Senate approves draft for women as well as men

[stromboli]

Yes indeed, times they are a changin'. A pregnant woman can fly a drone as well as a game playing kid fresh out of high school. Packing a weapon into combat should be on the way out, though in the real world there will always be a need for it. Used to be something like 10% of military were actual warfighters. I don't know the number now.

Besides being in the military I also worked on an air base for 3 decades. Lots of women in uniform, worked with many of them. There is a whole lot of support necessary for the actual combatants. The antiquated idea that women are not capable of doing men's jobs should be passe' by now. The military has had some decades to figure shit out, I'm sure they can manage to incorporate female draftees- should the need arise- as well as male.

[Baruch]

Hopefully, there will be an exemption for mothers!

No, draft the children and babies too.  We must have equality, Procrustean style!  Are you against child labor?  Otherwise give exemption to fathers also.  Oh ... we used to have that ... war is only for young men too young to be married or be a parent.  Soldiers who think of home make bad soldiers.

[Baruch]

Yes indeed, times they are a changin'. A pregnant woman can fly a drone as well as a game playing kid fresh out of high school. Packing a weapon into combat should be on the way out, though in the real world there will always be a need for it. Used to be something like 10% of military were actual warfighters. I don't know the number now.

Besides being in the military I also worked on an air base for 3 decades. Lots of women in uniform, worked with many of them. There is a whole lot of support necessary for the actual combatants. The antiquated idea that women are not capable of doing men's jobs should be passe' by now. The military has had some decades to figure shit out, I'm sure they can manage to incorporate female draftees- should the need arise- as well as male.

Sorry, but if you are not the tip of the spear, you aren't a soldier, you are a uniformed non-combatant.

[stromboli]

Sorry, but if you are not the tip of the spear, you aren't a soldier, you are a uniformed non-combatant.

I've been at the tip of the spear and worked with uniformed non combatants. The GI benefits are the same for both.

[Mermaid]

It bugged the shit out of me when I had to check the box "I am female" on the Selective Service registration form exemption. Don't get me wrong, I had no interest in registering for anything military, but it's such a STUPID reason for an exemption.

[Baruch]

If the feminists really want to be men, they can take testosterone supplements ... and do corrective surgery.  War is a male activity, like breast feeding is a female activity.  And yes, you can make a woman out of a man, but that doesn't make it any less crazy than the reverse.  Both genders are psycho, but not the same kind of psycho.  Not that I am going to tell anyone, of any gender, that they can't do something if they try hard enough.  But that doesn't mean I think they are sane.

I have worked with the military for nearly 30 years ... I enjoy our women in uniform, I even know one who went thru Marine OCS.  But she should have been born a man.  But aside from the MPs ... none of the people I work with are soldiers.  No matter what their benefit package.

[Baruch]

It bugged the shit out of me when I had to check the box "I am female" on the Selective Service registration form exemption. Don't get me wrong, I had no interest in registering for anything military, but it's such a STUPID reason for an exemption.

I happen to agree.  If they not only draft carded both genders, but actually drafted everyone at 18 ... we would have fewer wars.  You need to hit every family, particularly the elite families, right in the gonads.

[marom1963]

There isn't one for fathers.

Do you mean an exemption for people caring for dependents in general? Because there already is one for voluntary service. Single parents or people with certain dependents are ineligible to join the military.

How many of today's fathers even stick around? Women are nearly always the ones stuck w/the babies. So, yeah, I guess I mean for single parents - but, really, single mothers, let's be real about it.

[Baruch]

How many of today's fathers even stick around? Women are nearly always the ones stuck w/the babies. So, yeah, I guess I mean for single parents - but, really, single mothers, let's be real about it.

Put all the children and babies in BDUs ... like Sarge's little dog in that cartoon.  You know America wants to be a military dictatorship ... of Amazons and wimpy men.

[TomFoolery]

How many of today's fathers even stick around? Women are nearly always the ones stuck w/the babies. So, yeah, I guess I mean for single parents - but, really, single mothers, let's be real about it.

Well, believe it or not, it's also not just babies. My old platoon sergeant was given a compassionate reassignment to take care of his mother who had suffered a serious stroke. She became his legal dependent as far as military benefits were concerned, and he eventually left the service to take care of her.

So it's not just women, and it's not just babies. While women do tend to disproportionally bear the brunt of caring for families, just throwing out the idea that "mommies" need to be exempt from this shows a significant misunderstanding of the nuances of both having a life and serving in the military.

Besides, registering for the draft is just that. Registering. It doesn't mean you'll be drafted.

Men with disabilities who would NEVER be selected for service still have to register.

[Mermaid]

If the feminists really want to be men, they can take testosterone supplements ... and do corrective surgery.  War is a male activity, like breast feeding is a female activity.  And yes, you can make a woman out of a man, but that doesn't make it any less crazy than the reverse.  Both genders are psycho, but not the same kind of psycho.  Not that I am going to tell anyone, of any gender, that they can't do something if they try hard enough.  But that doesn't mean I think they are sane.

I have worked with the military for nearly 30 years ... I enjoy our women in uniform, I even know one who went thru Marine OCS.  But she should have been born a man.  But aside from the MPs ... none of the people I work with are soldiers.  No matter what their benefit package.

What the fuck did I just read?

[Hydra009]

Here's one from the left:

Some feminists are hailing it as a boon toward their cause, calling America’s history of the all-male draft discriminatory and the addition of women to selective service a huge leap for equality.

But being a feminist doesn't have to mean standing up for sending our daughters to war.

I am a feminist, and I do not support including women in selective service.

When you are not included in something that no one wants to do â€" in this case, going off to war â€" it’s not discrimination; it’s a privilege. Some say women should give up that privilege in the name of equality between men and women. But here’s the thing about equality: Men and women are not equal.

That’s right â€" I’m a feminist, I am a mother of two girls, and I am saying that men and women are not equal.

In the event of a draft, sending women off to war does not present an equal opportunity to women by nature of the fact that women are physically different from men. As much as we may work to try to level the playing field between men and women, the physical differences between us as created by nature make us inherently unequal and cannot be universally overcome.

Like the conservative one, this one also makes the emotional appeal of "don't take my daughters", which kinda pulls at my ol' heartstrings despite the fact that no one's been drafted for decades.  Yet, a man saying "don't take my sons" doesn't have nearly the same emotional appeal.  Weird.

She argues that draft exemption is a female privilege that women shouldn't give up, which seems like a strange argument.  Aren't privileges bad?  Isn't the whole point of feminism to level the playing field by eliminating sex-based privilege?

Even stranger, a feminist of all people argues that men and women aren't equal - presumably, she only means in physical terms - and makes a similar argument as her conservative counterpart - women's biology makes them unsuitable for military service.

For all the political differences there surely are between the conservative anti-feminist organization and this feminist, they find a surprising common ground on this issue and echo each other's sentiments.  I also find it interesting that both are in theory proponents of equality, yet in actuality, that seems rather doubtful.

[drunkenshoe]

So if i had a vagina and made this point it would be ok? True colors.

Obviously, it was just an attempt of poking fun at you.

But getting 'you need a vagina to make that comment' from a point made of 'you need to be a drafted veteran to make that comment' is pretty out of the field. Esp. considering they are two opposite things in this context. That's actually the point.

Whoever is in your head starting to talk when you read my posts, she is not me.

[drunkenshoe]

If the feminists really want to be men, they can take testosterone supplements ... and do corrective surgery.  War is a male activity, like breast feeding is a female activity.  And yes, you can make a woman out of a man, but that doesn't make it any less crazy than the reverse.  Both genders are psycho, but not the same kind of psycho.  Not that I am going to tell anyone, of any gender, that they can't do something if they try hard enough.  But that doesn't mean I think they are sane.

I have worked with the military for nearly 30 years ... I enjoy our women in uniform, I even know one who went thru Marine OCS.  But she should have been born a man.  But aside from the MPs ... none of the people I work with are soldiers.  No matter what their benefit package.

You are talking out of your ass.

[drunkenshoe]

Hydra's link:

Some feminists are hailing it as a boon toward their cause, calling America’s history of the all-male draft discriminatory and the addition of women to selective service a huge leap for equality.

But being a feminist doesn't have to mean standing up for sending our daughters to war.

I am a feminist, and I do not support including women in selective service.

When you are not included in something that no one wants to do â€" in this case, going off to war â€" it’s not discrimination; it’s a privilege. Some say women should give up that privilege in the name of equality between men and women. But here’s the thing about equality: Men and women are not equal.

That’s right â€" I’m a feminist, I am a mother of two girls, and I am saying that men and women are not equal.

In the event of a draft, sending women off to war does not present an equal opportunity to women by nature of the fact that women are physically different from men. As much as we may work to try to level the playing field between men and women, the physical differences between us as created by nature make us inherently unequal and cannot be universally overcome.

Send that woman to over here please.

Recep Tayyip Erdoğan: ‘women not equal to men’

Turkish president also accuses feminists of not understanding special status attributed to mothers by Islam

The Turkish president, Recep Tayyip ErdoÄŸan, has been accused of blatant sexism after declaring that women are not equal to men and claiming feminists in Turkey reject the idea of motherhood.

The devoutly Muslim president said biological differences meant women and men could not serve the same functions, adding that manual work was unsuitable for the “delicate nature” of women.

His comments ignited a firestorm of controversy on Twitter and one well-known female TV news anchor even took the unusual step of condemning the remarks during a bulletin.

“Our religion [Islam] has defined a position for women: motherhood,” Erdoğan said at a summit in Istanbul on justice for women, speaking to an audience including his own daughter Sumeyye.

“Some people can understand this, while others can’t. You cannot explain this to feminists because they don’t accept the concept of motherhood.”

He recalled: “I would kiss my mother’s feet because they smelled of paradise. She would glance coyly and cry sometimes.

“Motherhood is something else,” he said, claiming that it should be a woman’s priority because Islam exalts women as mothers.

He went on to say that women and men could not be treated equally “because it goes against the laws of nature”.

“Their characters, habits and physiques are different … You cannot place a mother breastfeeding her baby on an equal footing with men.

“You cannot make women work in the same jobs as men do, as in communist regimes. You cannot give them a shovel and tell them to do their work. This is against their delicate nature.”

ErdoÄŸan was apparently referring to the practice during and after the second world war for women in communist states such as the USSR to do heavy manual work in factories or in roles such as tram drivers.

He complained that in previous decades in Turkey women in Anatolian villages had done the back-breaking work while their menfolk idled away the time.