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Some Bulls$#@

Started by Absurd Atheist, August 30, 2016, 09:58:48 AM

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Absurd Atheist

The final argument present by some guy named "Apostle Paul" who 'quote' believes everything the Bible says is true. We were discussing (among other things) the irregularities between an omniscient God and one who constantly has to fix his mistakes, and the notion that an all-knowing God creates and allows evil to exist to test his 'creation'.

"God does not know everything that will happen. He does not need to know. He uses his foreknowledge selectively according to his purpose. What is the meaning of the word "test" if He already knew what will happen back in Eden? It does not make sense."

Thoughts?
"To have faith is to lose your mind and to win God."
-The Sickness unto Death - 1849

Hydra009

Quote from: Absurd Atheist on August 30, 2016, 09:58:48 AM"God does not know everything that will happen. He does not need to know. He uses his foreknowledge selectively according to his purpose.
Ha!  Reminds me of Mister Deity.  He often turns off his omniscience.  It's pretty wild that the parody isn't far from what some people actually believe.

stromboli

Quote from: Absurd Atheist on August 30, 2016, 09:58:48 AM
The final argument present by some guy named "Apostle Paul" who 'quote' believes everything the Bible says is true. We were discussing (among other things) the irregularities between an omniscient God and one who constantly has to fix his mistakes, and the notion that an all-knowing God creates and allows evil to exist to test his 'creation'.

"God does not know everything that will happen. He does not need to know. He uses his foreknowledge selectively according to his purpose. What is the meaning of the word "test" if He already knew what will happen back in Eden? It does not make sense."

Thoughts?

Omniscient:

having complete or unlimited knowledge, awareness, or understanding; perceiving all things. ... The omniscient, omnipotent, and infinite Deity, of what can he be jealous? ... As they certainly are omnipotent, and profess to be omniscient, it is only to be supposed that they should be ...



QuoteGod is Omniscient â€" The New Testament Evidence

“Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out!” (Romans 11:33).

“Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account” (Hebrews 4:13).

“Indeed, the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Don’t be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows” (Luke 12:7).

“Whenever our hearts condemn us. For God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything” (1 John 3:20).

“Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from the will of your Father. And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered” (Matthew 10:29-30).

http://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/God,-All-Knowing

138 verses on omniscience

http://www.equip.org/perspectives/omniscience-does-god-know-all-things/

QuoteOMNISCIENCE OF GOD- God Knows Everything

The Bible repeatedly tells us that God knows everything. His knowledge, in fact, is “perfect [Job 37:16] and is “beyond measure” [Psa. 147:5]. He sees every move we make, He knows the innermost thoughts of our hearts and He even knows what we are going to say before we say it [1 Sam. 16:7; 1 Chron. 28:9; Psa. 139:1-6; Jer. 17:10; Heb. 4:12-13]. Unlike the false gods of our time, the Lord knows everything: Even what’s going to happen in the future [Isa. 41:21-24; 42:9; 44:7]. Jesus, interestingly enough, also tells us that our heavenly Father numbers the very hairs on our head. By the way, it’s interesting to note that God actually revealed to Isaiah the name of Cyrus even before he was actually born â€" in fact, one century before he was born. Cyrus, of course, was the king who returned the Jews to their homeland after the Babylonian exile [Isa. 44:28-45:1].

I think that about covers it.

SGOS

Quote from: Absurd Atheist on August 30, 2016, 09:58:48 AM
What is the meaning of the word "test" if He already knew what will happen back in Eden? It does not make sense."

Thoughts?

It doesn't make sense only if you believe God exists.  However, the senselessness can be waved away through the use of various combinations of fallacy.  If God doesn't exist, then there is nothing to make sense of, and the problem becomes irrelevant. 

The best explanation for the contradiction is that God is an illogical construct fabricated by men.  And that explanation is not challenged  by any testable observations of our environment.  It is the simplest explanation that I can come up with that does not require fallacies to fix.

stromboli

There are inherent contradictions in the concept of omniscience. If god knows all and knows the future and knows everything we do, the concept of free will goes right out the window. Prophecy of the Bible in Revelations gives a relatively sketchy account of future events, but gives them nonetheless. To say god doesn't know the future would indicate prophecy is false. If you claim any prophecy of future events is allegory or metaphor then you throw the inerrant word of god and bible literacy out the window.

Gog and Magog and the 7 year Tribulation are all pretty carved in stone. Gog and Magog is seldom mentioned in discussions, but it is laid out in Ezekiel 38 and 39 and also is mentioned in Revelations- Rev. 20:7-9. and is still touted as a future event, even though there are people that claim the Israeli 6 day war fulfills that, which is silly.

Baruch

Omniscience is a Greek concept, grafted onto Biblical literature, one of theology's many failures.  Greek thought and Jewish thought of that time, simply didn't mix well.  Greek speaking Jews, the Hellenizers, were guilty of this mess, out of their schizophrenia.  This happens today with Third World students fresh off the village, going to Paris for college.  The transition is too wrenching, so they end up schizoid.  This is why most real terrorists are of this type, then and now.  The Apostle Paul is a good example, he can't decide if he is Roman or Jewish.  The two are incompatible.  Constantine solved this, he invented a burlesque of Pauline religion, and gave it the original name.  NT religion is pacifist like Gandhi ... but this wouldn't work for Constantine's Christian legions.

G-d is a very human concept, with many human characteristics in consequence ... the case of G-d not knowing where Adam and Eve were ... as a prime example right in Genesis.  The Greek god of Plato and Aristotle, the god that the Greek gentile Christians tried to graft onto NT interpretation ... is a whole different cat.  You have to skin Plato and Aristotle to follow this ... if one has the patience to analyze an intellectual car wreck.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Absurd Atheist

Quote from: stromboli on August 30, 2016, 10:51:07 AM
Omniscient:

having complete or unlimited knowledge, awareness, or understanding; perceiving all things. ... The omniscient, omnipotent, and infinite Deity, of what can he be jealous? ... As they certainly are omnipotent, and profess to be omniscient, it is only to be supposed that they should be ...



http://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/God,-All-Knowing

138 verses on omniscience

http://www.equip.org/perspectives/omniscience-does-god-know-all-things/

I think that about covers it.

Lmao, he left now but I called him out on his blasphemous statements. Should've hit him with more verses professing his lord omniscience.
"To have faith is to lose your mind and to win God."
-The Sickness unto Death - 1849

Absurd Atheist

Quote from: stromboli on August 30, 2016, 11:25:22 AM
There are inherent contradictions in the concept of omniscience. If god knows all and knows the future and knows everything we do, the concept of free will goes right out the window. Prophecy of the Bible in Revelations gives a relatively sketchy account of future events, but gives them nonetheless. To say god doesn't know the future would indicate prophecy is false. If you claim any prophecy of future events is allegory or metaphor then you throw the inerrant word of god and bible literacy out the window.

Gog and Magog and the 7 year Tribulation are all pretty carved in stone. Gog and Magog is seldom mentioned in discussions, but it is laid out in Ezekiel 38 and 39 and also is mentioned in Revelations- Rev. 20:7-9. and is still touted as a future event, even though there are people that claim the Israeli 6 day war fulfills that, which is silly.

Another problem is the idea of selective omnipotence, that somehow he chooses what future he wants to see, but can see the future beyond the future he chose not to see...

Like he chose not to see Eve eating the apple, yet he saw the future of the Earth in which Eve ate the apple. Or did he not know anything that would happen beyond the Graden of Eden? Then how exactly is he all knowing? Just brings up a whole lot of nonsensical reasoning to try and piece together his logic.
"To have faith is to lose your mind and to win God."
-The Sickness unto Death - 1849