"If Youre Liberal and You Think Hillary Clinton Is Corrupt and Untrustworthy..."

[gentle_dissident]

And also. I feel like continuing to bash Hillary makes our chances much higher for Trump to be elected.

[PickelledEggs]

Bashed/criticized... two different words with essentially the same meaning in this instance... pick whichever word woks for you.

There's still time.  The primaries are just now wrapping up.  In fact, trying to court Sanders supporters while the Sanders campaign is still ongoing might've been a tad presumptuous and off-putting.

I am a Sanders supporter, if I wasn't clear enough already.

I am also an optimist, but more than that, I'm a realist. I hoped he would win the democratic nomination, despite how he is not a democrat. Yes, it's the democrats that have changed in to something else, but the reality of what we are dealing with is, the democratic party we have, is the democratic party we have. We can glorify and reminisce over what the democratic party was, but what it was and what it is now, are two different things. We aren't dealing with a democratic party of the past, we are dealing with the democratic party that is very in-line with what Hillary Clinton is. Voting in a president that is different from what our current democratic party is, isn't going to change that. We still have to deal with the rest of congress. It's not like we can pretend the of congress away. We need to vote them out and vote in the people that matter. Voting in a president that is more in line with better solutions for our economy and environment is great and all, but he only makes up 1/3 of the system. There is 2 other thirds he would be fighting against.

Of course, most people only care about taking a part in our government every 4 years... To vote for 1 part of our 3 part system.

I hate to say it, but it's going to be Trump with the presidential election. I'm calling it right now. Bernie or bust-ers are going to write in his name in the general election, some of them will go to Jill Stein... causing the votes to split. And causing Trump to win. Just like how Bush won to Gore thanks to Nader. And why? because of pride. Because people are too prideful to vote for the lesser of evils, despite the fact that they have a better chance at winning with their party's nomination.
Time to start looking for out-of-country housing. Like I said, it's going to be Trump with the win this time around.

[gentle_dissident]

I'm pretty sure we'll wind up voting for Clinton because we'll have no other choice.

[PickelledEggs]

I'm pretty sure we'll wind up voting for Clinton because we'll have no other choice.

Don't count on everyone doing the same... I am voting Clinton, not because I like her, but because I dislike her less than I like Trump.

This election is like getting offered either only canned tuna or only canned sardines for dinner every year prior, but this year we had an option of a nice steak dinner instead... and then the steak was yanked away. Tuna is obviously slightly better than nasty sardines, but who wants another can of tuna when you were just offered a steak? It's a bummer, to say the least, but this election, other than the gone chance of Sanders as a nominee, is not much different from other elections. The issue of Sanders as a possible option is an issue though, because it will split the vote, causing Trump to win.
Some Sanders supporters will vote for Hillary. A lot will... but many will still vote for Sanders. And some will vote for Jill Stein. As much as I hate to think of it, I have to say it again. Trump WILL become president, even though the thought of that makes me want to vomit blood.

[Hydra009]

We aren't dealing with a democratic party of the past, we are dealing with the democratic party that is very in-line with what Hillary Clinton is.

Judging by the primaries, that's not entirely true.  The leadership perhaps, but not the rank-and-file.  And this disconnect, if unresolved, could really end up costing the dems down the road.

Voting in a president that is different from what our current democratic party is, isn't going to change that.

I'd love to hear how we change the party without changing its leadership.

I hate to say it, but it's going to be Trump with the presidential election.  I'm calling it right now.

I'd take that bet.  I predict a Clinton victory, though it'll be close.  She may look bad compared to Bernie, but she looks like a million bucks compared to Trump.

Bernie or bust-ers are going to write in his name in the general election, some of them will go to Jill Stein... causing the votes to split. And causing Trump to win.

If so, this would be the first election I remember where the losing candidate blamed the electorate rather than their own campaign.

[PickelledEggs]

I'd take that bet.  I predict a Clinton victory, though it'll be close.  She may look bad compared to Bernie, but she looks like a million bucks compared to Trump.

Yeah.. I mean I hope so, but I'm afraid I might not be as optimistic as you seem to be...

If so, this would be the first election I remember where the losing candidate blamed the electorate rather than their own campaign.

I'm not sure Gore blamed Nader, I don't remember enough of that election, but I do remember a lot of people blaming Nader for continuing to run, despite not having the nomination and splitting the votes on Gore. I still hear people blame Nader for that. I fear something very similar will happen if Sanders continues to run, even as an independent.

[gentle_dissident]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/09/politics/bernie-sanders-washington/

"I look forward to meeting with (Clinton) in the near future to see how we can work together to defeat Donald Trump and to create a government which represents all of us and not just the 1%," Sanders told reporters.

[gentle_dissident]

I don't remember enough of that election

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vnT4rr9wdY

[Baruch]

Gentle-dissident ...

Yes, group think and jingoism worked so well for Germany ;-(  Democrats and Republicans have both been lobotomized.

[Baruch]

I'm pretty sure we'll wind up voting for Clinton because we'll have no other choice.

That is the master plan, by the people who own both candidates.  I voted one last time, for the lesser evil, in 2012.  Not doing it again.  I know someone who got out of the US way back when, went to Sweden.  Now he is up to his armpits in ME refugees.  There is no escaping sadistic globalism, by definition .. unless you aren Elon Musk and can build a billionaire-only base on Mars.

I don't fear either candidate (assuming things don't change between now and November, like Hillary going to jail or Trump getting shot).  I no longer care what happens to the US, even though I still live here.  I used to care, but you can't keep on clinging to a failed state.

[Nonsensei]

Well that was a strange article. It seems like the author is attempting to suggest that everything bad that is known about Hillary is really just some republican frame job. I guess in his mind, shes really a flawless angel of virtue.

I won't be voting for Clinton. Yes thats right. Even if the consequences are that Donald Trump wins. (I won't be voting for him either, btw). Why will I not be voting for Clinton? Its simple. I don't like her. Shes a shady character, a social and political chameleon, and frankly she simply wants it way too fucking much. To the point where she is essentially willing to cheat in the primary even while she is ahead. Further, she has had the unconditional, unmitigated support of the media since day 1 which sets off all sorts of blaring alarms in my mind.

I think in an environment free of media interference, on a stage with all of the candidates' history, attributes and positions presented side by side, the American people by and large would not choose her as president or even as the democratic nominee. I feel like her victory is the result of momentum that she was given - for free by the media - right in the start with the constant reporting of delegate numbers including super delegates of which she had 500 more than anyone else. The average American was given a total, and the fact that the superdelegates could change their votes was underplayed in the media to say the least. In short, the media gave her a 500 delegate lead that she didn't really have and she rode it to victory.

I won't cast a vote for the media selected candidate. I won't cast a vote for the corporate sponsorship candidate. I won't cast a vote for the DNC establishment selected candidate. The peoples choice has been grossly subverted in multiple ways in this campaign, whether it be through misinformation or through actual honest to god outright cheating like the DNC rearranging voting districts to shift delegates away from Sanders AFTER THE PRIMARY WAS ALREADY OVER.

She and her supporters reek of dishonesty and they DO NOT DESERVE MY VOTE. If Donald Trump wins then so fucking be it. It just means that Hillary wasn't good enough to make it. Every one of you should be depressed as fuck that these two nimrods are our only choices.

[Hydra009]

Well that was a strange article. It seems like the author is attempting to suggest that everything bad that is known about Hillary is really just some republican frame job. I guess in his mind, shes really a flawless angel of virtue.

Yeah, that's the impression I got, too.  Which is weird because we have tons of legitimate reasons to wonder about her character that have nothing to do with the Republicans - the Dem debate 9/11 fiasco, for starters.

I won't be voting for Clinton. Yes thats right. Even if the consequences are that Donald Trump wins. (I won't be voting for him either, btw).

I'm not thrilled with her either, but Trump would be an absolute disaster.  This is a guy with zero political experience, seemingly genuinely believes that global warming is a hoax and that vaccines cause autism, and what little policies he brings to the table have been shown to be some combination of utterly moronic, unworkable, and/or anathema to American values.  I'd shake hands with the Devil himself for Trump's campaign to crash and burn.  And if that means going with a Dem candidate that I'm not particularly proud of endorsing, then so be it.

I think in an environment free of media interference, on a stage with all of the candidates' history, attributes and positions presented side by side

Yeah, I'd love that, too.  If that were remotely in my power, I'd work to make that happen.

Every one of you should be depressed as fuck that these two nimrods are our only choices.

Believe me, I am.  It's like Cersei Lannister VS Ramsay Bolton and I'm in House Tyrell.  What could go wrong?

[gentle_dissident]

What could go wrong?

Well at least they're all, "Not on our soil."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sATC1TNIR2U

[PickelledEggs]

Well that was a strange article. It seems like the author is attempting to suggest that everything bad that is known about Hillary is really just some republican frame job. I guess in his mind, shes really a flawless angel of virtue.

I won't be voting for Clinton. Yes thats right. Even if the consequences are that Donald Trump wins. (I won't be voting for him either, btw). Why will I not be voting for Clinton? Its simple. I don't like her. Shes a shady character, a social and political chameleon, and frankly she simply wants it way too fucking much. To the point where she is essentially willing to cheat in the primary even while she is ahead. Further, she has had the unconditional, unmitigated support of the media since day 1 which sets off all sorts of blaring alarms in my mind.

I think in an environment free of media interference, on a stage with all of the candidates' history, attributes and positions presented side by side, the American people by and large would not choose her as president or even as the democratic nominee. I feel like her victory is the result of momentum that she was given - for free by the media - right in the start with the constant reporting of delegate numbers including super delegates of which she had 500 more than anyone else. The average American was given a total, and the fact that the superdelegates could change their votes was underplayed in the media to say the least. In short, the media gave her a 500 delegate lead that she didn't really have and she rode it to victory.

I won't cast a vote for the media selected candidate. I won't cast a vote for the corporate sponsorship candidate. I won't cast a vote for the DNC establishment selected candidate. The peoples choice has been grossly subverted in multiple ways in this campaign, whether it be through misinformation or through actual honest to god outright cheating like the DNC rearranging voting districts to shift delegates away from Sanders AFTER THE PRIMARY WAS ALREADY OVER.

She and her supporters reek of dishonesty and they DO NOT DESERVE MY VOTE. If Donald Trump wins then so fucking be it. It just means that Hillary wasn't good enough to make it. Every one of you should be depressed as fuck that these two nimrods are our only choices.

So you would be ok with Donald Trump getting in to office because your vote didn't count against him? I'm assuming that is what you mean by that... because that is exactly what your lack of voting will help do.

Seems overly prideful to me.

[gentle_dissident]

Seems overly prideful to me.

It probably just makes him physically ill.