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Tolerance: Muslims Versus Jews

Started by josephpalazzo, October 18, 2015, 05:28:57 AM

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CloneKai

Quote from: pr126 on October 30, 2015, 03:39:00 PM
@ CloneKai

The best book about Muhammad is his biography by Ibn Ishaq: Sirat Rasool Allah.

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Sirat_Rasul_Allah.

Here you find the downloadable .pdf book.


most religious people don't like to read stuffs :32:
especially provided by other people

Mike Cl

Quote from: CloneKai on October 30, 2015, 05:05:12 PM
most religious people don't like to read stuffs :32:
especially provided by other people
Why is that?
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

CloneKai

Quote from: Mike Cl on October 30, 2015, 05:17:41 PM
Why is that?
i would guess they don't want their preconceived notions being challenged

Mike Cl

Quote from: CloneKai on October 30, 2015, 06:01:56 PM
i would guess they don't want their preconceived notions being challenged
Yeah, that's what I have found, too.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

Baruch

Quote from: pr126 on October 30, 2015, 01:45:01 PM
Lying in Islam According to the Quran and hadiths.

according to Islamic Law (Sharia)

Shiranu is a social warrior fond of Islam and Muslims.
His favorite fallacy is Tu Quoque. Because two wrongs always makes one right.

Everyone agrees that two wrongs always makes one right ... because the first wrong is by the Them ... and the second wrong is by Us.  The subject of the aphorism is binary, not singular.  If you exclude all liars from the world, there won't be anyone left.  We are all brothers, because we are all liars (among other characteristics).
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

#440
Quote from: pr126 on October 30, 2015, 03:39:00 PM
@ CloneKai

The best book about Muhammad is his biography by Ibn Ishaq: Sirat Rasool Allah.

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Sirat_Rasul_Allah.

Here you find the downloadable .pdf book.

I found the biography of Muhammad by Karen Armstrong to be good.  It is both scholarly and apolitical.  Modern Salafist material is suspect ... and even the earliest biographies are colored by the need to make Muhammad more than a man, and to satisfy the contemporary politics of the Caliphs.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

aitm

Quote from: Blackleaf on October 30, 2015, 01:24:19 PM
And I don't recall rape ever being authorized in the Torah.


, of course, but the women were still treated with a considerable measure of humanity.

of course it is, the men were instructed to go into the "village" and slaughter everyone except the young women who had "known a man" those they were allowed to "keep" for themselves…..what exactly to you think that means?

well, I have to ask, have you ever actually read the "torah" also generally known as the first five books of the OT? I mean, lets face it, women in the OT are pretty much holes you fuck and then put outside in a tent when they bleed or whom you kill if you don't like them.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Baruch

Correct, ancient writings generally aren't about feminism.  How was Hypatia of Alexandria killed by the Christian monks?  Her antagonist, Cyril, not only promoted Marianism (to support Isis worship) but also got a sainthood out of it.  This is why feminists dismiss all of history, culture and literature prior to feminist writers ... as "dead White men walking".
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

pr126

#443
Baruch wrote:
QuoteI found the biography of Muhammad by Karen Armstrong to be good.
Karen Armstrong is paid by the Saudis to put Islam, Muhammad in the best possible light.
She has earned that money by lying.

Karen Armstrong: The Coherence of Her Incoherence

Cocoa Beware

Quote from: josephpalazzo on October 28, 2015, 03:37:16 PM
Unlikely. Before 1500 CE, Europe was behind China, India, and the Middle East. It was only with the advent of science, and the technological upshot, that Europe became the superpower of those days.

Well, I'll admit I'm being presumptuous anyways. I can't say I genuinely know what I'm talking about, because its been such a long while since I've thought about this idea, and I'm not sure if any general consensus has been made.

Several years ago I heard a very compelling case made by Jared Diamond in his book "Guns, Germs and Steel", which was later made into a television series.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns,_Germs,_and_Steel

QuoteThe book attempts to explain why Eurasian civilizations (including North Africa) have survived and conquered others, while arguing against the idea that Eurasian hegemony is due to any form of Eurasian intellectual, moral, or inherent genetic superiority. Diamond argues that the gaps in power and technology between human societies originate in environmental differences, which are amplified by various positive feedback loops. When cultural or genetic differences have favored Eurasians (for example, written language or the development among Eurasians of resistance to endemic diseases), he asserts that these advantages occurred because of the influence of geography on societies and cultures (for example, by facilitating commerce and trade between different cultures) and were not inherent in the Eurasian genomes.

A few points I found interesting:

Humans have only domesticated a handful of animals, and almost all are native to Eurasia. It meant we had plenty of help working and transporting, as well as a reliable food source (I figure the horse has to be the most important, domesticated in ancient Ukraine, or Sarmatia, or whatever the land was called north of the Black Sea at that time)

Since we worked in close tandem with animals, and with Europe being an integral part of a massive trade network, (in particular the Byzantines I would guess) we developed an immunity to a lot of diseases, which I suppose is an advantage provided you aren't completely wiped out.

It is also suggested that what held countries like China back may have been too much stability strangely enough, while in Europe bitter rivalries and constant war made them desperate to try anything to get an advantage.

aitm

Many a year ago, and I can't remember if this was a subject taught in school, university or something I read because it has been that long, but the "theory" was that the vast percentage of technological and scientific inventions, which influenced every aspect of the culture from with it was part of, was located within the 25th to 55th latitude. The argument being the climate being the main reason for such necessities. The upper latitude presented too many obstacles for extra time to spend on even the idea of inventing as simple existence took up most the time, and the equatorial region food was readily available and rather abundant and no "need" to invent anything. Whereas the temperate zones gave us both needs and time to invest in the idea of inventing.

So supposedly, in the arctic, food freezes thus it doesn't get wasted and there was no need to worry about preserving it, in the equatorial region, you can get what you need when you need it so there is no need to preserve, but in the temperate where food was not as abundant and could not be easily stored had to be processed in different ways to preserve it. Thus, salting, smoking, jerky etc up to refrigeration. Don't remember if it was thoroughly debunked or not. Too many beer ago.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

josephpalazzo

Quote from: Cocoa Beware on October 31, 2015, 07:40:51 AM
Well, I'll admit I'm being presumptuous anyways. I can't say I genuinely know what I'm talking about, because its been such a long while since I've thought about this idea, and I'm not sure if any general consensus has been made.

Several years ago I heard a very compelling case made by Jared Diamond in his book "Guns, Germs and Steel", which was later made into a television series.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns,_Germs,_and_Steel

A few points I found interesting:

Humans have only domesticated a handful of animals, and almost all are native to Eurasia. It meant we had plenty of help working and transporting, as well as a reliable food source (I figure the horse has to be the most important, domesticated in ancient Ukraine, or Sarmatia, or whatever the land was called north of the Black Sea at that time)

Since we worked in close tandem with animals, and with Europe being an integral part of a massive trade network, (in particular the Byzantines I would guess) we developed an immunity to a lot of diseases, which I suppose is an advantage provided you aren't completely wiped out.

It is also suggested that what held countries like China back may have been too much stability strangely enough, while in Europe bitter rivalries and constant war made them desperate to try anything to get an advantage.


My post was not meant to mean that Europeans are superior genetically. Jared Diamond explored in his well-known book as to why Europe was more advanced at some point in times. What we do know is that civilizations are born,shine and then fade. It so happened that science and technology gave Europeans an advantage after 1500's. And this was done in spite of religion. To some, that was bad as Europeans went on to colonize and stifle other civilizations. But that has always happened since homo sapiens left Africa to conquer other lands. Some have difficulties in recognizing that there is really no morality, except the one you believe and you think incorrectly that it should apply universally. But reality says otherwise: those countries/tribes/groups who were in position of imposing their will did just that. Whether that is morally wrong or right is a matter of opinion.   

Baruch

Quote from: pr126 on October 31, 2015, 12:49:38 AM
Baruch wrote:Karen Armstrong is paid by the Saudis to put Islam, Muhammad in the best possible light.
She has earned that money by lying.

Karen Armstrong: The Coherence of Her Incoherence

Is your link a UKIP website?  I also read the article of Watergate (different author, but it seemed John Birch to me).  Seems if the essay were American, it is right out of Rush Limbaugh.  Regardless of what you think of Ms Armstrong's politics or religion (and that would be ad hominem) ... she is a fairly good writer ... and anti-to-your-position ... she is a peacemaker, not a war-maker.  For you, it is Pope Urban 126 at Claremont.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

peacewithoutgod

Quote from: drunkenshoe on October 23, 2015, 06:46:58 PM
Jews who died of disease and starvation are counted among the victims of the Holocaust. That's how the numbers of genocide is calculated. Same with the Armenian Genocide...etc.

I don't get how is that it is suddenly a rule that Mesoamerican Genocide death toll shouldn't be calculated withe same criteria.

You criticize the US as a proud citizen of the former Ottoman Empire, which was so legendary for its violence and government corruption rooted in its culture that it made the last days of Roman power look sensible - fuck you for your rambling, drunken hypocrisy!
There are two types of ideas: fact and non-fact. Ideas which are not falsifiable are non-fact, therefore please don't insist your fantasies of supernatural beings are in any way factual.

Doctrine = not to be questioned = not to be proven = not fact. When you declare your doctrine fact, you lie.