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Best Linux build for noobs?

Started by Davka, March 01, 2013, 05:08:34 PM

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Johan

Quote from: "Davka"
QuoteI think my dark beer analogy was good. Another good analogy is Tom Waits. Linux is the Tom Waits of operating systems.
Linux and Windows are both operating systems. There is a reason one is more commonly known than the other.
Tom Waits and Justin Bieber are both musicians. There is a reason one is more commonly known than the other.
As a musician and a homebrewer of dark beers, I'll take the dark beer analogy, but not necessarily Tom Waits. I'm more of a Beatles/Pink Floyd/Yes/Spirit/Led Zep kind of guy, myself.  :wink:
Nah, the Tom Waits analogy is spot on. You will only love Tom Waits if you decide on your own to see what this Tom Waits guy is all about. If you try to listen to Tom because your music geek friend told you how awesome he is, you'll hate every minute of it and you'll never listen to advice from that friend again. You have to come to it on your own. That's the only way it ever works. Linux is the same way.
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false and by the rulers as useful

Seabear

So by this analogy, Budweiser must be the best beer in the world.
"There is a saying in the scientific community, that every great scientific truth goes through three phases. First, people deny it. Second, they say it conflicts with the Bible. Third, they say they knew it all along."

- Neil deGrasse Tyson

Davka

Re:
#17
Quote from: "Seabear"Windows takes just as much as effort, if not more, to install and maintain. The ONLY difference is that it comes pre-installed on virtually every new PC, so the "average" user never has to deal with it.

When was the last time you installed Windows 7? It's a breeze. One-click installation, or damned near. Finds all the drivers for you, if not on install then on your first update.

QuoteWhich is EXACTLY what the OP is proposing; pre-installing and configuring the OS. So stipulating  that the average end user won't be installing or configuring the OS in either scenario, doesn't that eliminate that advantage of windows, really?
Not really. Everything out in Hello World-land is configured for Windows. Try installing or updating Flash in a Linux build, compared to Windows. Or running an off-the-shelf program like Office. Or any other action an end-user with zero comprehension of computers is likely to try.

QuoteEvery argument I ever hear for windows amounts to little more than an appeal to tradition. Windows is just what everyone is used to. That doesn't make it better, and it sure doesn't make it simpler. Or cheaper.
It's not just tradition, it's compatibility.

_Xenu_

Quote from: "Seabear"Windows takes just as much as effort, if not more, to install and maintain. The ONLY difference is that it comes pre-installed on virtually every new PC, so the "average" user never has to deal with it.
If anything, Linux is much easier to install and does much better with hardware. Microsoft is beyond lazy in this area, and Windows has to be packaged with certain hardware by the OEM.

Quote from: "Seabear"Which is EXACTLY what the OP is proposing; pre-installing and configuring the OS. So stipulating  that the average end user won't be installing or configuring the OS in either scenario, doesn't that eliminate that advantage of windows, really?
Only partially. Users still have the learn the Linux way of doing things and the majority simply dont want to.

Quote from: "Seabear"Every argument I ever hear for windows amounts to little more than an appeal to tradition. Windows is just what everyone is used to. That doesn't make it better, and it sure doesn't make it simpler. Or cheaper.
I firmly believe Linux would blow Microsoft away if they weren't so firmly entrenched. They don't compete on quality and never did, but endlessly scheme up ways to lock people into their ecosystem instead.
Click this link once a day to feed shelter animals. Its free.

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/clickToGive/ars/home

Davka

Quote from: "Johan"
Quote from: "Davka"
QuoteI think my dark beer analogy was good. Another good analogy is Tom Waits. Linux is the Tom Waits of operating systems.
Linux and Windows are both operating systems. There is a reason one is more commonly known than the other.
Tom Waits and Justin Bieber are both musicians. There is a reason one is more commonly known than the other.
As a musician and a homebrewer of dark beers, I'll take the dark beer analogy, but not necessarily Tom Waits. I'm more of a Beatles/Pink Floyd/Yes/Spirit/Led Zep kind of guy, myself.  :wink:
Nah, the Tom Waits analogy is spot on. You will only love Tom Waits if you decide on your own to see what this Tom Waits guy is all about. If you try to listen to Tom because your music geek friend told you how awesome he is, you'll hate every minute of it and you'll never listen to advice from that friend again. You have to come to it on your own. That's the only way it ever works. Linux is the same way.
I've listened to plenty of Tom Waits because I wanted to. He just starts sounding all the same after the tenth song or so, even if he is a brilliant lyricist.

Davka

Quote from: "Seabear"So by this analogy, Budweiser must be the best beer in the world.
"Best"? Fuck, no. Most popular, maybe - but that's only in the USA. Globally, it's probably some Chinese swill.

Davka

Quote from: "_Xenu_"I firmly believe Linux would blow Microsoft away if they weren't so firmly entrenched. They don't compete on quality and never did, but endlessly scheme up ways to lock people into their ecosystem instead.

Windows is the OS for the average idiot. And there are a fuckload of average idiots out there. I'd be out of a job if there weren't.

Johan

Quote from: "Seabear"So by this analogy, Budweiser must be the best beer in the world.
To some people it is. To me, it isn't beer at all. But to some, its the best money can buy. Who am I to argue?
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false and by the rulers as useful

Johan

Quote from: "Davka"I've listened to plenty of Tom Waits because I wanted to. He just starts sounding all the same after the tenth song or so, even if he is a brilliant lyricist.
Of course he does. He's Tom Waits. Everything he does is going to be Tom Waits. But the point still stands. You listened to him because you wanted to.  No one and I mean no one becomes a Tom Waits fan at the advice of someone else. You come to it on your own or you don't come to it at all. Just like Linux.
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false and by the rulers as useful

Seabear

Open Office is free and runs great on Ubuntu. Did I mention its free? How much does M$ charge for Office these days? And BTW, office runs just fine in Wine (Windows Emulator, a Linux application that let's you run Win exe's for those who may not be familiar).

Updating Flash is super easy too, your Chrome or Firefox browser takes care of that for you, just like in Windows.  No different.

Basically, you are just making excuses in an attempt to make Linux sound way worse than it really is, and to make Windows sound WAY better than it actually is.

I also notice that while I am referring specifically to the ease of using Ubuntu, you keep referring to "Linux" in general terms, as if all Linux-based systems were the same. Debian, Ubuntu, Red Hat, Slackware, Gentoo... All the same in your broad-brush fallacy. Ubuntu gives special consideration to ease of use.

You don't EVEN want to get into a discussion comparing and contrasting the technical merits of Windows compared to Linux. Windows resource management is laughable. Disk defrag lately? Update your antivirus? Clean your registry? Run CCleaner? There is a billion-dollar software industry that has evolved to fix the technical fuck-ups with which M$ has saddled unsuspecting consumers. But we should definitely stick with it. After all, its what we are all used to. And god knows, MS is counting on the fact that we are mostly all too lazy to learn anything new.
"There is a saying in the scientific community, that every great scientific truth goes through three phases. First, people deny it. Second, they say it conflicts with the Bible. Third, they say they knew it all along."

- Neil deGrasse Tyson

Johan

Quote from: "Seabear"Open Office is free and runs great on Ubuntu. Did I mention its free? How much does M$ charge for Office these days? And BTW, office runs just fine in Wine (Windows Emulator, a Linux application that let's you run Win exe's for those who may not be familiar).
Office does indeed run fine in wine. But the moment you've mentioned the need for wine in order to run office, you've lost 99% of the end users. Did I say 99%? That's wrong. Its 100%. They don't know nor do they want to know. Period.


QuoteBasically, you are just making excuses in an attempt to make Linux sound way worse than it really is, and to make Windows sound WAY better than it actually is.
No, I'm explaining what the typical end user expects and will put up with from a computer. Linux is great. Typical end users are not. But typical end users are what pays the bills. Linux does not.

QuoteI also notice that while I am referring specifically to the ease of using Ubuntu, you keep referring to "Linux" in general terms, as if all Linux-based systems were the same. Debian, Ubuntu, Red Hat, Slackware, Gentoo... All the same in your broad-brush fallacy. Ubuntu gives special consideration to ease of use.
You're correct, not all brands of linux are the same. But all brands of typical end users are the same. And none of them are good candidates for any brand of linux.

QuoteYou don't EVEN want to get into a discussion comparing and contrasting the technical merits of Windows compared to Linux.
You're right, I don't. This isn't about windows vs linux. Its about the typical end user and what's good for the business of providing tech services to said end users. Linux ain't it. Period.
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false and by the rulers as useful

_Xenu_

Linux really is best suited to hobbyists and servers. While it makes a great OS in the right hands, most people just can't appreciate it. In any case, we might as well prosper from their stupidity.
Click this link once a day to feed shelter animals. Its free.

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/clickToGive/ars/home

moog

I have used Ubuntu a lot and agree with those that suggest it.

Lubuntu is better though, it is a trimmed down version with a better UI.

Jack89

Wow, Ubuntu is easy to install.  After reading this thread earlier this morning I installed it on my computer alongside Windows 8 and it seems to be running fine.  I'm using it right now.  Very cool.

_Xenu_

Quote from: "moog"I have used Ubuntu a lot and agree with those that suggest it.

Lubuntu is better though, it is a trimmed down version with a better UI.
You registered in 2004 and only have 413 posts? Wow man. Having said that, Lubuntu shouldn't make a bad choice. I'm in Xubuntu right now.


Quote from: "Jack89"Wow, Ubuntu is easy to install.  After reading this thread earlier this morning I installed it on my computer alongside Windows 8 and it seems to be running fine.  I'm using it right now.  Very cool.
If you're happy with the interface, go ahead and keep it. If you want another one, let us know. Also, the very first thing you should do with an Ubuntu installation is to bring up and terminal, and paste this in:

"sudo apt-get install ubuntu-restricted-extras"

This will automatically download and install pretty much every codec you'll ever need straight from the repositories. This is how you install software now.
Click this link once a day to feed shelter animals. Its free.

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/clickToGive/ars/home