So, I just bought the new novels for the new Star Wars canon. I have read almost all the old canon, now called Star Wars Legends. (all the books written up to the year 2000 anyway)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Star_Wars_books
I wonder if it's a mistake to learn the changes to the storyline before I see the new movie. Will they leak so much that it won't be as fun to watch? I think I'll risk it. I'll leave a kind word about this site in my will.
AFAIK, the new movie isn't going to match (http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/04/25/lucasfilm-clarifies-star-wars-expanded-universe) the Expanded Universe stuff. But it might rhyme...
*waits patiently for someone to get the reference*
Its true. The EU is no longer canon at all, but I can offer a bit of solace. Darth Bane is mentioned on the Clone Wars, so he's still canon. That's assuming you don't hate the Bane trilogy.
Quote from: Hydra009 on April 25, 2015, 02:23:02 AM
But it might rhyme...
(http://memecrunch.com/meme/1K9ED/boo-hiss/image.jpg)
Well, I hope the new movies explore the whole "balance" thing. It is my favorite plotline of the EU!
Quote from: _Xenu_ on April 25, 2015, 07:12:33 AM
Its true. The EU is no longer canon at all, but I can offer a bit of solace. Darth Bane is mentioned on the Clone Wars, so he's still canon. That's assuming you don't hate the Bane trilogy.
I just bought the Darth Bane trilogy just in case. I think I'll have some happy reading.
I want the movies to cover the Rogue Squadron story arch. The plot is epic and Wedge is an awesome character in the EU.
Had no problem with the EU as a fun kind of fanfic, but I never considered it canon.
Quote from: Atheon on April 28, 2015, 10:04:23 AM
Had no problem with the EU as a fun kind of fanfic, but I never considered it canon.
I didn't really like the New Jedi Order series. But, most of the other stuff was really good.
The first frame of film that showed an Ewok ended Star Wars for me. Haven't been a fan since. But it was two and a half really fun movies up until then.
Quote from: trdsf on May 03, 2015, 04:09:24 PM
The first frame of film that showed an Ewok ended Star Wars for me. Haven't been a fan since. But it was two and a half really fun movies up until then.
After I saw the Ewoks, I wrote some fanfiction.
Short version: The Imperials come back to Endor and start to rape and kill all the ewoks. They also make the ewoks fight each other to the death and barbecue the losers. Then, Lando comes in and freezes 500 of them in carbonite in an underground bunker so that they could survive the Imperial genocide. He set a timer to wake all the ewoks in 100 years. While Lando is leaving Endor, he says "this deal is getting worse all the time." He then clicks a few buttons on his Casio wristwatch to send the coordinates of the underground bunker to the Imperial Fleet. The bunker is bombed from orbit and Lando becomes an Admiral of the Imperial Navy.
I think I'd get kicked off this forum if I tell you all what I wrote about the Gungans...
Gungans and Jar Jar Binks are the worst creations in the Star Wars universe, imo. Never liked them.
Quote from: stromboli on May 03, 2015, 07:45:33 PM
Gungans and Jar Jar Binks are the worst creations in the Star Wars universe, imo. Never liked them.
Then you're really going to hate the new movie.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFu_dxwU-sk
Binks flying the TIE fighter was awesome.
Quote from: trdsf on May 03, 2015, 04:09:24 PM
The first frame of film that showed an Ewok ended Star Wars for me. Haven't been a fan since. But it was two and a half really fun movies up until then.
My happy place is basically 2 and a half hours of the imperials slaughtering ewoks while the ewoks ineffectually hurl stones or spears at them. The ewoks then ineffectually rout after about 30 minutes, coinciding with the rebels' retreat.
You know that scene where two swinging logs totally pancake an AT-ST's cockpit? Yeah, it bounces off the armor and maybe scratches the paint.
Or the part where rolling logs cause an AT-ST to pratfall? Nope. Its foot more or less flattens the logs, or at least knocks them aside.
And the lassoed speeder simply breaks the rope instead of looping around a tree several times before crashing into it. Because, you know, physics.
The ewok stone catapult teams are indeed blown up by more irritated than harmed AT-STs, just like in the movie.
The ewok flier is actually immolated by a lucky AT-ST blast instead of crash landing from a clumsy storm trooper blaster pistol shot. And immense ranks of stormtroopers pick off ewoks at leisure, especially the group of ewoks stupid enough to attack them with bolas, which do negligible damage to storm trooper armor.
At dusk, the sole surviving ewok - blood splattered and grimy - sprints through underbrush and tries to conceal himself behind a tree. He tries his best to stay silent as stormtrooper footfalls grow louder and louder. From the other direction, an AT-ST lurches into view and points its guns forward, though its target is unclear. The ewok braces for the shot, but it doesn't come. Why hasn't it fired? This is must be the commandeered walker! The top hatch is flung open. Its pilot pokes his head into the night air. An imperial! Quickly, he confers with his copilot. The AT-ST shot splinters the tree and the last ewok is no more.
I don't remember so much depth and substance to the original Star Wars. I remember Chewy communicating through various modes of bellowing. There was a cool bar scene, and some people slid down a trash chute and were attacked by a giant octopus thingy. I remember first noticing an actor, Harrison Ford, who seemed like the only real person in the movie. And the bad guys wore white armor. White armor! What's up with that? I went to the second movie, but didn't get much out of it, and never followed the rest.
But more insightful minds than mine saw possibilities galore. A friend of mine encouraged his son to buy Star Wars toys, land speeders, and space ships. He would buy two of each, one to play with and the other to remained sealed in the original box. He told me they were worth a lot of money, and that was 20 years ago. I was impressed. I never understood collectables, and have suffered missing of the associated financial windfalls. Oh, I had baseball trading cards. They used to come with bubble gum, 5 cards to a pack. But they would get dog eared, and I would throw them away. For years, I had huge piles of comic books, but my parents never let me buy Superman, only Little Lulu and Donald Duck, and I've been told the ones I bought were never valuable.
The basement of my parents house was filled with junk, old worn hand tools and things that later started showing up in antique stores. At the time, they just seemed like junk that my grandfather was too cheap to throw out.
Now, I have seen 'Revenge of the Sith'... sort of. I have actually never seen it normally; I have however seen the Backstroke of the West (http://winterson.com/2009/01/episode-iii-backstroke-of-west-redux.html) version. Which apparently was bootlegged in China, translated into Chinese, then had English (Engrish?) subtitles re-dubbed back in... but apparently via machine translation. Which leads to the line "They're all over me!" being dubbed... er, well, as below:
(http://www.winterson.com/pics2/botw08.jpg)
I found the subs far more entertaining than the movie. :)
Quote from: SGOS on May 04, 2015, 06:24:35 AM
I don't remember so much depth and substance to the original Star Wars. I remember Chewy communicating through various modes of bellowing. There was a cool bar scene, and some people slid down a trash chute and were attacked by a giant octopus thingy. I remember first noticing an actor, Harrison Ford, who seemed like the only real person in the movie. And the bad guys wore white armor. White armor! What's up with that? I went to the second movie, but didn't get much out of it, and never followed the rest.
None of them are what I'd call high art, but they were a great deal of fun. Lucas had just recently finished reading Campbell's
The Hero With a Thousand Faces and deliberately leaned on all the tropes therein. The advantage that the first movie had over the other two (and while I still like it best) is because Lucas had no idea at the time that he was creating anything that would be successful, so he just threw himself into it. After that, though, it became a high-dollar franchise to be protected, and while production values became slicker and the scripting became tighter, it lost a lot of the sense of fun that pervaded the first movie.
As a side note, these are not science fiction stories. They're very much a Cambpellian monomyth that happens to be set in a science-fictional setting, but there's really no part of the story that
requires that setting.
Meanwhile, as a lover of good parody, this: the Star Wars trilogy radio play... read by: Billy West, Tara Strong, Maurice LaMarche, John DiMaggio, Kevin Conroy, Jess Harnell and Rob Paulsen (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBzRmWeC6Ds).
Quote from: trdsf on May 04, 2015, 07:28:21 AM
The advantage that the first movie had over the other two (and while I still like it best) is because Lucas had no idea at the time that he was creating anything that would be successful, so he just threw himself into it.
I remember an interview with a couple of cast members many years ago, although I can't remember which cast members they were. They said they had no idea the movie would turn out to be so huge. No idea at all. They said they were just putting together a bunch of stuff without any clue where it would end up. And indeed, sometimes movies just flop, so I believed them in the interview.
Quote from: SGOS on May 04, 2015, 06:24:35 AM
I don't remember so much depth and substance to the original Star Wars.
There's not. It's basically a monomyth story with a scifi backdrop. But it excelled in basically every way that movie can. Good characters. Decent plot. Amazing visuals. Fantastic music. And a very bizarre but interesting setting.
QuoteI remember Chewy communicating through various modes of bellowing.
I actually really liked the fact that most aliens do not speak english and often the audience doesn't even get subtitles, showing that the characters can't even understand what they're saying. If Chewie or Jabba spoke english, their scenes would've been the lesser for it, imho.
QuoteI remember first noticing an actor, Harrison Ford, who seemed like the only real person in the movie.
He's the only one who reacts to events as the audience would, that's for sure.
QuoteAnd the bad guys wore white armor. White armor! What's up with that?
(http://t.imgbox.com/adjErDvZ.jpg)
It does make a strange sort of sense. They're peacekeepers. They're not trying to blend in, they're trying to stand out. And compared to the locals, they usually do. The locals usually wore tan or black clothes. In fact, I can't recall anyone wearing much white except for the stormtroopers.
Now, in the actual battles, camo is important. For Hoth, the white comes in handy as camouflage. Endor, not so much.
QuoteI went to the second movie, but didn't get much out of it, and never followed the rest.
I liked the second one the most. :(
I never knew anybody who hated lil ewoks....wow...saddened I am by this.
Ewoks represent a couple problems for the Star Wars universe to me.
First off, in my mind, they mark the line between the series being a story to be told, and a franchise to be protected, marketed and heavily exploited -- not saying everyone else doesn't do that, just to be clear, but they looked to me like the character design was not meant to have plot significance, but rather to hit the shelves in their plush millions the day the movie opened, if not sooner.
Second, does no one else find their bloodthirstiness a little disturbing, especially embodied in something explicitly designed to be cute and cuddly?
Third, it made no sense. The original plan for the movie would have seen essentially the same action on Chewbacca's homeworld, which structurally would have fit better. It was a character and a character type the audience was already familiar with, and already represented as a sort of warrior race (or at least as being very tough with a comparable reputation). It was already structurally built in to the narrative, and Lucas peed it down his leg.
Instead, midget furballs who came out of nowhere miraculously are able to take down the Empire's best (who were never good shots to begin with anyway). It's like it was written by J.K. Rowling -- revealing the deus ex machina in such an obvious way that you already know how it has to end, once they went down that path, and the only variables are what happen on the way there.
Quote from: trdsf on May 04, 2015, 06:45:25 PM
Third, it made no sense. The original plan for the movie would have seen essentially the same action on Chewbacca's homeworld, which structurally would have fit better. It was a character and a character type the audience was already familiar with, and already represented as a sort of warrior race (or at least as being very tough with a comparable reputation). It was already structurally built in to the narrative, and Lucas peed it down his leg.
Yes. Kashyyyk would have made so much more sense than Endor. The wookies would have been used by the Empire as cheap builders (slaves). Since Chewbacca was technically proficient in his own way, the use of wookies to build the Death Star would have seemed logical.
In retrospect you can tear it apart, but it never was high art to me. I grew up on the Lone Ranger and Gene Autry oaters, so to me as a sci fi fan it was closer to old west gunslinging than anything. Up until the second series with the back stories about where Darth Vader came from and so forth, I think Lucas was just basically telling an old west style story. I think the original threesome should have been left alone, but whatever. Money is money, and Lucas obviously knew he had a cash cow after Star Wars hit big.
Quote from: trdsf on May 04, 2015, 06:45:25 PMThird, it made no sense. The original plan for the movie would have seen essentially the same action on Chewbacca's homeworld, which structurally would have fit better. It was a character and a character type the audience was already familiar with, and already represented as a sort of warrior race (or at least as being very tough with a comparable reputation). It was already structurally built in to the narrative, and Lucas peed it down his leg.
Instead, midget furballs who came out of nowhere miraculously are able to take down the Empire's best (who were never good shots to begin with anyway).
This. So much this.
And I'd add that the stormtroopers were disappointingly inept. And it's really bad for your story to have inept villains. You want villains that are a credible threat to the heroes, and these guys just aren't it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raF9wfPxir8
Anyone feel like our heroes were in danger in that scene?
Obviously, they can't just gun down Luke and co, but can't they give our protagonists a run for their money? I mean, they're built up as this formidable military (there's even a line from Obi Wan talking about their precision) and they fight like complete pushovers for most of the films. The ewok thing was just the ultimate humiliation.
If they fought more like they did on Hoth, the rebel victory would've been that much sweeter.
Quote from: stromboli on May 04, 2015, 09:11:01 PM
In retrospect you can tear it apart, but it never was high art to me. I grew up on the Lone Ranger and Gene Autry oaters, so to me as a sci fi fan it was closer to old west gunslinging than anything. Up until the second series with the back stories about where Darth Vader came from and so forth, I think Lucas was just basically telling an old west style story. I think the original threesome should have been left alone, but whatever. Money is money, and Lucas obviously knew he had a cash cow after Star Wars hit big.
No, it never was high art -- you're not going to confuse any of the Star Wars movies for
Citizen Kane, or
Battleship Potemkin, or even
2001: A Space Odyssey. It was a rollercoaster ride, and it was a great one.
And that's fine, I love a good rollercoaster ride of a movie. I just wish Lucas had remembered that's what he made. And if there's one thing I wish he'd learn, it's to leave things the fuck alone, or at least quit trying to play Winston Smith at the Ministry of Truth and pretend that the old versions don't exist.
Quote from: trdsf on May 05, 2015, 04:56:48 AM
I just wish Lucas had remembered that's what he made. And if there's one thing I wish he'd learn, it's to leave things the fuck alone, or at least quit trying to play Winston Smith at the Ministry of Truth and pretend that the old versions don't exist.
Right. Looking at what came after, I have the opinion that he realized he'd walked into a gold mine and did whatever he could to mine more gold. Any time they scream sequel I'm pretty sure that is the main motivation.
You mentioned some of my favorite movies, esp. Battleship Potemkin. Maybe we should do a favorite movies thread.
Quote from: stromboli on May 05, 2015, 07:25:26 PM
You mentioned some of my favorite movies, esp. Battleship Potemkin. Maybe we should do a favorite movies thread.
Done (http://atheistforums.com/index.php?topic=7664.0).
I'm really interested. I haven't read EU though but the Star Wars series always entertains me
I'm reading the Darth Bane series now. It's turning out to be one of the best Star Wars yet. It's up there with the X-wing and the Grand Admiral Thrawn series.
This guy would be awesome in the new movies:
(http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/scale_small/11/118253/1693693-thrawnportrait.png)
(Grand Admiral Thrawn)
Quote from: kilodelta on July 10, 2015, 11:47:33 PM
Less CGI = awesome
How's the Bane trilogy coming along?
You guys get this involved in this series, wow. Hopefully you got just as engaged in the 5 or 12 Harry Potter books, hell that'l keep you going for a year.
Quote from: kilodelta on July 10, 2015, 11:47:33 PM
Less CGI = awesome
Must... avoid... the hype train... must... avoid...
OH GOD DAMN IT, IT LOOKS AMAZING.
After having nearly every ounce for Star Wars clubbed out of me like baby seal brains, I am genuinely surprised when others still find interest in the franchise.
Quote from: _Xenu_ on July 11, 2015, 03:25:45 AM
How's the Bane trilogy coming along?
It was awesome... it left open an interesting possibility right there at the end. [spoiler]Could Darth Sidious actually be Darth Bane?[/spoiler]
I've moved on to other Legacy novels. They're not as good.
Quote from: the_antithesis on July 11, 2015, 11:58:15 AM
After having nearly every ounce for Star Wars clubbed out of me like baby seal brains, I am genuinely surprised when others still find interest in the franchise.
It's called compartmentalization. I've never even heard of episodes 1-3. There's never been a Star Wars special. Ewoks will never return. R2-D2 can't fly... etc.
Quote from: Shiranu on July 11, 2015, 11:37:24 AM
Must... avoid... the hype train... must... avoid...
OH GOD DAMN IT, IT LOOKS AMAZING.
Those were my thoughts as well... too much hype can ruin a good movie.