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I'm Catholic, let me have it!

Started by Vercingetorix, March 23, 2014, 01:59:47 PM

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Vercingetorix

Who is telling me where the rabbit whole ends? Couldn't it be the government, or those of the secular mind just as easily as it could be the Catholic Church? I really think we have much more value as constituents/ratings/web traffic, than we do as members of a particular church.

Plu

The government and the church most definately tell you where the rabbit hole ends. Like you say; they think you have more value as many things other than a questioning individual. Those of secular mind can also easily tell you where it ends.

That's why you should always look for people who don't tell you where it ends. They exist, and they are the real teachers. All of the others are to be distrusted at best. They do not have your best interests at heart.

Jason78

Winner of WitchSabrinas Best Advice Award 2012


We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real
tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. -Plato

Johan

Quote from: Vercingetorix on March 23, 2014, 10:22:12 PM
I do not intend to "convert" anyone, believe it or not I'm not THAT naive. I do not believe that I am in possession of any knowledge that isn't readily available to anyone. I do see how, if we have anything to discuss at all that it may be the institution or history of the Church rather than whether or not God exists.
Well you couldn't be more right. You're not going to convince any of us of anything nor are you going to convert us. Therefore the institution and history of the church is about the only thing we could probably discuss. I'm not sure why a person in your position would want to discuss such things but since you brought it up, I'll go ahead and start.

Pedophiles. Your move.
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false and by the rulers as useful

AllPurposeAtheist

Something you perhaps overlooked about 'your god' and 'your church'.. If it is true that the Catholic Church is the one true church and its god the one true god no other thought would have ever been needed. No other church would have been needed and no books need be written. All knowledge would have been automatically installed in our brains at birth. As it turns out the bible,  the original first handwritten edition kept under lock and key and guarded by rabid dogs would have nevrr been reproduced, but it was and your church tried its damnedest to keep it out of the hands of anyone, but the high priests to the extent of torture and murder and now it's such a pile of rubbish and the church full of corruption and... Oh never mind. It's all the one true word of god so never question the church run by pedophiles.
All hail my new signature!

Admit it. You're secretly green with envy.

Poison Tree

Vercingetorix, I'm more than a little bemused by your hand waving about the church's problem's being a result of humans in the church and would like to jump on it before it can become your go-to defense. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't once of the central tenants of your church that the pope, when speaking in  ex cathedra mode, is an infallible conduit to god? This is, we're told to believe, a god who had no problem coming down to earth and talking to Abraham face to face, appearing to heathen kings, violating the free will of Jonah and Saul, killing two people who lied about how much they sold land for or any number of other involvements in the human world. Yet he can't be bothered to tell the Pope, "hey, better get on that whole pedophile thing." or "Oh, by the way, that limbo doesn't actually exist so you may want to stop people from teaching that". An interventionist god would be more than able to prevent or correct any errors in his church with nothing more than his voice from on high--pope or no pope.
"Observe that noses were made to wear spectacles; and so we have spectacles. Legs were visibly instituted to be breeched, and we have breeches" Voltaire�s Candide

AllPurposeAtheist

If I didn't know better I'd assume "our father aka god" is a deadbeat dad, knocked up Mary and skipped town aka the universe aka all of creation. Hardly worthy of worship.
All hail my new signature!

Admit it. You're secretly green with envy.

stromboli

What all of us here have come to understand is that religions are created by men. There have been thousands of them, most now extinct or inactive. Catholicism is a worldwide religion due to no small amount of genocide and violent conquest. There is nothing benign about it. That it denounces birth control in this day and age is directly the cause of much disease and over population in 3rd world countries. It is not a "forward looking, enlightened" organization but a relic of the late Roman Empire.

Think also of what your god has actually accomplished. didn't stop a church in Haiti from collapsing on true Catholic believers, hasn't cured a single disease, turned a river from its course, has not demonstrably healed masses of people or risen the dead. All that man has accomplished was achieved by man. The only thing god has done is demand obedience through a body of men who do, in reality, little real good in the world and continually demand money. They want lots of money.

Vercingetorix

I really regret having to sleep lol. Yes it takes money to run the Church, if that is what we want to discuss then so be it. All I know is that I can stop going to Mass, and never go back. People go to Mass for the last time everyday, people leave mega churches everyday, and it is almost certain that no church official ever knows about it, even though the money, your contributions have stopped. If I went "off the grid" so to speak, and left the secular would, cancelled my cable, power, stopped paying my mortgage and taxes, I would be an FBI top priority. There would be drones looking for me, G-men, debt collectors, etc. The Pope has spoken ex cathredra (infallibly) a total of seven times between 449, and 1950. Nothing any Pope has ever said about condoms, etc. has ever been claimed to be infallible. The existence of pedophile priests is a terrible reason to not go to Mass. The California public school system has a vastly more horrifying sex abuse track record just in it's state than the entire world wide Church has at all, but no one thinks the entire institution should just be scrapped like some do the Church. I don't bemoan the work done to reveal the sex abuse scandal, I just insist on knowing the truth about it. 

Poison Tree

I don't know which one of us that reply was directed at as it seems to have missed the thrust of every comment here.

Quote from: Vercingetorix on March 24, 2014, 01:08:34 PM
The Pope has spoken ex cathredra (infallibly) a total of seven times between 449, and 1950.
Accepting your claim for the sake of argument (and ignoring historical disputes over the range of papal [and more generally catholic] infallibility), why should god only intervene in the running of his church so infrequently? Can you not think of any other times when an infallible ruling from god would have come in handy?
"Observe that noses were made to wear spectacles; and so we have spectacles. Legs were visibly instituted to be breeched, and we have breeches" Voltaire�s Candide

the_antithesis


PickelledEggs

Thanks for answering my question's, V.   :smiley:

Vercingetorix

@poisontree, I think everyone believes now and again, that given omnipotence they could do a better job than God. The problem is that we remain confined to our inferior logic even if we imagine that we are hypothetically omnipotent. Catholics are typically "both, and" minded instead of "either, or" I believe that God is omnipotent, AND that we are fallible humans living in an imperfect world. I believe BOTH of those things are true at the same time.

Vercingetorix

@pickelledeggs, Happy to do it. Sorry if I was as tedious as you thought I would be lol. I just have this "A Catholic priest theorized the Big Bang, for crying out loud!" chip on my shoulder, if I'm brainwashed then it is up to me to earnestly seek the truth, but I'm not stupid.

Jason78

The Catholic church has really had it hard since the Reformation and people found out that the Bible didn't say all the things they said it did.
Winner of WitchSabrinas Best Advice Award 2012


We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real
tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. -Plato