Say thank you, bitches:
https://youtu.be/tHzFnqJNg3o
https://occupycorporatism.com/anonymous-takes-the-hood-off-kkk-members-amid-denials-by-officials/
http://atlantaprogressivenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/kkk.png
(http://atlantaprogressivenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/kkk.png)
https://anonintelgroup.wordpress.com/2015/10/28/opkkk-press-release/
"Ku Klux Klan, We never stopped watching you. We know who you are. We know the dangerous extent to which you will go to cover your asses. Originally, we did not attack you for your beliefs as we fight for freedom of speech. We attacked you due to your threats to use lethal force in the Ferguson protests. We took this grudge between us rather seriously. You continue to threaten anons and others. We never said we would only strike once....." (read more)
As a North Carolinian, Thom Tillis isn't much of a shock.
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 02, 2015, 04:44:29 PM
As a North Carolinian, Thom Tillis isn't much of a shock.
Well then, makes me more than a little sick to my tummy that people vote for this shit and there they sit, in a seat of power. Let the world know who they are.
No skepticism at all here? Lexington Mayor Jim Gray is on the list. He is openly gay. Last I heard gay wasn't a popular lifestyle choice for the KKK.
Quote from: JBCuzISaidSo on November 02, 2015, 05:02:31 PM
Well then, makes me more than a little sick to my tummy that people vote for this shit and there they sit, in a seat of power. Let the world know who they are.
He's a pretty unabashed piece of human garbage (http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/Thom_Tillis.htm). Being a confirmed racist (should this KKK accusation be confirmed) would just be icing on the cake.
Quote from: PopeyesPappy on November 02, 2015, 05:11:04 PM
No skepticism at all here? Lexington Mayor Jim Gray is on the list. He is openly gay. Last I heard gay wasn't a popular lifestyle choice for the KKK.
Stranger things have happened. Anon says he'll release the evidence on the 5th. We'll know if it's legit then.
Apparently, they've done this sort of thing before. This time it's a little juicer with actual congressmen instead of the typical white trash.
They seem to have good intentions, but...
It's slightly unnerving how this group assumes they have the absolute moral high ground. Who do they represent? Where are they going with this?
It seems they are capable of causing massive problems if they put their mind to it.
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 02, 2015, 05:12:26 PM
He's a pretty unabashed piece of human garbage (http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/Thom_Tillis.htm). Being a confirmed racist (should this KKK accusation be confirmed) would just be icing on the cake.
He's pretty set on, and aims his voting record towards, Republican "values". No worries, the more he is shared via Anonymous, the further he will fall, just like the rest. "Family values" are such a crock of horse shit when it comes to those that freely claim Republican.
Remember, remember, the 5th of November.....
Quote from: Cocoa Beware on November 02, 2015, 05:28:14 PMIt seems they are capable of causing massive problems if they put their mind to it.
Anonymous? Yes, they can and have. They did the infamous 2011 Playstation server outage. And they also attacked Scientology and the Westboro Baptists. So, there's good and bad. Anonymous is like a swarm of killer bees. They're great against people you don't like, but they're not so great when they turn around and chase after you.
QuoteWho do they represent?
No one. Everyone.
Quote from: Cocoa Beware on November 02, 2015, 05:28:14 PM
They seem to have good intentions, but...
It's slightly unnerving how this group assumes they have the absolute moral high ground. Who do they represent? Where are they going with this?
It seems they are capable of causing massive problems if they put their mind to it.
They definitely gave Scientology some major headaches.
Perhaps Anonymous should reveal themselves as well so these people can have an opportunity to face their accusers.
Quote from: Jack89 on November 02, 2015, 07:17:22 PM
Perhaps Anonymous should reveal themselves as well so these people can have an opportunity to face their accusers.
You mean you would like to see him/her killed. Why?
Quote from: Jack89 on November 02, 2015, 07:17:22 PM
Perhaps Anonymous should reveal themselves as well so these people can have an opportunity to face their accusers.
well certainly one could post random names and suggest all kinds of "evildoings" but why would anyone do that eh?
Yeah, I like the idea originally but the nature of the game kinda vendors the findings as mere sour grapes.
I really like the idea of anonymous, but there is absolutely nothing that indicates what they present as the truth is actually……true
Releasing names is one thing, are they releasing anything to back it up ?
Quote from: aitm on November 02, 2015, 10:13:39 PMI really like the idea of anonymous, but there is absolutely nothing that indicates what they present as the truth is actually……true
Quote from: Termin on November 02, 2015, 10:32:34 PM
Releasing names is one thing, are they releasing anything to back it up ?
Jeezy-petes, guys. Anon said that the evidence will be presented on Nov 5th.
Here's some background (http://www.computerworld.com/article/3000372/cybercrime-hacking/operation-kkk-leaks-will-anonymous-yank-kkk-hoods-off-of-politicians-cops-feds.html) for those of us just tuning in.
QuoteLast year, the KKK distributed flyers that threatened to use lethal force against Ferguson “terrorists masquerading as ‘peaceful protesters.’†After that snagged the attention of Anonymous, the KKK later threatened to shoot anyone wearing a Guy Fawkes mask. But this year it is the IntelGroup under the Anonymous banner calling the KKK “terrorists†and promising to strip KKK members of their anonymity.
“You once told Anonymous that we awakened a sleeping giant within you,†Anonymous told the KKK. “We are here to remind you once againâ€"you summoned an unslayable dragon.â€
The first batch of doxing came in the form of three dumps on Pastebin; the leaked lists include a personal website, over 40 phone numbers and a couple dozen email addresses belonging to alleged KKK members. A new dump of 13 phone numbers were leaked today via Pastebin; there is also an ongoing tweeted doxing campaign, thus far naming a pastor, a senator and cops who are allegedly members of the Ku Klux Klan.
According to an OpKKK press release dated Nov. 1, members of Anonymous said they “shut down servers,†had “gotten personal information on members of the KKK, and infiltrated your Twitters and websites. And this is just the beginning. On November the 4th we will be having a Twitter storm, spreading awareness about the operation. And on the 5th we shall release more than 1,000 Ku Klux Klan members names and websites, new and old.â€
“We never forgot your threats to the protesters in Ferguson, and we certainly never forgave you,†read the second press release by Anonymous. “More than four hundred years ago a great citizen wished to embed the Fifth of November forever in our memory. His hope was to remind the world that fairness, justice, and freedom are more than words, they are perspectives.†It goes on to call kindred spirits to stand together and give the KKK a Fifth of November that “shall never, ever†be forgotten.
tldr; KKK threatens Ferguson protesters and later threatens to shoot anyone wearing a Guy Fawkes mask, the symbol of Anonymous. Anonymous retaliates with its standard DDoS atttacks and also allegedly managed to snag identifying info on KKK members, threatens to make it all public on Nov 5th.
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 02, 2015, 11:14:07 PM
Here's some background (http://www.computerworld.com/article/3000372/cybercrime-hacking/operation-kkk-leaks-will-anonymous-yank-kkk-hoods-off-of-politicians-cops-feds.html) for those of us just tuning in.
tldr; KKK threatens Ferguson protesters and later threatens to shoot anyone wearing a Guy Fawkes mask, the symbol of Anonymous. Anonymous retaliates with its standard DDoS atttacks and also allegedly managed to snag identifying info on KKK members, threatens to make it all public on Nov 5th.
I know from my own sources, just how much sentiment was against Ferguson rioters (not marchers) ... aside from the original "police brutality" question. I do not support vigilante action by either side ... and rioters are just exploiting the situation for personal gain. America is afraid of marchers, and will get violent with rioters ... though this is properly a National Guard situation.
I'm interested to know how they tracked down these KKK members in the first place. It's not exactly like Ashley Madison where all you need to do is hack a website, unless the KKK has some secret photo-sharing server or something.
Quote from: TomFoolery on November 03, 2015, 08:07:34 AM
I'm interested to know how they tracked down these KKK members in the first place. It's not exactly like Ashley Madison where all you need to do is hack a website, unless the KKK has some secret photo-sharing server or something.
Fact checking and source checking is always good. I watched MSNBC last night (well, while playing Mad Max, so it easily could have missed something) to see if they would report on it. Nothing. So, I'll wait to what else develops before I make up my mind.
Quote from: Mike Cl on November 02, 2015, 09:35:25 PM
You mean you would like to see him/her killed. Why?
I see Anonymous and the KKK as two sides of the same coin. They both hide their identity to avoid harm while they intimidate others into accepting their ideology. Anonymous just made these people targets, whether their allegations are true or not.
Quote from: JBCuzISaidSo on November 02, 2015, 04:24:03 PM
Say thank you, bitches:
I never thanked anyone who called me a "bitch", and I'm not about to start now. If you want to be treated more respectfully, then you need to learn how to treat others the same.
Quote from: peacewithoutgod on November 03, 2015, 09:57:07 AM
I never thanked anyone who called me a "bitch", and I'm not about to start now. If you want to be treated more respectfully, then you need to learn how to treat others the same.
(http://replygif.net/i/596.gif)
Quote from: Jack89 on November 03, 2015, 09:15:58 AM
I see Anonymous and the KKK as two sides of the same coin. They both hide their identity to avoid harm while they intimidate others into accepting their ideology. Anonymous just made these people targets, whether their allegations are true or not.
I guess we'll have to wait until these allegations hold any water, until the 5th. I'll reserve my opinion until then.
Quote from: Jack89 on November 03, 2015, 09:15:58 AM
I see Anonymous and the KKK as two sides of the same coin. They both hide their identity to avoid harm while they intimidate others into accepting their ideology. Anonymous just made these people targets, whether their allegations are true or not.
Yeah, I see your point.
Quote from: peacewithoutgod on November 03, 2015, 09:57:07 AM
I never thanked anyone who called me a "bitch", and I'm not about to start now. If you want to be treated more respectfully, then you need to learn how to treat others the same.
Then don't thank them. It wasn't an order. :s_laugh:
Quote from: Jack89 on November 03, 2015, 09:15:58 AMI see Anonymous and the KKK as two sides of the same coin. They both hide their identity to avoid harm while they intimidate others into accepting their ideology. Anonymous just made these people targets, whether their allegations are true or not.
They do both use anonymity and harass a target. However, the KKK has a unifying ideology (white supremacy) while anonymous does not (on a good day, they could be called cyber activists for a wide variety of causes). And to my knowledge, Anonymous has never lynched anyone, so there's another tiny difference as well. To me, it's more along the lines of The Punisher VS Red Skull. Sure, no one's on the right side of the law in that fight, but their motivations are substantially different.
Quote from: PopeyesPappy on November 02, 2015, 05:11:04 PM
No skepticism at all here? Lexington Mayor Jim Gray is on the list. He is openly gay. Last I heard gay wasn't a popular lifestyle choice for the KKK.
As usual, Popeye, you are correct. I *normally* check and triple check when I post something here, part of the joy of AF. I did not do that this round. I tend towards belief only on the knowledge that Anonymous has been threatening this for a time, and that I want to know who associates. I can't, currently, find any contradictory information, which usually means jack all at this point.
So I'm still trusting that the information posted is correct, but that could change with new stuff. Tomorrow is only the 4th.
It just surprises me, that when we get so many atheists on this site that need to talk about their beliefs anonymously, because of possible retribution from family etc, that the right to anonymity is by many not seen as something that should be protected for its own sake.
But I suppose most Americans still don't see a problem with a lynching as long as its the baddies being hung.
(https://www.democracynow.org/images/story/70/26970/splash/Lynching-Report.jpg)
Back in the day, public executions were entertainment for the public, same as the Colosseum. Authorized or not.
Vigilance committees operated, whether called KKK or something else.
Well, which are we trying to save; elected officials that actually hate race, (and why shouldn't those dickwads be called out), or real pertinent issues sans race facing everybody.
I don't personally call for the death of the man/woman/human that believes their race is somehow superior, all I'd like is knowing who they are and if they're getting public votes, and for WHAT, blatant racism or actual facts.
Quote from: jonb on November 03, 2015, 01:13:56 PM
It just surprises me, that when we get so many atheists on this site that need to talk about their beliefs anonymously, because of possible retribution from family etc, that the right to anonymity is by many not seen as something that should be protected for its own sake.
I agree. However, as the name implies, public officials are not subject to the same level of privacy as private citizens. Their alleged association with a hate group is very much of public interest.
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 03, 2015, 02:37:16 PM
I agree. However, as the name implies, public officials are not subject to the same level of privacy as private citizens. Their alleged association with a hate group is very much of public interest.
Well, from what I understand, they're not exclusively naming public officials with ties to the KKK but anyone with involvement and it just so happens that some public officials might be involved.
Yeah. And it goes without saying that doxxing is morally wrong. Though I suppose being involved in a hate group and threatening to shoot people is also morally wrong. There's definitely no hero in this fight.
If they are public officials who have an elected position to influence peoples lives... have at it. Dig up all the dirt on them you want if it involves bigotry.
The one's who aren't though, that does start to cross where I find it morally justified. I think in this case we can all agree the KKK are assholes and, frankly, terrorists despite their complexion, and at the very least had it coming when they poked the bee hive... justifiably questionable, but to be expected. But that line of "Who is an asshole who has it coming" gets blurrier and blurrier... how can you say it's acceptable in one instance, and not in another? If we set a precedent that it is an acceptable practice, then eventually it will start to bite us in the ass.
That said, still not going to shed a tear for them. Just don't know if I agree with it.
Quote from: Shiranu on November 03, 2015, 08:16:43 PM
If they are public officials who have an elected position to influence peoples lives... have at it. Dig up all the dirt on them you want if it involves bigotry.
The one's who aren't though, that does start to cross where I find it morally justified. I think in this case we can all agree the KKK are assholes and, frankly, terrorists despite their complexion, and at the very least had it coming when they poked the bee hive... justifiably questionable, but to be expected. But that line of "Who is an asshole who has it coming" gets blurrier and blurrier... how can you say it's acceptable in one instance, and not in another? If we set a precedent that it is an acceptable practice, then eventually it will start to bite us in the ass.
That said, still not going to shed a tear for them. Just don't know if I agree with it.
Public officials shouldn't be re-elected, they need to be tarred and feathered at the end of their first term ... so they have something to look forward to (sarc).
One of the names is openly gay. Hardly KKK material.
Take pronouncements from Anonymous with a grain of salt.
Quote from: Shiranu on November 03, 2015, 08:16:43 PM
That said, still not going to shed a tear for them. Just don't know if I agree with it.
You probably won't see, but this is why you and PR look exactly the same to me. I hear both of you saying 'They are bad and I won't lift a finger to help them. My side are good and I can find every reason to excuse my set.' True the two of you see who is good and who is bad differently, but you are both calling for a tyranny run by your set of good people.
For me democracy cannot work unless we are prepared to defend the rights of even those we despise.
Quote from: jonb on November 04, 2015, 05:35:13 AM
You probably won't see, but this is why you and PR look exactly the same to me. I hear both of you saying 'They are bad and I won't lift a finger to help them. My side are good and I can find every reason to excuse my set.' True the two of you see who is good and who is bad differently, but you are both calling for a tyranny run by your set of good people.
For me democracy cannot work unless we are prepared to defend the rights of even those we despise.
Er... I just said I don't think it should be done, I am just not going to feel overly sorry for someone who hit the hornet nest and got stung. Just like I don't think someone should be beaten by cops, but if they just got done murdering someone and were taunting the cops I wouldn't feel sorry for them. That doesn't mean I support police brutality or think it's acceptable, I just have a hard time feeling bad for the victim in that situation.
Quote from: jonb on November 04, 2015, 05:35:13 AM
You probably won't see, but this is why you and PR look exactly the same to me. I hear both of you saying 'They are bad and I won't lift a finger to help them. My side are good and I can find every reason to excuse my set.' True the two of you see who is good and who is bad differently, but you are both calling for a tyranny run by your set of good people.
For me democracy cannot work unless we are prepared to defend the rights of even those we despise.
This. Neo-lib is to claim to be good, and use that as an excuse for tyranny. Admittedly better than neo-con, where you claim to be bad-ass and don't care what others think. For example, Angela Merkel and Barak Obama are neo-lib ... they impose tyranny on their respective nations ... for their (nation's) own good. For example, David Cameron and Dick Cheney are neo-con ... they impose tyranny on their respective nations ... for "their" (personal) own good. Both are Machiavellian. Good cop/bad cop. Neither are interested in democracy, just autocracy.
Both King Louis XVI and his brother (future King Louis XVIII) were autocrats. King Louis XVI played good cop, holding an Etat Generale to pay off debts, rather than just predating on the people. His brother played bad cop, when the Etat Generale found its own purpose independent of the King ... he proposed to kill the deputies. King Louis XVI ended up as a dead constitutional monarch. His brother survived the revolution and the return of Napoleon. Similarly Merkel and Obama play with fire ... and potentially delegitimate their respective regimes. Cameron and Cheney, when faced with opposition, crush it like a bug ... and potentially alienate their subjects. Soft fail vs hard fail.
...I don't know why I bothered saying I disagree with it since, while it was done against a group most people can agree are a bunch of assholes, it could just as easily be used against everyone else and I am not comfortable with that. And Anon, my side? Hardly, I have never liked them...
Some how that now means I am a tyrant and a bigot who thinks it's acceptable...
Right then.
Quote from: Shiranu on November 04, 2015, 06:48:16 AM
...I don't know why I bothered saying I disagree with it since, while it was done against a group most people can agree are a bunch of assholes, it could just as easily be used against everyone else and I am not comfortable with that. And Anon, my side? Hardly, I have never liked them...
Some how that now means I am a tyrant and a bigot who thinks it's acceptable...
Right then.
Not a tyrant ... just not PC in a democratic way. Others here play the bigot. But perhaps defending minority opinion at all costs ... can be taken too far. Sometimes anti- action is just as partisan.
Quote from: Shiranu on November 04, 2015, 06:43:00 AM
Er... I just said I don't think it should be done, I am just not going to feel overly sorry for someone who hit the hornet nest and got stung. Just like I don't think someone should be beaten by cops, but if they just got done murdering someone and were taunting the cops I wouldn't feel sorry for them. That doesn't mean I support police brutality or think it's acceptable, I just have a hard time feeling bad for the victim in that situation.
No, you can't see it can you, even though you have read the refugee thread and seen the PR line 'they brought this on themselves' how many times?
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3507/3459314874_e413223af9.jpg)
As also recently posted elsewhere ... sometimes we are dealing with incompetence, not malice. Though of course it could be both. I have no idea why Anonymous does what it does, but I am familiar with the KKK. And yes, outing them is more gentle than assassinating them. The tyranny of the Left is always an alternative to the tyranny of the Right ... but I object to tyranny, not superficial ideology. Jonb is pointing out ... the process trumps the ideology. If neither the Left nor the Right are tyrannical, then compromise is possible. Congress unexpectedly at times suddenly becomes bipartisan if not unanimous. When they do that, you know the public is really getting screwed ... because Congress is no longer just screwing around.
I don't trust anonymous
I don't like anonymous
I don't support anonymous
They're fracturing off and making their own little ideologies king just as the ones they claim to combat do. They're the exact same as the bad guys only they're supporting different things. Fuck them.
Quote from: GrinningYMIR on November 04, 2015, 09:15:59 AM
They're the exact same as the bad guys only they're supporting different things. Fuck them.
Yes, just as one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.
Quote from: jonb on November 04, 2015, 07:05:12 AM
No, you can't see it can you, even though you have read the refugee thread and seen the PR line 'they brought this on themselves' how many times?
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3507/3459314874_e413223af9.jpg)
There is a very large difference between explicitly threatening to kill someone as the KKK did and belonging to an ideology that has a fringe group of extremists.
When you threaten violence, EXPLICITLY threaten violence, you are asking for trouble. So yes, I don't see the similarity between that and people assuming you are violent because they are bigots with zero evidence or motivation to think that way.
There has been a question for a long time; at what stage of development is an animal capable of recognising itself in a mirror.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-nQDyoCMLL8Y/TrzbwLcdZaI/AAAAAAAAL3A/K09LJngEv7w/w506-h380/SpiderDance1JP.gif)
Quote from: jonb on November 04, 2015, 11:56:39 AM
There has been a question for a long time; at what stage of development is an animal capable of recognising itself in a mirror.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-nQDyoCMLL8Y/TrzbwLcdZaI/AAAAAAAAL3A/K09LJngEv7w/w506-h380/SpiderDance1JP.gif)
Right. Just keep repeating the same unrelated thing instead of addressing the issue that the KKK and Islam are fundamentally different beasts or that when you threaten, EXPLICITLY, that you will SHOOT AND KILL someone you are poking a hornets nest. You are comparing a recognized hate group and terrorist organization who's charter is based on racial superiority to an extremely diverse religion covering hundreds of different cultures... and I'm the one being goofy?
I'm sure that will make progress...
Yes, but not just goofy but blinkered, etc.
If rights do not extend to all people then they are just privileges.
You and PR say rights should not be extended to cover everyone therefore you are both on the same side.
Except where I said I don't agree with this act, public officials aside (which has nothing to do with their ideology but rather their positon of power.).
You are continuously attacking me for a position I don't hold. I said I disagreed with the action, and I hold to that. I did say it's hard to feel bad for a group that promotes hate and explicitly threatens to kill people ( the Muslim equivalent being not feeling bad for ISIS), but that no where says I think the act acceptable.
You are putting far too many words in my mouth when you say I don't think the rights shouldn't extend to everyone ( based on ideology like pr). I think the right to anonymous bigotry stops when you are a publicly elected official with power. There is a huge difference there.
For me the act of lynching is a wrong in itself. Even those at the back of the crowd who don't really agree with it but would shed no tears, and then when questioned try to justify it by saying the hung man was probably guilty, or more guilty than another are not part of any group I would feel comfortable standing with.
Quote from: jonb on November 04, 2015, 04:54:42 PM
Even those at the back of the crowd who don't really agree with it but would shed no tears, and then when questioned try to justify it by saying the hung man was probably guilty, or more guilty than another are not part of any group I would feel comfortable standing with.
Then I imagine you're referring to probably the bulk of humanity.
I've never been given to mob or bandwagon mentality and of course I believe lynching is wrong. But I'll also admit there are people in this world that I wouldn't feel as badly for if they were lynched. But you make the mistake of thinking that anyone who wouldn't feel badly would attempt to justify their inaction by blaming the victim.
I would justify my inaction based on logic. Standing up to a mob means sticking your neck out and being prepared to be vilified along with the person you're defending. I believe in justice, due process, and the value of life but I'm also a realist and I know what happens to people who openly assert unpopular opinions. And sorry, but there are people that I wouldn't risk sharing retaliation with, like David Duke, Fred Phelps, or Muammar Gaddafi.
Quote from: jonb on November 04, 2015, 04:54:42 PM
For me the act of lynching is a wrong in itself. Even those at the back of the crowd who don't really agree with it but would shed no tears, and then when questioned try to justify it by saying the hung man was probably guilty, or more guilty than another are not part of any group I would feel comfortable standing with.
Sorry if explicitly threatening to kill people is my cut off point for receiving respect offends you and makes you uncomfortable then. To me that is far more disturbing than me not crying.
Quote from: TomFoolery on November 04, 2015, 05:55:11 PM
Then I imagine you're referring to probably the bulk of humanity.
I've never been given to mob or bandwagon mentality and of course I believe lynching is wrong. But I'll also admit there are people in this world that I wouldn't feel as badly for if they were lynched. But you make the mistake of thinking that anyone who wouldn't feel badly would attempt to justify their inaction by blaming the victim.
I would justify my inaction based on logic. Standing up to a mob means sticking your neck out and being prepared to be vilified along with the person you're defending. I believe in justice, due process, and the value of life but I'm also a realist and I know what happens to people who openly assert unpopular opinions. And sorry, but there are people that I wouldn't risk sharing retaliation with, like David Duke, Fred Phelps, or Muammar Gaddafi.
Yes and I understand, but the problem is once you start running it is hard to stop.
It is purely selfish because I am more afraid of what standing back would do to me.
"It is purely selfish because I am more afraid of what standing back would do to me."
That is the dilemma of anyone who contemplated vigilante action. Government police and courts are instituted to prevent that dilemma. Similarly if one is contemplating a passivism (not pacifism) that prevents any action at all ... basically letting the government run things its own way. Dynamic citizenship is difficult at best ... and modern societies are not really set up for citizenship ... but for passivism. Such are the dilemmas of modern life. If you were living in Stone Age times ... if you need to off someone with a gesture or a club ... you gotta do it yourself.
Of course, being a modern person, i would not only be uncomfortable at a public execution, but a lynching would make me extremely uncomfortable. But then I am not a cave man. I have escaped the cave and beheld the Platonic forms ;-)
Quote from: Baruch on November 04, 2015, 08:03:12 PM
"It is purely selfish because I am more afraid of what standing back would do to me."
That is the dilemma of anyone who contemplated vigilante action. Government police and courts are instituted to prevent that dilemma. Similarly if one is contemplating a passivism (not pacifism) that prevents any action at all ... basically letting the government run things its own way. Dynamic citizenship is difficult at best ... and modern societies are not really set up for citizenship ... but for passivism. Such are the dilemmas of modern life. If you were living in Stone Age times ... if you need to off someone with a gesture or a club ... you gotta do it yourself.
Of course, being a modern person, i would not only be uncomfortable at a public execution, but a lynching would make me extremely uncomfortable. But then I am not a cave man. I have escaped the cave and beheld the Platonic forms ;-)
But for you to have signed up to that social contract are you my Alpha friend just expected to take soma or will it one day be the hemlock to keep things nice and orderly. Anyway are you sure you are out of the cave or have you just moved to one with new wall paintings.
Quote from: jonb on November 05, 2015, 06:21:58 AM
But for you to have signed up to that social contract are you my Alpha friend just expected to take soma or will it one day be the hemlock to keep things nice and orderly. Anyway are you sure you are out of the cave or have you just moved to one with new wall paintings.
F*ing brilliant! You aren't a Cockney taxi cab driver are you ... you are an Oxford don ;-) In modern parlance, the greatest deceit is the idea that the only choice is the red pill or the blue pill. My particular man cave has stone rubbings from Burma, that illustrate in Burmese style ... the Ramayana. Sri Lankan demons beware!
Ah, so what cultural valuables are you finding there, I am told they treat as sacred what you would dismiss elsewhere.
Burma? Well you can get a shave there ;-))
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/a0/e2/49/a0e2499495148a44372d2ae5af72eca9.gif)
Wasn't Anonymous supposed to publish details yesterday?
Quote from: PopeyesPappy on November 05, 2015, 02:13:55 PM
Wasn't Anonymous supposed to publish details yesterday?
Today. Sometime today. I may have mentioned the 5th a couple times in this thread so far.
Back from work, (surprised no one beat me to this, coulda sworn you guys were interested in this)
OPKK has officially posted a list of alleged KKK members. (http://www.engadget.com/2015/11/05/anonymous-kkk-names-posted/) Sadly, no US senators. The earlier leak was apparently not legit. Still awaiting substantiation of these allegations, of course.
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 06, 2015, 12:57:22 AM
Sadly, no US senators.
My knowledge of the KKK is almost nothing, but my impression from this side of the pond is, they are like most fanatical organisations, constituted from less educated people who have lost out in life, and not understanding why they are losers, find an easy answer and someone to blame for all their ills in the doctrines of these fanatical groups, and in being part of something they get to feel that they might in some-way be important.
Is this list going to be anything other than a list of people with chequered work histories mental illness and drug and alcohol abuse.
Jonb ... you get the psychology quite well. If by losers you mean anyone in the lower half of society. However these groups are ultimately led, like any political party ... by select individuals in the upper half of society. This is so that the have nots can be useful fools of the Machiavellians. The ultimate leadership is unlikely to be on the membership roles, nor do they wear bed sheets. Management.
In looking at the British extreme right, yes there are a few connections to the elite, but the for the average member of the 1% the British extreme right can offer them nothing useful so they do not bother to get their hands dirty. In different societies the connections can be stronger or weaker. In the Weimar Republic the 1% highly backed the extreme right as they were so afraid of the communists, but for the most part I have found those connections are weak to non-existent. However it suits a lot of parties to pretend those connections are there.
For the working class group it seems like they have more control if they can hold the pretence they have friends in high places. And for the 1% in general they need dissidents to think their reach is universal.
The smoke and mirrors of Sun Tzu might be a better guide here.
You easily see both sides of a coin. Actual elite connections will avoid the history books. Just like the real connection between Pamela Churchill Harriman and the Clinton family ;-) One finds more and more outrageous and scurrilous conspiracy theories every day ... some of which might be true. I loved the British TV show about the ambitious MP who became PM ... via murder. It was mentioned in the video on Machiavelli.
Quote from: jonb on November 06, 2015, 05:15:38 AMIs this list going to be anything other than a list of people with chequered work histories mental illness and drug and alcohol abuse.
Well, there's also the occasional violent offender. But yes, essentially extremely uneducated mostly blue collar people who still think act like it's 1830.
Quote from: Baruch on November 06, 2015, 11:22:39 AM
You easily see both sides of a coin. Actual elite connections will avoid the history books. Just like the real connection between Pamela Churchill Harriman and the Clinton family ;-) One finds more and more outrageous and scurrilous conspiracy theories every day ... some of which might be true. I loved the British TV show about the ambitious MP who became PM ... via murder. It was mentioned in the video on Machiavelli.
All fictions are based on a conceit.
The conceit of Marxism was that all struggle is class struggle.
The conceit of the conspiracy theorists is that the 1% are united.
The conceit of the 1% is that they are a meritocracy or Aristocracy (both words mean the same by the way).
But what fictions do you endorse? Neither you nor I are the omniscient Narrator ;-)
So don't try and make me into one.
Quote from: jonb on November 06, 2015, 01:11:54 PM
So don't try and make me into one.
Isn't it enough that you are the Great Jonb ... I don't think you are omniscient, just very clever ;-)
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/65/1a/de/651ade49e4349a1849f2c9807794bd12.jpg)
Ah yes, but if you walk side by side, nearest the street, then you catch the offal thrown from the second floor chamber pot.
And I thought you were a good Jewish boy who would love some chopped liver.
Watch the video and see how scared these poor braniacs are - while the likelihood of any of them or their children actually coming to harm as a result of exposure by Anonymous is unlikely, they expect from others what they would do unto them, and that is why they're so scared. Their fear is really better justice than anything which anybody could actually do to them!
(http://i68.tinypic.com/29eomg.jpg)
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 06, 2015, 12:57:22 AM
Back from work, (surprised no one beat me to this, coulda sworn you guys were interested in this)
OPKK has officially posted a list of alleged KKK members. (http://www.engadget.com/2015/11/05/anonymous-kkk-names-posted/) Sadly, no US senators. The earlier leak was apparently not legit. Still awaiting substantiation of these allegations, of course.
The last KKK member who was a senator died several years ago.