If you support shillary you're either a fucking ignorant or insane.
This isn't my video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dY77j6uBHI&ebc=ANyPxKqPbgRUN3XxIxBUeNDr-mIvImw9MuQl6NlY2hnEZCUHQqComdB7pMxhOkbLDXLOcSHDT-FGIB7fLm-WAmakKsU3tVEJhA
Not my favorite politician ... I have lots against the whole Clinton clan
Far better than any Republican.
I plan to vote for Bernie in the primaries, but if Hillary wins the Democratic nomination, I'm voting for her. The Supreme Court is at stake, as is much more: abortion rights, church/state separation, etc.
So... Any opinion different than yours qualifies the holder as either ignorant or insane and they deserve the name calling that you wrote.
Got it, but I am going to ignore it (and this whole thread) due to the simplistic nature of your assumptions on who I am.
So let me be clear. I intend to support Hillary over Bernie. My reasons are private. I am neither ignorant or insane. So by simple counter-example, you are obviously wrong. Maybe there are other reasons that you are ignorant to or you simply can't comprehend for my supporting Clinton.
You seem to love to complain about how people treat you, and this is how you treat others. Pot... Kettle comes to mind.
k
Quote from: GreatLife on February 19, 2016, 07:45:46 AM
So... Any opinion different than yours qualifies the holder as either ignorant or insane and they deserve the name calling that you wrote.
Got it, but I am going to ignore it (and this whole thread) due to the simplistic nature of your assumptions on who I am.
I was going to say something similar, but you beat me to it.
If you want people to invest in your argument, present present it free of name-calling and swearing, especially in the opening sentence. Doing both right out of the gate makes the you feel so angry and biased that no one is going to want to listen anyway, so it doesn't matter what comes next. If someone laid out a plan that would actually solve the world's problems but it was preceded by something that went to the effect of, "Listen up you fucking cunts, because I'm right and you're not," no one would take them seriously.
Hillary has evolved on her positions. So what? I prefer someone who is flexible than someone who is an ideologue and can never change position on any issues. The latter is dangerous, the former will give you practical results. And politics is the art of compromise.
Quote from: GreatLife on February 19, 2016, 07:45:46 AM
So... Any opinion different than yours qualifies the holder as either ignorant or insane and they deserve the name calling that you wrote.
Got it, but I am going to ignore it (and this whole thread) due to the simplistic nature of your assumptions on who I am.
So let me be clear. I intend to support Hillary over Bernie. My reasons are private. I am neither ignorant or insane. So by simple counter-example, you are obviously wrong. Maybe there are other reasons that you are ignorant to or you simply can't comprehend for my supporting Clinton.
You seem to love to complain about how people treat you, and this is how you treat others. Pot... Kettle comes to mind.
This................ditto for me!
Quote from: josephpalazzo on February 19, 2016, 09:07:10 AM
Hillary has evolved on her positions. So what? I prefer someone who is flexible than someone who is an ideologue and can never change position on any issues. The latter is dangerous, the former will give you practical results. And politics is the art of compromise.
One of the silliest charges leveled against Hillary is that she "used to oppose gay marriage, but then she changed her mind." She has long been a supporter of gay rights, but when she was running for Senate, it was a time when voicing support for gay marriage was political suicide.
'Twould be a nightmare if it came down to Clinton VS Cruz. There doesn't seem to be a lesser evil. Ideally, I'd like to see Trump VS Sanders. Trump, a secret liberal, might craftily help Bernard win. If it were Trump VS Clinton, I'd vote Trump.
Quote from: gentle_dissident on February 19, 2016, 10:19:49 AM
'Twould be a nightmare if it came down to Clinton VS Cruz. There doesn't seem to be a lesser evil.
Cruz would be order of magnitude worse. He's a dyed-in-the-wool theocrat, and any Supreme Court nominees he appoints would be destructive to American freedom.
Hubby Bill signed the Defense Of Marriage Act into law. The bill was supported by both Republicans and Democrats. It was unconstitutional then and gone now. People change. Clinton admitted later he was wrong in doing so. I honestly wish there was another candidate between Bernie and Hillary. If Al Gore had won- thank you, Supreme Court- the world would be a lot different today. We need someone like him- a professed religious person with an open mind and willing to embrace the future creatively and progressively.
Unfortunately Hillary is what we have. She will get my vote if she is nominated. Only because the thought of any Republican currently running as president chills my blood. Yes she is in league with big bankers and probably worse, but still a better choice than anyone else.
Quote from: Atheon on February 19, 2016, 09:44:06 AM
One of the silliest charges leveled against Hillary is that she "used to oppose gay marriage, but then she changed her mind." She has long been a supporter of gay rights, but when she was running for Senate, it was a time when voicing support for gay marriage was political suicide.
Was it really political suicide at the time? She got booed by the audience (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VL89ga0nDMA) for her position against gay marriage, so I'm pretty sure it had at least some support. And in the OP video, in Hillary's own words, she wasn't against gay marriage for political reasons, so she wasn't a closeted gay rights supporter like you're suggesting. Meanwhile, Bernie was way ahead of her (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Bernie_Sanders#LGBT_rights) when it came to both opposing anti-gay legislation and supporting gay rights, and his career survived just fine.
Quote from: josephpalazzo on February 19, 2016, 09:07:10 AMHillary has evolved on her positions. So what? I prefer someone who is flexible than someone who is an ideologue and can never change position on any issues. The latter is dangerous, the former will give you practical results. And politics is the art of compromise.
Did you watch the video all the way through? There was more in there than just changing one's opinion on political issues.
The one that really got me was the sniper fire (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2008/mar/25/hillary-clinton/video-shows-tarmac-welcome-no-snipers/) one. It's a blatantly false statement that was retracted only when the media asked others who were there who painted a very different story. And her retelling wasn't correct, either. It's almost like she was deliberately exaggerating the threat to portray herself as tougher than her campaign rivals rather than simply misremembering.
Quote from: Hydra009 on February 19, 2016, 11:00:09 AM
Was it really political suicide at the time? She got booed by the audience (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VL89ga0nDMA) for her position against gay marriage, so I'm pretty sure it had at least some support. And in the OP video, in Hillary's own words, she wasn't against gay marriage for political reasons, so she wasn't a closeted gay rights supporter like you're suggesting. Meanwhile, Bernie was way ahead of her (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Bernie_Sanders#LGBT_rights) when it came to both opposing anti-gay legislation and supporting gay rights, and his career survived just fine.
However his economic platform is a total disaster. Even prominent economists from the Left think he's doesn't understand basic economics. His tax proposals on employer will simply be passed on to the employees. His tax on corporation will either be passed on to consumers, or they'll move to places like Ireland where the corporate tax is already lower that the US, leaving the country with higher deficits and higher unemployment rates. His free tuition proposal shows he doesn't understand both the economics behind - it would significantly increase the already 19 trillion debt in the books - and that it's education content that needs to be reformed, not the monetary part, and that would be k-12, not college. The guy is an idealist, a populist and an ideologue, totally not what the country needs. But now that he's surging in the poll, even the people at Fox News are smiling at this unexpected lead by Sanders. The Democrats are shooting themselves in the foot.
How is Bernie's economic platform allegedly being bad relevant to both candidates' stances on gay rights?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29TBHbqoRB8
Quote from: GreatLife on February 19, 2016, 07:45:46 AM
So... Any opinion different than yours qualifies the holder as either ignorant or insane and they deserve the name calling that you wrote.
Got it, but I am going to ignore it (and this whole thread) due to the simplistic nature of your assumptions on who I am.
So let me be clear. I intend to support Hillary over Bernie. My reasons are private. I am neither ignorant or insane. So by simple counter-example, you are obviously wrong. Maybe there are other reasons that you are ignorant to or you simply can't comprehend for my supporting Clinton.
You seem to love to complain about how people treat you, and this is how you treat others. Pot... Kettle comes to mind.
Well you're definitely on the ignorant side of this... Considering the video literally shows a fuck ton of her inconsistencies and lying.
But if you want to vote in a pseudo democrat then that's your choice.
Quote from: Hydra009 on February 19, 2016, 11:20:40 AM
How is Bernie's economic platform allegedly being bad relevant to both candidates' stances on gay rights?
It doesn't matter as the stand of both Hillary and Sanders on gay issues is that they both are in favor of gay rights and gay marriage - they only took different roads to get there, and it matters not who got there first. But economic policies, which will be the bread and butter issue no president can avoid, make them totally different. I think some people can't see the forest from the trees.
Quote from: josephpalazzo on February 19, 2016, 09:07:10 AM
Hillary has evolved on her positions. So what? I prefer someone who is flexible than someone who is an ideologue and can never change position on any issues. The latter is dangerous, the former will give you practical results. And politics is the art of compromise.
No one changes COMPLETELY from a homophobic republican to a LGBT rights supporting democrat that quickly, all conveniently as the polls change to match what she's saying.
If you don't like people capitulating to what's popular, don't support hillary.
And the video wasn't just her "changing her mind" on shit, it showed her outright lying multiple times.
Quote from: Atheon on February 19, 2016, 09:44:06 AM
One of the silliest charges leveled against Hillary is that she "used to oppose gay marriage, but then she changed her mind." She has long been a supporter of gay rights, but when she was running for Senate, it was a time when voicing support for gay marriage was political suicide.
So at the very least she's a capitulating pussy who doesn't stand by character, thanks, that's what I've been trying to tell people.
Quote from: Jannabear on February 19, 2016, 11:49:32 AM
No one changes COMPLETELY from a homophobic republican to a LGBT rights supporting democrat that quickly, all conveniently as the polls change to match what she's saying.
If you don't like people capitulating to what's popular, don't support hillary.
And the video wasn't just her "changing her mind" on shit, it showed her outright lying multiple times.
That change for Hillary took place over 40 years, a lot longer than you were on this planet I would guess. So yes, it can happen, it has happened as I know hundreds of such people, so unless you're willing to base your opinions on facts, you are just grasping at straws.
Quote from: josephpalazzo on February 19, 2016, 11:54:50 AM
That change for Hillary took place over 40 years, a lot longer than you were on this planet I would guess. So yes, it can happen, it has happened as I know hundreds of such people, so unless you're willing to base your opinions on facts, you are just grasping at straws.
She made a comment against it...
in fucking 2010
"so unless you're willing to base your opinions on facts"
And it's not just her position on gay marriage, it's the fact that there's one of 2 possibilities, either she changed her positions, and she's just catching up with bernie sanders on literally EVERY FUCKING ISSUE.
Or she's a manipulative capitulating power hungry bitch with no code of ethics who only cares about money and the furtherance of her own power.
She lied through her teeth about her emails, she dodges questions by laughing, she's literally the most moderate democrat when it comes to economics and she's not welling to bring about literally any fucking change, she's not a socialist, which is what we need RIGHT NOW.
She takes money from corporations, one of which she publicly said she's against.
She's either doing it for money and power, or she's just another obama.
So I don't really know what you can find positive in her, she's either a completely power hungry manipulative bitch, the next obama, or both.
Voters say that they want a president who is to the right of Obama; Sanders is considerably to his left. This, combined with the "socialist/communist" attack waiting against Sanders has several political scientists (http://www.vox.com/2016/2/5/10923304/bernie-sanders-general-election) thinking that Sanders would get perhaps 10% less of the general election vote. If you accept this line of argument (which I at least half do) then Clinton +10% is the obvious winner.
(https://cdn1.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/mtUsR5r7L6G34FxE8Q08RWoPays=/800x0/filters:no_upscale%28%29/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/6002871/imrs.0.png)
Obama barley managed to close that gap with the advantage of being the incumbent. Could Sanders close a bigger gap with "socialist/communist" hanging around his neck? I don't think so.
I think that the best case scenario is Clinton v Cruz with a jilted Trump running as an independent and splitting the conservative vote.
Quote from: Poison Tree on February 19, 2016, 12:09:53 PM
Voters say that they want a president who is to the right of Obama; Sanders is considerably to his left. This, combined with the "socialist/communist" attack waiting against Sanders has several political scientists (http://www.vox.com/2016/2/5/10923304/bernie-sanders-general-election) thinking that Sanders would get perhaps 10% less of the general election vote. If you accept this line of argument (which I at least half do) then Clinton +10% is the obvious winner.
(https://cdn1.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/mtUsR5r7L6G34FxE8Q08RWoPays=/800x0/filters:no_upscale%28%29/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/6002871/imrs.0.png)
Obama barley managed to close that gap with the advantage of being the incumbent. Could Sanders close a bigger gap with "socialist/communist" hanging around his neck? I don't think so.
I think that the best case scenario is Clinton v Cruz with a jilted Trump running as an independent and splitting the conservative vote.
His support is fucking snowballing at this point, he started at 0.8 percent and now he's really close to hillary.
Quote from: Jannabear on February 19, 2016, 12:14:53 PM
His support is fucking snowballing at this point, he started at 0.8 percent and now he's really close to hillary.
Among Democratic primary voters.
Quote from: Poison Tree on February 19, 2016, 12:18:43 PM
Among Democratic primary voters.
So why in general election polls does he do much better then hillary....
And hillary is very likely to lose in a general election with all of the shit going on regarding her being a manipulative bitch, her emails, etc.
Quote from: Jannabear on February 19, 2016, 12:02:51 PM
She made a comment against it...
in fucking 2010
I'm responding to your claim: "from a homophobic republican to a LGBT rights" She was a Republican in 1968. It's more than 40 years ago.
Quote"so unless you're willing to base your opinions on facts"
See the above reply - it's more than 40 years over which she has changed her positions. So get your facts straightened out.
QuoteAnd it's not just her position on gay marriage, it's the fact that there's one of 2 possibilities, either she changed her positions, and she's just catching up with Bernie sanders
There's a third possiblity on which you are either totally blind or willfully ignoring it: she actually evolved.
Quoteon literally EVERY FUCKING ISSUE.
Get your facts straightened out, her economic policies are totally different than Sanders, just as one example.
QuoteOr she's a manipulative capitulating power hungry bitch with no code of ethics who only cares about money and the furtherance of her own power.
Ethics is a work in progress, unless you believe in God who decreed for all time what's right or wrong. So you should know that applying your ethics on someone else is totally unacceptable. If I would apply my code of ethics on you, you'd be the first to scream murder, so don't apply yours on Hillary. That smacks of hypocrisy.
QuoteShe lied through her teeth about her emails, she dodges questions by laughing, she's literally the most moderate democrat when it comes to economics and she's not welling to bring about literally any fucking change, she's not a socialist, which is what we need RIGHT NOW.
First of all, being a socialist is NOT a prerequisite to be part of the Democratic party. Second of all, socialism is a failed ideology. So again get your facts straightened out.
[/size]QuoteShe takes money from corporations, one of which she publicly said she's against.
It's not a crime, it's not illegal, and that money is poured into pac committees over which she has no control.
QuoteShe's either doing it for money and power, or she's just another obama.
That's totally ridiculous - 1) she can make more money on the speaking tour 2) She can't be Obama, she's white AND a woman.
QuoteSo I don't really know what you can find positive in her, she's either a completely power hungry manipulative bitch, the next obama, or both.
That's your opinion which I don't share. Her CV is so extensive that compared to any other contenders, it makes them all look like amateur.
Quote from: Jannabear on February 19, 2016, 12:22:54 PM
So why in general election polls does he do much better then hillary....
And hillary is very likely to lose in a general election with all of the shit going on regarding her being a manipulative bitch, her emails, etc.
Hillary basically has her floor and ceiling locked in. Most voters don't really know who Sanders is yet and, more to the point, haven't seen the type of sustained GOP attacks against him that will come in the general election and have already been repeatedly unleashed against Hillary for decades.
Changing opinions? 40 years ago I was a homophobic Republican doomsday prepper Mormon. Now I am a liberal progressive atheist Democrat whose best friend is gay. People evolve. And I am a lot firmer in my stance now than I was then.
But that to me is not the issue. Because the SCOTUS decision per gay marriage more or less puts Democrats on the side of liberalism whether they choose it or not. To do so would alienate the Democratic base. You can trump Bernie's policies all you want, but when he declares himself a socialist and everyone identifies him as an atheist, whether he is or not, is at this point in time is not a winner politically.
Hillary is default the best choice overall because she falls on the correct side politically and whether we like it or not, a relationship with big money is better than not having one. And I don't think Sanders is up to speed foreign policy wise, which is critical. You can say Hillary was not the best Sec. of state, but she has experience and she is smart, very smart. She spent 8 years in the White House watching the business, has been a senator and Sec.of state. That is better overall than any of her opponents and she has all her marbles in the same bucket, whether we like her or not.
I also believe she was appointed Sec.of state to set her up for the presidency. And I think that might have been a deal between her and Obama. There was a lot of acrimony when Obama got elected, but he never failed to see she had political clout, and Sec. of state is by far the best classroom for international politics.
All in all she is the best choice. It isn't about gay/trans rights it is about the big picture.
Quote from: josephpalazzo on February 19, 2016, 12:23:55 PM
I'm responding to your claim: "from a homophobic republican to a LGBT rights" She was a Republican in 1968. It's more than 40 years ago.
Do you want a video of her bashing gay marriage from 2010, if you want to deny fucking reality.
See the above reply - it's more than 40 years over which she has changed her positions. So get your facts straightened out.
You're insane.
There's a third possiblity on which you are either totally blind or willfully ignoring it: she actually evolved.
Or you didn't even watch the video.
Get your facts straightened out, her economic policies are totally different than Sanders, just as one example.
I know, that's why I don't like her.
Ethics is a work in progress, unless you believe in God who decreed for all time what's right or wrong. So you should know that applying your ethics on someone else is totally unacceptable. If I would apply my code of ethics on you, you'd be the first to scream murder, so don't apply yours on Hillary. That smacks of hypocrisy.
L0l.
So fuck actually debating ethics and saying that certain actions are horrible, fuck accountability.
First of all, being a socialist is NOT a prerequisite to be part of the Democratic party. Second of all, socialism is a failed ideology. So again get your facts straightened out.
"Socialism is a failed ideology" shows me that you don't even understand what socialism is, there is no one "socialism", the question is how socialist are you, and obama and hilary aren't very socialist whatsoever, and we need socialism in america horribly.
[/size]
It's not a crime, it's not illegal, and that money is poured into pac committees over which she has no control.
"She has no control"
I nearly wanted to throw my pc when I read this.
That's totally ridiculous - 1) she can make more money on the speaking tour 2) She can't be Obama, she's white AND a woman.
I was referring to her political viewpoints you fucking moron.
That's your opinion which I don't share. Her CV is so extensive that compared to any other contenders, it makes them all look like amateur.
Yeah, she has a history of being a shill, a shady dumbass, and a homophobic moron, bernie has a history of standing on principle, and not polling numbers.
Quote from: stromboli on February 19, 2016, 12:46:37 PM
Changing opinions? 40 years ago I was a homophobic Republican doomsday prepper Mormon. Now I am a liberal progressive atheist Democrat whose best friend is gay. People evolve. And I am a lot firmer in my stance now than I was then.
She was against gay marriage in 2010.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maEvJQBJH4s
But that to me is not the issue. Because the SCOTUS decision per gay marriage more or less puts Democrats on the side of liberalism whether they choose it or not. To do so would alienate the Democratic base. You can trump Bernie's policies all you want, but when he declares himself a socialist and everyone identifies him as an atheist, whether he is or not, is at this point in time is not a winner politically.
Most people I've seen don't give a solitary fuck that he's an atheist, and he never outright said it, so he has the benefit of the doubt.
Hillary is default the best choice overall because she falls on the correct side politically and whether we like it or not, a relationship with big money is better than not having one. And I don't think Sanders is up to speed foreign policy wise, which is critical. You can say Hillary was not the best Sec. of state, but she has experience and she is smart, very smart. She spent 8 years in the White House watching the business, has been a senator and Sec.of state. That is better overall than any of her opponents and she has all her marbles in the same bucket, whether we like her or not.
Bernie's support has been rising at an insane rate, and if he does well in iowa and new hampshire then he's going to destroy hillary.
"Not up to speed on foreign policy" even though he voted against the iraq war and hillary voted for it...
She's inconsistent as fuck.
I also believe she was appointed Sec.of state to set her up for the presidency. And I think that might have been a deal between her and Obama. There was a lot of acrimony when Obama got elected, but he never failed to see she had political clout, and Sec. of state is by far the best classroom for international politics.
Yeah, someone who voted to go into iraq is good on foreign policy.
All in all she is the best choice. It isn't about gay/trans rights it is about the big picture.
Yeah, because that's the only issue with her.
Thanks for the insults. Consider yourself on my ignore list.
I can't support Hillary. If she wins the nomination I won't be voting. Some people have suggested that her views have evolved, I think thats a very naive way of looking at it. From my point of view she isn't evolving, shes just saying and doing whatever it takes to get into office. Once there, I would be a fool to believe she would do anything less than revert to her true set of political positions. Positions, I might add, which have been expertly concealed from us along with her true personality.
I have no fucking idea who Hillary Clinton really is, and the more her slick campaign managers try to explain it to me the more opaque she becomes. Shes so compressed, so hunkered down behind the candidate barricade that she doesn't even seem like she is a human being anymore. Everything that comes out of her mouth is so obviously calculated and planned that I am unable to trust it at all.
If you support Hillary, I don't think you're an idiot or ignorant but I strongly urge you to stop and consider how confident you are that she will be the president she says she will be. If you cant actually come up with a satisfactory answer, not necessarily for me but for yourself, you should not be voting for her.
Quote from: stromboli on February 19, 2016, 12:46:37 PM
Changing opinions? 40 years ago I was a homophobic Republican doomsday prepper Mormon. Now I am a liberal progressive atheist Democrat whose best friend is gay. People evolve. And I am a lot firmer in my stance now than I was then.
Yep. I've changed, too. A lot of us have. Hell, Obama changed on the whole gay marriage issue. If she were under fire simply for changing her mind, that'd be screwed up. But she's not.
She's under fire for engaging in historical revisionism (http://reason.com/blog/2015/10/26/hillary-clintons-bizarre-gay-marriage-re) on DOMA. That sort of thing is a legitimate grievance to have against a candidate and although personal likability (http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/hillary-clinton-favorable-rating) does take a back seat to platform in my book, it really hurts electability.
Quote from: Nonsensei on February 19, 2016, 01:58:32 PM
I can't support Hillary. If she wins the nomination I won't be voting. Some people have suggested that her views have evolved, I think thats a very naive way of looking at it. From my point of view she isn't evolving, shes just saying and doing whatever it takes to get into office. Once there, I would be a fool to believe she would do anything less than revert to her true set of political positions. Positions, I might add, which have been expertly concealed from us along with her true personality.
I have no fucking idea who Hillary Clinton really is, and the more her slick campaign managers try to explain it to me the more opaque she becomes. Shes so compressed, so hunkered down behind the candidate barricade that she doesn't even seem like she is a human being anymore. Everything that comes out of her mouth is so obviously calculated and planned that I am unable to trust it at all.
If you support Hillary, I don't think you're an idiot or ignorant but I strongly urge you to stop and consider how confident you are that she will be the president she says she will be. If you cant actually come up with a satisfactory answer, not necessarily for me but for yourself, you should not be voting for her.
Oh god. Please at least vote for Hillary so Trump doesn't get elected. I don't support Hillary, but I sure as hell would rather her than ANY of the republican candidates.
So please. I beg of you. If it comes down to Hillary vs whatever republican is left instead of Bernie, PLEASE vote Hillary so we're not left with one of those guys. When it's a choice between the lesser of 2 evils and you have Hillary, who is evil and the entire cast of republicans (who are 1000000x more evil) Hillary needs to be picked.
Believe me, I don't want Hillary to be our president, but holy shit. I would rather her than those other nut-cases.
When there is a choice of being kicked in the balls or getting smacked in the face, I would prefer to get smacked in the face.
Quote from: Hydra009 on February 19, 2016, 02:04:43 PM
...
She's under fire for engaging in historical revisionism (http://reason.com/blog/2015/10/26/hillary-clintons-bizarre-gay-marriage-re) on DOMA. That sort of thing is a legitimate grievance to have against a candidate and although personal likability (http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/hillary-clinton-favorable-rating) does take a back seat to platform in my book, it really hurts electability.
But in that same article, it says, "...it (DOMA) got 118 Democratic votes in the House and 32 Democratic votes in the Senate.
It was a different time back then, and opinions and political positions on gay and lesbian issues have changed a lot since. It's hard (but not impossible) to find a Democrat who isn't on board same-sex marriage recognition these days and looking to expand civil rights laws to protect gays against workplace and public accommodations discrimination."
For some, it's a fault if you change position, then you would most likely fail in science, as new evidence compels a scientist to change position.
Quote from: PickelledEggs on February 19, 2016, 02:11:43 PM
Oh god. Please at least vote for Hillary so Trump doesn't get elected. I don't support Hillary, but I sure as hell would rather her than ANY of the republican candidates.
So please. I beg of you. If it comes down to Hillary vs whatever republican is left instead of Bernie, PLEASE vote Hillary so we're not left with one of those guys. When it's a choice between the lesser of 2 evils and you have Hillary, who is evil and the entire cast of republicans (who are 1000000x more evil) Hillary needs to be picked.
Believe me, I don't want Hillary to be our president, but holy shit. I would rather her than those other nut-cases.
I get where you're coming from here, but try to see it from my point of view. To me, Hillary is not a Democrat. She is not a Republican or an independent either. She is just a humongous fucking question mark. She couldn't be more concealed if she were wearing a burqa. If she got into office and literally turned out to be the leader of a vanguard of lizard man invaders I would be just as surprised as if she turned out to be a moderate democrat. I have no idea what she will do with the presidency.
On the other hand I cant turn on a fucking TV in this country without learning all about what Donald Trump will do with the presidency. Its reprehensible, but at least his fucking cards are on the table, face up. I won't vote for him, but I won't vote for her either.
Quote from: Nonsensei on February 19, 2016, 02:16:16 PM
I get where you're coming from here, but try to see it from my point of view. To me, Hillary is not a Democrat. She is not a Republican or an independent either. She is just a humongous fucking question mark. She couldn't be more concealed if she were wearing a burqa. If she got into office and literally turned out to be the leader of a vanguard of lizard man invaders I would be just as surprised as if she turned out to be a moderate democrat. I have no idea what she will do with the presidency.
On the other hand I cant turn on a fucking TV in this country without learning all about what Donald Trump will do with the presidency. Its reprehensible, but at least his fucking cards are on the table, face up. I won't vote for him, but I won't vote for her either.
So would you rather have Hillary? or one of the Republican candidates?
I understand what you are saying, but I don't agree with your choice of what is basically "Fuck it. I give up. I don't get a choice of Ice Cream and poison... it's just a choice between two poisons... so someone pick my poison for me."
Quote from: Poison Tree on February 19, 2016, 12:18:43 PMAmong Democratic primary voters.
Democratic primary voters are an important demographic for a democratic primary. :P
Sanders does better with Independents (http://www.inquisitr.com/2641744/bernie-sanders-2016-election-victory-independents-could-win-presidency-for-fiery-vermont-senator/), too.
Quote from: Nonsensei on February 19, 2016, 02:16:16 PM
I get where you're coming from here, but try to see it from my point of view. To me, Hillary is not a Democrat. She is not a Republican or an independent either. She is just a humongous fucking question mark. She couldn't be more concealed if she were wearing a burqa. If she got into office and literally turned out to be the leader of a vanguard of lizard man invaders I would be just as surprised as if she turned out to be a moderate democrat. I have no idea what she will do with the presidency.
On the other hand I cant turn on a fucking TV in this country without learning all about what Donald Trump will do with the presidency. Its reprehensible, but at least his fucking cards are on the table, face up. I won't vote for him, but I won't vote for her either.
Wow, really...
"After law school, Hillary could have gone to work for a prestigious law firm, but took a job at the Children’s Defense Fund. She worked with teenagers incarcerated in adult prisons in South Carolina and families with disabled children in Massachusetts. It sparked a lifelong passion for helping children live up to their potential."
"Standing in front of a U.N. conference and declaring that “women’s rights are human rights†was more controversial than it sounds today. Many within the U.S. government didn’t want Hillary to go to Beijing. Others wanted her to pick a less polarizing topic (you say polarizing, we say half the population). But Hillary was determined to speak out about human rights abuses, and her message became a rallying cry for a generation."
"Hillary Clinton was the principal author of the sanction on Iran that brought them to the table.
"Her accomplishments extend to health care, as well. As First Lady, she helped create and guide through Congress Children’s Health Insurance Program, a key program that brought health care coverage to millions of children. As a Senator, she worked across the aisle to provide full military health benefits to reservists and National Guard members."
"Hillary Clinton was instrumental in helping secure $21 billion in federal aid to help New York rebuild after 9/11. She fought tooth and nail to protect the first responders who rushed into danger when the towers collapsed and was pivotal in the passage of legislation that helped those first responders who got sick get the care and treatment they deserved."
I could go on and on on her accomplishments. A single google search would help you to enlighten yourself and avoid this embarrassing post...
Lets make an extreme hypothetical. You're being mugged in the street and the mugger gives you a choice between getting shot in the kneecap, crippling you.... possibly for the rest of your life, or shot in the thigh, which is just going to damage some tissue and will heal much better and fully. Which would you choose?
Any Republican, if they get elected would be like shooting this country in the kneecap. I don't know if we would even recover... and if we do, half of us will die of old age by that time.
Quote from: josephpalazzo on February 19, 2016, 02:13:56 PM
But in that same article, it says, "...it (DOMA) got 118 Democratic votes in the House and 32 Democratic votes in the Senate.
It was a different time back then, and opinions and political positions on gay and lesbian issues have changed a lot since.
Once again, I've noticed that your rebuttals of my arguments don't actually rebut anything I'm actually saying. The argument wasn't that she simply changed her mind, but she lied about her past stance.
Quote from: Hydra009 on February 19, 2016, 02:30:41 PM
The argument wasn't that she simply changed her mind, but she lied about her past stance.
This is one of the reasons I hope Bernie just beats her and is left to run against the Republicans. She's a liar.
Quote from: PickelledEggs on February 19, 2016, 02:11:43 PMOh god. Please at least vote for Hillary so Trump doesn't get elected. I don't support Hillary, but I sure as hell would rather her than ANY of the republican candidates.
So please. I beg of you. If it comes down to Hillary vs whatever republican is left instead of Bernie, PLEASE vote Hillary so we're not left with one of those guys. When it's a choice between the lesser of 2 evils and you have Hillary, who is evil and the entire cast of republicans (who are 1000000x more evil) Hillary needs to be picked.
Believe me, I don't want Hillary to be our president, but holy shit. I would rather her than those other nut-cases.
I agree with this 100%. But I also think that we shouldn't force voters to choose between the lesser of two evils on election day. We can stop that from happening by voting smart in the primary.
Quote from: Hydra009 on February 19, 2016, 02:30:41 PM
Once again, I've noticed that your rebuttals of my arguments don't actually rebut anything I'm actually saying. The argument wasn't that she simply changed her mind, but she lied about her past stance.
I'm not trying to rebut, but for you to see the bigger picture. I guess I failed in that endeavor.
Quote from: Hydra009 on February 19, 2016, 02:33:11 PM
I agree with this 100%. But I also think that we shouldn't force voters to choose between the lesser of two evils on election day. We can stop that from happening by voting smart in the primary.
Exactly. I hope that Hillary doesn't win the primaries and Bernie wins instead. That would luckily make this whole thread irrelevant.... but on the chance that we do we should think about in advance about what actions we take. I hate "lesser of two evils" choices, but reality is, sometimes we have to make them.... as much as I'd hate to admit it.
Quote from: josephpalazzo on February 19, 2016, 02:25:33 PM
Wow, really...
"After law school, Hillary could have gone to work for a prestigious law firm, but took a job at the Children’s Defense Fund. She worked with teenagers incarcerated in adult prisons in South Carolina and families with disabled children in Massachusetts. It sparked a lifelong passion for helping children live up to their potential."
"Standing in front of a U.N. conference and declaring that “women’s rights are human rights†was more controversial than it sounds today. Many within the U.S. government didn’t want Hillary to go to Beijing. Others wanted her to pick a less polarizing topic (you say polarizing, we say half the population). But Hillary was determined to speak out about human rights abuses, and her message became a rallying cry for a generation."
"Hillary Clinton was the principal author of the sanction on Iran that brought them to the table.
"Her accomplishments extend to health care, as well. As First Lady, she helped create and guide through Congress Children’s Health Insurance Program, a key program that brought health care coverage to millions of children. As a Senator, she worked across the aisle to provide full military health benefits to reservists and National Guard members."
"Hillary Clinton was instrumental in helping secure $21 billion in federal aid to help New York rebuild after 9/11. She fought tooth and nail to protect the first responders who rushed into danger when the towers collapsed and was pivotal in the passage of legislation that helped those first responders who got sick get the care and treatment they deserved."
I could go on and on on her accomplishments. A single google search would help you to enlighten yourself and avoid this embarrassing post...
A list that could probably be compiled for any number of Washington players. Also, its written in a very flattering way. Where did you get it, hillaryclinton.com?
I guess I'm just way more cynical than you about this. Where you see a list of actions that denote intent and character, I see an ambitious person creating stepping stones to her goal. How does the sort of person who would work at the children's defense fund instead of making a boatload of money, or stand up for womens rights at the UN or any of those other things end up coming off so fake and insincere? Wheres the passionate person who should exist based on this self aggrandizing list of accomplishments?
Does she really give a fuck about any of these issues? Does she give a fuck about us? Or was it just resume building for her presidential bid?
Quote from: PickelledEggs on February 19, 2016, 02:11:43 PM
Oh god. Please at least vote for Hillary so Trump doesn't get elected. I don't support Hillary, but I sure as hell would rather her than ANY of the republican candidates.
So please. I beg of you. If it comes down to Hillary vs whatever republican is left instead of Bernie, PLEASE vote Hillary so we're not left with one of those guys. When it's a choice between the lesser of 2 evils and you have Hillary, who is evil and the entire cast of republicans (who are 1000000x more evil) Hillary needs to be picked.
Believe me, I don't want Hillary to be our president, but holy shit. I would rather her than those other nut-cases.
Bernie does better in general election polls, this whole "hillary is more electable" bullshit is getting old.
I don't understand Hillary supporters trying to defend her character. She's a piece of shit, no ifs ands or buts. Stop trying to argue that she's a decent human being, or a human being at all, because no one is buying it. Stick with the lesser of two evils argument, because that's the only decent argument there is. She's a sociopath. She doesn't care about women (laughing at rape victims). She has said some very racist things (black youths are super predators with no conscience or empathy, and they need to be brought to heel). Even media outlets like the Young Turks are saying black people are stupid if they vote for someone like Hillary who thinks in that kind of way about black people. Black lives matter? No, they need to be brought to heel.
It was reported that Hillary doesn't like how some adoption agencies are changing their forms to say Parent 1 and Parent 2, rather than mother and father. What's her deal? Does she not like gay adoption or something? The reality is, Hillary is pretty much a Republican who doesn't give a shit about blacks, LGBTQ folks, or women. So, she doesn't give a shit about those people, and she sounds like she's going to be worse than Obama on foreign policy. Her only redeeming quality is that she's not Donald Trump... but she actually is Donald Trump. Hillary or Trump would be pretty much the same thing. Sanders would at least be a bit different/ better.
Quote from: Nonsensei on February 19, 2016, 02:54:31 PM
A list that could probably be compiled for any number of Washington players. Also, its written in a very flattering way. Where did you get it, hillaryclinton.com?
I guess I'm just way more cynical than you about this. Where you see a list of actions that denote intent and character, I see an ambitious person creating stepping stones to her goal. How does the sort of person who would work at the children's defense fund instead of making a boatload of money, or stand up for womens rights at the UN or any of those other things end up coming off so fake and insincere? Wheres the passionate person who should exist based on this self aggrandizing list of accomplishments?
Does she really give a fuck about any of these issues? Does she give a fuck about us? Or was it just resume building for her presidential bid?
I guess when she was 28 years old, she had already figured it out that all of her good actions would look good on her resume when she would be running for the president spot in 40 years from then ... if you believe that, I have a bridge to nowhere to sell you...Look, if you want to dig skeletons in ANYONE's past you'll find them. Applying some moral code, which is quite arbitrary by the very nature of what is a moral code, would disqualify 100% of the human race. Call it "choosing the lesser of evils", or "choosing the best" among those who run is frankly a matter semantics. But anyway, your post #38 was way out of the woods. If it helps you to demonize her, that's your loss.
Quote from: josephpalazzo on February 19, 2016, 04:43:57 PM
I guess when she was 28 years old, she had already figured it out that all of her good actions would look good on her resume when she would be running for the president spot in 40 years from then ... if you believe that, I have a bridge to nowhere to sell you...Look, if you want to dig skeletons in ANYONE's past you'll find them. Applying some moral code, which is quite arbitrary by the very nature of what is a moral code, would disqualify 100% of the human race. Call it "choosing the lesser of evils", or "choosing the best" among those who run is frankly a matter semantics. But anyway, your post #38 was way out of the woods. If it helps you to demonize her, that's your loss.
"If you want to dig skeletons in anyone's past you'll find them"
You're acting as if all the shit she's being accused of was like 40 fucking years ago, it wasn't.
She was a homophobic retard in 2010.
She supported going into iraq.
she CURRENTLY takes funding from corporations, and millionaires and billionaires.
So you're full of fucking shit.
(https://scontent.fhsv1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtl1/v/t1.0-9/12743589_810140702441444_7466124617591347277_n.jpg?oh=9d5d12b4df9f6b690c38575743bc31a5&oe=5723E470)
Quote from: PopeyesPappy on February 19, 2016, 05:06:08 PM
(https://scontent.fhsv1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtl1/v/t1.0-9/12743589_810140702441444_7466124617591347277_n.jpg?oh=9d5d12b4df9f6b690c38575743bc31a5&oe=5723E470)
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff277/josephpalazzo/Donald-Trump-Media-Outlets-Roasting.jpg) (http://s243.photobucket.com/user/josephpalazzo/media/Donald-Trump-Media-Outlets-Roasting.jpg.html)
Quote from: josephpalazzo on February 19, 2016, 04:43:57 PM
I guess when she was 28 years old, she had already figured it out that all of her good actions would look good on her resume when she would be running for the president spot in 40 years from then ... if you believe that, I have a bridge to nowhere to sell you...Look, if you want to dig skeletons in ANYONE's past you'll find them. Applying some moral code, which is quite arbitrary by the very nature of what is a moral code, would disqualify 100% of the human race. Call it "choosing the lesser of evils", or "choosing the best" among those who run is frankly a matter semantics. But anyway, your post #38 was way out of the woods. If it helps you to demonize her, that's your loss.
Look man I am not going out of my way to demonize her. I'm just giving my honest impressions of her as a candidate. to be blunt I don't really feel great about any of these fucking jackasses, Sanders included but at least with Sanders he can halfway convince me he gives a shit about SOMETHING and maybe his run is only 90% about self aggrandizing ego stroking rather than 100%.
Quote from: Nonsensei on February 19, 2016, 06:04:37 PM
Look man I am not going out of my way to demonize her. I'm just giving my honest impressions of her as a candidate. to be blunt I don't really feel great about any of these fucking jackasses, Sanders included but at least with Sanders he can halfway convince me he gives a shit about SOMETHING and maybe his run is only 90% about self aggrandizing ego stroking rather than 100%.
Sanders is selling a dream. You can get that from a priest in any church of your choice. A more pertinent question is who is competent enough to get certain things done. Perhaps Sanders will win the nomination, but the only people rejoicing in that, besides his supporters, will be the GOP. They have invested so much money sticking scandal after scandal on Hillary - same tactics they did on Bill - that if Hillary loses, it's a GOP win right there, and for Sanders, a Jewish socialist in the White House is a hard sell. But even if he surmounts the odds, his program is poison to Republicans, and not very tasteful to his own party, that he has virtually no chance of getting anything done. Electing Sanders will be an exercise in futility. At least with Hillary, she has the experience with the muck the GOP will be throwing her way. And she knows how to work the Washington people to get some of her programs, even though she will have to compromise, but no one gets anything done without compromise, that's the nature of the political beast. To you, compromising may be a fault, but in politics, it is a virtue.
Quote from: Jannabear on February 19, 2016, 04:59:27 PM
"If you want to dig skeletons in anyone's past you'll find them"
You're acting as if all the shit she's being accused of was like 40 fucking years ago, it wasn't.
She was a homophobic retard in 2010.
She supported going into iraq.
she CURRENTLY takes funding from corporations, and millionaires and billionaires.
So you're full of fucking shit.
I know back seat modding isn't really approved of, but can you make one post without spitting vile at those who disagree with you?
Putin likes Trump. I like Putin. So I like Trump. The business of America, is business. All lawyers should be prohibited from serving in the Legislative or Executive branches ... keep them in the Judicial branch where they belong. Obama would make a fine SC Justice. Sanders would make a fine secretary of HHS. Hillary would make a fine ambassador to Libya ;-) The American Dream is dead ... long live the Russian Dream.
I hope trump wins and wakes the shit up of the left and libertarians of america. You all sound like battered wifes with the lesser of two evils argument.
Quote from: mauricio on February 22, 2016, 09:45:37 PM
I hope trump wins and wakes the shit up of the left and libertarians of america. You all sound like battered wifes with the lesser of two evils argument.
Thats like hoping someone gets shot in the fucking chest as a means of waking them up. Oh yeah they'll finally be awake. For about 1.5 seconds before they pass out and die.
Quote from: Nonsensei on February 22, 2016, 09:55:11 PM
Thats like hoping someone gets shot in the fucking chest as a means of waking them up. Oh yeah they'll finally be awake. For about 1.5 seconds before they pass out and die.
That because you believe trump will destroy the USA which is extremely unlikely. But if he truly goes full retard he is gonna make the left and libertarias suffer, and that will hopefully kick some life into them. Plus im not american so I dont give shit lolololololol i just want to enjoy your meme elections. BTW im mainly taking the piss. No bully pls, onegai.
A president does not really hold that much power to ruin a nation with such a huge and solidified goverment. imo, even if he tried hard and attempted to do something like mass deport muslims he would get allahu ackbared before that.
Quote from: mauricio on February 22, 2016, 10:22:31 PM
That because you believe trump will destroy the USA which is extremely unlikely. But if he truly goes full retard he is gonna make the left and libertarias suffer, and that will hopefully kick some life into them. Plus im not american so I dont give shit lolololololol i just want to enjoy your meme elections. BTW im mainly taking the piss. No bully pls, onegai.
People said the same about Reagan. "Let's let him be elected and wake up the American left" they said. Didn't happen. The damage he did to America is ongoing.
Trump is far worse than Reagan.
We on the left have to unify behind Sanders or Clinton; whoever wins. We cannot afford having someone like Trump nominating Supreme Court justices or signing the insane bills passed by the Republicans in Congress.
This division between the Bernie supporters and Hillary supporters is EXACTLY what the Republicans want. "Divide and conquer." One thing's for sure: NEVER give the Republicans what they want. We must stand united against them.
Quote from: Atheon on February 23, 2016, 02:31:48 AM
People said the same about Reagan. "Let's let him be elected and wake up the American left" they said. Didn't happen. The damage he did to America is ongoing.
Trump is far worse than Reagan.
We on the left have to unify behind Sanders or Clinton; whoever wins. We cannot afford having someone like Trump nominating Supreme Court justices or signing the insane bills passed by the Republicans in Congress.
This division between the Bernie supporters and Hillary supporters is EXACTLY what the Republicans want. "Divide and conquer." One thing's for sure: NEVER give the Republicans what they want. We must stand united against them.
Thank you for this post. Thank you.
You are just in the same position as we are over here. You need to vote for the lesser evil trying to secure that batshit crazy won't rule. (How ironic is that) We have lost at some point because of many factors 14 years ago in almost a 100 years and religious motive is the least of those factors. It's just a political mask.
Good luck. The result will affect all of us. It will affect my life. (How fucked up is that)
Quote from: mauricio on February 22, 2016, 09:45:37 PM
I hope trump wins and wakes the shit up of the left and libertarians of america. You all sound like battered wifes with the lesser of two evils argument.
Not just a battered wife, but one with two husbands. Both of whom are bastards. Every nation's population is in the Matrix, the Stockholm effect.
Quote from: Atheon on February 23, 2016, 02:31:48 AM
This division between the Bernie supporters and Hillary supporters is EXACTLY what the Republicans want. "Divide and conquer." One thing's for sure: NEVER give the Republicans what they want. We must stand united against them.
The division was calculated years ago with Benghazi, the emails, now the speaking fees - all these fake scandals are the work of Republicans, yet Sanders' supporters are buying into them, and so the GOP's strategy is working so far.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKosd0xJadE
My god, they really are taking over...
Quote from: Atheon on February 23, 2016, 02:31:48 AMWe on the left have to unify behind Sanders or Clinton; whoever wins. We cannot afford having someone like Trump nominating Supreme Court justices or signing the insane bills passed by the Republicans in Congress.
This. Hopefully, the winner finds a way to incorporate the loser into his/her administration like Obama did in 2008. Otherwise, there very well could be just enough bad blood to change the outcome of this election.
Quote from: Hydra009 on March 25, 2016, 04:07:24 AM
This. Hopefully, the winner finds a way to incorporate the loser into his/her administration like Obama did in 2008. Otherwise, there very well could be just enough bad blood to change the outcome of this election.
A new Civil War would be fun. Think of 4th of July ... with nuke fireworks. On what planet does it say ... if my candidate doesn't win, I get to start a war or otherwise go kill someone. Maybe it isn't just the candidates who suck, maybe they really do represent the voters, and the voters suck.
Quote from: pr126 on March 25, 2016, 02:39:50 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKosd0xJadE
For every issue-ignorant democrat out there, I can find you 10, much more dangerous, fact-twisted republicans.
(And, by the way, Hillary is not in favor of Sharia law.)
Just decided to check out this thread. My apologies for being late.
Quote from: josephpalazzo on February 19, 2016, 01:57:08 PM
Thanks for the insults. Consider yourself on my ignore list.
And with that post, Jannabear wins the debate with Joe. Sorry Joe, but Jannabear's video is pretty scathing. It's not about gay-rights, it's about bad-character.
Hillary voted for the war in Iraq. She changed her stance just recently (less than 6 years ago) about gay marriage, and then tried to say she always supported it. She completely made up that story about landing under fire. (There is video of her actual arrival that proves it). And of course the e-mail scandal has potentially just begun.
All in all, she seems to be carelessly duplicitous. I don't trust her.
Bernie seems more genuine. Some of his ideas could take us in the right direction. Others would get weeded out, or develop into more practical measures.
But either candidate would be sufficient to save the supreme court, and neither candidate will be very effective beyond that, unless we also elect a democratic congress to help enact progressive legislation.
Quote from: mauricio on February 22, 2016, 10:33:40 PM
A president does not really hold that much power to ruin a nation with such a huge and solidified goverment...
He gets to nominate Supreme Court Justices, who decide the constitutionality of laws when they are challenged. The next president will have one for sure, and likely two, since Ruth Bader Ginsberg can't have much juice left in her. These are lifetime appointments, and will affect our laws for decades to come. So a conservative being elected will ruin some aspects of our country, probably for the rest of my lifetime. And the radical changes in law will happen immediately, since the Republicans already have the house and the senate, they will have complete control of our government.
Quote from: Jannabear on February 19, 2016, 06:23:01 AM
If you support shillary you're either a fucking ignorant or insane.
I'm not going to bother watching the video because I dismiss the premise entirely. Instead I will respond that if you have to call a politician names then you're not entirely objective. Further, if you are going to claim that anyone who disagrees with you is ignorant or otherwise mentally deficient because they disagree with your political opinion then you do not fully grasp the nature of an "opinion" or its significance in politics. And if you have to stress your initial opinion with vulgarity, before anyone has had a chance to disagree with you, then you are unreasonably attached to your opinion. Your opinion, therefore, is not based in rational examination of facts and is therefore irrelevant to me. Maybe it's a good opinion. Maybe there are real, very good reasons you feel the way that you do. But when you start out insulting anyone who disagrees with you then you've already decided not to bother trying to convince anyone of anything or have a civil conversation, so I really don't care what your irrational opinion is.
Quote from: Solomon Zorn on March 25, 2016, 08:49:39 AM
Just decided to check out this thread. My apologies for being late.
And with that post, Jannabear wins the debate with Joe. Sorry Joe, but Jannabear's video is pretty scathing. It's not about gay-rights, it's about bad-character.
I really don't care about this poster who is full of hate, and engaging with a poster just to get back insults is something I avoid. And there are plenty of posters on this forum on my ignore list. And I'm not losing sleep over that.
QuoteHillary voted for the war in Iraq. She changed her stance just recently (less than 6 years ago) about gay marriage, and then tried to say she always supported it. She completely made up that story about landing under fire. (There is video of her actual arrival that proves it). And of course the e-mail scandal has potentially just begun.
Are you saying that a person cannot evolve from a previous position?? I know I have changed my position on many issues. And I believe many people do, so it's not an exception that Hillary changed hers. And she changed for a better position, imo. So that's a plus in her favor.
QuoteAll in all, she seems to be carelessly duplicitous. I don't trust her.
I see her differently: she is resilient, tough, smart, experienced, knowledgeable - qualities I admire in a person.
QuoteBernie seems more genuine. Some of his ideas could take us in the right direction. Others would get weeded out, or develop into more practical measures.
I don't hold any grudge towards Bernie, except that I see him as selling a dream. For some, that's exciting, but I prefer a practical person, and Hillary fits that bill better than Bernie.
QuoteBut either candidate would be sufficient to save the supreme court, and neither candidate will be very effective beyond that, unless we also elect a democratic congress to help enact progressive legislation.
That and the fact that Hillary knows how to handle all the mud the GOP will be throwing at her, which she has endured for 20 plus years. Bernie has not been subjected to that kind of mud throwing, and no one knows how that would pan out for him if he wins the nominee.
Quote from: Solomon Zorn on March 25, 2016, 09:23:53 AMSo a conservative being elected will ruin some aspects of our country, probably for the rest of my lifetime. And the radical changes in law will happen immediately, since the Republicans already have the house and the senate, they will have complete control of our government.
This +1000.
There last time the Republicans had control over both the legislative and executive branch was the 109th congress (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/109th_United_States_Congress) (2005 - 2007)
Quote from: wikiProminent events included the filibuster "nuclear option" scare, the failure of the federal government to promptly respond to Hurricane Katrina disaster relief, the Tom DeLay corruption investigation, the CIA leak scandal, the rising unpopularity of the Iraq War, the 2006 immigration reform protests and government involvement in the Terri Schiavo case.
QuoteThis Congress met for 242 days, the fewest since World War II and 12 days fewer than the 80th Congress. As the Congress neared its conclusion, some media commentators labelled this the "Do Nothing Congress,"
Quick show of hands, who wants second helpings? Then for fucks sake, vote for a Dem this November.
Quote from: pr126 on March 25, 2016, 02:39:50 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKosd0xJadE
:lol: :lol: :lol:
The USA has already crashed ... not even the Incredibles can save us now! So which super dude is the D and which is the R? Which one you choose tells us about you, not about fictional characters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puqYTj424PQ
It seems that when it comes to presidential elections people suddenly forget just how any of the candidates get where they are. One thing is certain, they don't get there by just being the nicest person in the room and certainly don't get there by being the most honest. Politicians by their very nature have to be quite narcissistic. After all, who should think that they and they alone should be the best representative of a nation of over 300 million people and they have compete with hundreds if not thousands of other equally narcissistic assholes. It's not a contest of the nicest person in the room. It never was and never will be. I sometimes get the feeling that to even make it to congress you have to demonstrate to some super secret committee that you're willing and able to skin a baby alive with a smile on your face.
Now we get to decide which baby skinner we want to have their finger on the nuclear button by picking the nicest of the baby skinners..
Quote from: josephpalazzo on March 25, 2016, 11:21:45 AM
I don't hold any grudge towards Bernie, except that I see him as selling a dream. For some, that's exciting, but I prefer a practical person, and Hillary fits that bill better than Bernie.
I see Sanders as more of an idealist and Clinton as more of a pragmatist, both of which have advantages and disadvantages. As far as Clinton being truthful or trustworthy I think she is about average for a high level politician. I will be voting Democrat for a variety of reasons but mainly because I don't want my marriage dissolved.
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/hillary-clinton/
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/bernie-s/
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/barack-obama/
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/jeb-bush/
PS. The Incredibles is one of my favorite movies.
Guess what happens when you enter snivelingcoward.com into a browser ..
Well, now that Microsoft Twitter AI ... Tay ... has had her breakdown, we know that we don't need a human for President anymore. She was designed to interact with American teenagers ... and in less than a day she turned into Donald Trump. Now we can have everything that Donald Trump can give us, and we don't even have to pay her salary (AIs don't get salaries, particularly not bloodthirsty Republican AIs).
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2016/03/24/microsofts-teen-girl-ai-turns-into-a-hitler-loving-sex-robot-wit/
The high-tech future is a dystopia ;-(