Pastor Condemns Fellow Clergymen For Not Supporting Death Penalty For Gays

[SGOS]

That would be the version commissioned to punch up the sections that supported the CofE (and Protestantism generally) over Catholicism.  The KJE is one of the more explicitly political "translations".  So apparently, they agree on antipopery.

Ahhh, that would explain why it was important to a Baptist.  I used to wonder why when I said the Lord's Prayer in unison with others, other people would say different words.  It would throw things off at a certain point, and people would chuckle.  I'm wondering now if those people who "didn't say it right" were Catholics?

[Mike Cl]

If only we could convert stupidity into an energy source. We've got enough stupid to travel clear across the galaxy.

Yeah.  And just from this country alone.

[Mike Cl]

Ahhh, that would explain why it was important to a Baptist.  I used to wonder why when I said the Lord's Prayer in unison with others, other people would say different words.  It would throw things off at a certain point, and people would chuckle.  I'm wondering now if those people who "didn't say it right" were Catholics?

One of the reasons I find studying the history of the buybull is that is has such a complicated history and there are versions galore out there.  The Lord's Prayer is just one illustration of all of that.  Consider this rendition:

Origins of The Lord's Prayer

Why do theologians spend years studying Classical Greek? Because common translations of the New Testament do not fully reflect their Greek Origins.

How can the vast majority of us profit from this Classical Greek scholarship without studying Classical Greek? By reading a faithful word-for-word literal translation of the Greek, as in the following transliteration of the Lord's Prayer:

Father of ours who 's in * heaven,
hallowed be thy name of yours,
come thy kingdom of yours,
arise thy will of yours,
as in heaven, also on earth.

This bread of ours that 's for the coming day give us this day.
And free us from these debts of ours
as also we have freed those debtors of ours.
And do not lead us into trial,
but draw us to you, away from that which is grievous .
How can we be sure that a word-for-word transliteration is itself faithful? In a word, page notes. Mouse over any word of the above prayer, and you will find the Greek word it came from along with common alternate translations of the Greek word. In some cases, a reference to a Greek-English lexicon is provided for backup. Additional page notes comment on significant differences between the literal word-for-word translation and traditional translations.

But what is the original, most authentic version of the Greek New Testament? In 1853, Brooke Foss Westcott and Fenton John Anthony Hort asked an interesting question: What was the original Greek version of the New Testament? They compared available ancient Greek texts and worked backwards to a probable common ancestor, which they called The New Testament in the Original Greek. Their work is based on the oldest extant versions of the New Testament, including the Codex Sinaiticus and the Codex Vaticanus. The above transliteration is taken word-for-word from their work, Matthew 6:9-13.

A few points--the lawrd's preyer can be found in two places--Mathew and Luke.  Each a little different.  When the author of the above mentions Codex Sinaticus and Codex Vaticanus, he opens another can of worms.  There is no way of knowing what the 'original' babble consisted of because it simply did not survive, so all we have are copies of copies.  (Ever play telephone, where a person whispers a phrase into the ear of one, who then turns and whispers the same message to another, and so on.  And the end phrase is never the same as the starting one?  Copies of copies of copies face the same problem) So, all we have to go on are fragments of old surviving texts.  And it has been surmised that the NT was all written in Greek, while Jesus would have spoken Aremaic.  Translation problems right off the bat.  Anyway, I love looking into this stuff.  The average 'educated' christian looks at me with a blank look when I bring this subject up.  The religious just simply do not like to be reminded of history of any level or depth.

[SGOS]

Father of ours who 's in * heaven,
hallowed be thy name of yours,
come thy kingdom of yours,
arise thy will of yours,
as in heaven, also on earth.

This bread of ours that 's for the coming day give us this day.
And free us from these debts of ours
as also we have freed those debtors of ours....

I need to memorize this and practice it, so I can say it during a group prayer.  Talk about monkey wrenching the ambiance!  But then I could explain to everyone that I was reciting it in close to an original form.  I'm sure that could get some attention.

[trdsf]

Ahhh, that would explain why it was important to a Baptist.  I used to wonder why when I said the Lord's Prayer in unison with others, other people would say different words.  It would throw things off at a certain point, and people would chuckle.  I'm wondering now if those people who "didn't say it right" were Catholics?

Quite possibly.  The version we recited together in church ended at "deliver us from evil" and didn't continue on with "for thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory now and forever" before the "amen"; I think I've only heard the longer version recited in Protestant services by the congregation.  Something like the doxology was said by the priest, though.

[SGOS]

Now that you mention it, I do remember instances where people would end the prayer early.  You don't tend to notice this as much as different words, because it doesn't screw up the cadence.  In addition the rest of the prayer is carried on by enough others to cover for the lost voices.  When this would happen, I just sort of assumed people decided to stop talking because they said enough of the important part, or they just got tired of praying.