Has the atheist community just lost it's fucking mind?

[Hydra009]

1/4 of 1 percent of the World's population has a problem w/gender identity and the other 99+3/4% percent of the World's population is supposed to throw away their gender identities to make this 1/4 of 1 percent happy

Wow.  That sounds pretty bad.  And I've been using the bathroom pretty regularly (almost daily) without realizing that alarming "fact" that us cis scum have to throw away our gender identities at the door.  Is there a special trash can or something where I'm supposed to discard my maleness in the men's bathroom?

[marom1963]

Wow.  That sounds pretty bad.  And I've been using the bathroom pretty regularly (almost daily) without realizing that alarming "fact" that us cis scum have to throw away our gender identities at the door.  Is there a special trash can or something where I'm supposed to discard my maleness in the men's bathroom?

My comments were w/in a context. The context is quite clear - you're not going to convince the World to toss gender specific bathrooms - or the idea of genders based on birth, for that matter. Doesn't matter how much you want it - it isn't going to happen any time soon.

[Hydra009]

My comments were w/in a context. The context is quite clear - you're not going to convince the World to toss gender specific bathrooms - or the idea of genders based on birth, for that matter. Doesn't matter how much you want it - it isn't going to happen any time soon.

Hey look, it's that thing you say couldn't happen anytime soon.  The pic is from 2013, btw.

[marom1963]

Hey look, it's that thing you say couldn't happen anytime soon.  The pic is from 2013, btw.

I didn't say that that couldn't happen. What I said was that men and women were not going to give up their gender identities or share their bathrooms w/the opposite gender. I'm sure that that bathroom is for a single occupant at a time - not for multiple use.To pretend that it is is - dishonest. (Sometimes there are such bathrooms in gay bars, I must admit, but, then some gay people go out of their way to be "inclusive" - and a lot of their patrons simply don't use the bathroom when in those bars.)

[Munch]

When I'm travelling by train up to scotland, the toilets on the train are almost always gender neutral.

[marom1963]

When I'm travelling by train up to scotland, the toilets on the train are almost always gender neutral.

Gender neutral bathrooms have been around for a long time - but they only ever allow for a single occupant at a time, not for multiple occupants. Multiple occupant bathrooms are always gender specific. In my building, the bathrooms are both single occupant - and gender specific! I only ever use the ones labeled "Men."

[Hydra009]

What I said was that men and women were not going to give up their gender identities or share their bathrooms w/the opposite gender.

No one's proposing that you give up your gender identity.  What has been proposed is that Paul (born Paula) can take a dump in the stall next to you (which fyi, has informally been a thing for a long, long time).  That's what you numbskulls are up in arms about.

[marom1963]

No one's proposing that you give up your gender identity.  What has been proposed is that Paul (born Paula) can take a dump in the stall next to you (which fyi, has informally been a thing for a long, long time).  That's what you numbskulls are up in arms about.

If Paul (born Paula) presents as a male, I have no problem w/that - as I have indicated elsewhere in the thread. It was when I was told that people presenting as either gender but declaring themselves to be this or that gender got to use the bathroom of their choice that I had a problem. Someone presenting as a female but declaring "himself" to be a male does not belong in the male bathroom! And I don't want to hear any nonsense - you want to be a man, look and act like one!

[Hydra009]

Okay, so it's just an issue of passing.  If Paul can pass for male, everything's cool.  But if Paul doesn't look male enough for you, then there's a problem.  Presumably, he should use the women's room, where he probably wouldn't get a good reaction, either.  Looks like a good solution to me.

Timmy (born Timmy) looks pretty suspect, too.  Pretty androgynous-looking.  What's the policy here?  Examine driver's licenses?  Whip out penises and compare?

[marom1963]

Okay, so it's just an issue of passing.  If Paul can pass for male, everything's cool.  But if Paul doesn't look male enough for you, then there's a problem.  Presumably, he should use the women's room, where he probably wouldn't get a good reaction, either.  Looks like a good solution to me.

Timmy (born Timmy) looks pretty suspect, too.  Pretty androgynous-looking.  What's the policy here?  Examine driver's licenses?  Whip out penises and compare?

Seems like Paul's got a problem that I'm not interested in. Believe it or not, I'm not the one making such a big deal out of gender - Paul is. If gender matters so much to poor old Paul, then Paul needs to try harder to look like a man. Otherwise, let Paul stay Paula and use the women's room. As for Timmy, he'd better be pretty damned effeminate before I'd throw him out of the men's room - I mean, to the point where it's obvious that he doesn't want to be Timmy but Timothea.

[Hydra009]

Seems like Paul's got a problem that I'm not interested in.

Yes, the empathy gap seems obvious.  I've picked up on it before, but I haven't heard it so clearly stated until now.  My condolences.

Believe it or not, I'm not the one making such a big deal out of gender - Paul is. If gender matters so much to poor old Paul, then Paul needs to try harder to look like a man.

I don't believe it, actually.  This enforcement of gender norms seems to be something you're keenly interested in, even to the point of being the self-appointed Bathroom Sheriff.  And I have the GOP and their all-too-willing thralls to thank for this pointless and moronic bathroom crusade.

[marom1963]

Yes, the empathy gap seems obvious.  I've picked up on it before, but I haven't heard it so clearly stated until now.  My condolences.
I don't believe it, actually.  This enforcement of gender norms seems to be something you're keenly interested in, even to the point of being the self-appointed Bathroom Sheriff.  And I have the GOP and their all-too-willing thralls to thank for this pointless and moronic bathroom crusade.

Nonsense. The GOP didn't bring up the issue - just exploited it after it had been brought up by transgendered people. It's called politics. Politics is a dirty business. Shame on the transgendered people for being so naive. They should have known 1) that the GOP would exploit it and 2) that the general population would have the very reaction that the GOP wanted. Stupid not to know that.

[FaithIsFilth]

Otherwise, let Paul stay Paula and use the women's room.

So you've gone from they can't use the bathroom to now saying they can't even have a name change to a more masculine or feminine name? Holy crap. What the heck does looking like a man even mean?

I think you're right when you say that the US is not going to want to switch to only having intersex washrooms in the immediate future. Maybe it will make sense to have all intersex washrooms some time in the future, and if things go that way then that's fine and it will happen when it happens, but in the meantime, trans people need to be allowed to use the washroom they want to use. You don't overcome bigotry by giving in to the demands of the bigots. If their demands are met because people are worried about the bigots causing trouble and roughing trans people up, then the bigots have won. You don't give in to the demands of people who might cause physical harm to trans people, just like you don't ban people from drawing Mohammad because it might cause them to get shot up. If the intersex washroom thing happens, then people in favour of that need to be patient and let that happen when it happens. That is still likely a number of years off. The reality is that people that say they identify as women are going to be able to use the women's washroom. The problems that North Carolina has had because of their stance on this issue have made it clear that the people fighting against bio males being able to use the women's washroom are fighting a losing battle. They've already lost.

[marom1963]

So you've gone from they can't use the bathroom to now saying they can't even have a name change to a more masculine or feminine name? Holy crap. What the heck does looking like a man even mean?

I think you're right when you say that the US is not going to want to switch to only having intersex washrooms in the immediate future. Maybe it will make sense to have all intersex washrooms some time in the future, and if things go that way then that's fine and it will happen when it happens, but in the meantime, trans people need to be allowed to use the washroom they want to use. You don't overcome bigotry by giving in to the demands of the bigots. If their demands are met because people are worried about the bigots causing trouble and roughing trans people up, then the bigots have won. You don't give in to the demands of people who might cause physical harm to trans people, just like you don't ban people from drawing Mohammad because it might cause them to get shot up. If the intersex washroom thing happens, then people in favour of that need to be patient and let that happen when it happens. That is still likely a number of years off. The reality is that people that say they identify as women are going to be able to use the women's washroom. The problems that North Carolina has had because of their stance on this issue have made it clear that the people fighting against bio males being able to use the women's washroom are fighting a losing battle. They've already lost.

"I play on the team, but I should be the one member of the team that doesn't have to wear the team's uniform - because I'm me!"
You know damned well what a man looks like, don't give me that bullshit. If there were no difference whatever in what the sexes looked like, this issue could never have arisen.
You want to go in the men's room, wear men's clothes. I'll not make 98% uncomfortable, so that 2% can be comfortable - that's that and quite that. You don't want to wear men's clothes - or women's clothes if it's the other way around - fuck you! Go in the bathroom that matches your fucking appearance.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

When I was in the Navy I just pissed off the fantail.