what would be an actually good reason to believe in a god.

[Baruch]

So, if god does not create new material where does new material come from?

If there are no gods, then given the Bible exists, it wasn't created by any gods.  However it was made by people.  If people are demigods ... then at least in that sense it was made by gods.  Gotta get away from monotheism to see that.  For a pagan, anything extraordinary (judgement required) was considered made by some god or other.  My standards are lower than theirs ;-)

[Ananta Shesha]

The discrepancies came after I freed myself from my ~24 years of brainwashing. Before then, I was a kid who was really curious about God and spiritual things. At around age 18, I devoted my life to serving God. I did so not out of obligation, but because I wanted to please God. I prayed every day, I volunteered in several ministries, but God remained silent. He didn't respond to my prayers, he didn't help when my problems grew worse and worse, including my depression. If anything, it seemed like he was trying to drive me away. Eventually, I decided that if God was going to treat me like shit, I was not going to worship him.

I can see how that would be off-putting.  Imagine myself in that situation I would certainly have to reassess my expectations of God.  Many of those expectations are given to us by others. It's usually when I stop pushing on the door so hard that it opens...inwardly.

[Ananta Shesha]

So, if god does not create new material where does new material come from?

No new matter needs to be created. What is created is the expansion of organized space within that material. This creates time and individual forms.

Why is nothing the assumed default state?

[Sorginak]

If there are no gods, then given the Bible exists, it wasn't created by any gods.  However it was made by people.  If people are demigods ... then at least in that sense it was made by gods.  Gotta get away from monotheism to see that.  For a pagan, anything extraordinary (judgement required) was considered made by some god or other.  My standards are lower than theirs ;-)

People are not demigods. People are just people, and people need to stop using the term god in reference to just anything.

People can create anything with their minds, and that is the only reason god is a concept.  Yet, god remains a concept rather than a reality.

God is merely the concept of a creative mind.  Nothing more.

[Baruch]

People are not demigods. People are just people, and people need to stop using the term god in reference to just anything.

People can create anything with their minds, and that is the only reason god is a concept.  Yet, god remains a concept rather than a reality.

God is merely the concept of a creative mind.  Nothing more.

But you look in the mirror and see?  I see Odysseus ... maybe not Heracles, but a demigod for sure.  If you are an ape, don't refer to yourself as people.

[Mike Cl]

If there are no gods, then given the Bible exists, it wasn't created by any gods.  However it was made by people.  If people are demigods ... then at least in that sense it was made by gods.  Gotta get away from monotheism to see that.  For a pagan, anything extraordinary (judgement required) was considered made by some god or other.  My standards are lower than theirs ;-)

The bible nor anything else was made by gods.  Why do I need to get away from monotheism?  I'm not near it.  I don't subscribe to any theism--and everybody needs to get away from theism in all of its forms, including monotheism.  All are fiction. 

[SGOS]

Hebrews 11:1 it says, now faith is..., the evidence of things not seen.

Holy shit!  You don't need a primer in logical fallacies to see the bullshit in that.

[Baruch]

The bible nor anything else was made by gods.  Why do I need to get away from monotheism?  I'm not near it.  I don't subscribe to any theism--and everybody needs to get away from theism in all of its forms, including monotheism.  All are fiction.

But aren't you a monist (there is one cause, which isn't a G-d)?  Monism, dualism and pluralism in metaphysics ... applies to both theism and atheism.  And yes, stories and books are made by people, not by apes ... and so we are demigods, not demiapes.  The emphasis on how humans "descended" from apes, is part of a social Darwinist and misanthropic POV.  Not that hating human beings isn't justified, or that I wouldn't slit someone's throat if necessary in the competition for survival.

[Baruch]

Holy shit!  You don't need a primer in logical fallacies to see the bullshit in that.

It is actually wrong, not just illogical.  I only trust (have faith in) what I can see.  Any used Bible salesman can try to fool you with an argument about a reality that you can't presently see.  But on the other hand .. do I have faith that you exist ... because your posts are ... evidence of an unseen person?  Maybe there is a ghost in my machine!

[Mike Cl]

But aren't you a monist (there is one cause, which isn't a G-d)?  Monism, dualism and pluralism in metaphysics ... applies to both theism and atheism.  And yes, stories and books are made by people, not by apes ... and so we are demigods, not demiapes.  The emphasis on how humans "descended" from apes, is part of a social Darwinist and misanthropic POV.  Not that hating human beings isn't justified, or that I wouldn't slit someone's throat if necessary in the competition for survival.

I do not know how the universe became or began.  There very well could be several reasons or causes all coming together at one point--or not.  I know that god(s) are fiction--other than that, I don't make any claims.  And no, we are not 'demigods'--we are humans and cannot have descended from a god(s) since god(s) are fiction.  However, we (humans) have descended from apes and we should take that to heart, especially as a group.  Some of the ape social activities help the group and some hurt the group.  By studying those activities we can learn as a species which activities we should keep and which we should discard.  God has nothing to do with it and all that we learn from god-like behavior is negative activities that will lead our species to ruin if we keep claiming god is good and science is of the devil.   

[Sorginak]

In many ways, apes are more human than we are. 

[Baruch]

In many ways, apes are more human than we are.

Their poo is less smelly?  I can see your avatar should be animal, like aitm.  Misanthropy is pretty common among anthropes.

[Baruch]

I do not know how the universe became or began.  There very well could be several reasons or causes all coming together at one point--or not.  I know that god(s) are fiction--other than that, I don't make any claims.  And no, we are not 'demigods'--we are humans and cannot have descended from a god(s) since god(s) are fiction.  However, we (humans) have descended from apes and we should take that to heart, especially as a group.  Some of the ape social activities help the group and some hurt the group.  By studying those activities we can learn as a species which activities we should keep and which we should discard.  God has nothing to do with it and all that we learn from god-like behavior is negative activities that will lead our species to ruin if we keep claiming god is good and science is of the devil.

Evolution is scientific.  But irrelevant to me.  It really doesn't matter what pre-humans the humans descend from.  That has been used by evil men, to justify much evil.  Not that people were ever evil before Darwin ;-(  Study the ants or the chimps ... nothing wrong with that.  Just don't equate them to us or to each other.  They have similarities, but they aren't the same.  I don't think I can learn much from other species ... given that human behavior is irrational to begin with.  But yes, learn from your dog ... that if you find a master, you might get shelter, food and a belly scratching ;-)

[Mike Cl]

Evolution is scientific.  But irrelevant to me.  It really doesn't matter what pre-humans the humans descend from.  That has been used by evil men, to justify much evil.  Not that people were ever evil before Darwin ;-(  Study the ants or the chimps ... nothing wrong with that.  Just don't equate them to us or to each other.  They have similarities, but they aren't the same.  I don't think I can learn much from other species ... given that human behavior is irrational to begin with.  But yes, learn from your dog ... that if you find a master, you might get shelter, food and a belly scratching ;-)

Very interesting.  You suggest we study animals--animals we can see, hear, feel, touch, eat; experience in the real world here and now.  But don't put any store in what we find, for they are not us.  Yet you have spent and do spend much time studying a fiction (your gods) and then equate that fiction to us.  I find that as totally backward.  Discard what we can test--rely on the unknowable (for it is a fiction).  That makes little sense--but is interesting.  And very theistic.

[Baruch]

Very interesting.  You suggest we study animals--animals we can see, hear, feel, touch, eat; experience in the real world here and now.  But don't put any store in what we find, for they are not us.  Yet you have spent and do spend much time studying a fiction (your gods) and then equate that fiction to us.  I find that as totally backward.  Discard what we can test--rely on the unknowable (for it is a fiction).  That makes little sense--but is interesting.  And very theistic.

Fiction is written by humans, not by dogs.  Studying fiction is studying how people see themselves ... and that is all fiction.  So it is part of anthropology.  Sorry, test humans?  If you have two people, you get three opinions ... analyze that if you please.  You think that anthropology (sociology and psychology) is a photo-science.  It isn't, it is art.  Physics etc are arts also ... false dichotomy to separate science from art ... nerd from geek.  Human poetry and doggerel all the way down.