http://m.aljazeera.com/story/2013216235124227319 (http://m.aljazeera.com/story/2013216235124227319)
QuoteFour foreigners have been arrested in the eastern Libyan city of Benghazi on suspicion of being Christian missionaries and printing books about Christianity, a security official has said.
"They were arrested on Tuesday at a publishing house where they were printing thousands of books that called for conversion to Christianity," security official Hussein Bin Hmeid said on Saturday.
"Proselytising is forbidden in Libya. We are a 100 percent Muslim country and this kind of action affects our national security."
Hmeid said the government-affiliated security apparatus called the Preventative Security, for which he is a spokesman, had arrested an Egyptian, a South African, a Korean and a Swede who was travelling on a US passport.
"We are still holding interrogations and will hand them over to the Libyan intelligence authorities in a couple of days," Hmeid said, without giving further details.
The Preventative Security apparatus is a parallel security body created during the 2011 war that ousted Muammar Gaddafi and made up of several rebel brigades which fought in the conflict.
Libya's central government has yet to impose its authority on a myriad of armed groups who have yet to lay down their arms, and with skeletal national security forces, often relies on them for security.
Makes me kind of miss Gaddafi.
UGG shit, they ask for our help and then pull this shit.
Quote from: article"Proselytising is forbidden in Libya. We are a 100 percent Muslim country and this kind of action affects our national security."
Gadaffi was a Muslim too, dumbasses. How the fuck can you rightfully rail against a dictator then act like one yourselves?
Not sure if indignant over Muslim bigotry or thinking these are some stupid fucking christians.
Quote from: "stromboli"Not sure if indignant over Muslim bigotry or thinking these are some stupid fucking christians.
Stupid fucking christians.. You go to a nation you better know its laws or lack of.. Sympathy here lands exactly between shit and syphilis. That said, US State dept and the holy senators and reps of the house will put pressure to release them..
Quote from: "stromboli"Not sure if indignant over Muslim bigotry or thinking these are some stupid fucking christians.
I choose both.
True.. Rememer the Spy vs Spy cartoons? This is asswipes vs asswipes..
When I was stationed in Saudi, it was infuriating to me that Christians in our unit had to hide their faith, even as they were defending the Muslim "Holy Land" ... not because I was Christian (I had been atheist for ten years at that point), but because it seemed pretty ungrateful. The same here -- why did we help these intolerant rebels? This is a good argument, to me, to stay out of affairs that aren't our business.
Plus, it's funny to think that four mere mortals armed with pamphlets might be able to threaten Allah's universal "truth", and Libyan national security.
Go to a place that's obviously hostile to what you are doing, and get caught up in some shit. No sympathy from me. Let 'em rot. God will save them, right? Recently heard the xtians were up in arms about a minister in jail in Iran for "spreading the word." It's The Islamic Republic of Iran, you idiot. What part of that don't you get.
Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"When I was stationed in Saudi, it was infuriating to me that Christians in our unit had to hide their faith, even as they were defending the Muslim "Holy Land" ... not because I was Christian (I had been atheist for ten years at that point), but because it seemed pretty ungrateful. The same here -- why did we help these intolerant rebels? This is a good argument, to me, to stay out of affairs that aren't our business.
Plus, it's funny to think that four mere mortals armed with pamphlets might be able to threaten Allah's universal "truth", and Libyan national security.
Read up on Ibn Saud pre WWII. He was an ally then and since religion not withstanding..
Quote from: "AllPurposeAtheist"Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"When I was stationed in Saudi, it was infuriating to me that Christians in our unit had to hide their faith, even as they were defending the Muslim "Holy Land" ... not because I was Christian (I had been atheist for ten years at that point), but because it seemed pretty ungrateful. The same here -- why did we help these intolerant rebels? This is a good argument, to me, to stay out of affairs that aren't our business.
Plus, it's funny to think that four mere mortals armed with pamphlets might be able to threaten Allah's universal "truth", and Libyan national security.
Read up on Ibn Saud pre WWII. He was an ally then and since religion not withstanding..
Yeah, I know. But at the same time, the Christian members of my unit were facing jail time, in a Saudi jail, for wearing a crucifix or having a Bible on their possession. My context is not foreign policy, but rather, an insulting Status of Forces agreement that rendered the same GIs who defended them unable to express their faith. As much as I reject religion, of all stripes, I think that sort of churlishness is contemptible. If someone helps you (general pronoun, not personal) put out your house as it is ablaze, would you treat him poorly? That's my point.
Come on people,let's not be intolerant tho those Libyan Muslims.
They are only practicing their religion as proscribed.
Islam is the only true religion, everything else is false and forbidden.
As for those Christians threatening national security, well, the state is Islamic, and Islam is very, very insecure.
To the point of paranoia. That is why apostates have to be killed. (//http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=917pAS-Ccjs)
At the same time they will say to the ignorant kuffar that we all worship the same god.
Yeah. Right.
Quote from: "Rasputin"Quote from: "stromboli"Not sure if indignant over Muslim bigotry or thinking these are some stupid fucking christians.
I choose both.
This. Idiots on both sides.
Quote from: "Plu"Quote from: "Rasputin"Quote from: "stromboli"Not sure if indignant over Muslim bigotry or thinking these are some stupid fucking christians.
I choose both.
This. Idiots on both sides.
Maybe so.
But you will not find Christians imprisoning Muslims for proselytizing anywhere.
Which makes the moral equivalence unfounded.
Don't you think so? I guess not.
QuoteMaybe so. But you will not find Christians imprisoning Muslims for proselytizing anywhere.
I'm willing to bet there's some countries in africa where they'll just shoot them instead. Which is entirely besides the point as I know it's your life goal to pour shit on muslims and ignore everything else happening in the world, but hey.
QuoteI'm willing to bet there's some countries in africa where they'll just shoot them instead.
Evidence?
QuoteWhich is entirely besides the point as I know it's your life goal to pour shit on muslims and ignore everything else happening in the world, but hey.
Indeed.
But hey. If anything is more detestable that Islam, it is Christianity.
Let's pour shit on them and ignore everything else.
Apparently we both doing the same. Hypocrisy much?
Christianity ? Islam ? What's the difference ? Both religions are bullshit .
Quote from: "leo"Christianity ? Islam ? What's the difference ? Both religions are bullshit .
Certainly not.
Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance, and Christianity is war, oppression and hate.
Everybody knows that.
http://www.google.co.in/#hl=en&tbo=d&sc ... 24&bih=681 (http://www.google.co.in/#hl=en&tbo=d&sclient=psy-ab&q=%22atrocities+of+christian+missionaries%22&oq=%22atrocities+of+christian+missionaries%22&gs_l=hp.12..0i30.48403.51965.1.54416.2.2.0.0.0.0.336.547.2-1j1.2.0.les%3B..0.0...1c.1.3.psy-ab.cQNQKyA658k&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.42553238,d.aGc&fp=2b2af4d08f69cf35&biw=1024&bih=681)
Oh, how did I land up in Islam forum?
Quote from: "pr126"But you will not find Christians imprisoning Muslims for proselytizing anywhere.
Which makes the moral equivalence unfounded.
But we do find Christians who imprison, kill and rape homosexuals for the crime of just being alive.
Moral equivalence established.
Quote"Proselytising is forbidden in Libya.
It should be forbidden everywhere.
Quote from: "pr126"QuoteI'm willing to bet there's some countries in africa where they'll just shoot them instead.
Evidence?
QuoteWhich is entirely besides the point as I know it's your life goal to pour shit on muslims and ignore everything else happening in the world, but hey.
Indeed.
But hey. If anything is more detestable that Islam, it is Christianity.
Let's pour shit on them and ignore everything else.
Apparently we both doing the same. Hypocrisy much?
I'm pretty sure I pour shit on everyone, but only in their respective topics.
Quote from: "Jason78"Quote"Proselytising is forbidden in Libya.
It should be forbidden everywhere.
This.
You're wasting your time PR, these people's sum total experience of Muslims has been the guy who does their taxes or the guy who operates the store down the road. They have no idea about the oppression that goes on in Muslim countries or the intolerance that is inherent in Muslim culture. They think that Christianity is as bad as Islam, and nothing is going to open their eyes.
Quote from: "Bobby_Ouroborus"Quote from: "pr126"But you will not find Christians imprisoning Muslims for proselytizing anywhere.
Which makes the moral equivalence unfounded.
But we do find Christians who imprison, kill and rape homosexuals for the crime of just being alive.
Moral equivalence established.
This.
I gotta say, being threatened by the spread of information shows a truly remarkable insecurity in your own beliefs.
Quote from: "Horsefly"You're wasting your time PR, these people's sum total experience of Muslims has been the guy who does their taxes or the guy who operates the store down the road. They have no idea about the oppression that goes on in Muslim countries or the intolerance that is inherent in Muslim culture. They think that Christianity is as bad as Islam, and nothing is going to open their eyes.
Yep.
Quote from: "Horsefly"You're wasting your time PR, these people's sum total experience of Muslims has been the guy who does their taxes or the guy who operates the store down the road. They have no idea about the oppression that goes on in Muslim countries or the intolerance that is inherent in Muslim culture. They think that Christianity is as bad as Islam, and nothing is going to open their eyes.
Sam harris explained it quite eloquently on the idea that all religions are equal.
It is like equating religion to sport. But there is Thai kick boxing and there is chess. They are both sports.
The American atheist is more concerned with Christianity, and most have been Christians themselves, and having shed the faith they are angry about the wasted time in their lives spent on a lie, which is understandable. There is a lot of anger to get rid of.
But unlike Muslim apostates, they have no fear of their lives and property by Christians for leaving the religion.
That alone should make at least some difference. It doesn't.
Also, there is a minimal Muslim presence (less than 1 %) in the US to make Islam noticeable.
Very different from the situation we have in Western Europe, with open borders to all comers.
But yes, you are right. I am wasting my time. For now.
Except I'm not an American atheist, I'm from Western Europe, like you. And I live in a country with open borders for everyone, like you. With a lot of muslims immigrants, like you.
Quote from: "Plu"Except I'm not an American atheist, I'm from Western Europe, like you. And I live in a country with open borders for everyone, like you. With a lot of muslims immigrants, like you.
How nice for you.
Then I must be a right wing , hateful, xenophobic, racist islamophobe.
Contra naturam.
Very unlike you.
I don't remember calling you any names, nor trying to label you, except on the issue of having a one track mind, which was based on evidence of your posting history.
Considering I can't even remember the last time you posted about anything other than hatred of islam, I'd say it's fair to say that you have a one-track mind, and reasonable not to make any other assumptions about you since I have no clue you really are or what you're really like.
I have a hard time even picturing you as a person since you only post about one specific thing, really. It's hard to assign human traits to someone who can only talk about one thing.
Quote from: "Plu"I don't remember calling you any names, nor trying to label you, except on the issue of having a one track mind, which was based on evidence of your posting history.
Considering I can't even remember the last time you posted about anything other than hatred of islam, I'd say it's fair to say that you have a one-track mind, and reasonable not to make any other assumptions about you since I have no clue you really are or what you're really like.
I have a hard time even picturing you as a person since you only post about one specific thing, really. It's hard to assign human traits to someone who can only talk about one thing.
Is my hatred of Islam [the ideology] unjustified?
You think I should be sent to a re-education camp? Unfortunately there are no gulags [yet] in the UK.
Why is Christianity fair game for abuse but Islam is not?
Why the hell do you think there's anything I would want to do to you other than point out your exhibited behaviour? I don't think your hatred of Islam is unjustified at all, I just think it'd be nice to actually see you as a human being instead of some sort of bot that keeps bashing Islam in every post.
On the other hand, if this is how you act when you're not bashing Islam, please stop acting like a human being and go back to being a one-mind bot-thing.
Quote from: "Plu"Why the hell do you think there's anything I would want to do to you other than point out your exhibited behaviour? I don't think your hatred of Islam is unjustified at all, I just think it'd be nice to actually see you as a human being instead of some sort of bot that keeps bashing Islam in every post.
On the other hand, if this is how you act when you're not bashing Islam, please stop acting like a human being and go back to being a one-mind bot-thing.
Well Plu, I hate to see my adopted country (yes, I am an immigrant too) going down the pan.
I see what is happening, and it will get much, much worse in the coming years.
Odd that you cannot see that for yourself.
I grew up in a communist totalitarian country, so I have an idea what Islam is about.
If you were to see how Islam represses and punishes free speech, freedom of thought and freedom of religion, democracy, free inquiry, you too would pause to think.
Unless you have been taught not to question such things.
The only real difference between you and me, is that I'm not letting my hatred dictate my every word and move, I think.
I don't like Islam any more than you do, but I take some time in my life to do things other than hate on it. You seem to have a rather unhealthy life balance if you act in real life as you do on here, so I sincerely hope you have more hobbies in reality and just use this place as a venting pit of sorts.
I do have many other hobbies, yes. Islam takes only a fraction of my "life".
Besides, I am 70 next year, so I should not worry much what the future brings.
I'll probably won't be around to see it.
Good. At least I won't have to worry about you living a life filled only with hatred and negativity.
Quote from: "Plu"Good. At least I won't have to worry about you living a life filled only with hatred and negativity.
Thank you Plu. I didn't know you cared.
Oddly enough, you never worry about the hatred and negativity directed at Christianity.
Double standards? Surely not.
Quote from: "Plu"Why the hell do you think there's anything I would want to do to you other than point out your exhibited behaviour? I don't think your hatred of Islam is unjustified at all, I just think it'd be nice to actually see you as a human being instead of some sort of bot that keeps bashing Islam in every post.
On the other hand, if this is how you act when you're not bashing Islam, please stop acting like a human being and go back to being a one-mind bot-thing.
What do you mean by "bashing"?
This is an atheist website we "bash" all sorts of absurd claims. I bash claims of Ouija boards and tarrot cards and any other bullshit someone might spew.
Now, when it comes to Islam, I think you need to treat everyone here like individuals just as you want to be treated as an individual.
I hate the middle east in that it is still stuck in the past and about 100 years behind the rest of the western world and needs its age of enlightenment. I also hate ANY claim of a disembodied being, be it Thor or Marduke or Vishnu or Allah or God.
But, I do not hate Malala, she is a hero to the world and especially women. I can love her braveness without buying or liking the fact she believes in a god. I love my Catholic mother but I do hate, being a former Catholic myself, I do hate that she thinks eating a cracker will get her into eternity.
I do think some things deserve "bashing" just like if you had a friend who claimed they had an invisible friend named Frank. You might love them personally but you'd want to put them in a rubber room if they went around selling it.
So be careful about using the word "bashing" because you are doing such without putting that "bashing" in context.
And why shouldn't we hate people who slam planes into buildings? Do you like it when people shoot abortion doctors?
My term bashing was referring to the idea I have that every post pr126 has ever made, or at least every post by him that I remember, seems to be about only a single topic.
That kind of singlemindedness doesn't make you come across as a balanced person, so I'm glad to hear that it's just something he does on this forum. I don't mind his opinions, and share most of them, but it's the exclusion of all other topics on his side that made me call it bashing.
Someone who hates Islam is probably either a rational human being or a follower of a different religion, and both are fine. But someone who is entirely defined by his hatred for Islam, that sounds dangerously unbalanced. In fact, someone defined by their hatred of anything would be dangerously unbalanced.
QuoteBut someone who is entirely defined by his hatred for Islam, that sounds dangerously unbalanced.
Defined by whom? Who cares enough to notice my hatred for Islam,
the ideology?
One can "bash" Christianity and Christians to his or hers hearth content 24/7 and no one will raise an eyebrow. In fact, he will be cheered on.
One mention Islam, and he sounds dangerously unbalanced.
Would anyone rebuke me if I only had hatred for Christianity, never mentioning Islam?
Why the double standard?
Quote from: "StupidWiz"Quote from: "Horsefly"You're wasting your time PR, these people's sum total experience of Muslims has been the guy who does their taxes or the guy who operates the store down the road. They have no idea about the oppression that goes on in Muslim countries or the intolerance that is inherent in Muslim culture. They think that Christianity is as bad as Islam, and nothing is going to open their eyes.
Yep.
Been to Bahrain and the UAE as well. Is Singapore considered a Muslim nation?
Secular laws holding religion in check is the sole reason Christians are considered less violent. Look at how they terrorize doctors who provide abortions and seek to subvert our laws. They are just as dangerous as other fanatics. Remember Oklahoma City's bombing? Xian terrorist.
20411 terror attacks world wide since 9/11. Over a million corpses. (//http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/)
Compare and contrast. Or ignore.
Quote from: "Horsefly"You're wasting your time PR, these people's sum total experience of Muslims has been the guy who does their taxes or the guy who operates the store down the road. They have no idea about the oppression that goes on in Muslim countries or the intolerance that is inherent in Muslim culture. They think that Christianity is as bad as Islam, and nothing is going to open their eyes.
I lived in Teheran for four years, and was stationed TDY in Saudi Arabia for four months, and had some contact with them in SoCal as well. I still don't feel like I'm any expert on Muslims, myself. I reckon they're as diverse as Christians are in their religious outlooks, meaning that they're apt to cherry-picking the Quran as Christians do with the Bible.