Sins of Child Sexual Abuse and the Gays

Started by Dreamer, February 27, 2023, 11:33:06 AM

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Dreamer

Quote from: aitm on March 04, 2023, 04:16:19 PMAh, In the OP you take great pains to identify yourself as a Christian, and now you admit....meh, I follow some of it, the rest is pretty wishy washy...just like jesus was going to say....someday.


I've not admitted any such thing. I follow Jesus' teachings, which are in opposition to a number of church practices. Therefore, heretical.

Jesus had major issues with many religious leaders of the day and church practices.

But if you're saying that I don't follow Jewish law, you're right! I don't live and die by the law. God cares about what's in my heart, more than what's on my body or what's in my stomach... Or someone's butt, for that matter....

My job is as simple and as complex as loving. There's always a path forward, in alignment with Christ. That's what I am concerned with-not following lists of rules that, at the very least, are only sometimes literal, and at the most, are never literal...

I follow the guide that Jesus gave several times, about loving God and likewise loving others as ourselves. This is why I call myself a Christian because I endeavor to be a Little Christ.
<br /><br />Individually, we are one drop.  Together, we are an ocean.<br /><br />

aitm

Quote from: Dreamer on March 04, 2023, 05:14:13 PMI've not admitted any such thing. I follow Jesus' teachings, which are in opposition to a number of church practices. Therefore, heretical.

Jesus had major issues with many religious leaders of the day and church practices.

But if you're saying that I don't follow Jewish law, you're right! I don't live and die by the law. God cares about what's in my heart, more than what's on my body or what's in my stomach... Or someone's butt, for that matter....

My job is as simple and as complex as loving. There's always a path forward, in alignment with Christ. That's what I am concerned with-not following lists of rules that, at the very least, are only sometimes literal, and at the most, are never literal...

I follow the guide that Jesus gave several times, about loving God and likewise loving others as ourselves. This is why I call myself a Christian because I endeavor to be a Little Christ.


Oh come on....9th paragraph of your OP, not surprised you already " forgot". And by the bay...no where in the babble does god suggest he cares about what is in your" heart", now you're just embarrassing yourself. God wrote his laws. Period. Jesus proclaimed the laws of the prophet will not be abolished or altered by a "dot or tittle". For Christ sake if you want to pretend to be a nut job at least read the recipe. Stop calling yourself a Christian at least...say you're a Cheeto Jesus kinda follower except for all the...you know..rules. Then people will understand yer just a wack job.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Dreamer

Quote from: aitm on March 04, 2023, 08:50:46 PMAnd by the bay...no where in the babble does god suggest he cares about what is in your" heart", now you're just embarrassing yourself.

First of all, I had just gotten that Down By the Bay song out of my head, so thanks for that.

As well, I was once again drawing specifically upon the Bible:

But the Lord said to Samuel, "Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The Lord does not look at the things people look at. People look at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart." 1 Samuel 16:7

Walking in faith, seeking to have a pure heart--that is indeed Biblical. Besides that Christ says clearly that all the Law and Prophets depend upon loving God and loving others, there's also this from Galatians 3. It's lengthy, and in line with my own ruminations and beliefs I have shared, that you call me a Cheeto Xian for...:

Tell me this one thing: did you receive God's Spirit by doing what the Law requires or by hearing the gospel and believing it? How can you be so foolish! You began by God's Spirit; do you now want to finish by your own power? Did all your experience mean nothing at all? Surely it meant something! Does God give you the Spirit and work miracles among you because you do what the Law requires or because you hear the gospel and believe it?

Consider the experience of Abraham; as the scripture says, "He believed God, and because of his faith God accepted him as righteous." You should realize, then, that the real descendants of Abraham are the people who have faith. The scripture predicted that God would put the Gentiles right with himself through faith. And so the scripture announced the Good News to Abraham: "Through you God will bless all people." Abraham believed and was blessed; so all who believe are blessed as he was.

Those who depend on obeying the Law live under a curse. For the scripture says, "Whoever does not always obey everything that is written in the book of the Law is under God's curse!" Now, it is clear that no one is put right with God by means of the Law, because the scripture says, "Only the person who is put right with God through faith shall live." But the Law has nothing to do with faith. Instead, as the scripture says, "Whoever does everything the Law requires will live."

But by becoming a curse for us Christ has redeemed us from the curse that the Law brings

...
<br /><br />Individually, we are one drop.  Together, we are an ocean.<br /><br />

Dreamer

Quote from: aitm on March 04, 2023, 08:50:46 PMOh come on....9th paragraph of your OP, not surprised you already " forgot".

If you knew me in real life, you'd be less surprised that I forgot something... So, I tried to refresh myself, but still do not see what you're referring to. So, I don't think I actually forgot this one, in reality or 'reality.' You're welcome to point out where I am not in line with following Christ. You're welcome to also point out where I deviate from church doctrine, sure, but I am not concerned with being in accordance with others. Right is right no matter how few do it, and wrong is wrong no matter how many are doing it. There's a much better Quaker quote about that, but the sentiment is the same: Right and wrong do not rely on followers' choices.
<br /><br />Individually, we are one drop.  Together, we are an ocean.<br /><br />

Dreamer

Quote from: Blackleaf on March 02, 2023, 03:57:54 PMYou're better off just saying that the people who wrote the Bible were just ordinary people with their own biases (...)

I've said that before (IRL; I don't think on here). Yes, the people who wrote the Bible were ordinary people with their own biases, acting upon spiritual guidance. They were divinely inspired by God, but they were still just normal folks.

I am aware of the Nicean Councils, the persecution of Christians using texts not approved by the 'Church,' etc. This created a skewed view that certainly affects how Christians function today. Attacking homosexuals for misdeeds pointed out about leaders of the Church was escapist gold for the immoral teachers. I'm pretty sure it was deliberate, to transfer the hatred for such a horrid act, onto a smaller, oft marginalized, group of people (Let's forget about the pedophile leaders in the church using their positions of trust and focus on the real problem... Butt sex!)

People can be divinely inspired, but they will still be rooted in their experiences, their vantage points, their pieces of the puzzle, their ignorance, their doubts, their understanding... The idea that the Bible is the inerrant word of God is a human idea, not from the Word itself... Besides the Bible shares, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." God still speaks to us, today, even now. To us ordinary people, filled with our own biases, faults, weaknesses.
<br /><br />Individually, we are one drop.  Together, we are an ocean.<br /><br />

Dreamer

God speaks to us all. Everyone reading this. Jew, Christian, atheist--God can and does reach out to us all. But, we can ignore it, reject it, and miss it entirely..

I'm receptive to God's guidance and instruction in my life, and I work to cultivate stillness and silence to help in that capacity. I seek out God in Scriptures, books, other people. I'm therefore unlikely to ignore or reject God's guidance in my life.

I don't think it's a requirement, though, to be searching in order to directly experience God. I think of Saul/Paul who was all for arresting and murdering Christians, yet he encountered God on his journey of persecution, and he was changed.

It's not about following the Law, it's not even about holiness or goodness. I am freed in Christ. I do not have my past as an albatross about my neck, nor do I have fear of the future. I have wholeness and completeness, relationship, a wellspring of love and unity, that is perpetually available to me.
<br /><br />Individually, we are one drop.  Together, we are an ocean.<br /><br />

Mike Cl

Bugs Bunny speaks to me and through me.  And he speaks to you, if you would only listen.  He is the driver of the universe and all that he created is good.  He has freed me from the material world and shown me the great carrot!  Love one another and share your carrots.  Ah, what's up doc....................
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

aitm

Indeed, god speaks to everyone, including his soldiers commanded to murder everyone but take the young girls to enslave and rape as they wish. Spread your paisley blanket over the pile of shit you wish to hide from, but the smell is still there. How do you ignore that? Maybe coke up the nose...who knows?
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Dreamer

Quote from: aitm on March 05, 2023, 05:34:27 PMIndeed, god speaks to everyone, including his soldiers commanded to murder everyone but take the young girls to enslave and rape as they wish. Spread your paisley blanket over the pile of shit you wish to hide from, but the smell is still there. How do you ignore that? Maybe coke up the nose...who knows?

You're really attached to this idea that the Bible is how you perceive it. Almost as rigid as the Christians who believe we lived with the dinosaurs, based somehow on the Bible. What makes you the authority, I wonder?

I'd mention again how it's not literal, but that's much harder to grapple with, eh?
<br /><br />Individually, we are one drop.  Together, we are an ocean.<br /><br />

Blackleaf

Quote from: Dreamer on March 05, 2023, 10:10:00 PMYou're really attached to this idea that the Bible is how you perceive it. Almost as rigid as the Christians who believe we lived with the dinosaurs, based somehow on the Bible. What makes you the authority, I wonder?

I'd mention again how it's not literal, but that's much harder to grapple with, eh?

Is it totally allegorical, or is there history to it?
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville--

aitm

One doesn't need to be an authority on the babble. One only needs to read it. Either it is the word of god or not. You use parts that you claim ensure that god is love and ignore all the rest about his laws given as HIS LAWS. What makes you think you can ignore the entirety of the babble except snippets you present as flowers and kittens? Where does god claim his laws are literal? Point out the verse where god say these laws are only suggestions? Where? Where does god, in the Old Testament claim is is about love and not vengeance and jealousy? God claims he is a jealous and vengeful god. And proves it with his orders to kill innocent people, despite your unsubstantiated and quite bat-shit crazy story that the soldiers were getting VD from the women they raped and therefore had the right to kill them? Jesus, that's some fucked up Nazi style thinking there. Where does it say that? God ordered the enslavement and rape of children, period. Ever read the latter part of Leviticus where he gives a hundred different ways to sacrifice animals for "sins? It's bat shit crazy, like the rest of the bat shit crazy book. But you...hell you look at the title and proclaim god is love but never examine the contents. Did you get you profound beliefs from coloring books?
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Dreamer

You're making things up that aren't there. I've shared the verses about that, yet you can't yield that your understanding was wrong? Your insults are ironic, and, as usual, what we say about others has far more to do with ourselves than anyone else.
<br /><br />Individually, we are one drop.  Together, we are an ocean.<br /><br />

Dreamer

Matthew 13:34

"All these things spoke Jesus unto the multitudes in parables, and without a parable spake he not unto them."
<br /><br />Individually, we are one drop.  Together, we are an ocean.<br /><br />

Dreamer

"The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables so that,

"'they may be ever seeing but never perceiving,
    and ever hearing but never understanding;
otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!'"
<br /><br />Individually, we are one drop.  Together, we are an ocean.<br /><br />

Dreamer

Quote from: Blackleaf on March 05, 2023, 11:02:21 PMIs it totally allegorical, or is there history to it?

Like most deeper writings, history is of course referenced.
<br /><br />Individually, we are one drop.  Together, we are an ocean.<br /><br />