This may be more local news, I don't know if anyone outside of Rochester, NY cares about the Strong National Museum of Play. But they've decided to start a video game hall of fame this year. The fifteen nominees are Angry Birds, DOOM, FIFA, The Legend of Zelda, Minecraft, The Oregon Trail, Pac-Man, Pokemon, Pong, The Sims, Sonic the Hedgehog, Space Invaders, Super Mario Bros., Tetris, and World of Warcraft.
Be sure to argue over these choices below.
Source (http://www.worldvideogamehalloffame.org/2015-finalists)
The Strong® welcomed six games into the inaugural class of its World Video Game Hall of Fameâ,,¢.
DOOM
Pac-Man
Pong
Super Mario Bros.
Tetris
World of Warcraft
I've only played The Oregon Trail, Pac-Man, Sonic, and Tetris. Liked tetris the best, but didn't love any of them enough to want to replay them any time soon.
Thats like naming the sports into the hall instead of the players…you mean there is NOT a handful or great video game players that all you geeks know about and worship or kill as in some TV shows would have us believe?
Angry birds shouldn't be there, it's not as good a game as people think
Fuck angry birds
And where is HALO, should be in there i think...
Out of the nominees the one's iv played are, Doom, Pac Man, Sonic, Space Invaders......
The only one I've played is the Simms, and I thought it was lame.
Uhh..the granddaddy of all video games isn't there? They're off their pong nut..
I would think that it would make more sense to have categories and eras when selecting all-time games. Pong should be there first, since it was the granddaddy of them all. It was the real trailblazer. Maybe they could do something like the Pong award for the best of each era and category. It would be used something like this--Skyrim gets the Pong award for the best Open World game of the 2000/2010 era! And maybe even narrow it down to platforms, as well. I know that some games that work well on the PC don't work so well on Play Stations and the like. Damn it guys, if you're going to do it, do it right! :))
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on May 03, 2015, 10:24:30 AM
Uhh..the granddaddy of all video games isn't there? They're off their pong nut..
I forgot that I had also played pong and doom.
Quote from: Mike Cl on May 03, 2015, 10:36:52 AM
I would think that it would make more sense to have categories and eras when selecting all-time games. Pong should be there first, since it was the granddaddy of them all. It was the real trailblazer. Maybe they could do something like the Pong award for the best of each era and category. It would be used something like this--Skyrim gets the Pong award for the best Open World game of the 2000/2010 era! And maybe even narrow it down to platforms, as well. I know that some games that work well on the PC don't work so well on Play Stations and the like. Damn it guys, if you're going to do it, do it right! :))
This thread as the potential for becoming a real slug fest. I expect some serious flame wars, and maybe a black eye or two.
WHAT? No Mass Effect games and many others that blow everyone of those away. Solitary
For what it's worth, the criteria they use to select these nominations are:
• Iconic: The game is widely recognized and remembered.
• Longevity: The game is more than a passing fad.
• Geographical reach: The game meets the first two criteria across international boundaries.
• Influence: The game has influenced the design and development of other games, other forms of entertainment or popular culture and society.
Of these games, I find FIFA to be the one that sticks out. I guess they wanted more than one sports sim on the list and FIFA is more popular than Madden outside the US because fuck the US and their sissy "foot ball." Still, it seems like an odd choice even after you think about it.
I'm not sure about Oregon Trail, which only fits the criteria because of one sentence. "You have died of dysentery." For you kids who don't remember a computer lab full of Apple II's adjacent to the library in middle school, Oregon Trail was a supposedly educational game they let us play in school. There were dozens of them, but this one had legs once kids looked up "dysentery" in the dictionary and realized this was a game where you can shit yourself to death. I find that legacy a bit dubious.
I don't know about Sonic the Hedgehog. Sure, it's a well-known character, but so is Ronald McDonald. That's no reason to nominate it as an all-time best.
Quotehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYDsz1NFBJw
Pokemon... Well, I guess it fits the criteria. There were knock offs and kids everywhere were annoying about it. if I were born about ten years later, I would have been the most annoying it. But I wasn't so I know what Pokemon is.
It's Nintendo selling their unused characters.
Think about it. They had artists working all day on coming up with new things for Mario to stomp on and not all of them made the cut. So they had file cabinets full of character designs they weren't using until someone got the bright idea for using
all of them. This is why Pokemon "evolve." In the design phase, they do multiple revisions of a design, changing little details. That's why not all Pokemon evolve. No revisions. And those that do evolve don't have the same number of steps. Not as many revisions for some and others. It's also why the evolved version is often not obviously bigger and better, just different. And then there's shit like Charmander where unrelated drawings are linked together by some minor detail, like a flame on the tail.
(http://www.sora.net.au/uploads/4/9/8/8/4988236/6738424.jpg)
Yeah right, that first and last one are the same creature.
So Pokemon is a brilliant marketing campaign. But is it even a decent game? I don't know. I've never played it. I guess if games that may or may not be decent games so long as they meet the criteria for other reasons, fine.
Beyond that, I can't really argue with most of these choices. I mean, you could say Ms. Pac-Man and Galaga are more deserving than Pac-Man and Space Invaders, but those were follow-ups that built on the original.
I don't think breaking up by era or category was what they wanted. This is the museum that has a toy hall of fame which has inducted things as diverse as Game Boy, alphabet blocks, Slinky, Lego and a fucking cardboard box. I am not shitting you. (http://www.toyhalloffame.org/toys/cardboard-box)
So, using this criteria, they have a list of inductees that includes games as diverse as Pong, Angry Birds and DOOM. I think that's a nice level playing field. If you want an all-time best list by platform, just google it. There are like a billion of such lists.
Quote from: the_antithesis on May 03, 2015, 12:28:20 PM
I don't think breaking up by era or category was what they wanted. This is the museum that has a toy hall of fame which has inducted things as diverse as Game Boy, alphabet blocks, Slinky, Lego and a fucking cardboard box. I am not shitting you. (http://www.toyhalloffame.org/toys/cardboard-box)
I fucking hate cardboard boxes.
For those 4 criteria, Tetris is probably one of the best. Iconic? Check. Longevity? Check. Geographical reach? As international as they come. Influence? Pretty much its own genre.
QuoteI'm not sure about Oregon Trail, which only fits the criteria because of one sentence. "You have died of dysentery." For you kids who don't remember a computer lab full of Apple II's adjacent to the library in middle school, Oregon Trail was a supposedly educational game they let us play in school. There were dozens of them, but this one had legs once kids looked up "dysentery" in the dictionary and realized this was a game where you can shit yourself to death. I find that legacy a bit dubious.
Oregon Trail was one of my favorites. It's actually a sort of survival game. You manage an expedition and their ever-dwindling supplies and have to make choices that affect them, like ration sizes, travel pace, deciding between routes, bartering supplies, and the famous fording the river dilemma. You get hit with setbacks and have to make hard choices sometimes, like reducing rations or butchering an ox for food. It's not the most amazing game ever (small team and basically no budget, the main problem of edutainment games), but it was immensely popular and for good reason.
Quote from: the_antithesis on May 02, 2015, 01:44:09 PM
The fifteen nominees are Angry Birds, DOOM, FIFA, The Legend of Zelda, Minecraft, The Oregon Trail, Pac-Man, Pokemon, Pong, The Sims, Sonic the Hedgehog, Space Invaders, Super Mario Bros., Tetris, and World of Warcraft.
Ah, a nice even mix of "yes, that's an obvious choice" and "WTF got slipped into their Mountain Dew?". DOOM, FIFA, Zelda, Oregon Trail, Pac-Man, Pong, Space Invaders, Super Mario Bros., Tetris and WoW all make sense, even the ones of those I hate. Maybe Minecraft, Sonic and The Sims too.
Pokemon? Really? That's a marketing venture far more than it is a game. And Angry Birds is too new to say if it's going to be more than the flavor of the moment.
Where's Bejeweled? That's the game that really kind of invented casual browser games as we know them now.
And where's The 7th Guest? That's the game that made the CD-ROM a required piece of hardware rather than an option, as well as introducing motion capture to gaming -- very few games can say they've changed hardware requirements like T7G can.
I'm just going to leave this thread before I rage over people talking shit about pokemon.
They're all just envious of those that did catch them all.
Quote from: the_antithesis on May 03, 2015, 12:28:20 PM
I don't think breaking up by era or category was what they wanted. This is the museum that has a toy hall of fame which has inducted things as diverse as Game Boy, alphabet blocks, Slinky, Lego and a fucking cardboard box. I am not shitting you. (http://www.toyhalloffame.org/toys/cardboard-box)
I don't have a problem with the cardboard box as a toy -- the larger ones after xmas always got saved. You could build a two room (albeit flimsy) fort out of a refrigerator box. We'd take them to the park at the end of the street (this is Way Back When, when kids were actually allowed to go out and not have a parent/guardian one meter away at all times) and go 'sledding' on the hill in the summer. It was a race car, an Apollo capsule, a Sopwith Camel (I always was a big Snoopy fan), a transmogrifier.
I mean, seriously, have you never read Calvin & Hobbes?
Quote from: trdsf on May 03, 2015, 08:19:13 PM
I don't have a problem with the cardboard box as a toy -- the larger ones after xmas always got saved. You could build a two room (albeit flimsy) fort out of a refrigerator box. We'd take them to the park at the end of the street (this is Way Back When, when kids were actually allowed to go out and not have a parent/guardian one meter away at all times) and go 'sledding' on the hill in the summer. It was a race car, an Apollo capsule, a Sopwith Camel (I always was a big Snoopy fan), a transmogrifier.
I mean, seriously, have you never read Calvin & Hobbes?
Can I relate! A refrigerator cardboard crate was a treasure! Sledding down the hill was the bomb! Any large cardboard box was used and reused until there was nothing left. I hadn't thought of that for years.
Where I grew up, the parents of kids I played with managed a huge apartment complex. They would periodically purchase 5 or 6 refrigerators, or stoves, or whatever. Those kids came up with some creative ways to put 5 refrigerator boxes together to create some complex play houses. Cats and dogs also seem to like cardboard boxes. There is something about them that has universal appeal to many different life forms.
Quote from: SGOS on May 03, 2015, 10:07:44 PM
Where I grew up, the parents of kids I played with managed a huge apartment complex. They would periodically purchase 5 or 6 refrigerators, or stoves, or whatever. Those kids came up with some creative ways to put 5 refrigerator boxes together to create some complex play houses. Cats and dogs also seem to like cardboard boxes. There is something about them that has universal appeal to many different life forms.
It's a toy that operates on pure imagination, that's what the real appeal is. A cardboard box is what you need it to be when you need it to be it, and it doesn't need to be assembled, plugged in, updated, downloaded, firewalled, or tested by Parent Magazine and approved by a morning chat show host.
As far as my cats were concerned, they were also far superior to the really nice scratching post and scratching pads I'd bought them, too... regardless of whether or not the box was already in use by the human for a more mundane purpose, like holding things. :P
Quote from: trdsf on May 03, 2015, 05:59:56 PMAnd where's The 7th Guest? That's the game that made the CD-ROM a required piece of hardware rather than an option, as well as introducing motion capture to gaming -- very few games can say they've changed hardware requirements like T7G can.
I really liked that one, too. But lots of games can boast some sort of technological breakthrough (first 16-bit game, 64-bit game, first online game, etc). Doesn't necessarily make the game a classic or even good.
Quote from: the_antithesis on May 03, 2015, 12:28:20 PM
For what it's worth, the criteria they use to select these nominations are:
• Iconic: The game is widely recognized and remembered.
• Longevity: The game is more than a passing fad.
• Geographical reach: The game meets the first two criteria across international boundaries.
• Influence: The game has influenced the design and development of other games, other forms of entertainment or popular culture and society.
Of these games, I find FIFA to be the one that sticks out. I guess they wanted more than one sports sim on the list and FIFA is more popular than Madden outside the US because fuck the US and their sissy "foot ball." Still, it seems like an odd choice even after you think about it.
I'm not sure about Oregon Trail, which only fits the criteria because of one sentence. "You have died of dysentery." For you kids who don't remember a computer lab full of Apple II's adjacent to the library in middle school, Oregon Trail was a supposedly educational game they let us play in school. There were dozens of them, but this one had legs once kids looked up "dysentery" in the dictionary and realized this was a game where you can shit yourself to death. I find that legacy a bit dubious.
I don't know about Sonic the Hedgehog. Sure, it's a well-known character, but so is Ronald McDonald. That's no reason to nominate it as an all-time best.
Pokemon... Well, I guess it fits the criteria. There were knock offs and kids everywhere were annoying about it. if I were born about ten years later, I would have been the most annoying it. But I wasn't so I know what Pokemon is.
It's Nintendo selling their unused characters.
Think about it. They had artists working all day on coming up with new things for Mario to stomp on and not all of them made the cut. So they had file cabinets full of character designs they weren't using until someone got the bright idea for using all of them. This is why Pokemon "evolve." In the design phase, they do multiple revisions of a design, changing little details. That's why not all Pokemon evolve. No revisions. And those that do evolve don't have the same number of steps. Not as many revisions for some and others. It's also why the evolved version is often not obviously bigger and better, just different. And then there's shit like Charmander where unrelated drawings are linked together by some minor detail, like a flame on the tail.
http://atheistforums.com/Themes/default/images/bbc/quote.gif
(http://www.sora.net.au/uploads/4/9/8/8/4988236/6738424.jpg)
Yeah right, that first and last one are the same creature.
So Pokemon is a brilliant marketing campaign. But is it even a decent game? I don't know. I've never played it. I guess if games that may or may not be decent games so long as they meet the criteria for other reasons, fine.
Marketing venture? You mean like every product/game ever made?
Pokemon was created by Satoshi Tajiri (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satoshi_Tajiri) a man inspired by his childhood hobby of collecting bugs.
The evolutions have nothing to do with using nintendo's discarded/recycled designs. I don't know how you came up with that, especially since the only nintendo game outside of Pokemon that a pokemon will show up in is Super Smash Bros, a game that gives tribute to already existing Nintendo characters.
I completely agree with Pokemon being on the list. It definitely deserves it. When pokemon came out in '95, it was HUGE... and 20 years later it is still huge... almost as much as when it was first released. This is coming from someone that doesn't even play it anymore. It would be incredibly difficult to think of someone today that doesn't know what Pokemon is, or if they at least heard of it. It's iconic and very much deserves that spot just like all the other games on there (with the exception of angry birds)
Quote from: PickelledEggs on May 03, 2015, 11:24:28 PM
Marketing venture? You mean like every product/game ever made?
Not necessarily. Until not that long ago, it used to be that someone would come up with a product and then market the thing they made. Now they come up with a marketing campaign and then see if they can find or quickly invent something to fit. Pokemon is in the later category.
QuotePokemon was created by Satoshi Tajiri (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satoshi_Tajiri) a man inspired by his childhood hobby of collecting bugs.
The evolutions have nothing to do with using nintendo's discarded/recycled designs.
Yes they do. That Satoshi-san came up with the basic game concept does not discredit my hypothesis of where they got all those weird creature designs. And I had already explained why that makes the most sense, so I won't bother repeating myself when scroll buttons exist.
I will say, I am a bit surprised at the amount of passion involved. My generation has a loathing for Pokemon because we loathe little kids and it was something little kids wouldn't shut up about. I was unaware that those little kids would retain their love for it after they grew up.
I mean, look at me. I used to love Transformers, when they call G1 these days. I recently watched some of those episodes are they were so fucking terrible that I wondered how much lead was in the drinking water when I was younger.
Of course, not everybody my age hates their childhood the way I do. Someone is buying those G1 DVD sets, because it's not me and I doubt it's you. (They're sooooooo bad.)
That said, wasn't the card game bigger for Pokemon? I ask because I don't know. They do still make both the video games and the cards. So what do I know?
Quote from: the_antithesis on May 04, 2015, 01:55:36 PM
Not necessarily. Until not that long ago, it used to be that someone would come up with a product and then market the thing they made. Now they come up with a marketing campaign and then see if they can find or quickly invent something to fit. Pokemon is in the later category.
Yes they do. That Satoshi-san came up with the basic game concept does not discredit my hypothesis of where they got all those weird creature designs. And I had already explained why that makes the most sense, so I won't bother repeating myself when scroll buttons exist.
I will say, I am a bit surprised at the amount of passion involved. My generation has a loathing for Pokemon because we loathe little kids and it was something little kids wouldn't shut up about. I was unaware that those little kids would retain their love for it after they grew up.
I mean, look at me. I used to love Transformers, when they call G1 these days. I recently watched some of those episodes are they were so fucking terrible that I wondered how much lead was in the drinking water when I was younger.
Of course, not everybody my age hates their childhood the way I do. Someone is buying those G1 DVD sets, because it's not me and I doubt it's you. (They're sooooooo bad.)
That said, wasn't the card game bigger for Pokemon? I ask because I don't know. They do still make both the video games and the cards. So what do I know?
Your generation loathes pokemon? What are you even talking about? There are tons of people of all age brackets that play pokemon, even now. I would even go so far as to take back the "almost as huge as when it first came out" and say it is probably more huge now because out of the people that played it when it first came out, most of them still do and it gains new people, both young and old every year. It fits all of the criteria you highlighted for the hall of fame in one of your previous posts in this thread, whether you or I play it and like it or not.
You're statement is very narrowminded, but then again, you are also one of the grumpiest and negative people I have ever talked with... inside or outside of the forum. Sometimes you're on point, but sometimes you're not. In this case, you're not.
Quote from: the_antithesis on May 04, 2015, 03:29:46 PM
No. My generation loathes your generation. I must not have been very clear about that.
You're still incorrect no matter how you want to slice it. Maybe you hate our generation, and maybe you have a lot of similar people around you from your generation that hates our generation... but your generation as a whole, and in general... does not hate our generation.
Interesting. Where did that post go?
Quote from: PickelledEggs on May 04, 2015, 03:46:19 PM
Interesting. Where did that post go?
I deleted it because I had decided this had already gotten too personal and there was no reason to continue.
The Strong® welcomed six games into the inaugural class of its World Video Game Hall of Fameâ,,¢.
DOOM
Pac-Man
Pong
Super Mario Bros.
Tetris
World of Warcraft
Source (http://www.worldvideogamehalloffame.org/games)
My vote would go to Tetris. It inspired a whole stream of like-minded wide-appeal arcade-puzzlers that remains relevant with today's popularity of Candy Crush saga.
Other nominees fall short by comparison due to:
-narrower appeal (there are more FPS fans who also play casual arcade puzzlers, than the other way around)
-having the shoulders of other games to stand on, rather than being the shoulders other games stand on (Wolvenstein 3D-> Doom, Final Fantasy-> Pokemon, Donkey Kong -> Super Mario etc.)
-being creative dead-ends that are no longer or barely alive in today's gaming consiousness (who's making pac-man like maze chasers these days? And Arkanoid was Pong's glorious deathrattle.)
The only title I see sadly missing from the list is ELITE: the granddaddy of all large open-world 3D games
On a sidenote: this computer games HOF is bound to suffer from the same flaws as the Rock N Roll hall of fame
This is the true granddaddy of video games.
(http://retrogt.com/img/blogImages/general/Dizzy.gif)(http://lparchive.org/Dizzy/Update%201/4-dizzyjumpingsides.gif)