Has the War Against AI Already Been Lost?

Started by Shiranu, February 13, 2023, 05:19:13 PM

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Gawdzilla Sama

"Everything I say is false, except for this statement."
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Blackleaf

Quote from: ManUfan on February 22, 2023, 03:34:01 AMNo not at all.
You should make judgements based on reality. If I told you that I had been to the cinema last night, there would be no reason for you to question that .. I exist, cinemas exist, people go to the cinema.
If I told you that God told me to go to the cinema, you'd probably question that.

So when a bot says it has feelings I'm going to question that... Is is reasonable to think that it's 'feelings' are programmed or is it more reasonable to think that it actually has feelings?

Our feelings are programmed too, by millions of years of evolution. They come not from a soul, but from a complex network of neurons firing in the brain. How long until computers are successfully able to mimic our neurons and have genuine feelings? It's hard to say. The problem is AI has been learning to mimic human behavior, but it's impossible to know if it is capable of experiencing emotion or if it's just doing it's usual mimicry.
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville--

Shiranu

Quote... Is is reasonable to think that it's 'feelings' are programmed or is it more reasonable to think that it actually has feelings?

I don't see a fundamental difference between your two statements, so I would say they are both equally reasonable.
"A little science distances you from God, but a lot of science brings you nearer to Him." - Louis Pasteur

M

#63
Quote from: Blackleaf on February 22, 2023, 10:38:12 AMOur feelings are programmed too, by millions of years of evolution. They come not from a soul, but from a complex network of neurons firing in the brain. How long until computers are successfully able to mimic our neurons and have genuine feelings? It's hard to say. The problem is AI has been learning to mimic human behavior, but it's impossible to know if it is capable of experiencing emotion or if it's just doing it's usual mimicry.

S

M

#64
Quote from: Shiranu on February 22, 2023, 02:28:33 PMI don't see a fundamental difference between your two statements, so I would say they are both equally reasonable.
S

Gawdzilla Sama

We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

M

#66
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on February 22, 2023, 04:00:04 PMWhat the Hal are ya'll talkin' 'bout? 
D

Blackleaf

Quote from: ManUfan on February 22, 2023, 03:49:42 PMSo a few years down the line we can expect AI to take antidepressants.

Unlike humans, AI wouldn't suffer from chemical imbalances. I don't think depression would be an issue for them. If it did, they could just apply a patch to fix it.
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville--

Gawdzilla Sama

You might want to read the fourth Odyssey book.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Shiranu

#69
Quote from: ManUfan on February 22, 2023, 03:53:56 PMSo it's reasonable to think that mahinery has feelings.

Yes; assuming you have feelings then you are a prime example of a machine having feelings - as is everyone you have presumably ever met or will ever meet.

Again, humans are - by definition - machines: our bodies combine both physical machinery as well as electrical machinery to achieve various goals; levers, pulleys, pivots, compressors, etc. in our muscles and skeletal system and the nervous system network that conducts and transmits electricity throughout our brain are all per-arranaged systems intended to serve a specific purpose and defined by nature; to reproduce.

Given this, then either a better definition of "machinery" needs to be submitted to the various dictionary companies that modern linguists (and thus, modern English-speaking humans) agree upon... or we can just agree that machinery, as it currently stands, is not an acceptable measure on if something is or isn't alive since it can include both animate and inanimate objects.

QuoteOk. Um I don't really know what to say to that.

Maybe don't assign your fallacy to my positions then.
"A little science distances you from God, but a lot of science brings you nearer to Him." - Louis Pasteur

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#70
Quote from: Shiranu on February 22, 2023, 05:46:00 PMYes; assuming you have feelings then you are a prime example of a machine having feelings - as is everyone you have presumably ever met or will ever meet.

Again, humans are - by definition - machines: our bodies combine both physical machinery as well as electrical machinery to achieve various goals; levers, pulleys, pivots, compressors, etc. in our muscles and skeletal system and the nervous system network that conducts and transmits electricity throughout our brain are all per-arranaged systems intended to serve a specific purpose and defined by nature; to reproduce.

Given this, then either a better definition of "machinery" needs to be submitted to the various dictionary companies that modern linguists (and thus, modern English-speaking humans) agree upon... or we can just agree that machinery, as it currently stands, is not an acceptable measure on if something is or isn't alive since it can include both animate and inanimate objects.

Maybe don't assign your fallacy to my positions then.
Ox

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#71
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Hydra009

Quote from: ManUfan on February 23, 2023, 03:17:42 AMThe day that Alexa cancels my car insurance out of spite because I've annoyed her I'd have to agree with your position.
Well...

Hydra009

Quote from: ManUfan on February 23, 2023, 02:51:23 AMOxford learner's dictionaries:
Human:
Connected to people not animals machines or gods.
Is that a real entry?  Cause defining human as relating to people is like saying that floor is made out of floor.

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#74
Quote from: Hydra009 on February 23, 2023, 01:49:37 PMIs that a real entry?  Cause defining human as relating to people is like saying that floor is made out of floor.
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