Trump; "Good guy with gun woulda stopped shooting." ...Except They Couldn't

[aitm]

What these nuts also ignore, the more obvious, remove a "gunman" from the scenario, now you have 250 armed people in a alcohol infused party, especially given how fucking psycho some of them queens can get and I can pretty much suggest you'll have an all out arm-a-fucking-geddon within a week. Any bar, where casual encounters can turn nasty in a split second and now you want to arm them all? Hell-fucking-yeah.

We have a ready solution for population control….in this country

[Gawdzilla Sama]

And how many of those 250 people would know that the original gunner is down and there's nobody left to shoot? And this leads me to a question gunners can't seem to answer elsewhere:

Why should WE trust YOUR judgment in these situations? Why should we believe that you are rational, trained, and reliable when we've never met you?

Bonus question: If you are carrying a gun how do you keep a bad guy from taking it from you? He could walk up behind you and double taps you, then takes your gun and proceeds to shoot fifteen first graders. Would you feel bad about this or would you still be dead?

[SGOS]

There is one thing that would have absolutely prevented the attack...................his wife narcing on his dumb ass.  She knew what he was planning, and did nothing.  No different than if she had helped pull the trigger.  If and when all the facts come out................I'll predict one or more of his family i.e. Father, Mother etc) knew it was coming.  Sound like San Bernadino?  Where the neighbor watched for weeks, and said nothing; while suspicious activity took place in the killers garage. 

I can't help wondering about that same thing.  Of course there is no end to the rationalizations as well as actual reasons people do nothing in a case like this.  I haven't gotten enough clues from his ex-wife yet.  She may be jumping on issue after the fact as a way of heaping resentment on an ex, or just as likely, it could be that she didn't mention anything about it until she knew he was dead for fear of him harming or killing her.  His parents may have just wanted to protect their son from police involvement hopelessly clinging to the notion that he wasn't really so bad.  Some parents have a hard time seeing the faults in their own.  In both cases, wife and parents, I'm skeptical about what they are saying.

The interviews with friends and neighbors don't tell us much.  Some say he was strange and a bit off.  Others saw a nice guy.  In addition to being contradictory, how much can we really expect from neighbors?  Friends?  How good of friends?

The interviews with co-workers, people he associated with on a daily basis, tell us that he was giving off enough clues for coworkers to report him to the FBI.  This in itself is highly alarming to me, but the FBI decided he was not a threat.  Of course the FBI doesn't always get things right.  They are just people.  But I still want them to get it right, so I tend to see their dismissal of the killer as a critical weak link in the prevention of this crime.

I believe we are living in different times than pre 9-11.  Islamic terrorism is now a threat in this country, whereas before it was more bothersome to just "other" countries.  We are still adjusting to it, learning to accept it.  How big a threat is it?  Not big, I don't think.  Individual chances of survival haven't changed but a mere fraction of a percent.  Mostly we have to get used to hearing about it, and try to avoid lashing out at all Muslims, but there is most certainly a new element in American culture.  It's a new negative to add to the rest of our problems.  New crazies to add to our already existent crazies.

I don't think we are at a point to get as security conscious as the Israelis.  The threat isn't that bad yet.  Well for me, anyway, but others may feel more or less threatened than I do.  I doubt we will solve the problem, but I think we will adjust to it.

[widdershins]

Seriously....................to categorically state guns at the night club would have, or would not have helped or hurt is bootless theorizing at best.  We'll never know.

But we DO know that a "good guy with a gun" isn't likely to stop a "bad guy with a gun" until AFTER the bad guy pulls his gun, likely only after he starts shooting.

But we actually can state more than that because there WERE other guns at the club.  Armed security guards and an armed, off-duty police officer were there.  So while we can't state that "it would have" or "it would not have" helped, we CAN state that "it DID NOT help".

[widdershins]

Trump's response to the Orlando massacre convinced my husband not to vote for Trump.

LOL, this response took my brain back to the 1980s for a second.  I read it and my brain said, "I thought that was a guy."  Then I looked at the picture to see why I though that and my brain said, "That IS a guy!"  There was a second more of utter confusion while my brain tried to understand why a guy would be claiming to have a husband before I had the, "Oh yeah" moment when my brain returned to the present and was once again capable of processing concepts more complex than simple binary gender.  But for a moment I completely forgot that "gay" was a thing and it was confusing as hell.

[Hakurei Reimu]

It'll take a while for everyone to stop having those moments. Like a generation. :D

[Gawdzilla Sama]

It'll take a while for everyone to stop having those moments. Like a generation. :D

Meh, I lived in a house with a woman who had two husbands and a girl friend. They all slept in the same bed. After that I was unimpressed with gender issues.

[baronvonrort]

•The argument that having more guns will prevent tragedies is statistically a bold-faced lie.

In 1996 after our gun laws Australia had just over 850,000 firearm licensed issued, in 2016 this has grown to just over 1.9 million firearm license holders.

In 1996 we had just over 3 million registered firearms, in 2016 this has grown to over 5 million registered firearms.

More legally owned guns in Australia has resulted in less tragedies, an inconvenient truth for the bullshitting gun grabbers.

I thought a good guy with a gun shot the Orlando offender, one cop took a bullet in his helmet.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I thought a good guy with a gun shot the Orlando offender, one cop took a bullet in his helmet.

The line refers to a civilian who cowboys the situation. "The good guy with the gun shot the bad guy with the gun before the cops could arrive and saved dozens of people."

Problem with that scenario is that it's mostly fantasy. First off, if everybody had guns lots of them would come out and you'd not know for sure who the bad guy was. Secondly, just having a gun doesn't make a person reliable in a combat situation. Thirdly, if eight people whip out guns we have nine people with guns. One or more of the "good guys" may not know who the other good guys are, allowing for "blue on blue" events. Fourth, everyone in the crowd is supposed to believe that the "good guys with guns" are actually competent to handle them and have the judgment to do so appropriately.

What could possibly go wrong?

[baronvonrort]

The line refers to a civilian who cowboys the situation. "The good guy with the gun shot the bad guy with the gun before the cops could arrive and saved dozens of people."

Problem with that scenario is that it's mostly fantasy.

What could possibly go wrong?

Is this what the gun grabbers claim is a fantasy situation?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwrgvqlc8DA

[Baruch]

He shot at them not only at first, but while they were fleeing.  Usually that is illegal.  I also thought it strange, that will all the shots, none of the glass was shot out ... was he shooting blanks?

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Is this what the gun grabbers claim is a fantasy situation?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwrgvqlc8DA

With ~312,000,000 guns in this country you'd think we are already safe from the bad guys. But DGUs* are rare enough that we have to hunt for them.


*Defensive gun use.

[stromboli]

There are a lot countries with guns and few people get killed. You can regulate firearms and restrict sales of assault rifles and still happily meet any 2nd amendment criteria. The idea of an AR15 or AK-47 as a hunting weapon is silly. Most states specify a five round limit to magazine capacity. A bolt action rifle with a scope is a hunting weapon, not a mass murder weapon.

I owned an AR15. Killed a lot of cans with it and then sold it. You can't realistically hunt with that and even less so with an AK-47.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

There are a lot countries with guns and few people get killed. You can regulate firearms and restrict sales of assault rifles and still happily meet any 2nd amendment criteria. The idea of an AR15 or AK-47 as a hunting weapon is silly. Most states specify a five round limit to magazine capacity. A bolt action rifle with a scope is a hunting weapon, not a mass murder weapon.

I owned an AR15. Killed a lot of cans with it and then sold it. You can't realistically hunt with that and even less so with an AK-47.

AKs are the MiG-15s of the gun world. (The MiG was described as a "flying tractor".) They meant to be used by barely literal people (if that) who would recognize a phillip's head screw.

[Hydra009]

Is this what the gun grabbers claim is a fantasy situation?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwrgvqlc8DA