Sins of Child Sexual Abuse and the Gays

Started by Dreamer, February 27, 2023, 11:33:06 AM

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Blackleaf

Quote from: Dreamer on March 06, 2023, 12:05:58 PMLike most deeper writings, history is of course referenced.

Is Jesus' story history or allegory?
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville--

Dreamer

Quote from: Blackleaf on March 06, 2023, 08:04:46 PMIs Jesus' story history or allegory?

Even the history shared is for the spiritual meaning, similar to ouroboros.

Beyond that, there are literally hundreds of books written on considering if Jesus was a historical person or not. My answer thus lacks subtlety, nuance, or supporting evidence-not because they don't exist, but rather because they are plethora and better handled by those driven to answer such questions. That is, for a more satisfying answer, I can point you to books exploring this idea.

I can tell you that to read the Bible as a science or history text is likely to not only frustrate and trouble the reader, but such an approach also convolutes meaning.

Jesus compared the Kingdom of God to a mustard seed that when planted grows bigger than all the rest, a giant tree for birds to roost upon. The seed is described as the smallest of seeds in at least one of the versions.

Literalists freak out about this. Smallest seed? But we've found smaller seeds! Oh, but those smaller seeds weren't really seeds because they lacked all the proper parts. Then there's the problem of the mustard plant... They tend to grow about 3 feet tall or so, certainly not the giant tree supporting a large ecosystem that Jesus referenced. Ohhh, Jesus really meant some obscure tree that grows very tall and has very small trees. Etc.

Yet mustard plants were/are common and wild in ancient Israel (the US, too), were known for relatively tiny seeds, and were known to grow to about 3 feet. Jesus is accepting that expectation because the plant was so common in the area he was preaching... But our expectations, the reality of the mustard plant parable, is mangled if we jump through hoops to assert that the mustard plant was really some giant tree and not mustard at all .. The mustard seed parable says the Kingdom of God is like planting a seed, expecting a shrub at best, and getting a huge tree that attracts birds and supports a great deal of life.
<br /><br />Individually, we are one drop.  Together, we are an ocean.<br /><br />

aitm

Quote from: Dreamer on March 06, 2023, 11:46:31 AMYou're making things up that aren't there. I've shared the verses about that, yet you can't yield that your understanding was wrong? Your insults are ironic, and, as usual, what we say about others has far more to do with ourselves than anyone else.
No. You are making up things that are not there. Your approach is the whole babble is parables to convince yourself that literal has no place as it makes it uncomfortable to justify the reality.

The OT does not have parables. Those are gods laws, period.
Jesus says he is here to enforce the laws of the prophets, I.e., same shit.

You do consider a few examples and proclaim, it is all parables. It is easy to spot them, yabbering on about fig trees, falling sparrows, mustard seeds...blah blah.
It is not a parable when Jesus talks about divorce.
It is not a parable when Jesus says specifically you can move a mountain if you have the faith of a mustard seed.
It is not a parable when Jesus says whoever does not accept the kingdom of heaven as a little child shall not enter it.
It is not a parable when the babble says the time is so short that those who are married should act as if they are not.
It is not a parable when jesus tells family members to turn their backs on each other if they fail to adhere to the law.

You have a little book full of cute and flowery feel good parables and ignore the entirety of the rest of the babble.

You do not get a pass to roam around here, spouting cherry picked verses, saying, "oh, you don't understand it", and go blabbering about shit that was written by "hundreds of other people". How the hell does that even relate? Other people making up excuses to cover the asinine stupidity of the babble in no way proves the babble is not asinine stupidity. Get over yourself. Go back to the net, look for a safe spot like, www.webelieveinonlythegoodpartsofthebiblethatwecaneailymakeexcusesfor.com.  And there you will find like "minded" people who share your delusion.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Dreamer

So determined to form God to your own understanding, based on your interpretation of Scripture...

It's funny how all the crap you're attacking me for is exactly how the early church was attacked. You must have the Bible mean what you want, or you lose your self-appointed high ground. A modern-day Pharisee!
<br /><br />Individually, we are one drop.  Together, we are an ocean.<br /><br />

Dreamer

I've addressed every verse brought up, which have certainly been cherry picked to show the worst you could find. But you reject it. Why? I suppose it must be that you have some divine inspiration that tells you I'm wrong. No? It's just your own wishes? Okay.
<br /><br />Individually, we are one drop.  Together, we are an ocean.<br /><br />

Mike Cl

Quote from: Dreamer on March 07, 2023, 12:00:55 PMI've addressed every verse brought up, which have certainly been cherry picked to show the worst you could find. But you reject it. Why? I suppose it must be that you have some divine inspiration that tells you I'm wrong. No? It's just your own wishes? Okay.
No, Dreamer, that is what you do.  You picked a bible and then you interpret it as you see fit.  You see, there is no 'The Bible'.  No, it did not drop from heaven fully formed.  It was a document created from a huge number of writings and then arraigned in the order they wished the writings to be presented.  Christians destroyed the writings they did not want to include.  About 85 'books' were in existence at one time or another.  The ones that were deemed not good or not correct were destroyed; we know of those 85 (probably more) because they are named in one church 'father' or another's writings.  Today, there is still not 'the bible', but versions.  And each 'version' is different one from the other.  You are the one cherry picking not only your version, but what each line means to you.  You seem to hold yourself as the expert of what these 'parables'  mean or what they teach.  What anybody else says matters not to you. 

I also find it very odd that your 'word of god' was found only in one small spot on the globe, written in one language--and not a very common one, at that--and in one time frame.  Would not a universal god have been able to have his word produced in the common language of all the people of the world and to have it appear every place on Earth??  If one could find the bible to have appeared everywhere and in the language of that area, that would be a very powerful argument that god was real.  But the opposite has happened.  It is a regional set of writings and not universal at all. 

You are free, of course, to believe as you wish.  But do not tell me that you are right and I am wrong.  You have not presented a single 'fact' that shows that god exists or even that Jesus exists.  Your entire argument is that what you believe has to be right and what I think has to be wrong.  You do have some good ideas about love and society--but it has nothing to do with your fictional god or jesus; I don't need either to live a moral or ethical life. 
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

aitm

Quote from: Dreamer on March 07, 2023, 11:57:30 AMSo determined to form God to your own understanding, based on your interpretation of Scripture...

It's funny how all the crap you're attacking me for is exactly how the early church was attacked. You must have the Bible mean what you want, or you lose your self-appointed high ground. A modern-day Pharisee!

Therein or herein, lies the problem. Either: the babble is the word of god...or it isn't. If it is the word of god it says what it means and it means what it says. There is no "interpretation". You claim the babble HAS to be correctly "interpreted"....by who? Just the believers?
No. The babble is proclaimed to be the WORD OF GOD. Period.

Why do xians eat pork when the LAW says not to? Economics. As the word of the loving Jesus spread by the sword and gun-not much love there....it was easier to allow communities heavy in pork produce to "convert" without giving up their stable economy...and a lot easier than killing them all, after all, they helped pay for the preacher. Same for those who made a living with clams and oysters and shrimp. The word of god was suddenly....er...questionable....but okay as long as you paid the priest.

It is YOU who have abandoned the word of god in favor of a more lenient god. That god does not exist, even if you interpret the babble no matter how hard you try. The babble is clear, follow the rules, period. You choose to ignore those and think you get a side door pass to "heaven". It does not work that way...the babble says so. But hey! You do you. But stop the horse shit in our house. Go somewhere else and dance through the isles throwing rose petals. You will get no reprieve here.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Dreamer

Jesus fulfilled the law, as you already pointed out in a relevant verse.

There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin. He condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

I am not called to walk that path of death and sin. I follow Jesus, and I am under no obligation to fulfill the church's perversion of what that means-nor, indeed, anyone else's.

<br /><br />Individually, we are one drop.  Together, we are an ocean.<br /><br />

Unbeliever

#53
Look, Dreamer, if you believe in human sacrifice then fine, but please don't expect me, or the others on this forum to believe in it, or to praise the evil monster who made it happen. And the God of the Bible is, indeed, evil, and I can prove that with "scripture" if you force me to.
Or you could just click on the link at the bottom of all my posts and look at "What the Bible's God is Really Like." If you do that you can see for yourself just how monstrous that horrible fiction is. It's in the section about the Bible, easy to find.
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

aitm

Again Dreamer, you are welcome to wander about throwing flowers and bullshit claims anywhere else. But not here. We have been more than generous in our patience, but your lies are tiring, and they are lies. That is our position. You are of course free to make your own decisions, and we will make ours. But your time here seems to be running its course. Perhaps a site more gullible, er....more in line with your particular delusion would be a better fit for you.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

SGOS

Quote from: Hydra009 on March 02, 2023, 07:55:27 PMHow they reconcile it:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DARVO
DARVO  That one is new to me.  What it actual is... is not new to me.  I just never knew of the acronym.

Dreamer

Quote from: aitm on March 07, 2023, 09:51:34 PM(...) your lies are tiring, and they are lies. (...)

This is troubling. What is it you claim I have lied?
<br /><br />Individually, we are one drop.  Together, we are an ocean.<br /><br />

Dreamer

#57
Quote from: Mike Cl on March 07, 2023, 12:47:32 PMYou have not presented a single 'fact' that shows that god exists or even that Jesus exists.

Correct. This is not what I am addressing, not the subject of anything I've written here.


Rather, I am addressing the Christian dogma that is not only against what Jesus calls us to do, but it's not even Biblical! The Bible teaches against child rape. The Bible teaches God hates child molesters, not gay people. Rape is an abomination. That men who are spiritual leaders over young boys should not have sexual relationship with those children! They are particularly disgusting and depraved.

I'm aware of how the Bible was formed 😂 It's divinely inspired, not some text impervious to human deceit, narration, and outright sabotage. I'm likewise interested in all Bible books that are discovered, that had been tossed aside by self-righteous, scared men. And, since God continues to speak to us and teach us even now, I find much worthwhile in various spiritual leaders' words and writings as well.

As to you not needing belief in God for a moral or ethical life, that is undoubtedly true.

God is love; if you have known love, you have known God. Just like the force of gravity works upon us all without any regard for our beliefs, so is God.





Edited to correct the word sabotage because auto-correct isn't always correct..
<br /><br />Individually, we are one drop.  Together, we are an ocean.<br /><br />

Mike Cl

Quote from: Dreamer on March 11, 2023, 06:21:52 PMCorrect. This is not what I am addressing, not the subject of anything I've written here.


Rather, I am addressing the Christian dogma that is not only against what Jesus calls us to do, but it's not even Biblical! The Bible teaches against child rape. The Bible teaches God hates child molesters, not gay people. Rape is an abomination. That men who are spiritual leaders over young boys should not have sexual relationship with those children! They are particularly disgusting and depraved.

I'm aware of how the Bible was formed 😂 It's divinely inspired, not some text impervious to human deceit, narration, and outright sabotage. I'm likewise interested in all Bible books that are discovered, that had been tossed aside by self-righteous, scared men. And, since God continues to speak to us and teach us even now, I find much worthwhile in various spiritual leaders' words and writings as well.

As to you not needing belief in God for a moral or ethical life, that is undoubtedly true.

God is love; if you have known love, you have known God. Just like the force of gravity works upon us all without any regard for our beliefs, so is God.





Edited to correct the word sabotage because auto-correct isn't always correct..
The bible (all versions) is as divinely inspired as is the words of Bugs Bunny.  Anyway, as delusional as your beliefs are, they are yours and critical thinking will not change those beliefs.  If that is what gets you through the night then go for it.  Just do not expect me to pay much attention to your blathering.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

aitm

Quote from: Dreamer on March 11, 2023, 06:21:52 PMGod is love; if you have known love, you have known God. Just like the force of gravity works upon us all without any regard for our beliefs, so is God.





Edited to correct the word sabotage because auto-correct isn't always correct..

Poor ole omnipotent god. Full of love, but kills everyone because he won't show them his love. Kinda like being the greatest baker in the universe...tells everyone his bread is da bomb, but won't supply any to anyone, then kills them all for not believing it. On the bright side, no one will confuse you for someone who has rational thought.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust