on the same day that jihadists went on bloody rampage through Paris.
Great timing...
Quote
As jihadists rampaged through Paris on Friday night, radical panellists at a Muslim debate in Britain reportedly told of the duty to establish an Islamic state.
Speakers at the Quiz A Muslim event in Bedford included Taji Mustafah, of radical Islamic organisation Hizb-ut Tahrir, and Moazzem Begg, a former Guantanamo Bay inmate and founder of campaign group Cage, whose director called Jihadi John a ‘beautiful young man’.
The panellists said that there is an ‘Islamic’ duty to ‘struggle’ for an ‘Islamic state’, as 132 were executed in shootings and suicide bombings.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3319941/Radical-panellists-event-demand-establishment-Islamic-State.html
Quote'On the flip side none of them have broken any laws.’
I doubt they intend to keep it that way.
Always get second sources for Daily Mail article.
Then make them first sources.
Then remove the Daily Mail source.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on November 18, 2015, 10:45:52 AM
Always get second sources for Daily Mail article.
Then make them first sources.
Then remove the Daily Mail source.
archive.is guys learn to use it, fuck all those shitty articles from breitbart , salon , huffpost or whatever. I only post original links to decent articles to properly reward them with traffic and archive all the shitty articles.
BTW i do not doubt at all that was indeed said we are talking about an openly Islamist organization and fucking CAGE that has tons of disingenuous apologist speakers.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on November 18, 2015, 10:45:52 AM
Always get second sources for Daily Mail article.
Then make them first sources.
Then remove the Daily Mail source.
I suppose this is also a fabrication?1?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fST0Vmyim44&feature=youtu.be&t=12m56s
The British have been lax before regarding criminal speech at mosques in GB. So it is possible. Can't the people who were supposed to have spoken there, be interrogated? If they confirm what this ... source ... says, then I would say they are guilty of sedition. And if guilty of sedition, then severe penalties need to be applied according to their citizenship.
Whether Shariah can be optionally used in family court in Britain ... I have no idea. Jonb could have posted on that, but he was discouraged from posting further. In the US there is no question, that Shariah in family court should not be allowed, since we don't allow Bantustans in the US, unless you are Native American ;-)
But guys....guys....did you know Christians do bad things as well? And the west!
Quote from: The Skeletal Atheist on November 18, 2015, 12:56:23 PM
But guys....guys....did you know Christians do bad things as well? And the west!
Yes, and when Christians do bad things, we expose them as well. This forum is awash with threads criticizing Christians and their twisted versions of the world. But why is it when a thread exposes Islam and its evilness, some people here, presumably atheists or non-believers, have this urge to defend Islam? Why? Why? Why?
Quote from: josephpalazzo on November 18, 2015, 01:08:19 PM
Yes, and when Christians do bad things, we expose them as well. This forum is awash with threads criticizing Christians and their twisted versions of the world. But why is it when a thread exposes Islam and its evilness, some people here, presumably atheists or non-believers, have this urge to defend Islam? Why? Why? Why?
Did you miss my sarcasm or are you asking a serious question? I also would like to know as well how people here can defend a homophobic, sexist
ideology and the people who happily follow that ideology to the t.
Quote from: The Skeletal Atheist on November 18, 2015, 01:13:28 PM
Did you miss my sarcasm or are you asking a serious question. I would like to know as well how people here can defend a homophobic, sexist ideology and the people who happily follow that ideology to the t.
My bad, I didn't pick up your sarcasm. My apologies.
Quote from: josephpalazzo on November 18, 2015, 01:16:23 PM
My bad, I didn't pick up your sarcasm. My apologies.
It's all good, I should have dumbed down my response a bit, but then again that may have been an even more effective poe.
Islam as politics ... not my cut of tea. Politically I am neither liberal nor conservative. I have a problem with both capitalism and socialism.
I am fond of this website, because it is not religiously partisan ;-) It is genuinely skeptical of religion in general, not just the other guy's religion.
Islam as religion ... I am tolerant of how other people live, I am not an SJW. I am traditional, not progressive.
So by not chasing my tail in a circle while yapping loudly ... I am an Islamic apologist?
Self skepticism, is hard for both theists and atheists. I don't get my hopes up ;-)
Quote from: The Skeletal Atheist on November 18, 2015, 01:24:34 PM
It's all good, I should have dumbed down my response a bit, but then again that may have been an even more effective poe.
Because antiislam is taken as "pro western imperialism" a lot here
And alarmist
And racist
Religion isn't a race
I am truly afraid for Europe when it comes to Islam. It's not that I think Islam is inherently evil, it's that it's resolute and unyielding in it's desire to be the dominant culture wherever it goes. A lot of western European countries seem to have adopted a politically correct, tolerate stance on Islam, and Muslims seem to be taking advantage of the perceived weakness.
The few Europeans who I've talked to recently here in the states, especially Germans, have little national or cultural pride which I imagine is a convenient vacuum for Islam to fill. When I was younger, Brits were such a proud people, approaching on arrogance. Whatever happened to that national esteem?
If ya'll are comfortable with adopting sharia law in your attempt to be all inclusive, hey, go for it. I'm going to try to put up a little more resistance here in the states.
For fuck sakes: a tiny tiny group of people did this. Not "muslims".
Quote from: GrinningYMIR on November 18, 2015, 09:28:13 PM
Because antiislam is taken as "pro western imperialism" a lot here
And alarmist
And racist
Religion isn't a race
To simple minded folks ... to fight Islam, requires pro-Western imperialism ... they can't see Russia or China taking care of it.
To simple minded folks ... a dozen crazy armed people are the same as the Wehrmacht.
To simple minded folks ... Arabs are Muslims and Muslims are Arabs and are dark skinned.
To simple minded folks ... the fact that most Muslims are Indonesian and Indian (particularly we include Pakistan and Bangladesh) ... who are mostly a threat to themselves not the West.
Unfortunately enlightenment is no more to be found among atheists than among theists ... but a few humans get it.
And I just got thru listening to Hitchens in 2006 about Jefferson and the war against Islam. Bush/Obama is no Jefferson. And the Barbary pirates that were preying on Europeans and Americans 200 years ago, were considerably more a threat than Islam is today.
Quote from: facebook164 on November 19, 2015, 12:41:05 AM
For fuck sakes: a tiny tiny group of people did this. Not "muslims".
I call them Mohammedans. The followers of Muhammad.
This
tiny, tiny group has a lot of supporters, financiers, logistics, weapon providers, imams, who should not be ignored, they exist and they are quite a lot of people when added up. Not all of them are Muslims.
Just as culpable as the
"tiny tiny" group.
Jihad (holy war) is incumbent on EVERY Muslim.
Those who do not take part in the jihad are hypocrates who will burn in hell (according to the Islamic law.
But. Let's say that just 10 percent of 1.5 billion are jihadist. That tiny minority is then 150 million.
Add another 20 percent supporters, financiers, suppliers, planners, etc. The rest are looking the other way.
Quite an army. Not a tiny, tiny group at all.
Goodness, that doesn't agree with you fantasy. Must be a mistake.
European nations need to have the balls to tell Muslims who want a European Islamic state to stick their thumbs up their asses. If not, then they'll get swept away and they will deserve to. Quite frankly, if they capitulate to some loud Muslims, they'll capitulate to anyone. It would really be only a matter of time before they would capitulate to the fundamentalist christians that we've been sending you for a while.
That said...
Quote from: pr126 on November 19, 2015, 04:37:37 AM
Jihad (holy war) is incumbent on EVERY Muslim.
Just because jihad is incument on every Muslim doesn't mean every Muslim is going to be participating, or even a majority.
Quote from: pr126 on November 19, 2015, 04:37:37 AM
Those who do not take part in the jihad are hypocrates who will burn in hell (according to the Islamic law.
Then they go to hell, according to Islamic law as interpreted by those imams, etc. People always disobey laws, even holy laws â€" that's why they have to be stated in the first place.
Quote from: pr126 on November 19, 2015, 04:37:37 AM
But. Let's say that just 10 percent of 1.5 billion are jihadist. That tiny minority is then 150 million.
Add another 20 percent supporters, financiers, suppliers, planners, etc. The rest are looking the other way.
And of course, you made
both of those percentages up out of whole cloth. They don't mean anything.
Quote from: pr126 on November 19, 2015, 04:37:37 AM
Goodness, that doesn't agree with you fantasy. Must be a mistake.
Well, who cares if one man's fantasy conflicts with anothers?
Quote from: Hakurei Reimu on November 19, 2015, 07:47:14 AM
And of course, you made both of those percentages up out of whole cloth. They don't mean anything.
Over the weekend I saw an article about a Pew poll that asked Muslims if they thought suicide bombing was acceptable. The poll was conducted in several countries with large Muslim population. The countries involved contain about 45% of the world's Muslim population.
Average across all the countries polled more than 10% of the people that participated in the survey thought that suicide bombing was acceptable. Expanded out to the entire population of Muslims in those countries that's about 160,000,000 that support. Now let's throw some numbers at that total that we pull out of our ass. If 1% of that 160 million actively support terrorists it comes out to be 1.6 million people. All fighting forces use more people to provide logistics support than actual fighters. In the US military that number is about 8 to 1. For this discussion lets go with an even higher number and 10% for actual fighters. That comes out to 160,000 active fighters. By comparison the US military has about 1.362 million active duty personnel. At an 8 to 1 ratio that gives us about 152,000 fighters.
Given that we know Isis alone has at least a few tens of thousands fighters, and that we only included about 45% of the world's Muslims I don't think it's too far fetched to think that there is pool of Muslims willing to blow themselves up for Allah at least the size of the US military.
Quote from: PopeyesPappy on November 19, 2015, 08:33:15 AM
Over the weekend I saw an article about a Pew poll that asked Muslims if they thought suicide bombing was acceptable. The poll was conducted in several countries with large Muslim population. The countries involved contain about 45% of the world's Muslim population.
Average across all the countries polled more than 10% of the people that participated in the survey thought that suicide bombing was acceptable. Expanded out to the entire population of Muslims in those countries that's about 160,000,000 that support. Now let's throw some numbers at that total that we pull out of our ass. If 1% of that 160 million actively support terrorists it comes out to be 1.6 million people. All fighting forces use more people to provide logistics support than actual fighters. In the US military that number is about 8 to 1. For this discussion lets go with an even higher number and 10% for actual fighters. That comes out to 160,000 active fighters. By comparison the US military has about 1.362 million active duty personnel. At an 8 to 1 ratio that gives us about 152,000 fighters.
Given that we know Isis alone has at least a few tens of thousands fighters, and that we only included about 45% of the world's Muslims I don't think it's too far fetched to think that there is pool of Muslims willing to blow themselves up for Allah at least the size of the US military.
You are not helping.
It is simply too disturbing to believe that not all Muslims are moderate and peaceful.
So I don't believe that. It helps me sleeping at nights.
Reality is not for everybody.
If one looks at ISIS alone: it controls a territory the size of half of France, with 10 million people, and just from the sale of oil on the black market - an annual revenue of $400 million. Taking into consideration that it captured $2 billion worth of American military equipment when the the Iraqi army desisted, and you have quite something to think about.
Quote from: PopeyesPappy on November 19, 2015, 08:33:15 AM
Over the weekend I saw an article about a Pew poll that asked Muslims if they thought suicide bombing was acceptable. The poll was conducted in several countries with large Muslim population. The countries involved contain about 45% of the world's Muslim population.
Average across all the countries polled more than 10% of the people that participated in the survey thought that suicide bombing was acceptable. Expanded out to the entire population of Muslims in those countries that's about 160,000,000 that support. Now let's throw some numbers at that total that we pull out of our ass. If 1% of that 160 million actively support terrorists it comes out to be 1.6 million people. All fighting forces use more people to provide logistics support than actual fighters. In the US military that number is about 8 to 1. For this discussion lets go with an even higher number and 10% for actual fighters. That comes out to 160,000 active fighters. By comparison the US military has about 1.362 million active duty personnel. At an 8 to 1 ratio that gives us about 152,000 fighters.
Given that we know Isis alone has at least a few tens of thousands fighters, and that we only included about 45% of the world's Muslims I don't think it's too far fetched to think that there is pool of Muslims willing to blow themselves up for Allah at least the size of the US military.
i really wouldn't trust those polls much.
many of these people see white men as evil or Christian as evil.
i don't think it will be much different than amercan opinion on whether they should invade Afghanistan for 9/11
or sanction iran for nuclear thingy
The Islamic State is something of a misnomer. In reality, it is not a sovereign state with defined borders as we understand.
It is a Caliphate.
Where politics, law, economy, everything is governed by sharia. There cannot be a separation of religion and state.
Islam does not believe in a nation state, or borders. It is the ummah.
It's goal is to spread accross the planet, as the whole planet belongs to Allah, and Muslims are the custodians of it.
The aim is to cleanse the world of kufr, not necessarely for everybody to be a Muslim, but everybody must be under Muslim rule.
Sharia is not just for Muslims, but for all.
well yeah
there is only one god who made everything
so human all have to follow god's law
that is common sense :confused:
Quote from: pr126 on November 19, 2015, 04:37:37 AM
I call them Mohammedans. The followers of Muhammad.
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff277/josephpalazzo/CTyRsffWUAAAJhm1.jpg) (http://s243.photobucket.com/user/josephpalazzo/media/CTyRsffWUAAAJhm1.jpg.html)
Arrested for quoting Winston Churchill: European election candidate accused of religious and racial harassment after he repeats wartime prime minister’s words on Islam during campaign speech (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2614834/Arrested-quoting-Winston-Churchill-European-election-candidate-accused-religious-racial-harassment-repeats-wartime-prime-ministers-words-Islam-campaign-speech.html)
Quote from: CloneKai on November 19, 2015, 10:53:07 AM
i really wouldn't trust those polls much.
many of these people see white men as evil or Christian as evil.
i don't think it will be much different than amercan opinion on whether they should invade Afghanistan for 9/11
or sanction iran for nuclear thingy
Probably correct ... but for example, 20% of Americans are anti-Jewish ... so that means I have about 65 million enemies in my own country. I am not very worried about Muslims in India coming to get me. If I were a political candidate in Pakistan or Bangladesh ... I might be concerned.
At one time, Churchill praised both Mussolini and Hitler.
Technically, Shia don't follow Muhammad, but some ayatollah. This is why the Sunnis hate them ... they won't create an idolatry out of Muhammad.
While there may be one G-d, nobody agrees on which one.
QuoteWhile there may be one G-d, nobody agrees on which one.
A schizophrenic one for sure. With several other mental disorders.
God is a ceation of man. Each version is the projection of the "prophet" that created it.
Allah for example is the creation and projection of Muhammad, who had frontal lobe epilepsy, malignant narcissist, psychopathology, mysogyny, paedophile, pervert mass murderer.
We all see what kind of god he created. It's in the Quran, sunna and sira.
Quote from: Baruch on November 19, 2015, 12:11:51 PM
Probably correct ... but for example, 20% of Americans are anti-Jewish ... so that means I have about 65 million enemies in my own country. I am not very worried about Muslims in India coming to get me. If I were a political candidate in Pakistan or Bangladesh ... I might be concerned.
At one time, Churchill praised both Mussolini and Hitler.
Technically, Shia don't follow Muhammad, but some ayatollah. This is why the Sunnis hate them ... they won't create an idolatry out of Muhammad.
While there may be one G-d, nobody agrees on which one.
don't mind me asking, why are you a theist again :eh:
Quote from: pr126 on November 19, 2015, 12:00:11 PM
Arrested for quoting Winston Churchill: European election candidate accused of religious and racial harassment after he repeats wartime prime minister’s words on Islam during campaign speech (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2614834/Arrested-quoting-Winston-Churchill-European-election-candidate-accused-religious-racial-harassment-repeats-wartime-prime-ministers-words-Islam-campaign-speech.html)
What happened after the arrest? Was he charged? Jailed? Fine? WTF is wrong with the UK? No wonder Scotland wants to separate.
Quote from: PopeyesPappy on November 19, 2015, 08:33:15 AM
Over the weekend I saw an article about a Pew poll that asked Muslims if they thought suicide bombing was acceptable. The poll was conducted in several countries with large Muslim population. The countries involved contain about 45% of the world's Muslim population.
"Thinking suicide bombing was acceptable" ≠"being willing to engage in suicide bombings."
Without people engaging in suicide bombings, it's not going to happen no matter how many Muslims think it's acceptable.
Similarly, "jihad" (holy war) ≠"suicide bombings."
There are limits to how far you'll carry any blanket statement. The lack of recognition of such limits is what leads to idiocies like "turbolasers cannot hurt Federation shields (Star Trek)". (Hijiri knows about this one.)
Unless you have a good estimate how many muslims would actually go through and prosecute a full jihad against whomever, any of your figures you might put forward is simply meaningless. It's just numerical alchemy.
Quote from: pr126 on November 19, 2015, 09:13:00 AM
You are not helping.
It is simply too disturbing to believe that not all Muslims are moderate and peaceful.
Of course they're not all moderate and peaceful.
They're also not all warmongering and could stomach actually killing someone.
The same way not all christians are moderate and peaceful nor all warmongers and killers and child molesters.
So again, who cares if one man's fantasy conflicts with anothers? You've shown yourself to be no more "Islamorealist" as anyone else.
From Taslima Nasreen, well known author, poet and physician, who also is exiled on accounts of death threats (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taslima_Nasrin)
QuoteISIS distorts Islam? Nope. Moderate Muslims distort Islam. Don't believe it? Read the Quran. (https://twitter.com/taslimanasreen/status/667262934003814400?s=09)
For those who live in their comfort of their living room and like to philosophize on what Islam means, think twice. There are people who are paying the price for such apathy towards a religion that shows no mercy for those who reject it.
The NWO doesn't take prisoners either ... just ask Brazil, Russia, India, China. Brazil and Russia are currently suffering from economic warfare from Nato/US. India is suffering from currency war against the rupee (see China). China has had a series of mysterious industrial explosions.
I am sure that the arm chair liberals in the BRICs are quislings too.
Quote from: CloneKai on November 19, 2015, 12:39:02 PM
don't mind me asking, why are you a theist again :eh:
I have been a tolerant theist since childhood. Some here have been atheist since childhood. Many others became atheist after being theist during childhood or adulthood.
My reasons are primarily metaphysical and traditional ... not conservative or radical. I am comfortable with traditional cultural elements, but not wedded to them. My approach to theism is primarily spiritual and philosophical, not religious (aka social or political). I have self-studied most religions and spiritualities and am knowledgable, because I study constantly in multiple subjects. But I am also comfortable with secularism. People are the most interesting subject, and which I am most sympathetic to.
Quote from: pr126 on November 19, 2015, 12:35:56 PM
A schizophrenic one for sure. With several other mental disorders.
God is a ceation of man. Each version is the projection of the "prophet" that created it.
Allah for example is the creation and projection of Muhammad, who had frontal lobe epilepsy, malignant narcissist, psychopathology, mysogyny, paedophile, pervert mass murderer.
We all see what kind of god he created. It's in the Quran, sunna and sira.
All religion is psychological ... that is exactly so. But the problem remains, that human psychology is a wicked thing sometimes. I think if we examined closely, most nation creators are ... unbalanced. But I can approach Muhammad clinically ... I feel no reason to judge him ... or Hitler. But armed psychopaths ... are to be taken seriously, no matter their religion.
Quote from: Hakurei Reimu on November 19, 2015, 01:43:27 PM
"Thinking suicide bombing was acceptable" ≠"being willing to engage in suicide bombings."
Without people engaging in suicide bombings, it's not going to happen no matter how many Muslims think it's acceptable.
So it's of no consequence that a significant percentage think it's ok because not all of them will do it? I call bullshit.
Even if they aren't themselves engaging in it, they are enabling others to do so. Without that support structure do you really think so many would do so?
Junkies also have people who refuse to condemn their bullshit, look at how much good that does.
QuoteSimilarly, "jihad" (holy war) ≠"suicide bombings."
True. It also includes throwing homosexuals off roofs while a crowd below cheers, beheading journalists, and shooting or raping children.
QuoteThere are limits to how far you'll carry any blanket statement. The lack of recognition of such limits is what leads to idiocies like "turbolasers cannot hurt Federation shields (Star Trek)". (Hijiri knows about this one.)
Unless you have a good estimate how many muslims would actually go through and prosecute a full jihad against whomever, any of your figures you might put forward is simply meaningless. It's just numerical
Of course they're not all moderate and peaceful.
They're also not all warmongering and could stomach actually killing someone.
I'm against generalizations, and I realize that most Muslims aren't a personal threat to me. That being said, forgive me if I'm a little wary towards people who follow a homophobic and sexist religion. The same is true of devote Christians.
QuoteThe same way not all christians are moderate and peaceful nor all warmongers and killers and child molesters.
Yet we're free to condemn and criticize Christians and Christianity. When it comes to Muslims and Islam? "Christians did bad things as well!" "The west is to blame!" "CRUSADES!!!"
Quote
So again, who cares if one man's fantasy conflicts with anothers? You've shown yourself to be no more "Islamorealist" as anyone else.
I consider myself as a realist when it comes to religion. It's shit.
I honestly don't know what to think anymore.
I'm kinda frustrated by the self-appointed "liberals" who excuse the blatant Wahhabism (if that term still applies) of Muslims and ignore the silent "moderate" Muslim majority who say nothing against their reactionary counterparts. #NotInMyName my ass. Decry them and single them out, don't play the silent game.
Also, why the hell does the EU and the "liberals" play these terrorists-are-not-real-Muslims card at every turn? They sure have the backing of the Qur'an behind them; wake the fuck up.
I guess I wish the politicians in EU would take a much tougher stance against religion in general and Islam in particular.
QuoteAlso, why the hell does the EU and the "liberals" play these terrorists-are-not-real-Muslims card at every turn? They sure have the backing of the Qur'an behind them; wake the fuck up.
Violent jihad or holy war. It is outside their comfort zone.
It is easy to convince oneself in a mental panacea that not all Muslims are terrorist.
For some, that is what they chose to believe.
Just a distant thunder, the storm is still far away. Let's get back to sleep.
Unfortunately the storm is getting closer by the day. The day will come when it cannot be ignored any longer. Reality will smack you in the face.
That will be the wake up time. But it could be too late.
Oh dear, what to do, what to do.
Well, first stop importing them by the millions. Second, stop sucking up to them. Third, stop lying to yourselves.
There are many more options available that doesn't require guns and bombs.
Just some common sense. Which is in desperate shortage lately.
Here is some advice from an old timer:
Stop hating yourselves.
Stop hating your country, your culture.
Stop the nonsense of 'white privilege', SJW crap, college revolts for imaginary slights.
You are being conditioned, manipulated, indoctrinated to self destruction.
Freethinkers? I don't think so. Get some sense FFS!
I expect this is another post which will get a few feathers ruffled.
You know who you are.
Quote from: facebook164 on November 19, 2015, 12:41:05 AM
For fuck sakes: a tiny tiny group of people did this. Not "muslims".
but if this keeps up we may have to genocide them
Sal1981 - Maybe some Europeans don't want to make war on an "adjective". The terrorists in Paris were home-grown, not refugees.
Pr126 - On the one hand, the idea that you associate liberal college students with terrorists, and tie in "white privilege" says your thinking is in the kitchen sink ;-( On the other hand ... really not controversial this time. Nobody actually supports terrorists here ... they just disagree as to who they are and who pays for them.
Facebook164 ... who is "them" ... all brown people? Do terrorists have a big T on their foreheads? They are irregular soldiers and/or criminals. We can get rid of all the terrorists in Paris by nuking Paris ... just the kind of collateral damage America is good at ;-(
Quote from: Baruch on November 20, 2015, 07:19:25 AM
Facebook164 ... who is "them" ... all brown people? Do terrorists have a big T on their foreheads? They are irregular soldiers and/or criminals. We can get rid of all the terrorists in Paris by nuking Paris ... just the kind of collateral damage America is good at ;-(
This should have been directed to "draconic aiur"
Quote from: Baruch on November 20, 2015, 07:19:25 AM
We can get rid of all the terrorists in Paris by nuking Paris ... just the kind of collateral damage America is good at ;-(
It could happen eventually, although not Paris. There are other countries besides the US in the nuclear club. And now with Islam in the club, I can picture a nuclear exchange. In fact, I think it's more likely than the Cold War Mexican standoff with the Soviet Union, which lacked the religious underpinnings. I picture an astounding amount of collateral damage, most in the Mideast, but also limited pockets in the west. I don't think the US will start the exchange. Nor do I see anything getting settled once and for all. The underlying religious fanaticism will still exist, but it will be reduced in numbers and supporters for a time.
Muslim states should never get nukes, and we should make assure of that, IMO.
Apparently Obama is OK with Iran getting tooled up with nukes.
The Sunni lot (Saudis, Jordan, Egypt, the Gulf states) are just as worried.
The Saudis are secretly allying with Israel although Israel cannot do it alone, and the US is no help.
Quote from: pr126 on November 20, 2015, 10:02:38 AM
Apparently Obama is OK with Iran getting tooled up with nukes.
This is really strange to me. I expect him to be ridden hard by Republicans on this, but then I give all their opinions about Obama exactly zero weight. Most of the time, I just tune out when they start bitching about Obama, which now that I think about it, is all they ever seem to really do. I've been keeping an ear out for the rationale behind this Iran thing, but I've heard nothing so far, so I'm just scratching my head wondering why this isn't supposed to bite us.
Quote from: Baruch on November 20, 2015, 07:19:25 AM
Pr126 - On the one hand, the idea that you associate liberal college students with terrorists, and tie in "white privilege" says your thinking is in the kitchen sink ;-( On the other hand ... really not controversial this time. Nobody actually supports terrorists here ... they just disagree as to who they are and who pays for them.
Pr126 is spot on with this one. This pseudo liberal ideology is willing to toss aside civil rights in order prevent offense and protect select beliefs from criticism. Ironically, Islam seems to be one of those sacred cows. Strange bedfellows.
The problem as I see it it is not that just Iran is getting the nukes, but to whom else they might "out source" it.
Like the Pakistani A. Q. Khan (http://www.britannica.com/biography/Abdul-Qadeer-Khan) who was selling his stolen goods to anyone with cash.
Nuclear proliferation.
There are just too many crazies who want to get their hands on those for the glory of Allah.
It doesn't have to be a nation state.
It doesn't have to be a missile either.
It can be smuggled in a suitcase anywhere, still big enough to make an impression. And a big pile of dead bodies.
Or an EMP attack (http://allnewspipeline.com/EMP_Attack_Difference_Between_Life_And_Death.php) which would put the USA back to the 18th century.
Quote from: pr126 on November 20, 2015, 11:17:53 AM
The problem as I see it it is not that just Iran is getting the nukes, but to whom else they might "out source" it.
There are just too many crazies who want to get their hands on those for the glory of Allah.
It doesn't have to be a nation state.
I don't trust nation states, but I do worry most about the small groups.
An interview with Asra Nomani, a Muslim woman fighting against not only Islam but the fucking liberals who side with the terrorists - her own words.
Quote from: Jack89 on November 20, 2015, 10:50:28 AM
Pr126 is spot on with this one. This pseudo liberal ideology is willing to toss aside civil rights in order prevent offense and protect select beliefs from criticism. Ironically, Islam seems to be one of those sacred cows. Strange bedfellows.
No sacred cows here ... other than American ubermenschen. Other media ... not my problem. Also African-Americans not wanting to be murdered by overzealous cops ... is understandable ... I don't see any reputable African-Americans supporting the Crips.
Quote from: pr126 on November 20, 2015, 11:17:53 AM
The problem as I see it it is not that just Iran is getting the nukes, but to whom else they might "out source" it.
Like the Pakistani A. Q. Khan (http://www.britannica.com/biography/Abdul-Qadeer-Khan) who was selling his stolen goods to anyone with cash.
Nuclear proliferation.
There are just too many crazies who want to get their hands on those for the glory of Allah.
It doesn't have to be a nation state.
It doesn't have to be a missile either.
It can be smuggled in a suitcase anywhere, still big enough to make an impression. And a big pile of dead bodies.
Or an EMP attack (http://allnewspipeline.com/EMP_Attack_Difference_Between_Life_And_Death.php) which would put the USA back to the 18th century.
Russia has nukes, they gave it to the Chinese and N Koreans. The Russians don't know where all their suitcase nukes are. Bad inventory that. The N Koreans gave nukes to Pakistan, and tried to give it to the Iraqis and Syrians. The Indians have nukes too. So I guess there are 6 billion people we need to pre-emptively go to nuclear war with ... just in case they get ideas themselves, or loan nukes to terrorists?
Quote from: Sal1981 on November 20, 2015, 08:05:07 AM
Muslim states should never get nukes, and we should make assure of that, IMO.
Too late .. Pakistan already has them. Or do you think only Arabs and Persians are stupid?
Quote from: pr126 on November 20, 2015, 10:02:38 AM
Apparently Obama is OK with Iran getting tooled up with nukes.
The Sunni lot (Saudis, Jordan, Egypt, the Gulf states) are just as worried.
The Saudis are secretly allying with Israel although Israel cannot do it alone, and the US is no help.
SA will have nukes, one day after Iran has them ... feel better now ;-(
Quote from: SGOS on November 20, 2015, 10:41:51 AM
This is really strange to me. I expect him to be ridden hard by Republicans on this, but then I give all their opinions about Obama exactly zero weight. Most of the time, I just tune out when they start bitching about Obama, which now that I think about it, is all they ever seem to really do. I've been keeping an ear out for the rationale behind this Iran thing, but I've heard nothing so far, so I'm just scratching my head wondering why this isn't supposed to bite us.
The US cut a backroom deal. The public isn't supposed to know. Same as the secret deal between Ibn Saud (of SA) and FDR in 1944. As a citizen, just STFU and pay your taxes on time ;-)
Quote from: SGOS on November 20, 2015, 07:57:54 AM
It could happen eventually, although not Paris. There are other countries besides the US in the nuclear club. And now with Islam in the club, I can picture a nuclear exchange. In fact, I think it's more likely than the Cold War Mexican standoff with the Soviet Union, which lacked the religious underpinnings. I picture an astounding amount of collateral damage, most in the Mideast, but also limited pockets in the west. I don't think the US will start the exchange. Nor do I see anything getting settled once and for all. The underlying religious fanaticism will still exist, but it will be reduced in numbers and supporters for a time.
Unfortunately ... this has been thought of since 1945. There is no reason to believe that humans will survive even one more year ... but they keep on surviving pessimists anyway.
Quote from: pr126 on November 20, 2015, 11:17:53 AM
The problem as I see it it is not that just Iran is getting the nukes, but to whom else they might "out source" it.
Like the Pakistani A. Q. Khan (http://www.britannica.com/biography/Abdul-Qadeer-Khan) who was selling his stolen goods to anyone with cash.
Nuclear proliferation.
There are just too many crazies who want to get their hands on those for the glory of Allah.
It doesn't have to be a nation state.
It doesn't have to be a missile either.
It can be smuggled in a suitcase anywhere, still big enough to make an impression. And a big pile of dead bodies.
Or an EMP attack (http://allnewspipeline.com/EMP_Attack_Difference_Between_Life_And_Death.php) which would put the USA back to the 18th century.
I live in the country ... I am sure I can trade work for a horse, eventually. Besides, nuclear war ends global warming ... with a short very hot warming that with nuclear winter, will chill down in no time ;-)
Quote from: SGOS on November 20, 2015, 11:23:03 AM
I don't trust nation states, but I do worry most about the small groups.
Learn to live with the "bomb" or die from worry. Your choice.
Quote from: Baruch on November 20, 2015, 12:59:19 PM
Learn to live with the "bomb" or die from worry. Your choice.
We have all learned to live with the bomb, and I'm not planning on dying from worry. Perhaps concern would be a better word. I assume your response is to create the impression of a cavalier individual who doesn't care: "Oh Hell, give Iran the bomb. It will be OK." Or maybe it was an attempt at dark humor. This isn't the same game from 1945, and the players are changing. The Soviet Union wasn't a nation state driven by crazy imams with a belief in the glory of destruction in the name of a non existent god as the path to heavenly reward. Yes, the US and Russia may be crazy, but we are talking about a new level of armed crazy that increases the risk. If you think this is a good idea, we will just have to disagree.
Quote from: Baruch on November 19, 2015, 07:04:44 PM
I have been a tolerant theist since childhood. Some here have been atheist since childhood. Many others became atheist after being theist during childhood or adulthood.
My reasons are primarily metaphysical and traditional ... not conservative or radical. I am comfortable with traditional cultural elements, but not wedded to them. My approach to theism is primarily spiritual and philosophical, not religious (aka social or political). I have self-studied most religions and spiritualities and am knowledgable, because I study constantly in multiple subjects. But I am also comfortable with secularism. People are the most interesting subject, and which I am most sympathetic to.
Damn it!
where is that dictionary
metaphysical ... metaphysical ...metaphysical
"The branch of philosophy that deals with the first principles of things, including abstract concepts such as being, knowing, identity, time, and space"
ah fuck, that didn't help
"Metaphysics has two main strands: that which holds that what exists lies beyond experience (as argued by Plato), and that which holds that objects of experience constitute the only reality (as argued by Kant, the logical positivists, and Hume)"
its seems all hokus pokus to me. :017:
"tolerant theist"
Haha
I like the term, tolerant theist.
"traditional". like if i am a traditional muslim, i won't pray 5 times a day but still slit the goat throats, and watch it as it thrashes itself to death?
Sorry, we don't have traditional muslim, where i come from. either you are religious (meaning you pray atleast 5 times a day) or not religious (prays once a week).
so traditional means, in your case, kosher meat or something. and Bar mitzah and stuffs?
"spiritual"
spiritual ...spiritual ... spiritual
"Relating to or affecting the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things"
sh!t
"Having a relationship based on a profound level of mental or emotional communion"
...
Do you like using terms to confuse normal people :41:
why can't you just say i believe the goats made us all and thus all goats are god. see simple and not confusing idea.
i am guessing, you are talking about inner brain feelings and those stuffs. but a person like you, will know thats all chemistry nothing more.
so you are a theist.
"Belief in the existence of a god or gods, specifically of a creator who intervenes in the universe"
so if the definition is correct, then you kinda believe in some form of higher being or existence.
so simple question, why are you a theist? even if you are a theist from only from philosophical point of view.
All definitions are from oxforddictionaries.com
Quote from: The Skeletal Atheist on November 20, 2015, 01:08:12 AM
So it's of no consequence that a significant percentage think it's ok because not all of them will do it? I call bullshit.
Even if they aren't themselves engaging in it, they are enabling others to do so. Without that support structure do you really think so many would do so?
same can be said about Americans for invasion of Afghanistan and iraq and then the sanction of Iran.
Quote from: The Skeletal Atheist on November 20, 2015, 01:08:12 AM
True. It also includes throwing homosexuals off roofs while a crowd below cheers, beheading journalists, and shooting or raping children.
sh!ty countries like Pakistan only have imprisonment for homosexuals and that too because United kingdom put it there. Apparently LGBT communities are becoming slightly more acceptable in the country too but i don't know anything about it.
I think the world super power used to have laws against sodomy, when were these laws removed?
Quote from: The Skeletal Atheist on November 20, 2015, 01:08:12 AM
I'm against generalizations, and I realize that most Muslims aren't a personal threat to me. That being said, forgive me if I'm a little wary towards people who follow a homophobic and sexist religion. The same is true of devote Christians.
Yet we're free to condemn and criticize Christians and Christianity. When it comes to Muslims and Islam? "Christians did bad things as well!" "The west is to blame!" "CRUSADES!!!"I consider myself as a realist when it comes to religion. It's shit.
i wish you were more human realistic too.
Quote from: Sal1981 on November 20, 2015, 01:25:09 AM
I honestly don't know what to think anymore.
I'm kinda frustrated by the self-appointed "liberals" who excuse the blatant Wahhabism (if that term still applies) of Muslims and ignore the silent "moderate" Muslim majority who say nothing against their reactionary counterparts. #NotInMyName my ass. Decry them and single them out, don't play the silent game.
Also, why the hell does the EU and the "liberals" play these terrorists-are-not-real-Muslims card at every turn? They sure have the backing of the Qur'an behind them; wake the fuck up.
I guess I wish the politicians in EU would take a much tougher stance against religion in general and Islam in particular.
most silent muslim moderate sees injustice all over the place, so that is why they don't raise the voice against one group who is kinda fighting injustice of one another with injustice. especially if they think the west are evil thus apparently doing evil becomes an option.
here are some muslim views you can see for yourself
http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?457108-Pray4Paris
http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?457524-Did-Prophet-Muhammad-%28pbuh%29-tell-muslims-to-attack-civillians
http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?457651-ISIS-fans-do-you-remember
though i wish muslim would charge these extremist muslim with blasphemy laws instead.
"Also, why the hell does the EU and the "liberals" play these terrorists-are-not-real-Muslims card at every turn? They sure have the backing of the Qur'an behind them; wake the fuck up."
i would guess they don't want to influence the hate crime against muslim population and maybe keep their allies.
Quote from: Sal1981 on November 20, 2015, 08:05:07 AM
Muslim states should never get nukes, and we should make assure of that, IMO.
hahahaha
too late
my country is said to have more than 100 nukes
and now are working on portable nukes
Quote from: The Skeletal Atheist on November 20, 2015, 01:08:12 AM
So it's of no consequence that a significant percentage think it's ok because not all of them will do it? I call bullshit.
Even if they aren't themselves engaging in it, they are enabling others to do so. Without that support structure do you really think so many would do so?
The point is that we must differentiate the people who would only support blowing themselves up to people actually blowing themselves up, and with those who would wage jihad on the west.
Another thing is that "support" is a weasel word. It only sounds significant, but is so vagely defined that it could mean anything, from only lip-service (which hardly helps terrorists) to material support.
Finally, people probably have a specific scenario in mind when they envision supporting a suicide bomber. The west's behavior in the Middle East has been... less than stellar, to say the least. It's a highly unsymmetric struggle, in a region where we don't seem to be doing much other than occupy and prevent people from developing the way they themselves would like, making it seem like 'freedom' is something only those of European descent deserve.
And then I remember, we Americans fought a war for
exactly those reasons, against the British. We fought the British because the British were interfering with our shit. The way that we are now interfering with the Middle East's shit, interference that we've engaged in for decades up to the present moment.
There are certainly scenarios under which I would cheerfully not only support suicide bombings, but be one of its willing participants: if I thought that blowing myself up in Cthulu's throat would stop or waylay it, I would certainly do it. Cthulu's return would be a serious fucking deal that normal considerations of right and wrong make moot very quickly. This is an extreme scenario, but then I hold life to be very dear. It is easy to see that a doctrine that devalues life would then do similar things to other people in less extreme circumstances. To them,
we are Cthulu.
Quote from: The Skeletal Atheist on November 20, 2015, 01:08:12 AM
Junkies also have people who refuse to condemn their bullshit, look at how much good that does.
It doesn't, which is why it's up to the rest of us to set people straight. However, nobody thinks that killing the junkie is called for.
Quote from: The Skeletal Atheist on November 20, 2015, 01:08:12 AM
True. It also includes throwing homosexuals off roofs while a crowd below cheers, beheading journalists, and shooting or raping children.
All terrible things, to be sure. And when they do it here, we bring charges against them.
And when a Christian does horrible things obstenoulsly in the name of the Lord, Christians are just as quick to disconnect Christianity from their actions. Sometimes, they're right.
Quote from: The Skeletal Atheist on November 20, 2015, 01:08:12 AM
I'm against generalizations, and I realize that most Muslims aren't a personal threat to me. That being said, forgive me if I'm a little wary towards people who follow a homophobic and sexist religion. The same is true of devote Christians.
And the Christians have been largely broght to heel, haven't they? Sort of. What is the difference between Islam and Christianity that means that Islam won't? Nobody has ever been able to present an argument that has ever been convincing to me.
Furthermore, we allow those devout Christians to keep their religion. As long as they obey secular laws, they're allowed to be as Christian as they like. I'm just willing to extend the same curtesy to Muslims.
Quote from: The Skeletal Atheist on November 20, 2015, 01:08:12 AM
Yet we're free to condemn and criticize Christians and Christianity. When it comes to Muslims and Islam? "Christians did bad things as well!" "The west is to blame!" "CRUSADES!!!"
Have I ever argued this? No? Then it's just a strawman.
The only argument that I have ever put forward that parallels any of the above is, "Christians does bad things as well!" But note the tense of the verb: not 'did' â€" 'does.' Christian african shitholes also do exactly the shit you describe and dispise. Yes, present tense.
When a country is reduced to shithole status, the ugly side of both Christianity and Islam come out in their populations.
Quote from: The Skeletal Atheist on November 20, 2015, 01:08:12 AM
I consider myself as a realist when it comes to religion. It's shit.
No argument that religion is shit. Yet we allow these people to keep their religion despite the fact that it is shit, and will under the right circumstances cause the shit to surface and harm people.
Quote from: josephpalazzo on November 20, 2015, 11:25:12 AM
An interview with Asra Nomani, a Muslim woman fighting against not only Islam but the fucking liberals who side with the terrorists - her own words.
Bill Maher isn't exactly fair with muslim either
other than in the last show in which he finally asked why do they hate us
he always went out of his way to blame muslims
even 14 year old kid wasn't safe from him
as long he doesn't address the main issue like why radicals are acting out now and why were they so quite before 9/11?
and why are most of the muslim world stuck in the past and what can we do to help them to move forward, instead of outright taking advantage of them
Quote from: SGOS on November 20, 2015, 03:44:39 PM
We have all learned to live with the bomb, and I'm not planning on dying from worry. Perhaps concern would be a better word. I assume your response is to create the impression of a cavalier individual who doesn't care: "Oh Hell, give Iran the bomb. It will be OK." Or maybe it was an attempt at dark humor. This isn't the same game from 1945, and the players are changing. The Soviet Union wasn't a nation state driven by crazy imams with a belief in the glory of destruction in the name of a non existent god as the path to heavenly reward. Yes, the US and Russia may be crazy, but we are talking about a new level of armed crazy that increases the risk. If you think this is a good idea, we will just have to disagree.
Did I say I was in favor of proliferation? Hardly ... but the cat is out of the bag for anyone awake for the last 50 years. Dark humor. But if you think the Russians or the Americans are sane ... you haven't been paying attention. First world chauvinism. Broken arrow. Yikes!
CloneKai ... Bill Maher is another Rudyard Kipling. Someone from the Sub-continent would know that it is elephants all the way down ... or is it turtles ;-)) You may be, or recently were, Muslim, but before that your Central Asian part was pagan, and your Gandharan part was Buddhist ... and before that your Indus part was Hindu. You are all of those things ... without your specific past ... you wouldn't be here. People don't extend into space very much, but we extend back into time. If you want a metaphysical outline of my position, that is the same as summarizing what I have posted for the last 5 months.
Quote from: Baruch on November 20, 2015, 07:35:30 PM
CloneKai ... Bill Maher is another Rudyard Kipling. Someone from the Sub-continent would know that it is elephants all the way down ... or is it turtles ;-)) You may be, or recently were, Muslim, but before that your Central Asian part was pagan, and your Gandharan part was Buddhist ... and before that your Indus part was Hindu. You are all of those things ... without your specific past ... you wouldn't be here. People don't extend into space very much, but we extend back into time. If you want a metaphysical outline of my position, that is the same as summarizing what I have posted for the last 5 months.
Which, if you're like most people, is a summary of change rather than a clear position. Unless, of course, you've figured it out, think you have, or have just said to hell with it.
Quote from: Jack89 on November 20, 2015, 08:20:46 PM
Which, if you're like most people, is a summary of change rather than a clear position. Unless, of course, you've figured it out, think you have, or have just said to hell with it.
Just multifaceted plus devil's advocate ... not much change there.
-------
For CloneKai I will summarize in Muslim terms (cross cultural translation):
I follow the caravan of my fathers, but I am hospitable to my neighbors.
I am well aware of the excellence of Islam. I appreciate the beauty of Arabic and the profundity of the Quran. May your Al-Islam be crowned with Al-Iman, and your Al-Iman be crowned with Al-Ihsan. In that way I hope all Ummah are blessed.
I am in life now, and I am in death now ... I have no true past nor true future, only the illusion. Hard and easy, unpleasant and pleasant are the ways of men, but lack of Ad-din makes it harder and more unpleasant. Wherever and whenever there is Al-Ihsan ... there and then is Jannah.
-----
But I can put it into other cultural translations as well ;-)
Quote from: Baruch on November 20, 2015, 09:19:42 PM
Just multifaceted plus devil's advocate ... not much change there.
-------
For CloneKai I will summarize in Muslim terms (cross cultural translation):
I follow the caravan of my fathers, but I am hospitable to my neighbors.
I am well aware of the excellence of Islam. I appreciate the beauty of Arabic and the profundity of the Quran. May your Al-Islam be crowned with Al-Iman, and your Al-Iman be crowned with Al-Ihsan. In that way I hope all Ummah are blessed.
I am in life now, and I am in death now ... I have no true past nor true future, only the illusion. Hard and easy, unpleasant and pleasant are the ways of men, but lack of Ad-din makes it harder and more unpleasant. Wherever and whenever there is Al-Ihsan ... there and then is Jannah.
-----
But I can put it into other cultural translations as well ;-)
Weird... Both the bible, yes all of it" and the quran are shallow. Bitwise poetical, but still shallow. "Profound" is as misplaced as can be.
Quote from: facebook164 on November 21, 2015, 02:38:36 AM
Weird... Both the bible, yes all of it" and the quran are shallow. Bitwise poetical, but still shallow. "Profound" is as misplaced as can be.
Greek scriptures ... the Odyssey, the plays, the dialogs of Plato ... are part of the Greco-Roman heritage of the West. Shallow?
Quote from: Baruch on November 21, 2015, 02:45:09 AM
Greek scriptures ... the Odyssey, the plays, the dialogs of Plato ... are part of the Greco-Roman heritage of the West. Shallow?
I didnt mention theese.
Good entertainment. But knowledgewise shallow. I would except plato, which anyway should be read with caution.
Quote from: Baruch on November 20, 2015, 07:24:38 PM
Did I say I was in favor of proliferation?
That's an irrelevant distraction since I never claimed you said that. I said, " I assume your response is to create the impression of a cavalier individual who doesn't care." A different observation altogether.
Quote from: Baruch on November 20, 2015, 07:24:38 PM
But if you think the Russians or the Americans are sane ... you haven't been paying attention.
Another distraction, since I said just the opposite.
Quote from: CloneKai on November 20, 2015, 06:38:53 PM
Bill Maher isn't exactly fair with muslim either
other than in the last show in which he finally asked why do they hate us
he always went out of his way to blame muslims
even 14 year old kid wasn't safe from him
as long he doesn't address the main issue like why radicals are acting out now and why were they so quite before 9/11?
and why are most of the muslim world stuck in the past and what can we do to help them to move forward, instead of outright taking advantage of them
Maher's beef is primarily with the Lefties, which he himself identifies with, and their knee-jerk reaction to side with Muslims every time that Islam is criticized. His perception of Islam is no different than his perception of Christianity: both are beliefs in fantasy. So there should be no reason why the Lefties should treat Islam favorably. His other point is that Muslims have no grounds to hate the West. And if they do, it's based primarily on religious grounds. He doesn't accept the excuse that the West had at one point in time colonized the Muslim world. Africa was also colonized by the Western world, yet does not carry this kind of terrorism that Muslims do.
Please accept this as my perception of Bill Maher's thinking. He himself might disagree with my perception of him... :93:
SGOS ... just my attempt to grasp at what you and others are saying ... not trying to put words in your mouth ;-)
Josephpalazzo ... as for me, I don't need to do anything beyond what I am already doing ... not even if the terrorists blow up Brussels (which is on alert as of yesterday) ... to attack the EU and Nato. Would I jump, each time the Luftwaffe dropped a bomb on London, if I were in London in 1940? One simply has to choose life over death, and stop being a ninny (I don't mean you or anyone in particular). I have prayer beads I can clutch, but I don't even know where I put them.
Quote from: Baruch on November 20, 2015, 07:35:30 PM
CloneKai ... Bill Maher is another Rudyard Kipling. Someone from the Sub-continent would know that it is elephants all the way down ... or is it turtles ;-)) You may be, or recently were, Muslim, but before that your Central Asian part was pagan, and your Gandharan part was Buddhist ... and before that your Indus part was Hindu. You are all of those things ... without your specific past ... you wouldn't be here. People don't extend into space very much, but we extend back into time. If you want a metaphysical outline of my position, that is the same as summarizing what I have posted for the last 5 months.
Now i remember asking you, why the history would matter especially if we don't remember it?
would you have this extending back into time position, even if you didn't know your own family. they are reason why you are here but they are not, what you are.
i don't understand philosophy, not my thing i suppose
Quote from: Baruch on November 20, 2015, 09:19:42 PM
Just multifaceted plus devil's advocate ... not much change there.
-------
For CloneKai I will summarize in Muslim terms (cross cultural translation):
I follow the caravan of my fathers, but I am hospitable to my neighbors.
I am well aware of the excellence of Islam. I appreciate the beauty of Arabic and the profundity of the Quran. May your Al-Islam be crowned with Al-Iman, and your Al-Iman be crowned with Al-Ihsan. In that way I hope all Ummah are blessed.
I am in life now, and I am in death now ... I have no true past nor true future, only the illusion. Hard and easy, unpleasant and pleasant are the ways of men, but lack of Ad-din makes it harder and more unpleasant. Wherever and whenever there is Al-Ihsan ... there and then is Jannah.
-----
But I can put it into other cultural translations as well ;-)
i don't think you should :shocked:
Quote from: josephpalazzo on November 21, 2015, 09:06:52 AM
Maher's beef is primarily with the Lefties, which he himself identifies with, and their knee-jerk reaction to side with Muslims every time that Islam is criticized. His perception of Islam is no different than his perception of Christianity: both are beliefs in fantasy. So there should be no reason why the Lefties should treat Islam favorably. His other point is that Muslims have no grounds to hate the West. And if they do, it's based primarily on religious grounds. He doesn't accept the excuse that the West had at one point in time colonized the Muslim world. Africa was also colonized by the Western world, yet does not carry this kind of terrorism that Muslims do.
Please accept this as my perception of Bill Maher's thinking. He himself might disagree with my perception of him... :93:
maybe you are correct
Quote from: CloneKai on November 21, 2015, 11:02:20 AM
Now i remember asking you, why the history would matter especially if we don't remember it?
would you have this extending back into time position, even if you didn't know your own family. they are reason why you are here but they are not, what you are.
i don't understand philosophy, not my thing i suppose
A sociopath thinks that there are other people, but only the sociopath matters. A solipsist believes that they are the only person in existence. Both of these are common in the West, and are pathological. If you don't see something ... does it still exist? I can't see the past itself, only evidence for the past ... but does that mean it doesn't exist? Consciousness is only the part of the ice berg that is above water ... the important 90% is below the waterline.