Is The Vatican An Evil Organization?

[Hydra009]

I don't necessarily know if I buy moralistic and pluralistic, "Good/bad" bullshit anymore... but my definition of what is right and what is wrong, I think the Roman Catholic church does commit at an alarming rate "bad" acts.

By just about any metric of harm, the organization does harm regularly.  Buggering kids (plus covering it up and hiding perpetrators from justice), performing exorcisms, prohibiting condoms, even the everyday indoctrination of guilt and fear.  Definitely the sort of the thing the world could do without.

I do not think it's core purpose and principles are evil, I just think it is an organization that is run by ignorant men who think they are doing the right thing without ever thinking about if they are doing the right thing.

That's often how evil happens.  Few people wake up looking to intentionally do evil.  Rather, it's well-intentioned people with some very bad policies who unintentionally cause a lot of harm.  And in this case, these policies are sacrosanct, making it extremely difficult to self-correct.

A big part of my beef with religion is morality completely divorced from reality.  In this pious mindset, "desecrating" crackers is an outrageous offense, but breeding like rabbits is permissible, laudable even.  From an outside perspective, this seems insane.

[Baruch]

There are good and decent priests and nuns and monks and friars. I will not say that there are not. Many of these people are innocent of any crime and do mean well and do do good works. However, as one moves up the ladder and gets closer to the power and the money, one gets closer to the filth that has characterized the organization's history. By time one gets to the Curia, one might as well be sitting in w/one of the 5 Families. You are talking about politicians. A politician is a scumbag who's so deceitful that he can't ask for water when he's thirsty. He's got to trick you into giving it to him. Otherwise, he'd not be able to swallow it.

Correct .. it is just business as usual, inside or outside the Church.

[Mike Cl]

I just really do believe that people can have a huge disconnect between their actions and their morals and don't realise they are doing the wrong thing... and that is not just in religion, but in any aspect of life. I am 100% certain many of the Catholic hierarchy are just corrupt jackasses, but I just cant believe that in an organization of so many "true believers", that the top of the totem pole is not predominately true believers who get caught up in a bad sort of life and just go along with the status quo.

I suppose it's kinda like when a crowd sees someone in need of help... they all just stand around and do nothing.

Yeah, I see your point.  Like marom said, the lower portion of the hierarchy is most likely good works kind of people--they want to help.  And I agree that the church is like any other organization this huge; it is peopled with the good and the bad--but as one goes up the worse it gets.  Like Enron or BP or any other corporation, it is interested in profit and does not matter much how it is achieved.  What pushes the church so firmly into the evil category is its supposed teaching of doing right no matter the cost.  No other corp. teaches or preaches that--just religious ones.  That's where it stands out for me.

[marom1963]

Yeah, I see your point.  Like marom said, the lower portion of the hierarchy is most likely good works kind of people--they want to help.  And I agree that the church is like any other organization this huge; it is peopled with the good and the bad--but as one goes up the worse it gets.  Like Enron or BP or any other corporation, it is interested in profit and does not matter much how it is achieved.  What pushes the church so firmly into the evil category is its supposed teaching of doing right no matter the cost.  No other corp. teaches or preaches that--just religious ones.  That's where it stands out for me.

Yeah - and, because of the Church, the other corporations have to wear their smiley faces - even banks - pretending to care about their victims while they are breaking their victims' backs and sinking in their fangs into their victims' flesh.

[stromboli]

You can view what is happening in the different dioceses as controlled and run locally, but I don't think so. Catholicism has always been a centrally run organization. Anything that happens on as wide a scale as has occurred over decades has to at least had to have tacit acceptance by the church. Yes the pope is responsible. If he wants to declare himself as "The Vicar Of Christ" then he better shoulder the responsibility that goes with it.

Millions of dollars has been funneled into protecting child abuse and pedophilia. It came from somewhere. That the leadership of said church is unaware of that is ludicrous. Follow the money. Somebody authorized the use of that money, somebody above the people who spent it. Archbishops answer to the pope. Shouldn't be that hard to make a connection.

Additionally, if a "clean" diocese  remains silent of the activity of others, or claims no knowledge, then they truly are ignorant; or more likely turning a blind eye to atrocities. And that there is a long history of hiding atrocious behavior and deflecting investigations, I'd say somebody at the top has some idea it exists.

The Magdalene laundries existed up to 1996. Between that and the fact that a monster like mother Teresa can not only inflict her evil will on helpless women and then be touted for sainthood ought to say something about the leadership.

Just some of my country boy logic.

[marom1963]

You can view what is happening in the different dioceses as controlled and run locally, but I don't think so. Catholicism has always been a centrally run organization. Anything that happens on as wide a scale as has occurred over decades has to at least had to have tacit acceptance by the church. Yes the pope is responsible. If he wants to declare himself as "The Vicar Of Christ" then he better shoulder the responsibility that goes with it.

Millions of dollars has been funneled into protecting child abuse and pedophilia. It came from somewhere. That the leadership of said church is unaware of that is ludicrous. Follow the money. Somebody authorized the use of that money, somebody above the people who spent it. Archbishops answer to the pope. Shouldn't be that hard to make a connection.

Additionally, if a "clean" diocese  remains silent of the activity of others, or claims no knowledge, then they truly are ignorant; or more likely turning a blind eye to atrocities. And that there is a long history of hiding atrocious behavior and deflecting investigations, I'd say somebody at the top has some idea it exists.

The Magdalene laundries existed up to 1996. Between that and the fact that a monster like mother Teresa can not only inflict her evil will on helpless women and then be touted for sainthood ought to say something about the leadership.

Just some of my country boy logic.

Finally, somebody else who is willing openly to call that old hag a monster! What a fucking bitch she was! What a corrupt, evil, nasty witch she was! You want to talk about pure evil? Mother Teresa was pure evil incarnate!

[stromboli]

Finally, somebody else who is willing openly to call that old hag a monster! What a fucking bitch she was! What a corrupt, evil, nasty witch she was! You want to talk about pure evil? Mother Teresa was pure evil incarnate!

When you have someone like our recent visitor RC and him being either completely oblivious or choosing to ignore atrocious behavior so widespread that it gets international notice, You get some idea of how self delusional the religious can be. And Catholics are right near the top for willful ignorance. But there is plenty to go around.