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Extraordinary Claims => Religion General Discussion => Other Religions => Topic started by: SkyChief on March 10, 2016, 03:45:12 AM

Title: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
Post by: SkyChief on March 10, 2016, 03:45:12 AM
IMO, the short answer is no.

But apparently there are some Deists who strongly differ with that and consider themselves atheist.

For this discussion, lets stipulate some conventional definitions of terms:

________________________________________________________________________________________

de·ism
ˈdÄ"izÉ™m,ˈdāizÉ™m/
[noun]
Belief in the existence of a supreme being, specifically of a creator who does not intervene in the universe. The term is used chiefly of an intellectual movement of the 17th and 18th centuries that accepted the existence of a creator on the basis of reason but rejected belief in a supernatural deity who interacts with humankind.

________________________________________________________________________________________

a·the·ism
ˈāTHÄ"ËŒizÉ™m/
[noun]
Disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.


________________________________________________________________________________________

Some deists will argue that the "supreme being" which they believe in is actually not (a) god.

I would argue that if looks like a god, walks like a god, and quacks like a god,   ITS A GOD.

And therefore believing in ANY supreme being, spiritual entity, holy creator, etc., does not meet the fundamental qualifying criterion for atheism.



Title: Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
Post by: Baruch on March 10, 2016, 07:19:15 AM
I agree ... see ShoutBox.

Some people would argue that reality is bigger than conventional physics ... but would deny the supernatural.  Some conventional physics would argue that there is nothing beyond physics ... only ignorant lay people think otherwise.  Materialists who color outside the box, might be considered deist, but not accurately.  I would call them flexible materialists.  I am a flexible materialist.  In modern terms, a materialist is someone who only admits atoms exist, and their combinations.  This was all debated 2000 years ago by Lucretius, and before him Epicurus, and before him Democritus and maybe Leucippus.  Also in India.  Epicurus said that gods exist, as super-beings, but not in the Judeo-Christian fashion.  And that unlike mythology, super-beings have nothing to do with lower life forms like humans ... they party-hardy on Mt Olympus.  Epicurus would count as a deist.  Very few back then, would go the logical distance, and say there are no super-beings.  Saying that Alexander or a Roman Emperor wasn't a super-being could get you into trouble.  Jesus fell into this same model, except he was the anti-Alexander, anti-Emperor ... until the Roman emperor adopted him (the Romans were into adoption) ... then Jesus became the ultimate power behind the throne "Christos Pantokrator" ... Christ World Ruler.  Though the Buddhist emperor of India, Ashoka, did this long before ... as Chakra-Vartin ... aka Master of the Wheel (of Fate).
Title: Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
Post by: Hydra009 on March 10, 2016, 11:04:41 AM
Quote from: SkyChief on March 10, 2016, 03:45:12 AMAnd therefore believing in ANY supreme being, spiritual entity, holy creator, etc., does not meet the fundamental qualifying criterion for atheism.
Of course.  Who argued otherwise?  Up until now, I never heard of deists claiming to be atheists.  Usually, they debate against atheism and for the existence of some sort of deity.
Title: Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
Post by: aitm on March 10, 2016, 11:24:27 AM
I could see the point. If, as the definition implies, deist believe in a creator that does not  intervene in human events, for all practical purposes, the accidental creator. As such, it would not qualify as a god as a god normally quantifies as one that does intervene in human events. I have no issue with that. I can easily agree to that premise and even would not have a problem identifying myself as one as well. I do not believe there is an god interested in us at all, however I do not dismiss the possibility of the accidental creator, or even of a creator that purposefully created the universe, and has no interest in it and does not intervene in it, providing we state as well, that it could not be an ever eternal creator.
Title: Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
Post by: SkyChief on March 10, 2016, 11:33:25 AM
Baruch, earlier in the ShoutBox you replied " So on one level a Deist is a kind of atheist, but of the Enlightened sort."

Interestingly, this is precisely the argument these people use to rationalize the inclusion of Deist under the "protection" of the atheist umbrella.

And this is what makes me mad. They are deliberately misusing the term atheist to push their belief system in front of all other god-based world-views and religions.

I'm sorry I was asleep and missed your shout.
Title: Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
Post by: aitm on March 10, 2016, 12:02:16 PM
Quote from: SkyChief on March 10, 2016, 11:33:25 AM
They are deliberately misusing the term atheist to push their belief system in front of all other god-based world-views and religions.

I would certainly be interested in seeing an example of this. I have never heard of "one of them" making any demands.
Title: Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
Post by: stromboli on March 10, 2016, 01:00:12 PM
Quote from: SkyChief on March 10, 2016, 11:33:25 AM
And this is what makes me mad. They are deliberately misusing the term atheist to push their belief system in front of all other god-based world-views and religions.

To many atheist is a dirty word and often used in the pejorative. I went from theist to deist to atheist to then redefine myself as a secular humanist. Words are a thing with me, so specific definitions are big in my world. Secular humanist doesn't seem to carry the connotations atheism does, so I prefer to call myself that. You also get a WTF response when you identify as that, which opens doors for discussion. My personal thing. Carry on.
Title: Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
Post by: SkyChief on March 10, 2016, 01:03:26 PM
Quote from: aitm on March 10, 2016, 12:02:16 PM
I would certainly be interested in seeing an example of this. I have never heard of "one of them" making any demands.

Well, perhaps I wasnt clear.  They're not making any demands, per se, rather, they're special pleading for inclusion to the ranks of atheists.
As if by doing so this somehow validates their god/supernaturtal entity paradigm.

Here's an example of the bizarre logic axioms they use to justify this: (I bolded the relevant parts)

"So like all English words meanings change over time. Languages are fluid. And given that English is spoken by many different cultures across the world, it is particularly fluid and there is no authority to dictate a 'standard' or 'official' definition.

Appealing to a 'standard' definition simply does not work.

Some people identify as deist, but reject specifically theism. Hence a-theist can be applied to them. A God that is not a theistic God does not conflict with atheism under some definitions. In fact deism emerged specifically as a rejection of the concept of a personal interactive God.

Some forms of deism overlap with pantheism, panentheism and even Buddism. But are distinguished from theism in that there is no revelation, no saviour and no personal God.

In the case of deism, it makes no claims of evidence for me to reject. Deism claims no revelation, has no holy texts and posits no personal God. The universe with a deist God and without it would be the same, so it is irrelevant to the whole purpose of apologetics. And to the fact that when it comes to discussing Christian apologetics, I am atheist. I do not believe the God in question exists."


- parsivalshorse -
____________________________________________________________________________________

Notice the very last statement "I do not believe the God in question exists."

There was no god in question in context of the argument on the other forum. There is no god in question when it comes to atheism;

Zeus = Apollo = Athena = Yahweh = Thor = Balder = Spirit Entity which is the creator of all things = Aurora etc, etc.. They're all the same.  No need for any distinction regarding beliefs in gods and spiritual entities when it comes to atheism. 

To be truly atheist, one must lack belief in ALL of them.


Title: Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
Post by: Baruch on March 10, 2016, 01:05:43 PM
Quote from: SkyChief on March 10, 2016, 11:33:25 AM
Baruch, earlier in the ShoutBox you replied " So on one level a Deist is a kind of atheist, but of the Enlightened sort."

Interestingly, this is precisely the argument these people use to rationalize the inclusion of Deist under the "protection" of the atheist umbrella.

And this is what makes me mad. They are deliberately misusing the term atheist to push their belief system in front of all other god-based world-views and religions.

I'm sorry I was asleep and missed your shout.

It is still there.  I did the ShoutOut because I didn't realize there was also a post.  People claiming deism now might be confused with agnosticism.

In the 18th century, it would have been politically correct ... to not claim that a deist was an atheist, because deists didn't want to run afoul of the felony law against being an atheist.  So this was atheism-lite.  Had this happened after 1850 ... they would have just said atheist.  Because as aitm posted ... a strict deist position is very close to atheism vs Abrahamic deities.

Today, we don't have felony laws against atheism in the West .. so the whole point sort of goes away.  I find it ... tendentious to posit a deity that isn't omnipresent ... to assume one at the beginning only.
Title: Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
Post by: SkyChief on March 10, 2016, 01:36:06 PM
Quote from: Baruch on March 10, 2016, 01:05:43 PM
People claiming deism now might be confused with agnosticism...

Today, we don't have felony laws against atheism in the West .. so the whole point sort of goes away.  I find it ... tendentious to posit a deity that isn't omnipresent ... to assume one at the beginning only.

Agreed on all these assertions.

I should point out though, that while not being a felony, there are SEVEN State Constitutions which preclude Atheists from holding public office in that respective State. 

But that's stuff for a different thread, I suppose. 

Title: Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
Post by: aitm on March 10, 2016, 02:13:41 PM
Quote from: SkyChief on March 10, 2016, 01:03:26 PM
To be truly atheist, one must lack belief in ALL of them.

Again, I would argue as I did in post 3, that god and a creator are not the same thing. Humans can create stuff. Nor do I have any problem accepting that position into the ranks. Believing in a creator that is not a god is as much an atheist as not believing in a god. I can see no objection to it personally.
Title: Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
Post by: Hydra009 on March 10, 2016, 02:41:23 PM
Quote from: aitm on March 10, 2016, 02:13:41 PMAgain, I would argue as I did in post 3, that god and a creator are not the same thing. Humans can create stuff. Nor do I have any problem accepting that position into the ranks. Believing in a creator that is not a god is as much an atheist as not believing in a god. I can see no objection to it personally.
I dunno.  Some sort of divine being who created the universe seems an awfully lot like a god.  In fact, I'm pretty sure that's the very definition of a god.  And separating deism from deity (I suspect that they might have some sort of root word in common) seems like an exercise in futility.
Title: Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
Post by: PickelledEggs on March 10, 2016, 04:43:30 PM
Deist is a belief in a deity, even in a general sense. Atheism is the lack or disbelief in deities. Deity is just another word for god... How is this hard to understand?
Title: Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
Post by: SkyChief on March 10, 2016, 04:59:32 PM
Quote from: aitm on March 10, 2016, 02:13:41 PM
Again, I would argue as I did in post 3, that god and a creator are not the same thing. Humans can create stuff. Nor do I have any problem accepting that position into the ranks. Believing in a creator that is not a god is as much an atheist as not believing in a god. I can see no objection to it personally.

In this context, an "accidental" creator, a "purposeful" creator, a "non-interventionist" creator,  are all manifest portrayal of a god entity.

As A non-believer, I make no distinctions between any spiritual creators. Even though the timeline of these creators might not intersect.

For example, the Abrahamic god has always existed - this particular god needs no creator because "He has always been".  *rolls eyes*.

The Deist god existed before the creation, and all involvement ceased 1/trillionth of a second after creation occurred... At least thats my understanding of it.

Naturally, the concept of god(s) to a non-believer will differ greatly from a believer, or even an agnostic.

I suppose it all comes down to semantics and etymology.
Title: Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
Post by: Mr.Obvious on March 10, 2016, 05:07:01 PM
Quote from: SkyChief on March 10, 2016, 11:33:25 AM
Baruch, earlier in the ShoutBox you replied " So on one level a Deist is a kind of atheist, but of the Enlightened sort."

Quote(13:04:32) Baruch: So on one level, a deist is a kind of theist, but of the Enlightenme​nt sort

One letter.
Jeesh, I'm confused now.
Title: Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
Post by: SkyChief on March 10, 2016, 05:20:24 PM
Quote from: stromboli on March 10, 2016, 01:00:12 PM
To many atheist is a dirty word and often used in the pejorative. I went from theist to deist to atheist to then redefine myself as a secular humanist. Words are a thing with me, so specific definitions are big in my world. Secular humanist doesn't seem to carry the connotations atheism does, so I prefer to call myself that. You also get a WTF response when you identify as that, which opens doors for discussion. My personal thing. Carry on.

Would you consider your re-defining yourself as a secular humanist an advancement in your ideology, or simply a method to avoid identifying as atheist?

Im not trying to be a smart-ass.  Serious question.  : )
Title: Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
Post by: PickelledEggs on March 10, 2016, 05:28:34 PM
Kind of in the way a square is also a rectangle... theists are also deists. Not strictly in the same sense, but it's similar enough for a comparison.

Theists are deists, but with a more specific way of going about believing it... usually with the rules and story-line that goes with that religion and that religion's specific god. Deists just believe in a general deity.


It's also kind of like saying "I'm a fan of super heroes" vs saying "I'm a fan of Superman"
Title: Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
Post by: Baruch on March 10, 2016, 06:29:12 PM
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on March 10, 2016, 05:07:01 PM
One letter.
Jeesh, I'm confused now.

The second line is correct in modern terms, as per the people posting here.

The first line is correct in old terms, as per the people 250 years ago (atheism was defined more broadly).
Title: Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
Post by: Mike Cl on March 10, 2016, 06:56:14 PM
atheism is the lack of a belief in a god/gods.  A deist has to believe in some type of deity.   And a deity is a god.  So, a deist is a form of theism.  Simple.
Title: Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
Post by: Baruch on March 10, 2016, 07:00:53 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on March 10, 2016, 06:56:14 PM
atheism is the lack of a belief in a god/gods.  A deist has to believe in some type of deity.   And a deity is a god.  So, a deist is a form of theism.  Simple.

Yes, in modern technical terms.  People of prior generations would disagree.
Title: Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
Post by: Mike Cl on March 10, 2016, 07:01:35 PM
Quote from: Baruch on March 10, 2016, 07:00:53 PM
Yes, in modern technical terms.  People of prior generations would disagree.
Then have them come visit me and we will talk about it. :)
Title: Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
Post by: Baruch on March 10, 2016, 07:03:38 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on March 10, 2016, 07:01:35 PM
Then have them come visit me and we will talk about it. :)

Not a good plan ... if they could, you would be in more trouble than a woman with a red A letter on her dress ... you can either float and be executed for a witch, or sink and drown.  Your choice ;-)
Title: Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
Post by: PickelledEggs on March 10, 2016, 07:15:12 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on March 10, 2016, 06:56:14 PM
atheism is the lack of a belief in a god/gods.  A deist has to believe in some type of deity.   And a deity is a god.  So, a deist is a form of theism.  Simple.
Technically, it's reversed: theism is a form of deism, but yes. Absolutely
Title: Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
Post by: Hydra009 on March 10, 2016, 08:24:11 PM
Quote from: PickelledEggs on March 10, 2016, 07:15:12 PMTechnically, it's reversed: theism is a form of deism, but yes. Absolutely
Here's the way I see it:  there's theism (belief in a god) and atheism (lack of belief in a god).  These options and mutually exclusive and collectively exhaustive, so there's no third option here.  Among theists, there's monotheism and polytheism.  Among monotheists, there are those who believe in a personal god who intervenes in the world and those who do not (deists).  It gets messier than that given the wide variety and often idiosyncratic nature of religious beliefs, but that's the general picture.
Title: Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
Post by: aitm on March 10, 2016, 09:45:19 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on March 10, 2016, 02:41:23 PM
Some sort of divine being who created the universe seems an awfully lot like a god.
I saw nothing in original posts that suggested "divine"

QuoteIn fact, I'm pretty sure that's the very definition of a god. 

perhaps, but the definition supplied in the OP did not suggest a divine god that intervenes in human affairs, in fact it said the exact OPPOSITE, a creator that does NOT intervene in human affairs which removes any and all similarities to a god.

QuoteAnd separating deism from deity (I suspect that they might have some sort of root word in common) seems like an exercise in futility.
not the argument, the argument is deity to god, and by his definition in the OP there is NO god currently worshipped in the annals of humanity that fit this description. Therefore, I hold my point is valid.
Title: Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
Post by: aitm on March 10, 2016, 09:47:53 PM
Quote from: PickelledEggs on March 10, 2016, 04:43:30 PM
Deity is just another word for god...
Not according to the OP definition. Lets stick with the OP here, after all the OP supplied the definition and it is NOT a god it easily is a janitor who spilled the cleaning material into a sink.
Title: Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
Post by: aitm on March 10, 2016, 09:49:10 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on March 10, 2016, 06:56:14 PMAnd a deity is a god. 
I refer back to the OP's definition, and that most certainly is NOT a god.
Title: Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
Post by: PickelledEggs on March 10, 2016, 09:49:23 PM
Quote from: aitm on March 10, 2016, 09:47:53 PM
Not according to the OP definition. Lets stick with the OP here, after all the OP supplied the definition and it is NOT a god it easily is a janitor who spilled the cleaning material into a sink.
Quite simply, if it's not a god that the deist believes in, they aren't a deist.

-Sent from your mom

Title: Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
Post by: aitm on March 10, 2016, 09:51:50 PM
Quote from: PickelledEggs on March 10, 2016, 09:49:23 PM
Quite simply, if it's not a god that the deist believes in, they aren't a deist.

-Sent from your mom


Quite simply, you are wrong. A creator is no more god than you or I. The OP definition does not say the creator CAN intervene, it only suggests it won't which makes it irrelevant. What is so hard about this? A janitor is not a god, and you insist that a janitor is a god.
Title: Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
Post by: PickelledEggs on March 10, 2016, 09:56:07 PM
Quote from: aitm on March 10, 2016, 09:51:50 PM
Quite simply, you are wrong. A creator is no more god than you or I. The OP definition does not say the creator CAN intervene, it only suggests it won't which makes it irrelevant. What is so hard about this? A janitor is not a god, and you insist that a janitor is a god.
If a deist doesn't believe in a deity, they are not a deist. They might think it's an alien or some kind of advanced creature, but that is not a god and makes them outside of the category of deist.
Title: Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
Post by: aitm on March 10, 2016, 09:57:44 PM
Quote from: SkyChief on March 10, 2016, 04:59:32 PM
In this context, an "accidental" creator, a "purposeful" creator, a "non-interventionist" creator,  are all manifest portrayal of a god entity.
not according to the definition you supplied in the OP. In fact your next definition of atheism does not have the word creator at all, but the word god, therefore two SEPARATE ideas completely.


QuoteI suppose it all comes down to semantics and etymology.
I suggests it comes down to the definition you supplied.
Title: Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
Post by: PickelledEggs on March 10, 2016, 10:03:49 PM
It really all comes down to if what the supreme being the deist is talking about is. If it's a supernatural being of some sort, its a god and they are not an atheist. If it's an advanced alien of some sort, maybe they are.
Title: Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
Post by: aitm on March 10, 2016, 10:04:13 PM
Quote from: PickelledEggs on March 10, 2016, 09:56:07 PM
If a deist doesn't believe in a deity, they are not a deist. They might think it's an alien or some kind of advanced creature, but that is not a god and makes them outside of the category of deist.

What is so hard about reading the  definition supplied by the OP? Here it is again:
de·ism
ˈdÄ"izÉ™m,ˈdāizÉ™m/
[noun]
Belief in the existence of a supreme being, specifically of a creator who does not intervene in the universe. The term is used chiefly of an intellectual movement of the 17th and 18th centuries that accepted the existence of a creator on the basis of reason but rejected belief in a supernatural deity who interacts with humankind.

AGAIN, where does the OP definition say GOD? Point it out please.

NOW, where the hell does it say it CANNOT be an alien? Or a janitor? Being the creator of a universe makes even a janitor a supreme being. You guys are getting all bent out of shape over simplicity.

If a highly intelligent thing creates a universe by accident, it is NOT a god. NOTHING suggests it can intervene in human affairs or even its OWN affairs. Really, this is very easy shit here. Stop twisting your brain over making a janitor into a god.
Title: Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
Post by: PickelledEggs on March 10, 2016, 10:16:58 PM
You're getting pretty bent out of shape about this... Deity is in the name deist. Deity is another word for God.

Like I said. It comes down to what we're talking about. Is it a deity? Or an advanced being? Is the method for creation supernatural? Or technology? If it's the former in either of those, they're under the category of deity, making the person a deist. If it's the latter, not so much.


And you're the guy bringing janitors in to this... What does a janitor have to do with anything in this?

It's as simple as: If a person believes in a deity, they're a deist. If they don't, they're not.

-Sent from your mom

Title: Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
Post by: Mike Cl on March 10, 2016, 10:19:44 PM
Quote from: Baruch on March 10, 2016, 07:03:38 PM
Not a good plan ... if they could, you would be in more trouble than a woman with a red A letter on her dress ... you can either float and be executed for a witch, or sink and drown.  Your choice ;-)
I think I'll have a float................a root beer float.
Title: Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
Post by: aitm on March 10, 2016, 10:36:53 PM
Quote from: PickelledEggs on March 10, 2016, 10:16:58 PM
Deity is another word for God.
Not by the definition of the OP, start  new thread and supply YOUR definition and we can discuss this, but a creator is NOT a god. PERIOD.

QuoteLike I said. It comes down to what we're talking about.

BINGO! Lets stick with the definition supplied by the OP and stop creating your own.

QuoteAnd you're the guy bringing janitors in to this... What does a janitor have to do with anything in this?
Because the "creator" in no way suggests a "purposeful creator" get it? Nothing suggests it was done on PURPOSE which also opens the door for accidental which mean a janitor could have spilled his "magic spring blossom" cleaner into a drain and created our universe.

So WHY would they worship this? Why would you? It doesn't fucking care. It is NOT A FUCKING GOD!



Title: Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
Post by: SkyChief on March 12, 2016, 01:32:06 AM
Wikipedia lists Deism as a type of Theism.

1   Types of Theism:

1.1   Monotheism
1.2   Polytheism
1.3   Pantheism and panentheism
1.4   Deism
1.5   Autotheism
1.6   Value-judgment theisms


It defines Theism as:

Theism, in the field of comparative religion, is the belief in the existence of deities.  In popular parlance, the term theism often describes the classical conception of god(s) that is found in the monotheistic and polytheistic religions.

So the Wikipedia explanation is consistent with the axiom that Deism can never be considered atheist.

PickledEggs is correct when he stated
QuoteDeity is just another word for god

Regardless of context. In a monotheistic religion a deity is the creator and supreme being [God].

In a polytheistic religion, it is a god or goddess.
Title: Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
Post by: aitm on March 12, 2016, 08:10:48 AM
Hey, call it whatever you want. If a creator does nothing at all, just disappears and never comes back, does not demand to be prayed to, does not proclaim that it did anything, leaves no evidence of its existence, does not even leave anything to suggests it exists, has absolutely nothing to do whatsoever with its creation and perhaps CANNOT do anything regarding its creation….buddy, that is not a god. There is nothing that suggests it is anything more than a cockroach. If you wish to go about saying cockroaches are gods then go right ahead.
Title: Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
Post by: stromboli on March 12, 2016, 08:39:57 AM
I don't see a huge difference between creator vs god, since the function in that respect is the same. Either way its a "do nothing and be invisible for centuries" role.

Like something falling into a pond. Shit happens and nobody sees the cause. But since nobody saw anything the default is a guy did it. God is a guy. Can't be a quantum hiccup or none of that other shit, the cause has got to be a guy. Prove it? Nope. But its got to be a guy. Why? Because it is always a guy, just is. Something falling out of an airplane? Nope. Got to be a guy. Why? Because some semi literate sheepherder 6,000 years ago said it was a guy. Therefore every other possibility must be excluded. Case closed. Carry on.
Title: Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
Post by: Baruch on March 12, 2016, 08:46:30 AM
"Something falling out of an airplane?" ... ever see "The Gods Must Be Crazy"?
Title: Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
Post by: stromboli on March 12, 2016, 08:55:59 AM
Quote from: Baruch on March 12, 2016, 08:46:30 AM
"Something falling out of an airplane?" ... ever see "The Gods Must Be Crazy"?

Yes I have. A white guy told me that was a racist picture. A priesthood bearing Mormon white guy. In Utah that is the go to source.
Title: Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
Post by: Baruch on March 12, 2016, 09:05:37 AM
Quote from: stromboli on March 12, 2016, 08:55:59 AM
Yes I have. A white guy told me that was a racist picture. A priesthood bearing Mormon white guy. In Utah that is the go to source.

It wasn't racist ... it was very funny.  The butt of the jokes were the White people.  My favorite bit was when the elephant shit scientist got his Landrover stuck up a tree.  The San guy, the primary character ... was the last of his kind ... they don't live that way anymore, they are on a reservation.  There is no longer anyone who can live like we all did in the Stone Age.  When civilization goes down, there will be no survivors, because running around with a complicated gun can only be done for so long.  Because there is nobody to teach us how ... that and people who lived like the San used to ... were incredibly fit.  Even if we learned, we wouldn't be physically able to do it.
Title: Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
Post by: aitm on March 12, 2016, 12:02:45 PM
You may twist and jump through whatever hoops one wants, but the definition specifically "rejected belief in a supernatural deity who interacts with humankind" you have eliminated a god, and replaced it with a creator which is not a god. Therefore, were this the last post thread, I would simply proclaim. I win.
Title: Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
Post by: PickelledEggs on March 12, 2016, 03:10:13 PM
Quote from: aitm on March 12, 2016, 12:02:45 PM
I win.

lol ok aitm. whatever you want
Title: Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
Post by: josephpalazzo on March 12, 2016, 03:55:10 PM
Atheism means lack of evidence in the existence of a deity. Anything else is not about atheism. An atheist can believe in voodooism, spirituality, ghosts, landing on the moon is a hoax... whatever, but none of that pertains to atheism.  capisci...
Title: Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
Post by: PickelledEggs on March 12, 2016, 04:08:03 PM
aitm. "rejected belief in a supernatural deity who interacts with humankind" is simply rejecting a type (or a few types) of god(s).

It's specifically rejecting a deity or god that intervenes after they create. This is not excluding deities that stand on the sidelines and do nothing afterwards. In fact, it's exactly what deism is. The belief that there is a deity that does not intervene. Eliminating gods that intervene post-creation, does not eliminate all types of gods.