Nine killed at church shooting in SC.

[SGOS]

http://news.yahoo.com/suspected-charleston-shooter-dylann-roof-wanted-to-start--race-war---reports-164102298.html#

From the national scene, the rather banal debate over terrorist vs insane person vs hate crime continues.  When they captured the first Muslim terrorist years ago, we had a national debate about where to try him and under what label.  I thought then that they were giving a common asshole too much attention and even elevating his status from murderer to something more grand and glorious in his own mind.  Apparently, these things make a difference in some legal way.  Why, I have no idea.  Just let him sit through the trial while the prosecution names the innocents he murdered.  Don't bother with motivations.  Just focus on the behavior for what it is.  Don't let him have the floor to explain his ideology.  Don't even mention it.

[Dreamer]

*Yeah I said faggot. If we're going to decide that its a hate word (and it is) then we may as well use it for its intended purpose. So I think it fits quite well in this case.

That's as idiotic as calling him the n word and as inappropriate and hateful, too.

[Mike Cl]

http://news.yahoo.com/suspected-charleston-shooter-dylann-roof-wanted-to-start--race-war---reports-164102298.html#

From the national scene, the rather banal debate over terrorist vs insane person vs hate crime continues.  When they captured the first Muslim terrorist years ago, we had a national debate about where to try him and under what label.  I thought then that they were giving a common asshole too much attention and even elevating his status from murderer to something more grand and glorious in his own mind.  Apparently, these things make a difference in some legal way.  Why, I have no idea.  Just let him sit through the trial while the prosecution names the innocents he murdered.  Don't bother with motivations.  Just focus on the behavior for what it is.  Don't let him have the floor to explain his ideology.  Don't even mention it.

Yep--I agree.  I've often wondered if the media's handling of the various 'terror attacks' have not been fueling some of these attacks, in a way.  Isis, for example, feeds off that type of press.  The so called 'lone wolf' attacks that get such press helps fuel the next and the next attack.  Maybe if those type of attacks were called violence and murder, then they may not be so 'sexy' to a certain group of people.  I can remember overhearing some of the juvenile offenders in my classroom making remarks such as 'they are going to remember me as a terrorist.......'; they did not like to be called a murderer or violent offender--but terrorist was okay.

[Mike Cl]

You agree, I agree and we are obviously not alone. And yet, this is still the America we end up with. Why is that? What are you and I not doing enough of? I'm a smart guy and I think you are too but for the life of me I don't understand why this is the reality we seem to be stuck with. Racism simply will not die.

I am not at all a fan of the (I believe) misguided thought that certain otherwise undesirable character flaws are simply genetics. The don juans of the world will tell you that men are genetically wired to spread their seed and that's why guys cheat and sleep with anything that moves. Hogwash. Men are perfectly capable of being faithful and displaying good character so if you want to whore yourself out to anyone who will spread their legs in order to get your dick wet, so be it but own it. Don't argue genetics to justify your own lack of good character.

But this racism stuff? I just don't know. We are collectively the most intelligent individuals that have ever inhabited the surface of this planet. At least as far as we know. And yet we still cannot help but act like raw savages toward one another. It seems like a cop out to fall back on it but I have to wonder if genetically we as a group are simply not capable of achieving the idealogical heights which we seem to so easily convince ourselves we've already attained individually.

I, too, am deeply puzzled by the life racism has in this country.  I don't really understand it.  I mean, I understand racism--I just don't understand why it seems to have such stout legs.  My first brush with racism was when I moved to Alabama in the 5th grade.  I noticed 'colored' and 'white' signs in stores over drinking fountains and rest rooms, and then that the 'coloreds' could eat some places and not others--go to school in their own schools, etc.  That was quite the culture shock for a little white guy from Oregon.  And I was asked by some of the first people I met in school--are you a rebel or a yankee.  I had no idea what they were talking about; they learned I was from Oregon, so I became a Yankee (and have been a Yankees fan ever since).  I learned that the Civil War had not been fought, but that the War of Yankee Agression, had.  And still is being fought for some.  I don't know that the zeitgeist or elan of that area and culture have changed much since the Civil War.  What could have changed it?  Maybe if it had been made crystal clear that the confederate states had lost and that what they were fighting for was morally bankrupt, and that allowing the symbols of that bankrupt morality to exist was not going to happen would have changed it.  Maybe it would have been better to have destroyed all those symbols and then not allowed streets and schools and buildings and parks to be named after the fallen 'heros' of the confederate states; the remnants had  been kept in museums only; maybe that would have blunted that unreasoning love of the confederacy.  I don't know.  There are some sick puppies in that area.

And yes, I know that racism is alive and well in all 50 states.  Yes, I understand group vs group hatred.  But this is beyond that, isn't it?  And I think education is a key to breaking that stuff down.  Maybe one lifetime is much too short a time to make many real changes.  I don't know.  This process may take generations to really change.  But the why of it still escapes me.

[Johan]

And yes, I know that racism is alive and well in all 50 states.  Yes, I understand group vs group hatred.  But this is beyond that, isn't it?  And I think education is a key to breaking that stuff down.  Maybe one lifetime is much too short a time to make many real changes.  I don't know.  This process may take generations to really change.  But the why of it still escapes me.

I think it stands to reason that education over several generations could eventually make racism nonexistent.  It might take many generations. But I really am worried about the genetic wiring thing. I'm afraid that selective pressure has rendered us as a species of individuals that instinctively want to band ourselves into groups and then make other similar groups our enemy. I think deep down we're hard wired for that.

If that's the case, it will likely take more than education over several generations to breed racism out of us. It will likely take a couple hundred thousand generations to get the job done. The good news here is that if this theory is correct, racism as we know it will come to an end long before we're able to breed it out of our genetics. Because I think its much more likely that we will breed away our individual races much sooner that we'll be able to breed away our need to make enemies. Its going to be tough to be racist once we're all of the exact same generic race.

The thought of it does make me wonder what traits we will use to single out individuals to discriminate against once we're all the same color. Those with small foreheads? Those with wide cheekbones maybe? 'Get the fuck out of here you fucking flat face, we don't want your kind here'. Oh I can't wait.

[Atheon]

Ban guns. Stamp out racism.

[Dreamer]

Did anyone see the video of all the families forgiving this terrorist thug?

It's really amazing.

[aitm]

Did anyone see the video of all the families forgiving this terrorist thug?

It's really amazing.

Perhaps, or is just, the first guy played the card and the second had no choice but to follow or look bad. Kinda like when one wins an monetary prize at a fund-raiser. Nobody wants to be second in case the first fuck gives the money back.