Souls, the Afterlife and God: Imaginary Possibility, the Ultimate What-If

Started by Absurd Atheist, August 21, 2016, 09:21:29 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Absurd Atheist

Hello

Tonight I'd like to touch on a topic of Imaginary Possibilities. Put simply, this is any idea that at the very least seems possible simply because you can imagine it could be possible but remains unfalsifiable. It's important to note that this doesn't mean these things are impossible, simply that they are only percieved possible because people can imagine them in reality.

These include things like: Utopia, Illuminati, UFOs, Atlantis, Martial Art Vigilantes, Alternate Dimensions, Virtual Reality, Supernatural (in general), Radical Politics, etc.

Sometimes people like to imagine a concept and claim it could be true because it's essentially the ultimate What If and difficult to disprove even when both parties now it's inaccurate. For example I personally believe utopias may be possible in the distant future but this is nothing more than an imaginary possibility. People claim aliens have, do or will influence humankind or that a secret cabal of powerful individuals controls all events in the world. Ideas like how every action or choice creates a parrallel dimension or that perhaps that our entire existences are really virtual realities created in our mind.

I believe Souls, the Afterlife and God all fall under this category as something that people can imagine could be true and thus believe they're possible.

I don't want to make this too long, but do you think this is accurate?
"To have faith is to lose your mind and to win God."
-The Sickness unto Death - 1849

Mike Cl

This is pretty easy for me.  If there is a shred of evidence for something, then it is possible.  If there is not even a shred, the it is not possible.  So, Santa, Pecos Bill, Bugs Bunny, ghosts, spirits (that one can't drink), god, jesus---and on and on.  No evidence at all--not possible.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

stromboli

The concept of souls is derived from the fact that to be in the afterlife, some part of you has to remain after death. The afterlife is the candy that lures the children into belief- you had a shitty life here, it will be glorious after you die. And god has to exist in that same mindset because somebody has to be running the show. God is in every respect a personification of human ideas, magnified to a supernatural level.

As far as the rest, that is a mixed bag. Alternate dimensions may in fact exist; we don't know yet. Atlantis is based on an account from Critias in Plato's Dialogue of Timaeus. There are in fact islands that were destroyed by volcanic action that could well have been the origin of the myth, including the Canary islands and Thera.

The human imagination is capable of producing boundless ideas, which is why a scientific approach to discovering the truth is so important.

GSOgymrat

One thing about the supernatural is that if a scientific explanation can be found then the phenomena in question is no longer in the category of supernatural. Some beliefs are more probable even if there is no physical evidence. Extraterrestrial intelligent life for example. There is zero evidence of intelligent life outside this planet but lots of smart people believe it exists because of what we understand about how life evolves and mathematical models of the universe. Spirits of dead people trapped in houses or at certain locations is a bit less likely.

Absurd Atheist

Quote from: stromboli on August 21, 2016, 10:14:36 PM
The concept of souls is derived from the fact that to be in the afterlife, some part of you has to remain after death. The afterlife is the candy that lures the children into belief- you had a shitty life here, it will be glorious after you die. And god has to exist in that same mindset because somebody has to be running the show. God is in every respect a personification of human ideas, magnified to a supernatural level.

As far as the rest, that is a mixed bag. Alternate dimensions may in fact exist; we don't know yet. Atlantis is based on an account from Critias in Plato's Dialogue of Timaeus. There are in fact islands that were destroyed by volcanic action that could well have been the origin of the myth, including the Canary islands and Thera.

The human imagination is capable of producing boundless ideas, which is why a scientific approach to discovering the truth is so important.

Precisely the point. These days I've noticed people being opened to a variety of ideas to the extant of absurdity. For example their is some merit for the myth of Atlantis and proposition of other universes. We don't really know. We get the idea of an after life from life, a soul from individuality in this afterlife and God from a more powerful humanoid version of humanity.

But I could easily see someone arguing that we get all these attributes which you say we've given to God, frm God in fact and we're just his imperfect children. It would be easy for a person of faith to imagine such a scenario...
"To have faith is to lose your mind and to win God."
-The Sickness unto Death - 1849

Absurd Atheist

Quote from: GSOgymrat on August 21, 2016, 11:02:56 PM
One thing about the supernatural is that if a scientific explanation can be found then the phenomena in question is no longer in the category of supernatural. Some beliefs are more probable even if there is no physical evidence. Extraterrestrial intelligent life for example. There is zero evidence of intelligent life outside this planet but lots of smart people believe it exists because of what we understand about how life evolves and mathematical models of the universe. Spirits of dead people trapped in houses or at certain locations is a bit less likely.

Exactly. A lot of these things exist on the borderline of reality and fantasy, but our knowledge on ET life has changed greatly from saucer flying green midgets from Mars to fingers crossed for micro-organisms on other planets. Imaginary possibilities come from the mind but may be based in real world merit.

Creepy unexplained noises and happenings could easily be fantasized as an invisible specter that was once human who can't move on after a ghastly death. The supernatural can be imagined as a "maybe" in such the case that evidence may one day be found. Take psychic powers for example. Maybe one day we can modify human intelligence but for years you've had people swearing up and down they could do impossible feats with their mind alone, long before the idea of genetic modification caught wide-scale traction. Some would say the Illuminati has merit or that in some way there's a secret group of people influencing world events.

Many things that hold merit today were once just imaginary possibilities and the argument that one day we'll have answers is precisely what drives many theist in the faith debate.
"To have faith is to lose your mind and to win God."
-The Sickness unto Death - 1849

Absurd Atheist

Quote from: Mike Cl on August 21, 2016, 10:02:02 PM
This is pretty easy for me.  If there is a shred of evidence for something, then it is possible.  If there is not even a shred, the it is not possible.  So, Santa, Pecos Bill, Bugs Bunny, ghosts, spirits (that one can't drink), god, jesus---and on and on.  No evidence at all--not possible.

So are multiple universes and alien life not possible?
"To have faith is to lose your mind and to win God."
-The Sickness unto Death - 1849

The Skeletal Atheist

Quote from: Mike Cl on August 21, 2016, 10:02:02 PM
This is pretty easy for me.  If there is a shred of evidence for something, then it is possible.  If there is not even a shred, the it is not possible.  So, Santa, Pecos Bill, Bugs Bunny, ghosts, spirits (that one can't drink), god, jesus---and on and on.  No evidence at all--not possible.

SANTA IS REAL! How else would you explain the man who entered my room and left with an empty sack?
Some people need to be beaten with a smart stick.

Kein Mehrheit Fur Die Mitleid!

Kein Mitlied F�r Die Mehrheit!

Mike Cl

Quote from: Absurd Atheist on August 21, 2016, 11:29:42 PM
So are multiple universes and alien life not possible?
Multiple universes?  I get lost in the math.  Yeah, I suppose so.  Alien life?  It is not possible--I accept it as pretty much a fact.  Little green men visiting us now?  Probably not.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

Absurd Atheist

Quote from: Mike Cl on August 22, 2016, 02:06:35 AM
Multiple universes?  I get lost in the math.  Yeah, I suppose so.  Alien life?  It is not possible--I accept it as pretty much a fact.  Little green men visiting us now?  Probably not.

We only accept these things as possible or fact because of information we have today. But not to long ago they were predominantly fragments of imagination that reflected aspects our reality. So why are the other things on this list rubbish?

For example, I just met a guy that said "So whatever the Bible says, is what I believe to be true." In his mind such things are facts and will one day be proven so even if today it's highly likely otherwise. Same concept applies to the Illuminati, time travel or the Matrix. I think if you can imagine certaint possibilities, it's because at some point the world might catch up to your fantasy.
"To have faith is to lose your mind and to win God."
-The Sickness unto Death - 1849

Absurd Atheist

Quote from: The Skeletal Atheist on August 21, 2016, 11:43:46 PM
SANTA IS REAL! How else would you explain the man who entered my room and left with an empty sack?

I can't tell if this is supposed to be creepy or not.
"To have faith is to lose your mind and to win God."
-The Sickness unto Death - 1849

Baruch

Human beings are godlings.  Your imagination is real in the universe you are creating for yourself.  Nightmares are real, so are daydreams.  Your notion of reality is too narrow ... like a toothless old man can't imagine steak.

So yes, if you imagine Santa Clause, then Santa Clause is real ... not in a Christian god sense, but in a more pagan sense, a Buddhist sense.  Be careful what you imagine, because it can come back on you when you least expect it.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.