When Gaad cast Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden, he cursed their offspring and all their descendants so that they too would sin, got that. But that doesn't quite explain how all of us who are said to have descended from this pair of sex dolls are actually born sinners! How can that be possible, when you have to have actually done something to be a sinner? How could I have done anything before I was born? Is it something I did while still in the womb? Have fetuses been observed masturbating in the womb via ultrasound, or blaspheming Gaad in some way?
One early made up theology was "traducianism". That while bodies produced bodies, it was souls that produced souls. So a kind of dualism, that was later repeated in more secular form by Descartes. So you get a sinful soul because your soul is produced at conception from two parent's whose souls were sinful to begin with. The Church Father, Tertullian, promoted this ... along with Trinitarianism and other questionable innovations. Later theology basically is the two Adam theory, that we are all extensions of the original Adam, not complete individuals. And by replacing the old Adam with the new Adam (Christ) then we are reborn as sinless beings. This was more gnostic .. but equally woo woo.
The way I've heard it from a preacher, we are born as animals. We need to be trained to overcome our nature. This is true. However, I think sublimating our true mammalian nature creates neuroses. I feel we should be more understanding of our antisocial thoughts and behaviors. It's a bad idea to condemn people for being who they genetically are. We wind up with self righteous authority figures who are often hypocritical.
Well, if the mother-to-be's hospital bed is positioned in such a way that the opposite sits above the hypotenuse, then her baby would be born in sin. Seems pretty clear-cut to me.
Quote from: gentle_dissident on November 12, 2015, 12:53:41 PM
The way I've heard it from a preacher, we are born as animals. We need to be trained to overcome our nature. This is true. However, I think sublimating our true mammalian nature creates neuroses. I feel we should be more understanding of our antisocial thoughts and behaviors. It's a bad idea to condemn people for being who they genetically are. We wind up with self righteous authority figures who are often hypocritical.
Knowledge is both a plus and a minus ... good news/bad news. Understanding is what helps us cope with knowledge ... so more understanding is always good.
Quote from: peacewithoutgod on November 12, 2015, 12:36:04 PM
How could I have done anything before I was born? Is it something I did while still in the womb? Have fetuses been observed masturbating, or blaspheming Gaad in some way?
Because your parents had to fuck to even make you, which is a sin. So the second your sperm self high-fived your egg self to become your zygote self, you had sinned via your dirty-minded progenitors. Yes, before you even had a central nervous system to register such a thing.
Quote from: Baruch on November 12, 2015, 12:48:25 PM
One early made up theology was "traducianism". That while bodies produced bodies, it was souls that produced souls. So a kind of dualism, that was later repeated in more secular form by Descartes. So you get a sinful soul because your soul is produced at conception from two parent's whose souls were sinful to begin with. The Church Father, Tertullian, promoted this ... along with Trinitarianism and other questionable innovations. Later theology basically is the two Adam theory, that we are all extensions of the original Adam, not complete individuals. And by replacing the old Adam with the new Adam (Christ) then we are reborn as sinless beings. This was more gnostic .. but equally woo woo.
So then, I should carry the guilt of a guilty "soul" from birth, but you cannot be guilty of what you don't remember or do not understand. Even the laws of mortal man proscribe (although not perfectly in practice where US States practice capital punishment) the putting to death of one who is not mentally competent to understand the nature of their crime, or could not have been so at the time. As for me, not mentally incompetent (if I don't say so myself), but then I sure don't have awareness of what I did before I was born, therefore I don't understand the nature of it. But then whoever said Gaad is a just god? Oh...wait!
When I was a Christian, I was taught to understand it in two different ways: it is a metaphysical separation of the soul from God, or alternately it is the absence of God. Taken in conjunction with the Biblical assertion that we are created in God's image, this takes on a kind of Platonic flair. God is the perfect form in which we participate, and sin as an action is any way in which our participation becomes more imperfect. Of course, that conception breaks down with Nietzsche's tracing of the concepts of good and evil to sociological conditions, but nobody tell my old pastor that :shhh:
Quote from: TomFoolery on November 12, 2015, 01:11:51 PM
Because your parents had to fuck to even make you, which is a sin. So the second your sperm self high-fived your egg self to become your zygote self, you had sinned via your dirty-minded progenitors. Yes, before you even had a central nervous system to register such a thing.
But that wasn't fucking, it was procreation - or at least that's what the mailman told my mother (Not actually true of me, and then some mailmen are faithful to their wives).
What my old churches thought was that babies are born with a sin nature, but they are not guilty of committing sins yet. That means that they have a natural tendency to sin, and it doesn't have to be taught to them, unlike Adam and Eve. So basically, the child doesn't have to be taught how to lie, hit their siblings, or do anything bad. That's just in their nature. But most would not believe that babies would go to Hell when if they die, because they're incapable to making sinful decisions.
Quote from: peacewithoutgod on November 12, 2015, 01:41:33 PM
So then, I should carry the guilt of a guilty "soul" from birth, but you cannot be guilty of what you don't remember or do not understand. Even the laws of mortal man proscribe (although not perfectly in practice where US States practice capital punishment) the putting to death of one who is not mentally competent to understand the nature of their crime, or could not have been so at the time. As for me, not mentally incompetent (if I don't say so myself), but then I sure don't have awareness of what I did before I was born, therefore I don't understand the nature of it. But then whoever said Gaad is a just god? Oh...wait!
Sin isn't about ethics or morality ... it has to do with kosher. Your life starts in a womb, with blood .. and anything that is in contact with blood, is non-kosher. Though there are other things like mold and yeast that are non-kosher too. This is why in kosher cooking the blood is drained or otherwise minimized. And of course birth is very non-kosher, is bloody ... if you have ever seen one. It got to see my daughter getting born ... mien gott! So no, sin has nothing to do with justice or injustice. New Speak folks are always combining words to eliminate synonyms or even combining opposites to produce words that in their very nature are non-sense. Also sin can be collective, but individuals don't get this.
This "born in blood" is part of the reason why infant baptism started. Not because the babies were caught smoking, drinking and looking at porn ;-))
Quote from: peacewithoutgod on November 12, 2015, 12:36:04 PM
When Gaad cast Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden, he cursed their offspring and all their descendants so that they too would sin, got that. But that doesn't quite explain how all of us who are said to have descended from this pair of sex dolls are actually born sinners! How can that be possible, when you have to have actually done something to be a sinner? How could I have done anything before I was born? Is it something I did while still in the womb? Have fetuses been observed masturbating in the womb via ultrasound, or blaspheming Gaad in some way?
What a silly question The Bible tells us we are sinful scum with our earthly cravings and the sinful bodily functions and the biological imperative Yahweh bestowed on us in the first place. And since the bible tells us so and the gospel says the bible is inerrant, then the connection between the apple eating incident and our carnal abominations and wicked urges becomes obvious.
Glory! All praise is due to the Holy Cheese on Toast.
Duplicate
Quote from: 1liesalot on November 12, 2015, 07:03:28 PM
What a silly question The Bible tells us we are sinful scum with our earthly cravings and the sinful bodily functions and the biological imperative Yahweh bestowed on us in the first place. And since the bible tells us so and the gospel says the bible is inerrant, then the connection between the apple eating incident and our carnal abominations and wicked urges becomes obvious.
Glory! All praise is due to the Holy Cheese on Toast.
Actually that is what Calvinists tell us (such as Baptists) ... and they are heretics.
Quote from: Baruch on November 12, 2015, 07:00:40 PM
Sin isn't about ethics or morality ... it has to do with kosher. Your life starts in a womb, with blood .. and anything that is in contact with blood, is non-kosher. Though there are other things like mold and yeast that are non-kosher too. This is why in kosher cooking the blood is drained or otherwise minimized. And of course birth is very non-kosher, is bloody ... if you have ever seen one. It got to see my daughter getting born ... mien gott! So no, sin has nothing to do with justice or injustice. New Speak folks are always combining words to eliminate synonyms or even combining opposites to produce words that in their very nature are non-sense. Also sin can be collective, but individuals don't get this.
This "born in blood" is part of the reason why infant baptism started. Not because the babies were caught smoking, drinking and looking at porn ;-))
If Kosher is about contact with blood, then how can modern Judaism permit the consumption of any meat? It cannot exist without having grown through contact, direct or not, with the blood which fed it, carrying the nutrients which it allowed it to grow!
sex is sin. DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Quote from: peacewithoutgod on November 12, 2015, 08:13:49 PM
If Kosher is about contact with blood, then how can modern Judaism permit the consumption of any meat? It cannot exist without having grown through contact, direct or not, with the blood which fed it, carrying the nutrients which it allowed it to grow!
Black meets white. One ... red blood is minimized ... or you aren't kosher. Most Jews are not kosher. Also the blood of fish don't count ... only land animal blood is treif (polluting). I don't think ancient people realized that there were red blood cells in fish. Also the eating of land animals, other than sheep and goats ... is either treif (pork) or hard to arrange in a kosher way (oxen). Of course we are talking pre-science, not science. But relative to Gentiles, the kosher Jews could be relatively hygienic.
Quote from: PickelledEggs on November 12, 2015, 09:33:27 PM
sex is sin. DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Damn, you're no fun!
I wish I was born into one of those religious cultures where sex was a holy act, performed at temple gatherings. Moloch was one of those gods, too bad it came with the bummer of child sacrifice. I mean, what a waste of good baby meat it was to toss them into its burning belly!
Meh . Adam and Eve never existed. Arguing about the details that silly story is boring. We should argue about the plot of Star Wars the force awakens. Will Han Solo really die in the movie ?
Quote from: leo on November 13, 2015, 06:53:55 AM
Meh . Adam and Eve never existed. Arguing about the details that silly story is boring. We should argue about the plot of Star Wars the force awakens. Will Han Solo really die in the movie ?
Actually what happens to contemporary fictional character is important ... they represent different aspects of the modern psyche. So Han Solo represents the older Baby Boomers, but Obie One represents the WW II generation. With Biblical characters ... we already know how the story ends.
WTF?? When you are born, you are just born. But some ancient, apparently during a manic episode, had the brilliant idea to add the notion that we are "born in sin." He just couldn't leave a natural thing alone, recognize it for what it was, and accept it. But combining some gibberish to something real, embellishes the ordinary in such a way that humans perceive it as exceptionally insightful, lose all perspective, and adopt it into their culture.
Sin big or go home.
(http://img0.joyreactor.com/pics/post/funny-pictures-auto-jesus-sin-356229.jpeg)
Quote from: GSOgymrat on November 13, 2015, 08:51:53 AM
Sin big or go home.
(http://img0.joyreactor.com/pics/post/funny-pictures-auto-jesus-sin-356229.jpeg)
I'll give Jesus credit for being well groomed and taking care of his looks. He kept his hair washed, brushed and carefully trimmed, and a fine head of silky hair it was. For such primitive times, he paid close attention to the trim of his beard, too. While other men walked about with beards that were nothing more than wild hairy growths all over their face and chin, Jesus actually started the trend of beard trimming resulting in a clear crisp hairline between cheek and chin that defines the preferred style that lasted for centuries and culminated in the hippy generation of the 1960s and 70s. Although, there was a short temporary flirtation with the slovenly style of President Rutherford B. Hayes and Osama bin Laden, who both tried but failed to reestablish the "I don't care what I look like," style of beard.
Today, it's clear the "Jesus beard" still sets the standard for discriminating males, except that little cleft he leaves in the middle of his beard is a bit annoying, but maybe that's just a cultural thing.
Quote from: GSOgymrat on November 13, 2015, 08:51:53 AM
Sin big or go home.
(http://img0.joyreactor.com/pics/post/funny-pictures-auto-jesus-sin-356229.jpeg)
Jesus never sinned, so why did he always pose with the bedroom eyes?
Jesus apparently wasn't Jewish either.
Quote from: SGOS on November 13, 2015, 09:18:59 AM
I'll give Jesus credit for being well groomed and taking care of his looks. He kept his hair washed, brushed and carefully trimmed, and a fine head of silky hair it was. For such primitive times, he paid close attention to the trim of his beard, too. While other men walked about with beards that were nothing more than wild hairy growths all over their face and chin, Jesus actually started the trend of beard trimming resulting in a clear crisp hairline between cheek and chin that defines the preferred style that lasted for centuries and culminated in the hippy generation of the 1960s and 70s. Although, there was a short temporary flirtation with the slovenly style of President Rutherford B. Hayes and Osama bin Laden, who both tried but failed to reestablish the "I don't care what I look like," style of beard.
Today, it's clear the "Jesus beard" still sets the standard for discriminating males, except that little cleft he leaves in the middle of his beard is a bit annoying, but maybe that's just a cultural thing.
Jesus knew a constant source of flattering lighting is key to looking one's best, as is being fit and trim. Two thousand years and we still can't get enough Jesus!
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-0tlw-xyOHKI/UgZnf0C7FKI/AAAAAAAAAeE/VltUF_Q17g4/s1600/sexy+jesus2.jpg)
"You can't enter heaven unless Jesus enters you!"
Quote from: GSOgymrat on November 13, 2015, 11:05:32 AM
Jesus knew a constant source of flattering lighting is key to looking ones best, as is being fit and trim.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-0tlw-xyOHKI/UgZnf0C7FKI/AAAAAAAAAeE/VltUF_Q17g4/s1600/sexy+jesus2.jpg)
(http://img0.joyreactor.com/pics/post/funny-pictures-auto-jesus-sin-356229.jpeg)
Well, no doubt he went out of his way to look good. Those gentle waves of hair were probably added for his portrait sitting that has become the Jesus we all know and love.
Quote from: SGOS on November 13, 2015, 08:25:14 AM
WTF?? When you are born, you are just born. But some ancient, apparently during a manic episode, had the brilliant idea to add the notion that we are "born in sin." He just couldn't leave a natural thing alone, recognize it for what it was, and accept it. But combining some gibberish to something real, embellishes the ordinary in such a way that humans perceive it as exceptionally insightful, lose all perspective, and adopt it into their culture.
When you are born ... all you know is gibberish, and it goes downhill from there ;-)
Is there such a thing as the devil?
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Quote from: Baruch on November 13, 2015, 12:37:55 PM
When you are born ... all you know is gibberish, and it goes downhill from there ;-)
We are born in gibberish. OK I'll buy that.
Quote from: g2perk on November 13, 2015, 01:29:39 PM
Is there such a thing as the devil?
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A thing and a person, are not comparable. In fact many things are not mutually comparable. A hammer vs hate for example. Is the Devil a person? But your capitalization does work ... Is the devil a thing? As an idea, the devil is very much a thing. For a monotheist, the Devil as a person presents difficulties. But the devil as a thing, is more like hate than like a hammer.
Quote from: Baruch on November 13, 2015, 10:30:22 PM
A thing and a person, are not comparable. In fact many things are not mutually comparable. A hammer vs hate for example. Is the Devil a person? But your capitalization does work ... Is the devil a thing? As an idea, the devil is very much a thing. For a monotheist, the Devil as a person presents difficulties. But the devil as a thing, is more like hate than like a hammer.
A person is a thing. A very complex thing.
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff277/josephpalazzo/freethunk.gif) (http://s243.photobucket.com/user/josephpalazzo/media/freethunk.gif.html)
Quote from: facebook164 on November 14, 2015, 06:23:44 PM
A person is a thing. A very complex thing.
And Jesus is The Word ;-) ... which is a kind of thing. There are several kinds of things ... this ancient theology in modern terms would be that Jesus is The Meme of all other memes. Pythagoreans would on the other hand say that everything, including people, are numbers ... which is another kind of thing ... or perhaps a different kind of word. For Pythagoras, the number of all numbers is "one" not Jesus. Physicists would say that everything, including people, are quantum fields (strings being just one speculative kind of quantum field). Modern physicists have moved beyond materialism or Thales to Pythagoreanism. All these alternatives are reductionist ... which comes about because of the success/failure of applying abstraction to human experience ... aka analysis (in the general sense, not Calculus ... but for awhile they were synonymous). As a holistic thinker ... I see reductionism of limited tool for limited situations. But metaphysically, for me ... thingness isn't a greater abstraction than person-ness ... for you it is the exact opposite.
The Original Sin idea is to keep people from thinking that if they lead a good and blameless life they don't need the fat friars to "save" them. If they didn't have this hook on people the crowd would have figured out that there's no need for the freeloaders.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on November 14, 2015, 08:22:47 PM
The Original Sin idea is to keep people from thinking that if they lead a good and blameless life they don't need the fat friars to "save" them. If they didn't have this hook on people the crowd would have figured out that there's no need for the freeloaders.
I don't believe that is how sin works. The idea of sin in the Christian world is to be used as a principal of life. It should not be used to control people but unfortunately many pastors do use it for that purpose. That's wrong.
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Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on November 14, 2015, 08:22:47 PM
The Original Sin idea is to keep people from thinking that if they lead a good and blameless life they don't need the fat friars to "save" them. If they didn't have this hook on people the crowd would have figured out that there's no need for the freeloaders.
Why were the friars so fat? Because 60% of their calories were from wine that they fermented themselves. Drinking unportable water shortened your life span!
Quote from: Baruch on November 14, 2015, 07:35:54 PM
And Jesus is The Word ;-) ... which is a kind of thing. There are several kinds of things ... this ancient theology in modern terms would be that Jesus is The Meme of all other memes. Pythagoreans would on the other hand say that everything, including people, are numbers ... which is another kind of thing ... or perhaps a different kind of word. For Pythagoras, the number of all numbers is "one" not Jesus. Physicists would say that everything, including people, are quantum fields (strings being just one speculative kind of quantum field). Modern physicists have moved beyond materialism or Thales to Pythagoreanism. All these alternatives are reductionist ... which comes about because of the success/failure of applying abstraction to human experience ... aka analysis (in the general sense, not Calculus ... but for awhile they were synonymous). As a holistic thinker ... I see reductionism of limited tool for limited situations. But metaphysically, for me ... thingness isn't a greater abstraction than person-ness ... for you it is the exact opposite.
Really? You mange to write an humpback expose of the history of ideas but you doesnt care to avtually argue anything about the actual matter: What in a person abstraction is not covered by the thing abstraction.
Quote from: g2perk on November 14, 2015, 09:42:10 PM
I don't believe that is how sin works. The idea of sin in the Christian world is to be used as a principal of life. It should not be used to control people but unfortunately many pastors do use it for that purpose. That's wrong.
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"Sin" doesn't work at all. It's people manipulating people that works. (I'm speaking of "sin" in the sense that blasphemy, etc., is a sin against a god or gods.)
Quote from: Baruch on November 14, 2015, 10:32:44 PM
Why were the friars so fat? Because 60% of their calories were from wine that they fermented themselves. Drinking unportable water shortened your life span!
And the only way to have something safe to drink was to turn it into alcohol. Convenient, that. However, the image of a fat friar telling people they have to suffer on Earth if they want to get to Heaven, including malnutrition, is simply bizarre.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on November 15, 2015, 07:26:39 AM
And the only way to have something safe to drink was to turn it into alcohol. Convenient, that. However, the image of a fat friar telling people they have to suffer on Earth if they want to get to Heaven, including malnutrition, is simply bizarre.
"With their own hands they are to present the food offering to the Lord; they are to bring the fat, together with the breast, and wave the breast before the Lord as a wave offering. The priest shall burn the fat on the altar, but the breast belongs to Aaron and his sons. You are to give the right thigh of your fellowship offerings to the priest as a contribution."
Quote from: facebook164 on November 15, 2015, 02:28:40 AM
Really? You mange to write an humpback expose of the history of ideas but you doesnt care to avtually argue anything about the actual matter: What in a person abstraction is not covered by the thing abstraction.
You can look at the world standing on your feet, or standing on your head. Ideas are things. People have ideas ... ideas don't have people.
Quote from: Baruch on November 15, 2015, 08:27:09 AM
You can look at the world standing on your feet, or standing on your head. Ideas are things. People have ideas ... ideas don't have people.
So your argument is "things cannot have things"?
Ideas are behavior. Things have behavior.
Quote from: gentle_dissident on November 15, 2015, 08:04:12 AM
"With their own hands they are to present the food offering to the Lord; they are to bring the fat, together with the breast, and wave the breast before the Lord as a wave offering. The priest shall burn the fat on the altar, but the breast belongs to Aaron and his sons. You are to give the right thigh of your fellowship offerings to the priest as a contribution."
And that relates to fat friars in what fashion?
Quote from: facebook164 on November 15, 2015, 09:23:48 AM
So your argument is "things cannot have things"?
Ideas are behavior. Things have behavior.
Communication is challenging ;-) Yes, ideas are lead to behavior, they aren't behavior itself. The control signal (voltage) controls the generator that provides the electric power. The control signal is the idea, the electric power is the thing. Things that are dynamic ... and many things are .... those things have behavior. But a rock isn't dynamic, it just sits there ... it doesn't have behavior. A river has behavior, it flows. But it would be an overgeneralization to say that a human is a river ... a human is dynamic, but a human is alive, but a river isn't alive even though it is dynamic ... and of course a static rock has neither dynamics or life. I would be more critical in the use of the word "behavior" ... limiting it to living things, but we don't need to go there.
And yes, things can't have things. A rock doesn't give birth to more rocks ... and a riven can merge into a larger river and eventually merge into the sea ... but only a woman can give birth.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on November 15, 2015, 09:54:04 AM
And that relates to fat friars in what fashion?
The idea being that scripture mandates the sustainment of the clergy by the peasants. The clergy in theory provide a service ... the peasants provide commodities.
Quote from: Baruch on November 15, 2015, 10:38:13 AM
The idea being that scripture mandates the sustainment of the clergy by the peasants. The clergy in theory provide a service ... the peasants provide commodities.
Lovely, "job security" written into the Bible by the guys who needed job security from the words in the Bible. Epic.
However, being fed and being fat are not necessarily the same thing. What I've read indicates that "far friar" was not a compliment.
Quote from: Baruch on November 15, 2015, 10:37:22 AM
Communication is challenging ;-) Yes, ideas are lead to behavior, they aren't behavior itself. The control signal (voltage) controls the generator that provides the electric power. The control signal is the idea, the electric power is the thing.
No. Ideas are themselves the behavior of neural systems,
Quote from: Baruch on November 15, 2015, 10:37:22 AM
Things that are dynamic ... and many things are .... those things have behavior. But a rock isn't dynamic, it just sits there ... it doesn't have behavior.
Yes it has. It shatters under pressure. Etc. An intact rock is a very simple system but that system has still has behavior.
Quote from: Baruch on November 15, 2015, 10:37:22 AMA river has behavior, it flows. But it would be an overgeneralization to say that a human is a river
No, but plain wrong.
Quote from: Baruch on November 15, 2015, 10:37:22 AM... a human is dynamic, but a human is alive, but a river isn't alive even though it is dynamic ... and of course a static rock has neither dynamics or life. I would be more critical in the use of the word "behavior" ... limiting it to living things, but we don't need to go there.
Are you animist? Limiting bevior to only apply to "living things" whatever that is, is ridiculus. Behaviour is the change of a system over time, its response to inout etc.
Quote from: Baruch on November 15, 2015, 10:37:22 AMAnd yes, things can't have things.
So an atom cannot have electrons?
We are not born in sin, that was what the whole hubbub about jebus dying, to remove the idea of original sin and to open the floodgates to heaven….now we only need to accept him…praise be….and VOILA! Whoosh, when you die, afteryoucontributeyourfairshareofmoneyandsplayyourselfabouttheearthandinundatetheheavenswiththousandsofprayersandmaybeevenkillabastardatheistorheathenandaskforgivenessforthatandthenofcoursegetitcanyoutithejustalittlemoreandohbythewayanicedonationafteryoudiewouldensureafrontrowseatandnowyouareinheavencongradulations…….you get to see jebus and god. TA-DA!
Quote from: g2perk on November 14, 2015, 09:42:10 PM
I don't believe that is how sin works. The idea of sin in the Christian world is to be used as a principal of life. It should not be used to control people but unfortunately many pastors do use it for that purpose. That's wrong.
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There is no "use" and "principle" when applied to society without "control" of the same. More circular back-chat from you, none surprising.
Quote from: facebook164 on November 15, 2015, 11:30:25 AM
No. Ideas are themselves the behavior of neural systems,
...
Yes it has. It shatters under pressure. Etc. An intact rock is a very simple system but that system has still has behavior.
...
No, but plain wrong.
...
Are you animist? Limiting bevior to only apply to "living things" whatever that is, is ridiculus. Behaviour is the change of a system over time, its response to inout etc.
...
So an atom cannot have electrons?
...
The idea that you have a neural system ... is an idea, not a neural system ... whatever may be in your body. People usually mistake what they think, for reality. Your body is real, but any ideas you have ... are questionable. But I agree, without a neural system, you can't have ideas (in a conventional sense anyway) ... though there are living beings that have no neural system. Ideas are a part of the behavior (a better word than dynamic) of your body, which we ascribe to the neural system in those beings that have one ... because we don't view the body as a whole, but as made up of parts, like an automobile. The idea, that you can model a whole, by referring to its parts ... only works in some circumstances, it doesn't work all the time. With living things for example, it doesn't work (though the modern myth of epi-phenomenalism tries to escape this error) ... a living body reduced to its isolated parts is a cadaver. But for a rock it does, it can be modeled by its parts (minerals). And a car is not a naturally occurring thing, it only exists because living beings created it ... it didn't spontaneously self-assemble either physically or economically. The behavior/dynamics of a rock is minimal ... because it is a solid. You and I are not solids, we are mostly bags of ionized mineralized organic soup. But if you artificially assemble such a bag, you probably won't be having conversations with it.
As far as rocks go, they roll or shatter or weather under outside forces. If we include outside forces, the only thing real is the whole universe. But then that would support my point regarding holism. A rock has no motivation, unlike say a bacterium, which acts on its own, in the context of an environment, but independently of it. A bacterium is alive, but a rock is not ... and a bacterium has no neural system. Whatever ideas it may have, it would be alien to us ... but well known to say your own white blood cells. As as a multicellular organism ... we aren't strictly individual, but a symbiotic community of a trillion individuals. Our ideas as a person, are the result of the behavior of that whole community ... though neural tissue has specialist roles to play.
So a river is alive? ... and I don't mean as an ecology, but as its own thing? There are things in the river that are alive, that exist in a complex interdependence we call an ecology. A river is dynamic ... because of gravity and capillary activity of the portion of the river that flows more slowly thru the water table ... it doesn't just sit there. But it has no will. It didn't choose to go downhill because it was too tired to go uphill. So no, I am not an animist or vitalist. Some things are alive, and other things are not ... but the living things I call persons ... even a bacterium ... otherwise I am muddying my synonyms. By making alive and not-alive the same, or by making a person to be a thing, or by mixing behavior with dynamics ... is poor language skill.
An ionized nucleus does not have all its electrons, or perhaps even any electrons if it is totally ionized. But I think examples at the atomic level ... doesn't help our discussion. At the atomic level there is no life and no ideas ... and if reductionism was correct, there would be no life and no ideas at our macro level.
Quote from: Baruch on November 15, 2015, 02:10:22 PM
But I agree, without a neural system, you can't have ideas (in a conventional sense anyway) ... though there are living beings that have no neural system.
Living beings? By that do you mean organisms which think? Plants don't have centralized neural networks, but they do respond to stimuli, and they communicate chemically with each other to some degree, and I would still say it's ridiculous to call them "beings" by those facts alone. Then again, the word "being" is itself a ridiculously religious construct.
Quote from: Baruch on November 15, 2015, 02:10:22 PM
As far as rocks go, they roll or shatter or weather under outside forces. If we include outside forces, the only thing real is the whole universe. But then that would support my point regarding holism. A rock has no motivation, unlike say a bacterium, which acts on its own, in the context of an environment, but independently of it. A bacterium is alive, but a rock is not ... and a bacterium has no neural system. Whatever ideas it may have, it would be alien to us ... but well known to say your own white blood cells. As as a multicellular organism ... we aren't strictly individual, but a symbiotic community of a trillion individuals. Our ideas as a person, are the result of the behavior of that whole community ... though neural tissue has specialist roles to play.
You think bacterium have "motivation" and "ideas"? Please! They have chemical propulsion, and it drives them to duplicate themselves. They don't need ideas or motivating thoughts to keep them going, LOL!
Quote from: Baruch on November 15, 2015, 02:10:22 PM
So a river is alive? ... and I don't mean as an ecology, but as its own thing? There are things in the river that are alive, that exist in a complex interdependence we call an ecology. A river is dynamic ... because of gravity and capillary activity of the portion of the river that flows more slowly thru the water table ... it doesn't just sit there. But it has no will. It didn't choose to go downhill because it was too tired to go uphill. So no, I am not an animist or vitalist. Some things are alive, and other things are not ... but the living things I call persons ... even a bacterium ... otherwise I am muddying my synonyms. By making alive and not-alive the same, or by making a person to be a thing, or by mixing behavior with dynamics ... is poor language skill.
If having a conscious will to live was necessary for a system to have life, then life certainly never would have arisen at all. Does your computer not have life? What happens to it when it suddenly stops working?
Rivers have life as long as their watery blood is in continuous supply, causing it to act on its environment while being continuously rejuvenated from outside sources. There is a strong theory that life could have arisen from silicaceous molecules as they formed clay deposits in river beds, which would have the effect of replicating early RNA bases, which may have led to the forming of early nucleotides.
Quote from: Baruch on November 15, 2015, 02:10:22 PM
An ionized nucleus does not have all its electrons, or perhaps even any electrons if it is totally ionized. But I think examples at the atomic level ... doesn't help our discussion. At the atomic level there is no life and no ideas ... and if reductionism was correct, there would be no life and no ideas at our macro level.
Ideas are unimportant, or are not required for the existence nor causation of any life form. Simple, unthinking chains of molecules which had the chemical power to self-replicate were alive just for that, and they led to more complex life forms.
Quote from: peacewithoutgod on November 15, 2015, 12:35:03 PM
There is no "use" and "principle" when applied to society without "control" of the same. More circular back-chat from you, none surprising.
What do you mean no use. With out knowing right from wrong how would any one know what they should or should not do. Sin ( adultery, murder, etc.)tells society if you do these types of acts you will face the consequences of Your actions.
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Quote from: Baruch on November 15, 2015, 02:10:22 PM
The idea that you have a neural system ... is an idea, not a neural system ... whatever may be in your body. People usually mistake what they think, for reality. Your body is real, but any ideas you have ... are questionable.
But I agree, without a neural system, you can't have ideas (in a conventional sense anyway) ... though there are living beings that have no neural system. Ideas are a part of the behavior (a better word than dynamic) of your body, which we ascribe to the neural system in those beings that have one ... because we don't view the body as a whole, but as made up of parts, like an automobile. The idea, that you can model a whole, by referring to its parts ... only works in some circumstances, it doesn't work all the time. With living things for example, it doesn't work (though the modern myth of epi-phenomenalism tries to escape this error) ... a living body reduced to its isolated parts is a cadaver. But for a rock it does, it can be modeled by its parts (minerals). And a car is not a naturally occurring thing, it only exists because living beings created it ... it didn't spontaneously self-assemble either physically or economically. The behavior/dynamics of a rock is minimal ... because it is a solid. You and I are not solids, we are mostly bags of ionized mineralized organic soup. But if you artificially assemble such a bag, you probably won't be having conversations with it.
As far as rocks go, they roll or shatter or weather under outside forces. If we include outside forces, the only thing real is the whole universe. But then that would support my point regarding holism. A rock has no motivation, unlike say a bacterium, which acts on its own, in the context of an environment, but independently of it. A bacterium is alive, but a rock is not ... and a bacterium has no neural system. Whatever ideas it may have, it would be alien to us ... but well known to say your own white blood cells. As as a multicellular organism ... we aren't strictly individual, but a symbiotic community of a trillion individuals. Our ideas as a person, are the result of the behavior of that whole community ... though neural tissue has specialist roles to play.
So a river is alive? ... and I don't mean as an ecology, but as its own thing? There are things in the river that are alive, that exist in a complex interdependence we call an ecology. A river is dynamic ... because of gravity and capillary activity of the portion of the river that flows more slowly thru the water table ... it doesn't just sit there. But it has no will. It didn't choose to go downhill because it was too tired to go uphill. So no, I am not an animist or vitalist. Some things are alive, and other things are not ... but the living things I call persons ... even a bacterium ... otherwise I am muddying my synonyms. By making alive and not-alive the same, or by making a person to be a thing, or by mixing behavior with dynamics ... is poor language skill.
An ionized nucleus does not have all its electrons, or perhaps even any electrons if it is totally ionized. But I think examples at the atomic level ... doesn't help our discussion. At the atomic level there is no life and no ideas ... and if reductionism was correct, there would be no life and no ideas at our macro level.
Thoughts are real, ideas are real. Maybe not in the sense you would think but never the less they maps to behavior of real matter.
When you think, the brain are doing the gymnastics and your neurons the ticking.
And about rocks snd living: there is nothing special about living things than that they are extremely complex.
Quote from: Baruch on November 15, 2015, 08:27:09 AM
You can look at the world standing on your feet, or standing on your head. Ideas are things. People have ideas ... ideas don't have people.
Then in that case everything which you believe is what you made up by yourself. No? Your ideas
do have you then!
Quote from: g2perk on November 15, 2015, 04:43:25 PM
What do you mean no use. With out knowing right from wrong how would any one know what they should or should not do. Sin ( adultery, murder, etc.)tells society if you do these types of acts you will face the consequences of Your actions.
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Your current fallacy is that people need to be told what right and wrong is, and that's utter bullshit. Children learn it all from experience, and being told does nothing to help them learn faster. What they learn isn't what pleases your god, but what best ensures their chances for survival, happiness, and prosperity with other humans. By the time they are old enough to read your ten commandments, they already know enough not to hit their little siblings, because they don't want to really hurt them, and they also understand that their parents won't tolerate disrespect. As for other commandments, it's you Xtains who want to hide all ideas of sex from them, but there you go making them memorize commandments which they are much too young to understand concerning adultery! Oh, and don't go worshiping other gods because your god is a jealous daddy, therefore kids learn that mean, jealous fuckers are good.
Yes people do need to be told other wise how would they know. You are talking about children learning from experience. Okay Will you let your child touch a hot stove to learn or will you teach them. You are always talking about My GOD. What about common sense. Where is that. This is the problem with some adults today they expect society to teach there children what the world fails at themselves. What needs to happen is parents teach your own children at home so they know how to act in public. And I don't hide sex from them I teach them to wait for there spouses because it the right thing to do. I am not sure where you learned what was wrong or right but I hope you had guidance along they way. By the way the 10 commandments are not meant for any one person to fulfill. Its purpose is Guidance. This can be proved and has been proven by parents across this world so if you still don't agree that simply because you hate being wrong.
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Quote from: peacewithoutgod on November 15, 2015, 05:09:44 PM
Then in that case everything which you believe is what you made up by yourself. No? Your ideas do have you then!
Yes, ideas are all made up, we aren't intuiting Platonic forms. But some things made up, have more verisimilitude than others. An idea of an regular elephant is more realistic (not real) than an idea of a pink elephant. I don't just believe my right hand is connected to me ... I have something more substantial to back it up. What is delusion, is believing that my ideas or your ideas are reality. My right hand is real, my ideas of my right hand ... are ideas, that may or may not be true.
Quote from: facebook164 on November 15, 2015, 04:58:05 PM
Thoughts are real, ideas are real. Maybe not in the sense you would think but never the less they maps to behavior of real matter.
When you think, the brain are doing the gymnastics and your neurons the ticking.
And about rocks snd living: there is nothing special about living things than that they are extremely complex.
Thanks Monsieur Descartes. I think, therefore I am. Really? I slap you across the face, therefore both of us are real. Get Empiricism not just milk.
A pile of rocks is extremely complex, more so than a single rock. Yet it is not alive.
Quote from: g2perk on November 15, 2015, 06:05:45 PM
Yes people do need to be told other wise how would they know. You are talking about children learning from experience. Okay Will you let your child touch a hot stove to learn or will you teach them. You are always talking about My GOD. What about common sense. Where is that. This is the problem with some adults today they expect society to teach there children what the world fails at themselves. What needs to happen is parents teach your own children at home so they know how to act in public. And I don't hide sex from them I teach them to wait for there spouses because it the right thing to do. I am not sure where you learned what was wrong or right but I hope you had guidance along they way. By the way the 10 commandments are not meant for any one person to fulfill. Its purpose is Guidance. This can be proved and has been proven by parents across this world so if you still don't agree that simply because you hate being wrong.
Which commandment says "thou shalt not touch a hot stove"? This falls directly under "obey your parents" (when you are a child), which smart children will do because they have learned from experience that their parents are wise, and they have their best interests in mind. Your 10 commandments remain vile at worst, or redundant at best.
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[/quote]
Quote from: Baruch on November 15, 2015, 06:12:04 PM
Yes, ideas are all made up, we aren't intuiting Platonic forms. But some things made up, have more verisimilitude than others. An idea of an regular elephant is more realistic (not real) than an idea of a pink elephant. I don't just believe my right hand is connected to me ... I have something more substantial to back it up. What is delusion, is believing that my ideas or your ideas are reality. My right hand is real, my ideas of my right hand ... are ideas, that may or may not be true.
The question wasn't whether ideas are made up, it's whether
you made up your own ideas. You said that people have ideas, not the other way around, which implies that you make up all of your own ideas without them ever taking hold of your mind as vectors from other minds which hosted them. Is that true or false, Baruch?
That's fine it can be what ever you think best but the fact still remains if you do aybeone of Ten Commandments you will face consequences point blank. Nothing may not happen to you today or tomorrow but keep doing it and see what happens. And that my friend is a promise. Maybe you know this as You reap what you sow.
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Quote from: peacewithoutgod on November 15, 2015, 06:26:30 PM
The question wasn't whether ideas are made up, it's whether you made up your own ideas. You said that people have ideas, not the other way around, which implies that you make up all of your own ideas without them ever taking hold of your mind as vectors from other minds which hosted them. Is that true or false, Baruch?
You are working this too hard. Of course my ideas are part of the interacting sea of ideas ... both in my head, and going into and out of my head from other people and the general environment. Your point? I am not claiming to be different ... just freethinking.
Quote from: g2perk on November 15, 2015, 06:30:30 PM
That's fine it can be what ever you think best but the fact still remains if you do aybeone of Ten Commandments you will face consequences point blank. Nothing may not happen to you today or tomorrow but keep doing it and see what happens. And that my friend is a promise. Maybe you know this as You reap what you sow.
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Stooping to idle threats, it's the swan song of the theist when he can no longer argue - why am I not surprised to see you making just like all the other nimwits who think the ready-made ideas which they happened on make them more wise than others?
Your god could not have created you because he hates everything that is natural in you, most of all it's the ability to think for yourself and learn from it. If he doesn't like that then he would have created you differently, and if this is all some weird and cruel test, then FUCK YOUR GOD either way! The existence of a god who hides in the shadows and buggers your mind with tests to so that he can select for maximum imbecility is so unlikely that it really isn't worth considering. People like you keep these ideas going because you want to believe you are smarter than others, when in fact you are good only at lying and con-jobbing people into supporting your lazy ass. You fuck with children's minds and you terrorize them into submission, so that they will not dare doubt your ideas later in life, and that makes you the ultimate terrorist! Fuck you, you con artist and terrorizer of children, and fuck your imaginary asshole of a god!
No respond needs.........🙊
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Quote from: Baruch on November 15, 2015, 06:38:03 PM
You are working this too hard. Of course my ideas are part of the interacting sea of ideas ... both in my head, and going into and out of my head from other people and the general environment. Your point? I am not claiming to be different ... just freethinking.
You made the statement, now I want
you to see if you can make any good sense of it.
I wasn't saying you were claiming to be different, but then what the hell is "freethinking" anyway? I'm glad that at least you think for yourself, however (and this is the point I was trying to make) when you have ideas which are theistic, they cannot be your own ideas. This is because there is no possible way that theistic ideas can have any originality - they suffer from the same conundrum of Keith Richards' admittedly not original licks (which he and most guitarists since him have been stealing from black artists and blues icons) times 100,000. The same old ideas have been rehashed so many times that it's impossible to add any more which would be truly different. Therefore, you can think for yourself and decide for yourself what you believe about quantum physics, and there is a real possibility that you would come up with a completely new and better explanation on how quantum particles interact, but the thought sphere of gods and supernatural things is a static one, and it always will be. Therefore, when you incorporate any religious ideas into your world view, you are not really thinking for yourself at all - this is where the ideas of others have you!
Quote from: Baruch on November 15, 2015, 06:14:57 PM
Thanks Monsieur Descartes. I think, therefore I am. Really? I slap you across the face, therefore both of us are real. Get Empiricism not just milk.
It empirism all the way.
Quote from: Baruch on November 15, 2015, 06:14:57 PMA pile of rocks is extremely complex, more so than a single rock. Yet it is not alive.
Life is a single process. It got complex by evolution.
Quote from: facebook164 on November 15, 2015, 11:51:00 PM
It empirism all the way.
Life is a single process. It got complex by evolution.
I am not claiming the Gaia hypothesis, that everything is alive, or that the universe is a single organism. I am not even a pantheist (that the universe is G-d) but a panentheist ... that the universe is immanence of G-d, but that G-d also transcends the universe.
Quote from: Baruch on November 16, 2015, 12:10:53 AM
I am not claiming the Gaia hypothesis, that everything is alive, or that the universe is a single organism. I am not even a pantheist (that the universe is G-d) but a panentheist ... that the universe is immanence of G-d, but that G-d also transcends the universe.
? What the heck are you talking about? I am trying to discuss reality herr. You jyst writes som poetic shit.
Quote from: g2perk on November 15, 2015, 04:43:25 PM
What do you mean no use. With out knowing right from wrong how would any one know what they should or should not do. Sin ( adultery, murder, etc.)tells society if you do these types of acts you will face the consequences of Your actions.
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You always face the consequences of your actions--no matter if the consequences are good for you or bad for you (and sometimes one cannot tell which is which). The society in which one lives tells us what is a 'sin' or not a 'sin'. Wrong doing is always determined by the society as a whole. 'Good' or 'bad' is always a relative term and is largely determined by what a society thinks is what is best for the survival of that society. You learn right from wrong from you upbringing, from your peers, and your society. Then you select what is right and wrong for you. No supernatural power (since none exists) can do that for you--you have to do that by yourself and for yourself.
Quote from: g2perk on November 15, 2015, 06:30:30 PM
That's fine it can be what ever you think best but the fact still remains if you do aybeone of Ten Commandments you will face consequences point blank. Nothing may not happen to you today or tomorrow but keep doing it and see what happens. And that my friend is a promise. Maybe you know this as You reap what you sow.
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The "Ten Commandments" are just common sense rules for living in a group, plus several items intended to keep the priests employed.
I wonder how Christians rationalize the fact that other societies, ones that had never heard of Jesus or the OT until the Missionary Jihad started, developed ethical systems?
We don't need YOUR god to be moral/ethical. It follows that we don't need ANY god to be moral/ethical.
As for your threats of punishment in the afterlife...
Quote from: g2perk on November 15, 2015, 07:17:48 PM
No respond needs.........🙊
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You are a vicious little creep who teaches child abuse, and you
will be brought to justice, just like the murderous prayer healers and anti-vaxers!
:bluegrab:
Typical....you give your people a bad name.
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Quote from: g2perk on November 16, 2015, 07:43:08 AM
Typical....you give your people a bad name.
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But I got you to respond! :1rij: :madu:
"your people" - now you're talking racism, and you aren't fooling anyone by playing the peacenik!
You have no future other than prison, for fraud and assault.
Lol....you must be a lawyer
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I hear you...but we still must agree that the things in the 10 commandments if acted on can get you in trouble. If its murder than you will go to jail. That's all I am saying. I am not trying to convert none of you..just like you are not trying to convert me. We are just talking common sense.
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Quote from: peacewithoutgod on November 16, 2015, 07:52:02 AM
But I got you to respond! :1rij: :madu:
"your people" - now you're talking racism, and you aren't fooling anyone by playing the peacenik!
You have no future other than prison, for fraud and assault.
So prison you say...state your case..
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Quote from: Mike Cl on November 16, 2015, 12:21:30 AM
You always face the consequences of your actions--no matter if the consequences are good for you or bad for you (and sometimes one cannot tell which is which). The society in which one lives tells us what is a 'sin' or not a 'sin'. Wrong doing is always determined by the society as a whole. 'Good' or 'bad' is always a relative term and is largely determined by what a society thinks is what is best for the survival of that society. You learn right from wrong from you upbringing, from your peers, and your society. Then you select what is right and wrong for you. No supernatural power (since none exists) can do that for you--you have to do that by yourself and for yourself.
Maybe your right depending on what part of the world you live in...But I would hope murder is murder no matter where you live..
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Quote from: g2perk on November 16, 2015, 12:17:44 PM
Maybe your right depending on what part of the world you live in...But I would hope murder is murder no matter where you live..
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:rotflmao: :violent-smiley-007: :angry:
:afro: :toilet: :d030: :violent-smiley-007:
:1rij:
Quote from: g2perk on November 16, 2015, 12:17:44 PM
Maybe your right depending on what part of the world you live in...But I would hope murder is murder no matter where you live..
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Well................no--murder is within the group or the society you live in. If one is outside the group or society, in many societies it is okay to kill them. The American GI was free to kill all the German soldiers he could--was that murder? God murdered thousands in the OT.
Quote from: g2perk on November 16, 2015, 12:13:07 PM
I hear you...but we still must agree that the things in the 10 commandments if acted on can get you in trouble. If its murder than you will go to jail. That's all I am saying. I am not trying to convert none of you..just like you are not trying to convert me. We are just talking common sense.
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You believe the 10 Commandments are moral or just? Here is a list of the 10 Commandments from Exodus 34:14-26
The Ten Commandments
1. For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:
2. Thou shalt make thee no molten gods.
3. The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep.
4. All that openeth the matrix is mine; and every firstling among thy cattle, whether ox or sheep, that is male.
5. Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest: in earing time and in harvest thou shalt rest.
6. And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end.
7. Thrice in the year shall all your menchildren appear before the LORD God, the God of Israel.
8. Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven; neither shall the feast of the Passover be left until the morning.
9. The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring unto the house of the LORD thy God.
10. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.
I don't see murder listed here.
Yes He did. This was because the hearts of men was deceitfully wicked and would of led to the world worst off than it already is. Now I am sure many will take that and run with it but if you believe in GOD than you know he is the only one that knows the human heart. Now if you don't than this is complete foolishness. So we can compare God's action to mans actions.
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Quote from: Mike Cl on November 16, 2015, 02:23:58 PM
You believe the 10 Commandments are moral or just? Here is a list of the 10 Commandments from Exodus 34:14-26
The Ten Commandments
1. For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:
2. Thou shalt make thee no molten gods.
3. The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep.
4. All that openeth the matrix is mine; and every firstling among thy cattle, whether ox or sheep, that is male.
5. Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest: in earing time and in harvest thou shalt rest.
6. And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end.
7. Thrice in the year shall all your menchildren appear before the LORD God, the God of Israel.
8. Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven; neither shall the feast of the Passover be left until the morning.
9. The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring unto the house of the LORD thy God.
10. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.
I don't see murder listed here.
It's in the first one.
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First set of 10 commandments
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Quote from: g2perk on November 16, 2015, 02:45:29 PM
Yes He did. This was because the hearts of men was deceitfully wicked and would of led to the world worst off than it already is. Now I am sure many will take that and run with it but if you believe in GOD than you know he is the only one that knows the human heart. Now if you don't than this is complete foolishness. So we can compare God's action to mans actions.
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Your god's actions are comparable to "man's" actions - got it, and remember that - your god is surely no less the useless dickhead for this!
You must be a zombie, Xtain, because it's impossible for one so full of your shit to be breathing!
Quote from: g2perk on November 16, 2015, 03:04:00 PM
First set of 10 commandments
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How many sets do you need? God can't make up his mind? Moses can't write? And why is this set always forgotten by christians?
Quote from: g2perk on November 16, 2015, 02:45:29 PM
Yes He did. This was because the hearts of men was deceitfully wicked and would of led to the world worst off than it already is. Now I am sure many will take that and run with it but if you believe in GOD than you know he is the only one that knows the human heart. Now if you don't than this is complete foolishness. So we can compare God's action to mans actions.
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Who created this creature called man? According to you God did. Then God is the one who is responsible for what is in his heart. You have a stupid, mean, vindictive and sadistic god. Satan is a much more sane creature--and your stupid god created him, too. I find it incredibly sad you can condone such a creature, much less worship him. My heart goes out to you--I just wish part of my brain could as well.
One set is needed, but none can be followed. Why are there laws of the government and why can't people follow them. And the second one is not forgotten just not as important as the first.
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Quote from: Mike Cl on November 16, 2015, 04:13:59 PM
Who created this creature called man? According to you God did. Then God is the one who is responsible for what is in his heart. You have a stupid, mean, vindictive and sadistic god. Satan is a much more sane creature--and your stupid god created him, too. I find it incredibly sad you can condone such a creature, much less worship him. My heart goes out to you--I just wish part of my brain could as well.
If all atheist know how this world was created why can't you explain how you were made..or where you come from..or why no one person is the same..And as for as Scientists goes they can do it either. Do you have ANY answers for what you claim..
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Quote from: peacewithoutgod on November 16, 2015, 03:38:21 PM
Your god's actions are comparable to "man's" actions - got it, and remember that - your god is surely no less the useless dickhead for this!
You must be a zombie, Xtain, because it's impossible for one so full of your shit to be breathing!
As for a you go...all you do is deny this curse that cry about him...Your adolescent characteristic shows the level of intelligence in which you portray.
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Quote from: g2perk on November 16, 2015, 04:28:55 PM
If all atheist know how this world was created why can't you explain how you were made..or where you come from..or why no one person is the same..And as for as Scientists goes they can do it either. Do you have ANY answers for what you claim..
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no one here claims to have all the answers but that doesn't make god the default answer. We have science to investigate the world and get those answers. We don't just go "oh I don't know that must mean god did it." and then walk away never to give it another thought. I can't even imagine a world where we all did that. Scary!
Quote from: g2perk on November 16, 2015, 04:28:55 PM
If all atheist know how this world was created why can't you explain how you were made..or where you come from..or why no one person is the same..And as for as Scientists goes they can do it either. Do you have ANY answers for what you claim..
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"I have this book..."
I smell a god of the gaps apologist. "You can't PROVE that god doesn't exist! So, he must!"
Oh hell, shut up. You're being foolish.
There you guys go defending nothing. Does anyone here believe in spirits and demons or is that just made up as well. Be careful with the answers don't get yourselves caught up against a wall...
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Quote from: g2perk on November 16, 2015, 04:28:55 PM
If all atheist know how this world was created why can't you explain how you were made..or where you come from..or why no one person is the same..And as for as Scientists goes they can do it either. Do you have ANY answers for what you claim..
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First, it would be good if you could get your god to teach you how to write in English. I came from my parents. From where did you come? I was made by my parents, as well. It would seem to me that your perfect god would make creation perfect. Yet, as you point out, it is not. Evolution would account for that quite nicely and logically. Ooopppss! I used that nasty vile word--logically. Sorry.
Quote from: Mike Cl on November 16, 2015, 02:17:33 PM
Well................no--murder is within the group or the society you live in. If one is outside the group or society, in many societies it is okay to kill them. The American GI was free to kill all the German soldiers he could--was that murder? God murdered thousands in the OT.
G-d is too big to jail, same as a TBTJ bank ;-(
Government is authorized to do things citizens are not allowed to do ... like print money, levy taxes ... jail and kill people. It is also hard to jail a government ... if it is really bad, it can only be destroyed.
Quote from: Mike Cl on November 16, 2015, 06:21:06 PM
First, it would be good if you could get your god to teach you how to write in English. I came from my parents. From where did you come? I was made by my parents, as well. It would seem to me that your perfect god would make creation perfect. Yet, as you point out, it is not. Evolution would account for that quite nicely and logically. Ooopppss! I used that nasty vile word--logically. Sorry.
Still no answer. And humans came from where? O ...I forgot monkeys... Monkey come from where...
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Quote from: g2perk on November 16, 2015, 04:28:55 PM
If all atheist know how this world was created why can't you explain how you were made..or where you come from..or why no one person is the same..And as for as Scientists goes they can do it either. Do you have ANY answers for what you claim..
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You know as well as anyone else what answers the scientists have, or have you ignored them altogether? Science hasn't answered everything, and only an asshat expects there should be an answer for everything. What matters is not pretending you have the answer to everything, it's being honest about what you aren't presently able to answer. Someday what cannot be answered now will be answered, and then there will likely be new questions arising, because life is not the least bit simple, therefore there should never be answers as simple as yours to explain it!
Quote from: g2perk on November 16, 2015, 06:56:40 PM
Still no answer. And humans came from where? O ...I forgot monkeys... Monkey come from where...
Humans came FROM monkeys? See, this is news to your worst most evolutionary-ist. But to the rest of that world, the one that is okay with that big confusing thing called "evolution", you see, they understand that we humans didn't come "from" monkeys at all. Because they can read! Yay!
Quote from: g2perk on November 16, 2015, 04:28:55 PM
If all atheist know how this world was created why can't you explain how you were made..or where you come from..or why no one person is the same..And as for as Scientists goes they can do it either. Do you have ANY answers for what you claim..
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I have a pretty good idea how I was made - it involved my mother and my father. If you need more explained beyond that, well that's too bad, because I'm not interested in finding out - go ask your own parents how they did it! They made me different than you quite easily, in that they have different genes than your parents, and even the same parents never drop the same genes into subsequent children. Beyond that, much more can actually be known if so inquired upon, but no such answers are necessary. What we don't know we need not pretend to know, because unlike you, we don't pretend to have answers when we don't. Your claim to knowing it all only makes you the bigger liar!
Quote from: g2perk on November 16, 2015, 06:15:23 PM
There you guys go defending nothing.
(http://s3.roosterteeth.com/images/3OfSpades5265c28ddcf0d.jpg)
Quote from: g2perk on November 16, 2015, 06:15:23 PMDoes anyone here believe in spirits and demons or is that just made up as well.
No one has ever proven to my satisfaction that anything supernatural exists. That is why I am a secular humanist and not a believer in supernatural woo.
Quote from: g2perk on November 16, 2015, 04:32:22 PM
As for a you go...all you do is deny this curse that cry about him...Your adolescent characteristic shows the level of intelligence in which you portray.
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Curse? I couldn't be "denying" a curse, didn't know I had one! As for you, you really need to stop insulting adolescents, most who are far more intelligent than you, as you present yourself.
Your god created you? You, the grave insult to human intelligence which you are! I seriously doubt anything good would have done that!
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on November 16, 2015, 07:54:19 PM
(http://s3.roosterteeth.com/images/3OfSpades5265c28ddcf0d.jpg)
No one has ever proven to my satisfaction that anything supernatural exists. That is why I am a secular humanist and not a believer in supernatural woo.
Well I hear that but there are others out here in the world that has.
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Quote from: g2perk on November 16, 2015, 08:06:30 PM
Well I hear that but there are others out here in the world that has.
Good for them. They still need to prove it to me if they want me to believe that their bullshit is anything but.
Quote from: peacewithoutgod on November 16, 2015, 08:01:18 PM
Curse? I couldn't be "denying" a curse, didn't know I had one! As for you, you really need to stop insulting adolescents, most who are far more intelligent than you, as you present yourself.
Your god created you? You, the grave insult to human intelligence which you are! I seriously doubt anything good would have done that!
Okay. What happened to you are someone you know as a child. The way you reference children is scary. You think teaching them how to love others is hurting them. Are you typing your own words because the level of contradiction is incredibly annoying.
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Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on November 16, 2015, 08:10:54 PM
Good for them. They still need to prove it to me if they want me to believe that their bullshit is anything but.
Let go of your pride,Do you really think they care what you believe.
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Quote from: g2perk on November 16, 2015, 08:14:30 PM
Let go of your pride
(https://media2.giphy.com/media/xEpTspH9hGwHS/200_s.gif)
Quote from: g2perk on November 16, 2015, 08:14:30 PMDo you really think they care what you believe.
Well, you're here. So yeah, apparently some of them do.
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on November 16, 2015, 08:16:55 PM
(https://media2.giphy.com/media/xEpTspH9hGwHS/200_s.gif)
Well, you're here. So yeah, apparently some of them do.
Yes I do care, but the ones that are being chased by demons don't.
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Quote from: g2perk on November 16, 2015, 08:18:12 PM
Yes I do care, but the ones that are being chased by demons don't.
I can recommend some good mental health clinics to those individuals.
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on November 16, 2015, 08:19:01 PM
I can recommend some good mental health clinics to those individuals.
Yeah, There are some things in this world that pills can take away.
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I think this guy is losing interest in the forum. His only card left is seeing how long he can last by acting increasingly stupid. Bringing up "spirits and demons?" I think now he's just grasping for chains to yank: "You guys can't even explain everything." Wow! That just pierces my atheist heart. Next, he'll be flinging poo at the computer screen. And then we'll all be defeated once and for all as he stomps out in a victorious exit.
Quote from: g2perk on November 16, 2015, 08:20:41 PM
Yeah, There are some things in this world that pills can take away.
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Like the belief that we're being watched and graded by a deity from another dimension? Pills can fix this.
Quote from: JBCuzISaidSo on November 16, 2015, 08:51:05 PM
Like the belief that we're being watched and graded by a deity from another dimension? Pills can fix this.
What if I said GOD exist JBCuzISaidSo. Love you name by the way.
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Quote from: JBCuzISaidSo on November 16, 2015, 08:51:05 PM
Like the belief that we're being watched and graded by a deity from another dimension? Pills can fix this.
Yea, very few spooks can stick around with 800 mg of Thorazine in the crazy... Maybe you should try it, g2perk.
Quote from: g2perk on November 16, 2015, 08:54:19 PM
What if I said GOD exist JBCuzISaidSo. Love you name by the way.
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On a serious note. This is what I believe. Everyone is ultimately responsible for their own actions..Free will..I am taught to do it with integrity for for my own good.
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Quote from: g2perk on November 16, 2015, 08:54:19 PM
What if I said GOD exist JBCuzISaidSo. Love you name by the way.
You can SAY it all you want to. Prove it, we'll be talking about something substantive. You could actually change my mind.
My name came from how I was raised, by Pentecostal fundamentalists. Snake handlers. Whose ridiculously large claims came with tiny proof. Just like yours!
This thread is a little ... bizarre.
g2perk, what exactly are you trying to say here?
Quote from: JBCuzISaidSo on November 16, 2015, 09:13:24 PM
You can SAY it all you want to. Prove it, we'll be talking about something substantive. You could actually change my mind.
My name came from how I was raised, by Pentecostal fundamentalists. Snake handlers. Whose ridiculously large claims came with tiny proof. Just like yours!
I am willing to try if you have an open mind.
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Quote from: g2perk on November 16, 2015, 09:32:35 PM
I am willing to try if you have an open mind.
Oh good Christ. If you'd just open your mind, that really we're a flat earth supported on a turtles back by elephants.....
Quote from: Jason_Harvestdancer on November 16, 2015, 09:15:16 PM
This thread is a little ... bizarre.
g2perk, what exactly are you trying to say here?
Jason! You're being judgey lol.....
Quote from: JBCuzISaidSo on November 16, 2015, 09:37:53 PM
Oh good Christ. If you'd just open your mind, that really we're a flat earth supported on a turtles back by elephants.....
Jason! You're being judgey lol.....
What's bizarre
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:popcorn:
Quote from: JBCuzISaidSo on November 16, 2015, 09:13:24 PM
You can SAY it all you want to. Prove it, we'll be talking about something substantive. You could actually change my mind.
My name came from how I was raised, by Pentecostal fundamentalists. Snake handlers. Whose ridiculously large claims came with tiny proof. Just like yours!
So what turned you away..
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Quote from: g2perk on November 16, 2015, 10:13:20 PM
So what turned you away..
Nothing. No substance, no belief whatsoever in the supernatural, no need of another dimension or life after death, even to include the karma of living a good life, nothing to make me feel "whole". Nothing turned me away, nothing at all.
So you just hadn't found the rock to which you can lay a handle on yet. A for sure thing.
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Quote from: g2perk on November 16, 2015, 10:34:03 PM
So you just hadn't found the rock to which you can lay a handle on yet. A for sure thing.
My "rock", you must mean my kids? Obviously, if I'm taking your posts personally like I should. Because if that's the case then I have your rock right here, pal. My kids, incidentally, are not Christians, either.
Forgive me. Nothing personal this just how I speak when Im talking about My faith. In life today we all need a Rock. That's where our Beliefs come from.
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Quote from: g2perk on November 16, 2015, 10:54:07 PM
Forgive me. Nothing personal this just how I speak when Im talking about My faith. In life today we all need a Rock. That's where our Beliefs come from.
::she grins::
Do delve further, what might be your rock? Is it here, in the real world? Or does it reside someplace else? Tell the world. We need to know.
Quote from: g2perk on November 16, 2015, 10:54:07 PMForgive me. Nothing personal this just how I speak when Im talking about My faith. In life today we all need a Rock. That's where our Beliefs come from.
I neither have nor need a "rock." My beliefs come from reasoning and logic. Based on reasoning and logic, I believe you are a presumptuous prick.
(https://i.imgur.com/FgJeeif.png)
Quote from: JBCuzISaidSo on November 16, 2015, 10:59:42 PM
::she grins::
Do delve further, what might be your rock? Is it here, in the real world? Or does it reside someplace else? Tell the world. We need to know.
HE THAT IS IN ME IS GREATER THAN HE THAT IS OF THE WORLD.
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Quote from: g2perk on November 16, 2015, 11:09:06 PM
HE THAT IS IN ME IS GREATER THAN HE THAT IS OF THE WORLD.
Is he that is in you an actual person? Because I love Matt Damon, but he's never been "in me".
Sorry, AF, I'm bored and testy LOL.......love Matt Damon, though.....have you seen The Martian?.......
Quote from: JBCuzISaidSo on November 16, 2015, 11:23:02 PM
Is he that is in you an actual person? Because I love Matt Damon, but he's never been "in me".
Sorry, AF, I'm bored and testy LOL.......love Matt Damon, though.....have you seen The Martian?.......
He is the person that discerns the world's that separate man's nature.
And no I haven't seen that movie, is it good
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It's excellent, The Martian. Do go see it.
Man's nature is subjective, and an out dated holy book written 2,000 years ago by desert dwellers that considered women as property is exactly as subjective as that woman will let you be.
Quote from: g2perk on November 16, 2015, 06:56:40 PM
Still no answer. And humans came from where? O ...I forgot monkeys... Monkey come from where...
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I really do feel sorry for you. I can see that reading is very difficult for you--and reasoning is beyond your grasp. All I can really do is to pat you on your head, and go, 'there, there...................'.
Quote from: g2perk on November 16, 2015, 11:09:06 PM
HE THAT IS IN ME IS GREATER THAN HE THAT IS OF THE WORLD.
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Quite the comedian you are, aren't you??! Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha................................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote from: g2perk on November 16, 2015, 08:14:30 PM
Let go of your pride,Do you really think they care what you believe.
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Let go of
your pride, you delusional monkey!
QuoteLet go of your pride,Do you really think they care what you believe.
Quote from: peacewithoutgod on November 17, 2015, 12:07:08 AM
Let go of your pride, you delusional monkey!
Here's the bigger issue, who is "they" here? Aliens? Sasquatch? I mean, holy shit, who is the "they" in this sentence?
Quote from: g2perk on November 16, 2015, 09:01:35 PM
On a serious note. This is what I believe. Everyone is ultimately responsible for their own actions..Free will..I am taught to do it with integrity for for my own good.
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Please, stop murdering the word "serious" -
seriously!When you eventually give up on us, you will likely console yourself with the opposite lie that few are chosen of many who are "called". It wasn't your fault, it was your god knocking at the door and speaking through you (YEAaaah), because he needed to show himself that he had made his appeals through you to bring his lost sheep into the fold, even while knowing (because he sees everything before it happens) that we would not swallow the hook. Which means either that no god is better at making ludicrously false claims, or that your god excels above all others at wasting time and effort.
Quote from: g2perk on November 16, 2015, 10:13:20 PM
So what turned you away..
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:72: :1rij: :57: :1rij: :57: :1rij: :72:
Quote from: g2perk on November 16, 2015, 10:54:07 PM
Forgive me. Nothing personal this just how I speak when Im talking about My faith. In life today we all need a Rock. That's where our Beliefs come from.
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Some of us have rocks in the head, and some of us just need better metaphors.
Quote from: peacewithoutgod on November 17, 2015, 12:28:19 AM
:72: :1rij: :57: :1rij: :57: :1rij: :72:
NO OBVIOUS POSTS. Dillhole broke the rules.
Quote from: g2perk on November 16, 2015, 10:54:07 PM
Forgive me. Nothing personal this just how I speak when Im talking about My faith. In life today we all need a Rock. That's where our Beliefs come from.
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My rock:
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/ODAwWDU5OA==/z/CzMAAOxyNDhSaAj2/$%28KGrHqZHJBoFJfGTBIQCBS,!j1kslw~~60_35.JPG)
Quote from: g2perk on November 16, 2015, 11:09:06 PM
HE THAT IS IN ME IS GREATER THAN HE THAT IS OF THE WORLD.
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So you admit to being gay for that imaginary friend of yours? He gives you that not-of-this-Earth feeling, uh-huh?
Quote from: JBCuzISaidSo on November 17, 2015, 12:12:34 AM
Here's the bigger issue, who is "they" here? Aliens? Sasquatch? I mean, holy shit, who is the "they" in this sentence?
My all-time favorite B-movie with Roddy Piper:
(http://www.chicagonow.com/internet-rehab/files/2013/03/they-live-movie.jpg)
Quote from: g2perk on November 16, 2015, 10:54:07 PM
Forgive me. Nothing personal this just how I speak when Im talking about My faith. In life today we all need a Rock. That's where our Beliefs come from.
Since you need a rock, everyone else does too? This is entirely false. Beliefs that come from rocks, or to interpret your stupid metaphor more accurately, "ideas that cannot change," prevent growth and the accumulation of knowledge. It's not something a half way intelligent person would even desire.
Fortunately the dark ages were replaced by the age of reason, and civilization began to drag itself out of the swamp of ignorance. No thanks to the rock believers, however. At first a few stalwart thinkers started to actually figure things out for themselves, sometimes at great personal peril, even threatened by death from the church (the biggest impediment to growth and knowledge). Others began to follow, realizing the failure of the believers in unchangeable ideas that caused centuries of human misery and stagnation, they began to use reason to discover truths, and society began to advance.
You are wrong about everyone needing rocks. We especially don't want your addiction to rocks. Yes, you can freeload in your ignorance and get swept along by those who advance knowledge and improve your life with better with doctors, hospitals, police departments, and heaven forbid, schools to educate your children. Yes, not all of your children will be held in your captivity of ignorance. Some will break free and make actual contributions to society, which you will benefit from.
Quote from: g2perk on November 16, 2015, 11:09:06 PM
HE THAT IS IN ME IS GREATER THAN HE THAT IS OF THE WORLD.
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But do you know what that means? I agree with that, but it may mean something different to me than it does to you. It isn't a slogan.
The interior life of a person is the proper focus of life, not the exterior life of a person. It means ... interiority ... and implies contemplation comes before expression. The Bible isn't an easy read, particularly the NT. Most people, include most atheists, are literalists.
g2perk ... a posting style that is disjointed, isn't working for you. That is what was weird.
Also I think you know now this is Fight Club ... don't expect to come here and not face a flurry of fists. Good fists ... but fists!
Quote from: peacewithoutgod on November 17, 2015, 12:30:04 AM
Some of us have rocks in the head, and some of us just need better metaphors.
Your lack of one is the reason your here.
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Quote from: peacewithoutgod on November 17, 2015, 12:35:59 AM
My rock:
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/ODAwWDU5OA==/z/CzMAAOxyNDhSaAj2/$%28KGrHqZHJBoFJfGTBIQCBS,!j1kslw~~60_35.JPG)
Everyone has one.
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Quote from: SGOS on November 17, 2015, 06:04:54 AM
Since you need a rock, everyone else does too? This is entirely false. Beliefs that come from rocks, or to interpret your stupid metaphor more accurately, "ideas that cannot change," prevent growth and the accumulation of knowledge. It's not something a half way intelligent person would even desire.
Fortunately the dark ages were replaced by the age of reason, and civilization began to drag itself out of the swamp of ignorance. No thanks to the rock believers, however. At first a few stalwart thinkers started to actually figure things out for themselves, sometimes at great personal peril, even threatened by death from the church (the biggest impediment to growth and knowledge). Others began to follow, realizing the failure of the believers in unchangeable ideas that caused centuries of human misery and stagnation, they began to use reason to discover truths, and society began to advance.
You are wrong about everyone needing rocks. We especially don't want your addiction to rocks. Yes, you can freeload in your ignorance and get swept along by those who advance knowledge and improve your life with better with doctors, hospitals, police departments, and heaven forbid, schools to educate your children. Yes, not all of your children will be held in your captivity of ignorance. Some will break free and make actual contributions to society, which you will benefit from.
Let me help you here....A rock in the metaphorical sense is not just something that cannot change its something that is always consistent in your life. Something good.
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Quote from: JBCuzISaidSo on November 16, 2015, 11:43:43 PM
It's excellent, The Martian. Do go see it.
Man's nature is subjective, and an out dated holy book written 2,000 years ago by desert dwellers that considered women as property is exactly as subjective as that woman will let you be.
So are you saying good changes cannot come from old wrong doings.
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Quote from: SGOS on November 17, 2015, 06:04:54 AM
Since you need a rock, everyone else does too? This is entirely false. Beliefs that come from rocks, or to interpret your stupid metaphor more accurately, "ideas that cannot change," prevent growth and the accumulation of knowledge. It's not something a half way intelligent person would even desire.
Fortunately the dark ages were replaced by the age of reason, and civilization began to drag itself out of the swamp of ignorance. No thanks to the rock believers, however. At first a few stalwart thinkers started to actually figure things out for themselves, sometimes at great personal peril, even threatened by death from the church (the biggest impediment to growth and knowledge). Others began to follow, realizing the failure of the believers in unchangeable ideas that caused centuries of human misery and stagnation, they began to use reason to discover truths, and society began to advance.
You are wrong about everyone needing rocks. We especially don't want your addiction to rocks. Yes, you can freeload in your ignorance and get swept along by those who advance knowledge and improve your life with better with doctors, hospitals, police departments, and heaven forbid, schools to educate your children. Yes, not all of your children will be held in your captivity of ignorance. Some will break free and make actual contributions to society, which you will benefit from.
Still, the rocks can be useful - on life and origins, there's much evidence which they've revealed :s_cool:
Quote from: Baruch on November 17, 2015, 06:48:44 AM
But do you know what that means? I agree with that, but it may mean something different to me than it does to you. It isn't a slogan.
The interior life of a person is the proper focus of life, not the exterior life of a person. It means ... interiority ... and implies contemplation comes before expression. The Bible isn't an easy read, particularly the NT. Most people, include most atheists, are literalists.
g2perk ... a posting style that is disjointed, isn't working for you. That is what was weird.
Also I think you know now this is Fight Club ... don't expect to come here and not face a flurry of fists. Good fists ... but fists!
Yeah I know they are hard on me here. But that's okay. But,for this phrase to me means the fight with the outer forces of this world is only conquered by ones inner ability to understand it.
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Quote from: g2perk on November 17, 2015, 07:56:18 AM
Yeah I know they are hard on me here. But that's okay. But,for this phrase to me means the fight with the outer forces of this world is only conquered by ones inner ability to understand it.
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If you didn't you wouldn't be able to troll effectively.
Quote from: g2perk on November 17, 2015, 07:56:18 AM
Yeah I know they are hard on me here. But that's okay. But,for this phrase to me means the fight with the outer forces of this world is only conquered by ones inner ability to understand it.
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(http://bitchspot.jadedragononline.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/jesus_troll_face.png)
Quote from: peacewithoutgod on November 17, 2015, 09:24:42 AM
(http://bitchspot.jadedragononline.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/jesus_troll_face.png)
Maybe...
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Quote from: g2perk on November 17, 2015, 09:45:22 AM
Maybe...
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(http://i.imgur.com/pVyolk2.png)
Quote from: g2perk on November 17, 2015, 09:45:22 AM
Maybe...
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All of us with human language today evolved from an ape, and we're evolutionary cousins to the apes which exist today. Then there's the much more distantly-related troll species which have recently evolved out of our internet sewers...
Quote from: peacewithoutgod on November 17, 2015, 10:31:45 AM
All of us with human language today evolved from an ape, and we're evolutionary cousins to the apes which exist today. Then there's the much more distantly-related troll species which have recently evolved out of our internet sewers...
That I'd the dumbest thing any body can say...I mean literally Dumb.
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Quote from: g2perk on November 17, 2015, 11:00:29 AM
That I'd the dumbest thing any body can say...I mean literally Dumb.
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That was the most wishful and childish grouse I have ever seen - maybe, if you tell yourself that enough times, it may even become true!
(http://media.makeameme.org/created/oh-you-wish-4bkp4o.jpg)
Scientists are all idiots - OK!
You have your ideas, which you insist must be true, because the far-outdated and historically hysterical writings of an ignorant old shepherd, drawn of ancient world ideas (such as the spontaneous generation of vermin, human sacrifice, rape, genocide, misogyny, slavery, murder, torture) told you. Hysterical, that you are!
(http://treasure.diylol.com/uploads/post/image/489247/resized_joseph-ducreux-meme-generator-you-wish-to-engage-in-fisticuffs-well-then-cometh-at-me-brethren-2db579.jpg)
For you Mr. peace.
Did you know humans share 96% with chimps 90% with cats 80% with cows and 75% with mice and so on and so forth. Now with this info ( your history) this still does not prove humans evolved from animals this scientific information only tells us that humans share a common ancestor in the past. So where do humans descend from. How was everything started. To you honestly believe from an explosion in the earth. If you do believe this than that means you believe in something that you or no one on this earth has ever seen. Talk about make believe. So I agree life did evolve but not from nothing.
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Quote from: g2perk on November 17, 2015, 12:15:54 PM
For you Mr. peace.
Did you know humans share 96% with chimps 90% with cats 80% with cows and 75% with mice and so on and so forth. Now with this info ( your history) this still does not prove humans evolved from animals this scientific information only tells us that humans share a common ancestor in the past. So where do humans descend from. How was everything started. To you honestly believe from an explosion in the earth. If you do believe this than that means you believe in something that you or no one on this earth has ever seen. Talk about make believe. So I agree life did evolve but not from nothing.
Looking at things the wrong way, people do. Whatever is happening today is relevant, whatever happened in the past is disputable. As soon as a person says I know what happened before I was born, or happened where I wasn't present ... they are telling tales. And as soon as a person says they know what will happen in the future ... hide your wallet ;-)
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Is he talking about the Pre-Comedian Explosion?
Quote from: g2perk on November 17, 2015, 11:00:29 AM
That I'd the dumbest thing any body can say...I mean literally Dumb.
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Not when referring to you.
Quote from: g2perk on November 17, 2015, 12:15:54 PM
For you Mr. peace.
Did you know humans share 96% with chimps 90% with cats 80% with cows and 75% with mice and so on and so forth. Now with this info ( your history) this still does not prove humans evolved from animals this scientific information only tells us that humans share a common ancestor in the past. So where do humans descend from. How was everything started. To you honestly believe from an explosion in the earth. If you do believe this than that means you believe in something that you or no one on this earth has ever seen. Talk about make believe. So I agree life did evolve but not from nothing.
There are questions which nobody will ever answer accurately while we are alive - get over it! Not knowing any answer is categorically better than knowing a bad one.
"...explosion in this earth..."??? Not in this earth. (https://ungaman.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/nasa_hubble_2009_babygalaxies.jpg)
See the infant galaxies forming - do you think they are new galaxies forming right now, at over 13 billion light years away? This is a shot of the past, stupid! Yes, we've gone back in our time machine (it's called a telescope), as far back as it will take us, and that's significantly farther back than the beginnings of human agriculture.
I don't have to explain to you how it all started, which I did not purport to know. What is known is available for you to learn from, but I know you won't learn anything because you never shut your flap long enough to hear anything other than the sound of it flapping.
What isn't known does not prove any god invented by the ignorant to fill the gaps. There will always be gaps, because the universe is far greater and far more complex than us. None of this requires a supernatural sky-daddy to explain anything that can be explained, when it can be explained!