you is, could you be wrong about everything you claim to know?


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And that would be my first question for you.

[alexxmedeiros]

And that would be my first question for you.

I could be wrong about a lot of things I claim to know, but not ALL of them for example: I know for certain that the Christian God, the only God, is true and real.

But I asked you the question. Please answer.


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[Mike Cl]

I could be wrong about a lot of things I claim to know, but not ALL of them for example: I know for certain that the Christian God, the only God, is true and real.

But I asked you the question. Please answer.


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That's all you do, is ask questions.  Your turn to answer some.  Why are you certain that your god exists?

[alexxmedeiros]

That's all you do, is ask questions.  Your turn to answer some.  Why are you certain that your god exists?

The same reason that you are!

He has revealed it to us that we may know for certain.


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[Blackleaf]

The same reason that you are!

He has revealed it to us that we may know for certain.


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Oh, that explains the estimated 4,200 religions that exist in the world. Wait.

[alexxmedeiros]

Oh, that explains the estimated 4,200 religions that exist in the world. Wait.

Idolatry is popular (:


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[Blackleaf]

Idolatry is popular (:


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Good job missing the point. If God had really revealed himself in a way that is so obvious, there would not be so many religions. Why make gods up when you already know that Yahweh is the one true god? Unless you're really stupid enough to think that Muslims do not believe in their religion as honestly as you believe in yours.

[Mike Cl]

The same reason that you are!

He has revealed it to us that we may know for certain.


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How did he reveal it to you??

[alexxmedeiros]

How did he reveal it to you??

No idea.

I don't know how he made a cow either but I know he made it.

He has revealed to everyone enough information to know a. That he exists and b. We are accountable to him and have all failed to match His Glory.


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[Hijiri Byakuren]

Idolatry is popular (:


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One man's idolatry is another man's revealed truth.

[alexxmedeiros]

Good job missing the point. If God had really revealed himself in a way that is so obvious, there would not be so many religions. Why make gods up when you already know that Yahweh is the one true god? Unless you're really stupid enough to think that Muslims do not believe in their religion as honestly as you believe in yours.

No the reason that there are so many other religions and atheists and agnostics is not because God hasn't revealed himself but because everyone suppresses the truth in unrighteousness.

Some do it religiously, others with denial, some with substance abuse... etc.


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