I've been a strong supporter of Bernie Sanders since the beginning, but more and more it looks like Shillary is going to win the primary. Among Sanders supporters, there's this dilemma: do you vote for Clinton (same party) or Trump (same anti-establishment stance) or stay home on election day? And for weeks, I've been arguing that we should support Hillary because Trump has such a reprehensible personality and platform that I'd be a disaster if he were elected President.
But lately, I've been watching a lot of youtube videos of Trump rallies and candid interviews with Trump supporters. And to be honest, they made a really good case for voting for Trump. They explained how he's essentially a political independent who has been unfairly maligned by the establishment, much the same way Sanders has been treated.
His fiery rhetoric is just that - rhetoric. Do you seriously think he actually intends to build a 1,954 mile wall between the US and Mexico? Of course not. Or that he's going to register American muslims or bar foreign Muslims from entering the country? For starters, he retracted this statement almost immediately, not that you'd hear that on the lamestream news. Also, it'd never happen. It's unconstitutional. It's unfeasible. So why all this crazy rhetoric? Purely to attract the conservative base. It was all an act, and it worked masterfully. If he was an honest moderate (who isn't particularly religious to boot), he wouldn't have gotten anywhere.
Based on the entirety of his political speeches, Trump's platform is fairly middle-of-the-road. Not terribly liberal, but not terribly conservative either. He could really help to bridge the seemingly insurmountable gulf between the left and right in this country.
Some people say that Trump is self-centered, egotistical. But candidates have to sell themselves to the public, and few people are more experienced than Trump at creating and selling his image to the public. This is actually a strength, not a weakness.
And speaking of experience, he has no political experience. Yet as the primaries are showing, he has a talent for politics. His lack of experience may actually be a good thing. He hasn't been corrupted by special interests or beholden to party elites, unlike some candidates I could Shillary, I mean name.
And speaking of corrupting influences, the Sarah Palin thing was just a publicity stunt. Something to secure the loyalty of even the looniest wingnut. Don't worry, she won't be vice president.
And some people argue that Trump would stack the Supreme Court with conservatives. You know who I think he'd nominate to the Supreme Court? The best people.
So, as strange as this sounds, I'm planning on voting for Trump and I strongly urge you guys to vote for him also. A Trump presidency would really help get this nation back on track.
Yikes.
Don't get me wrong, most of what you said I've already concluded that much, but... and here's the crux of the matter, the language he has used so far is way off for him to be presidential. It's alright when you need to bring your rivals down a notch or two, but once in the oval office, your language has to be elevated in order to inspire the nation. So far, he hasn't shown that side of his personality. Perhaps it's there, but until I see it, I have to delay that judgment.
I've thought about voting for trump, but much in the same way you think about jumping off a cliff when you're standing on the ledge. You kind of want to just know what it's like to free-fall to your death, watching the wall of rocks speed past you. It would be exhilarating, if it didn't result in not being able to be alive afterwards.
I kind of entertained the thought of Trump as president with the hopes that he would break this country so much that we'd have to start from scratch, which isn't far off from what might happen if he is. On the other hand, I don't want every country to hate us more than they already do.
OH for fucks sake.
Good april fools joke, Hydra... Fuck you. :lol:
Quote from: josephpalazzo on April 01, 2016, 11:50:26 AMDon't get me wrong, most of what you said I've already concluded that much, but... and here's the crux of the matter, the language he has used so far is way off for him to be presidential. It's alright when you need to bring your rivals down a notch or two, but once in the oval office, your language has to be elevated in order to inspire the nation. So far, he hasn't shown that side of his personality. Perhaps it's there, but until I see it, I have to delay that judgment.
Check out his recent speeches. He's really changed his tone. Less hotheaded bravado, more calm and stately.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKOQdcVoRys
Quote from: Hydra009 on April 01, 2016, 11:42:36 AM
I've been a strong supporter of Bernie Sanders since the beginning, but more and more it looks like Shillary is going to win the primary. Among Sanders supporters, there's this dilemma: do you vote for Clinton (same party) or Trump (same anti-establishment stance) or stay home on election day? And for weeks, I've been arguing that we should support Hillary because Trump has such a reprehensible personality and platform that I'd be a disaster if he were elected President.
But lately, I've been watching a lot of youtube videos of Trump rallies and candid interviews with Trump supporters. And to be honest, they made a really good case for voting for Trump. They explained how he's essentially a political independent who has been unfairly maligned by the establishment, much the same way Sanders has been treated.
His fiery rhetoric is just that - rhetoric. Do you seriously think he actually intends to build a 1,954 mile wall between the US and Mexico? Of course not. Or that he's going to register American muslims or bar foreign Muslims from entering the country? For starters, he retracted this statement almost immediately, not that you'd hear that on the lamestream news. Also, it'd never happen. It's unconstitutional. It's unfeasible. So why all this crazy rhetoric? Purely to attract the conservative base. It was all an act, and it worked masterfully. If he was an honest moderate (who isn't particularly religious to boot), he wouldn't have gotten anywhere.
Based on the entirety of his political speeches, Trump's platform is fairly middle-of-the-road. Not terribly liberal, but not terribly conservative either. He could really help to bridge the seemingly insurmountable gulf between the left and right in this country.
Some people say that Trump is self-centered, egotistical. But candidates have to sell themselves to the public, and few people are more experienced than Trump at creating and selling his image to the public. This is actually a strength, not a weakness.
And speaking of experience, he has no political experience. Yet as the primaries are showing, he has a talent for politics. His lack of experience may actually be a good thing. He hasn't been corrupted by special interests or beholden to party elites, unlike some candidates I could Shillary, I mean name.
And speaking of corrupting influences, the Sarah Palin thing was just a publicity stunt. Something to secure the loyalty of even the looniest wingnut. Don't worry, she won't be vice president.
And some people argue that Trump would stack the Supreme Court with conservatives. You know who I think he'd nominate to the Supreme Court? The best people.
So, as strange as this sounds, I'm planning on voting for Trump and I strong urge you guys to vote for him also. A Trump presidency would really help get this nation back on track.
April Fools!!! Good one!!!
I don't know what you guys are talking about. I'm completely serious. Also, it's 3/31 according to my clock.
April's fool... well, who would have thought?!??!
Quote from: Hydra009 on April 01, 2016, 12:54:15 PM
I don't know what you guys are talking about. I'm completely serious. Also, it's 3/31 according to my clock.
you must be using a christian clock.
Quote from: Mike Cl on April 01, 2016, 01:22:41 PM
you must be using a christian clock.
Hydra lives in North Carolina. We're behind the rest of the country.
April Fools I hope???
I still think that Trump's only goal with this run for the White House was to bring down the Republican party from the inside, and he's doing a great job of it. He's showing America and the world just how ignorant, bigoted, hateful and violent the Republican rank and file is.
I'm hoping they'll lose the senate and house in the process of losing the presidential election. How can any sane American vote Republican after all this?
Quote from: Unbeliever on April 01, 2016, 02:53:03 PM
I'm hoping they'll lose the senate and house in the process of losing the presidential election. How can any sane American vote Republican after all this?
This, this and this!!
Yuck it up boys ...
"ignorant, bigoted, hateful and violent" ... that describes many Americans quite well.
An American President is a figurehead, not a genius, not actually in charge of anything. The agencies under the President are in charge of everything, including the President. They will tell any President since 1963 ... what to say and when to say it.
Jumping off a cliff? Falling is OK, as long as you miss the ground ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_OOqqC6Q7o
Quote from: PickelledEggs on April 01, 2016, 12:01:06 PMOH for fucks sake.
Good april fools joke, Hydra... Fuck you. :lol:
I would've gotten away with it, too - if it wasn't for if it weren't for you and Mike. You guys picked up on it pretty fast! I tried so hard to make it sound believable and reasonable enough to not set off any red flags. The funny thing is, I'll say something completely ridiculous and obviously sarcastic and you guys will sometimes take that at face value. But I try come up with a clever lie and you guys spot that a mile away. Argh!
So yeah, I'm not planning on voting for Trump anytime soon. I wasn't kidding about Trump being overly demonized or him using empty rhetoric to pander to the far right. But it doesn't matter much whether he's a sincere lunatic or a sly conniver, that sort of rhetoric really burned a lot of bridges with leftists, including me. I don't hate the guy, at least not like a lot of people in the left hate him, but I could never bring myself to vote for him. If it comes down to him versus almost anyone, my vote is for almost anyone.
tl;dr April Fools, everybody!
QuoteYou know who I think he'd nominate to the Supreme Court? The best people.
I lost it there.
It was pretty good. LOL
Quote from: Hydra009 on April 02, 2016, 02:48:28 AM
I would've gotten away with it, too - if it wasn't for if it weren't for you and Mike. You guys picked up on it pretty fast!
Well, if it's any consolation, you had me fooled. It's just that I didn't know what to say to that post.
I was thinking it was going to be an article about how Trump's candidacy was encouraging more blacks, Hispanics, and Muslims to vote. I skimmed, went to the last sentence expecting some kind of April Fool's reveal, got none, but still dismissed the entire thing as poppycock. I also held out a small sliver that you'd had some sort of neural event like an aneurism that might have drastically altered your thinking, but the spelling was too good. Well done, for ruffling some feathers. :)
I'm glad to be witnessing the historical campaign of Trump. The Drunken Master is laying waste to the Republican Party. In defending itself, it's having to spell out loud and clear its agenda.
I had a for-real dream that Donald Trump was trying to kill me.
Quote from: Mermaid on April 02, 2016, 12:09:01 PM
I had a for-real dream that Donald Trump was trying to kill me.
We all did. Its still going on.
Quote from: Hydra009 on April 02, 2016, 02:48:28 AM
I would've gotten away with it, too - if it wasn't for if it weren't for you and Mike. You guys picked up on it pretty fast! I tried so hard to make it sound believable and reasonable enough to not set off any red flags. The funny thing is, I'll say something completely ridiculous and obviously sarcastic and you guys will sometimes take that at face value. But I try come up with a clever lie and you guys spot that a mile away. Argh!
So yeah, I'm not planning on voting for Trump anytime soon. I wasn't kidding about Trump being overly demonized or him using empty rhetoric to pander to the far right. But it doesn't matter much whether he's a sincere lunatic or a sly conniver, that sort of rhetoric really burned a lot of bridges with leftists, including me. I don't hate the guy, at least not like a lot of people in the left hate him, but I could never bring myself to vote for him. If it comes down to him versus almost anyone, my vote is for almost anyone.
tl;dr April Fools, everybody!
I realized what day it was. You had me for a second though lol
Quote from: Mermaid on April 02, 2016, 12:09:01 PM
I had a for-real dream that Donald Drumpf was trying to kill me.
I am had that with Putin. But he wasn't trying to kill me. He was trying to kill everyone.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on April 02, 2016, 12:53:06 PM
I am had that with Putin. But he wasn't trying to kill me. He was trying to kill everyone.
I don't think that was a dream.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-7ktEQAPFbDI/Vkz2cjSRJtI/AAAAAAAABzE/lYSb7bHVHxE/s1600/votePutinFinal.jpg)
Quote from: gentle_dissident on April 02, 2016, 12:06:03 PM
I'm glad to be witnessing the historical campaign of Trump. The Drunken Master is laying waste to the Republican Party. In defending itself, it's having to spell out loud and clear its agenda.
A couple of years ago, the Republicans were all about, "Marriage is between a man and a woman," and that approach to gay marriage was played over and over. A conservative friend used that argument as well, and I pointed out that this was just another form of discrimination. He denied it, although he offered no support for his denial. "No, no. It's not discrimination," is all he said!
Today (talk about spelling out the Republican agenda loud and clear), the party is actively attempting to pass state laws allowing discrimination against gay people. And sometimes they even openly use the word "discriminate." I never thought I see the day they openly admit that's what the ban on gay marriage was. It seems to me it might be the last anti-gay tactic available.
They would have preferred to ban gay marriage and appear all "goody-goody" about it, while walking around with shiny halos dancing above their heads , but now they are willing to pull out the stops and be openly unsavory. It's petty, mean spirited, and pathetic. Unfortunately, being petty, mean spirited, and pathetic appeals to much of the conservative base.
So, we need to vote on the basis of people's nightmares? I am sympathetic, but I thought y'all were free of hocus pocus.
Quote from: Baruch on April 02, 2016, 05:05:11 PM
So, we need to vote on the basis of people's nightmares? I am sympathetic, but I thought y'all were free of hocus pocus.
What?
I don't buy anyone short of the few loons who drop in every once in awhile who say what a great president trump would be. Any regular on this site backing trump? Nope..sorry. Not buying, joke or not.. I just figured you might have been drunk or high on acid, but a bonafied trumper? Nahhh..
Sometimes I am not very critical of Trump, but don't mistake that for support ;-)
On the other hand, I am neither liberal nor conservative ... I am a-political rather than a-theist.
Quote from: Baruch on April 02, 2016, 08:58:49 PM
I am neither liberal nor conservative ... I am a-political rather than a-theist.
I hope the Spirit World isn't as fusterclucked as ours. If it is, will you be proactive there?
Quote from: gentle_dissident on April 03, 2016, 02:20:21 AM
I hope the Spirit World isn't as fusterclucked as ours. If it is, will you be proactive there?
This is the spirit world. So yes, we are F-ed big time. I am not a paid protestor, to I have no incentive to be politically engaged aside from this forum. Nor am I a billionaire engaged in playing Punch & Judy puppet theater with the masses. If the politicians would promise to leave me alone, I would be sold ... but they never make that particular lie, wonder why? As a wage slave/debt slave ... I am hoping not to be sold as chattel as well ... long live the status quo!
Quote from: Baruch on April 03, 2016, 07:59:20 AM
I am not a paid protestor, to I have no incentive to be politically engaged
Quote from: Baruch on April 03, 2016, 07:59:20 AM
If the politicians would promise to leave me alone, I would be sold
Quote from: Baruch on April 03, 2016, 07:59:20 AM
As a wage slave/debt slave ... I am hoping not to be sold as chattel as well ... long live the status quo!
I honestly cannot tell when you are being serious or sarcastic. I'm starting to build an image in my head of you that may be incorrect. You come across to me as a misanthrope.
Quote from: gentle_dissident on April 03, 2016, 01:15:01 PM
I honestly cannot tell when you are being serious or sarcastic. I'm starting to build an image in my head of you that may be incorrect. You come across to me as a misanthrope.
if you ever watched Mayberry RFD. Barney Fife had a three word response for people like him.
Quote from: gentle_dissident on April 03, 2016, 01:15:01 PM
I honestly cannot tell when you are being serious or sarcastic. I'm starting to build an image in my head of you that may be incorrect. You come across to me as a misanthrope.
Bob and weave ... and they can't hit back ;-) Eleven dimensional chess.
I project a misanthrope ... because that is where the smaller part of my heart is. The larger part is OK, in spite of the disappointments. Since this is mostly a piss and whine forum ... I can Dumpf here ;-) I wouldn't talk like this at all, if it were a cooking blog (not that I bother with those).
I will NEVER become a Trumpanzee!
Quote from: Divina on April 13, 2016, 09:18:40 PM
I will NEVER become a Trumpanzee!
(http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/6-30-2014/9x2beo.gif)
Quote from: Unbeliever on April 01, 2016, 02:53:03 PM
I still think that Trump's only goal with this run for the White House was to bring down the Republican party from the inside, and he's doing a great job of it. He's showing America and the world just how ignorant, bigoted, hateful and violent the Republican rank and file is.
Agreed. Though I'm not so sure their fall will be due to the rest of America. They're fraging each other to the point of a permanently broken family. No one on the outside will have to do anything.
My take on Trump? For a loud mouthed, narcissistic shit throwing monkey......................he's not that bad! Do you know WHY he's running as a GOP candidate? The Dems were too smart to let him trash their party. (as much as it pains me to admit it!).
DT: I'm gonna run for President this year! I'll be the biggest, fastest, bestest, handsomest, stylishest President ever!! If I told you much better I'll be than everyone else; you'd be embarrassed...................so I won't......................I mean; c'mon.................really!
DWS: No you're not! Get the fuck outta here, and go bother those dipshit elephants! (Smacks Don vigorously with a rolled up newspaper).
DT: Yipe! Yipe! Yipe! Yipe! .........................OK, but you'll be sorry!
DWS: Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out, and take your fucking designer pocket square, and rancid looking steaks with you!
I'm gonna go out on a limb, and predict Don will never put that on his resume. :)