Athiest are the dumbest people. No Offence its just true.

[Harassed]

In my personal experience being harassed by Mennonite Brethren and other bible thumpers.  Most are so low IQ, they have no idea how a smart person thinks.  Their idea of intelligence:  lie and cheat to fool normal people.  WOW, what an accomplishment. 

[Randy Carson]

So is god incapable of creating a creation in which he knows all his creations will choose to live by his code and come to accept him of their free will?

Free will does nothing about this problem if your creator is allpowerfull and allknowing.

So, it somehow reflects poorly on God that He did not create only people whom He knew in advance would accept Him?

[Randy Carson]

In my personal experience being harassed by Mennonite Brethren and other bible thumpers.  Most are so low IQ, they have no idea how a smart person thinks.  Their idea of intelligence:  lie and cheat to fool normal people.  WOW, what an accomplishment.

I would not disagree with you.

However, not all Christians are like that, are they?

[Harassed]

In this particular analogy, you are the robber, God is the judge, and Jesus is your defense attorney.

You freely chose to commit the crime, and God is justly prepared to sentence you to death. Jesus, however, stands before the Father and pleads your cause because you have asked Him for forgiveness.

Case dismissed. You are free to enter heaven.

WOW!  Rape on friday, magic jesus words on sunday, then it's all OK?  Is that how it works?

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Case dismissed. You are free to enter heaven.

Right after Adolf Hitler. Anne Frank, on the other hand, couldn't get in.

[Randy Carson]

WOW!  Rape on friday, magic jesus words on sunday, then it's all OK?  Is that how it works?

Yes and no.

Yes, the eternal consequences of sin are dealt with by asking God for forgiveness.

No, the temporal consequences still remain. So, the rapist will still go to jail and will probably go to purgatory rather than straight to heaven.

However, there is one other consideration: God cannot be fooled by someone giving mere lip service to his repentance. So, the "magic jesus words" must be genuine.

[Randy Carson]

Right after Adolf Hitler. Anne Frank, on the other hand, couldn't get in.

Why not?

[marom1963]

Why not?

She had never been baptized. Hitler, as a Catholic, had.

[Mr.Obvious]

So, it somehow reflects poorly on God that He did not create only people whom He knew in advance would accept Him?

Yes. If you think of him as The unlimited entity many do.
Especially if you believe The punishment for being created The way he chose to create you means hell.
And even if you think non christians won't be punished if they are good people, it still remains a strange choice to create The world in this way and not a better, christian one. It would have literaly taken him no more effort, not taken away free will and have caused less grief and have had him accomplish more of his alledged goal of forming a personal relationship with everyone.

[Randy Carson]

She had never been baptized. Hitler, as a Catholic, had.

Formal baptism is not a requirement for entrance into heaven. Desire for baptism would suffice, and that desire may be either explicit or implicit. Here's an explanation:

Catholic teaching has clarified the nature of this desire and shown it can be either explicit or implicit. One has explicit desire for baptism if he consciously desires and resolves to be baptized (as with catechumens and others). One has an implicit desire if he would resolve to be baptized if he knew the truth about it.

How does implicit desire work? Consider the following analogy: Suppose there is a person who is sick and needs a shot of penicillin to make him better. He tells his physician, "Doc, you've got to give me something to help me get well!" The doctor looks at his chart and says, "Oh, what you want is penicillin. That's the right drug for you." In this case the man had an explicit desire for a drug to make him better -- whatever that drug might be -- and the appropriate one was penicillin. He thus had an implicit desire for penicillin even if he had not heard of it before. Thus the doctor said: "What you want is penicillin." This shows that it is possible to want something without knowing what it is.

A person who has a desire to be saved and come to the truth, regardless of what that truth turns out to be, has an implicit desire for Catholicism and for the Catholic Church, because that is where truth and salvation are obtained. By resolving to pursue salvation and truth, he resolves to pursue the Catholic Church, even though he does not know that is what he is seeking. He thus implicitly longs to be a Catholic by explicitly longing and resolving to seek salvation and truth.

Papal and conciliar writings in the last hundred years have clarified that those who are consciously non-Catholic in their theology may still have an overriding implicit desire for the truth and hence for Catholicism. Pope Pius XII stated that concerning some of "those who do not belong to the visible Body of the Catholic Church . . . by an unconscious desire and longing they have a certain relationship with the Mystical Body of the Redeemer" (Mystici Corporis 103).

How does this work? Consider our example of the sick man who needs penicillin. Suppose that he thinks that a sulfa drug will cure him and he explicitly desires it. So he tells the doctor, "Doc, I'm real sick, and you've got to give me that sulfa drug to make me better." But the doctor notices on his chart that he has an allergy to sulfa drugs, and says, "No, you don't want that; what you really want is penicillin." In this case the person's primary desire is to get well; he has simply mistaken what will bring that about. Since his primary desire to be well, he implicitly desires whatever will cause that to happen. He thus implicitly desires the correct drug and will explicitly desire that drug as soon as he realizes the sulfa would not work.
As papal and conciliar writings have indicated, the same thing is possible in religion. If a person's primary desire is for salvation and truth then he implicitly desires Catholicism even if he is consciously mistaken about what will bring him salvation and truth. He might be a member of some other church, yet desire salvation and truth so much that he would instantly become a Catholic if he knew the truth concerning it. In this case, his primary desire would be for salvation and truth -- wherever that might be found -- rather than his primary desire being membership in a non-Catholic church.

However, the situation could be reversed. It is possible for a person to have a stronger desire not to be a Catholic than to come to the truth. This would be the case when people resist evidence for the truth of Catholicism out of a desire to remain non-Catholic. In this case their primary desire would not be for the truth but for remaining a non-Catholic. Thus their ignorance of the truth would not be innocent (because they desired something else more than the truth), and it would constitute mortal sin.

Taken from:

The Necessity of Being Catholic
by James Akin
http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=3447

[marom1963]

Didn't see anything in Anne Frank's diary implying a desire to be baptized ... Read it ages ago, maybe I'm forgetting. She was Jewish, wasn't she?

[Randy Carson]

Yes. If you think of him as The unlimited entity many do.
Especially if you believe The punishment for being created The way he chose to create you means hell.
And even if you think non christians won't be punished if they are good people, it still remains a strange choice to create The world in this way and not a better, christian one. It would have literatuur taken him no more effort, not taken away free will and have caused less grief and have had him accomplish more of his alledged goal of forming a personal relationship with everyone.

You have raised a really good point...one that has been debated for a long time. Rather than try to give you a brief response of my own, I'd like to offer a link to an article which is not too long but addresses your concern reasonably well.

ISN’T IT PERVERSE TO CREATE A PERSON, KNOWING HE WILL BE DAMNED?
http://rcspirituality.org/ask-a-priest-isnt-it-perverse-to-create-a-person-knowing-he-will-be-damned/

[Baruch]

I agree. Memes are the last gasp effort of the intellectually bankrupt.

I don't know your financial situation but you are not an intellectual ;-)  A picture is worth a thousand words, or do you dismiss China?

[marom1963]

You have raised a really good point...one that has been debated for a long time. Rather than try to give you a brief response of my own, I'd like to offer a link to an article which is not too long but addresses your concern reasonably well.

ISN’T IT PERVERSE TO CREATE A PERSON, KNOWING HE WILL BE DAMNED?
http://rcspirituality.org/ask-a-priest-isnt-it-perverse-to-create-a-person-knowing-he-will-be-damned/

When do you find the time?! You've got more of this crap pasted all over here than Home Depot has wallpaper. Just copying and pasting this much stuff has to take 20 hours/day. You can't read it all.

[Randy Carson]

Didn't see anything in Anne Frank's diary implying a desire to be baptized ... Read it ages ago, maybe I'm forgetting. She was Jewish, wasn't she?

Both Anne Frank and you have a desire for good things. You also distinguish between good and gooder and gooder and goodest. Thus, you want the goodest things above all.

God is the goodest of all, and desiring him is normal and natural.

Now, although Anne and you may not have an explicit desire, "I want to be baptized", you do have an implicit desire to obtain the Goodest which is God.

Therefore, if you KNEW that baptism was the means to obtaining the goodest, you would desire baptism immediately upon learning of it.

As a Jewess, Anne would have already known of the Goodest, and presumably, she desired it.

As an atheist, there is more work to be done before you can explicitly desire baptism, but the implicit desire for God is already within you.