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Started by Dreamer, January 19, 2023, 11:20:41 PM

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Dreamer

Hi guys!

Some of you may remember me.  I've had a complicated relationship with God, Christianity, the Bible. I even was solidly atheist for some years before ascribing to some quasi-hippie/agnostic/seeker position. I've always hungered for T/truth.

I began attending a Bethel AME Church years ago, the Sunday following a horrific mass shooting at a black church. I began studying the Bible again, now examining the languages and changes over the years.

And then she preached the last sermon I would hear there. She spoke for an hour on "sexual sin," homosexuality, the *gasp* gays!

I couldn't listen to that lie anymore. That stupid, hateful drumbeat and ax grinding that wasn't even supported by the Bible..

I sulked at home on Sundays for a few months before trying a new church... Or, rather, a Meeting. Ah, the Quakers! The Friends! I had been told they were dead-- and anyway they were just like the Amish (Like a number of things I was taught in school, these two 'facts' proved to be untrue...)

My church (Meeting!) is kinda a badass black sheep. We were kicked out of our group of meetings because we declared that homosexuality isn't a sin (some willingly joined in the exile, too). It was a rather big schism in the Quaker world. That was before I joined, and it's part of WHY I joined.

I've been a 'Convinced Friend' for several years now. It's amazing seeing God within the world so  readily.

So, hello from a former atheist and former former Christian -- and forever a Dreamer.

<br /><br />Individually, we are one drop.  Together, we are an ocean.<br /><br />

Mr.Obvious

Welcome to our little band of heathens.

Can i ask you what convinced you back to christianity? What about the whole jesus-mythos drew you in and made you think: 'oh yeah, that makes sense i guess there is a gos. A christian onr at that?'
"If we have to go down, we go down together!"
- Your mum, last night, requesting 69.

Atheist Mantis does not pray.

Dark Lightning


Unbeliever

#3
Hi Dreamer!
I too hungered for T/truth,  until I found it, or at least what satisfied my hunger. I can't say I've got the whole capital "T" truth, but I at least know enough so that I no longer fear death. And that's a very long way in the right direction.

I am curious,though, about what prompted you to come here. What are you expecting to gain here? I do hope you enjoy your time with us, though.
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

aitm

It is indeed much easier to believe in a god if you get to define what he is.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Dreamer

Quote from: Mr.Obvious on January 20, 2023, 04:29:18 AMWelcome to our little band of heathens.

Can i ask you what convinced you back to christianity? What about the whole jesus-mythos drew you in and made you think: 'oh yeah, that makes sense i guess there is a gos. A christian onr at that?'

I'm okay with mysteries. I walk in faith, guided by that Light in all of us.

I think all deeper truths point to the same thing--and the Christian God is the same as Allah, as Brahman, certainly Yahweh... The distinction is in the eye of the beholder, in our varied histories, languages, viewpoints....


Specifically, the story of Jesus is powerful and inspiring. He was a rebel. Going against the authorities--not just the spiritual and religious but also the social and government entities of the day. And not just teaching peace but even healing a man who came to take him away to death, when that man was injured by one of Jesus' friends.

It's not something that I sat down and considered in a critical manner. It's not the same as considering whether recycling is truly beneficial, weighing evidence and conflicting information (I recycle aluminum cans, but not paper. But I think that's getting off-topic...)

I'm more concerned with how I ought to live my life and govern myself.

<br /><br />Individually, we are one drop.  Together, we are an ocean.<br /><br />

Dreamer

Quote from: Unbeliever on January 20, 2023, 11:31:23 AMHi Dreamer!
I too hungered for T/truth,  until I found it, or at least what satisfied my hunger. I can't say I've got the whole capital "T" truth, but I at least know enough so that I no longer fear death. And that's a very long way in the right direction.


I still fear death sometimes, the enormity and eternity of it, the mystery.

The hunger and thirsting for truth is important. I am wary of anyone claiming to know the whole Truth. I don't think we can know Truth alone; connection is required. I think I'd feel a keen sense of loss if I discovered one day that I no longer had that desire, to know more and be more.

Quote from: Unbeliever on January 20, 2023, 11:31:23 AMI am curious,though, about what prompted you to come here. What are you expecting to gain here? I do hope you enjoy your time with us, though.


I saw a bad horror movie and thought of someone from here, and I wandered back. So, PlutoTV prompted me here.

I decided to post because I might enjoy a debate or two.

I enjoy seeing my blind spots. I guess I'm still a bit of a masochist in that I seek regular doses of genuine cognitive dissonance. Sitting in two contradictory truths, being still in the chaos.
<br /><br />Individually, we are one drop.  Together, we are an ocean.<br /><br />

Dreamer

Quote from: aitm on January 20, 2023, 08:43:45 PMIt is indeed much easier to believe in a god if you get to define what he is.

Indeed. God is love is both a simple and complicated definition.

This inspires me to ask the children at Meeting, to define God.

Also curious what the adults would say, though they're largely academics and know lots of lovely words they can use without actually saying much...

As an aside, a number of Friends where I attend will also pray to Mother God and refer to God as She or They, not just always He.
<br /><br />Individually, we are one drop.  Together, we are an ocean.<br /><br />

Gawdzilla Sama

Quote from: Dreamer on January 21, 2023, 08:33:05 PMI think all deeper truths point to the same thing--and the Christian God is the same as Allah, as Brahman, certainly Yahweh... The distinction is in the eye of the beholder, in our varied histories, languages, viewpoints....

Yeah, they're all bullshit.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Mike Cl

Quote from: Dreamer on January 21, 2023, 08:33:05 PMI'm more concerned with how I ought to live my life and govern myself.


Yeah, me too.  But I don't need a god to tell me how to do that.  Especially considering that god (in any and every language and culture) is a fiction created by people to control other people.  And considering that within each culture's god that god is not static or the same--all can be (and are) interpreted to please the person picking and choosing who they want that god to be. 

What leads you to believe (since you don't seem to like thinking--I do understand that tho, thinking is such a waste of time and effort) Jesus (of the bible) is not a fiction?
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

Dreamer

Quote from: Mike Cl on January 21, 2023, 11:05:14 PMWhat leads you to believe Jesus (of the bible) is not a fiction?

The Bible isn't a compilation of facts, and Christians (+ others) who use it as a science or history book miss out on the true implications. Parables and stories are used throughout, and the juxtaposition between those and your own life, is where the fruit is.
<br /><br />Individually, we are one drop.  Together, we are an ocean.<br /><br />

Dreamer

<br /><br />Individually, we are one drop.  Together, we are an ocean.<br /><br />

Blackleaf

Greetings. Not sure if I was here last time you were. Either way, welcome back.

I'm of the opinion that it's in atheists' best interests to work with reasonable and unbigoted theists. As long as your religion isn't causing any harm, there's no reason we can't coexist. Unlike Conservative Christians and Muslims who want to beat everyone else into submission.

Doesn't mean we can't disagree, though.
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville--

Shiranu

Quite a fan of the Quakers - one of the groups that have really fought hard throughout American history for equal rights and tolerance.

A group American anti-atheists could learn a lot from.
"A little science distances you from God, but a lot of science brings you nearer to Him." - Louis Pasteur

aitm

Quote from: Dreamer on January 21, 2023, 08:54:47 PMIndeed. God is love is both a simple and complicated definition.

This inspires me to ask the children at Meeting, to define God.

Also curious what the adults would say, though they're largely academics and know lots of lovely words they can use without actually saying much...

As an aside, a number of Friends where I attend will also pray to Mother God and refer to God as She or They, not just always He.
Again, if you are allowed to define god as, "not biblical but kinda biblical, except for the parts that are disagreeable, then the real spirit of god is nothing more than the original concept. Let's make up shit and see what sticks......speaking of what sticks....why is your god so flummoxed by a woman's menstrual cycle that he himself created? Your gods a moron.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust