I've always been the kind of person who admires and strives to work.
I am a person who is hard working and wants the best for the future. Since there is only uncertainty now, and hedonists seldom care for the environment they leave behind; I feel the moral need to continue to work.
I don't know much, maybe I'm just pushing myself too hard? What do you think? And do answer the question above.
PickledEggs, no Satire please?
I am similar to you in the need to drive myself to do and create. I build boats as a hobby, and am currently working on a folding boat that will weigh less than a dozen pounds and collapse down small enough to carry on a back pack. Meaning is derived from doing. Creating, building and making your world better is what separates us from mere animals. I have known too many people who have simply decided to exist, with no goals or real meaning to their lives. That attitude might offend some people on the forum, but I decided a long time ago that being proactive and working towards goals just makes more sense and is more meaningful than the reverse.
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Getting down a turn of phrase that conveys exactly what I had in mind, in the ongoing hope of getting myself published some day. Or getting a photo that captures what I was trying to capture -- more than just the image, but the feelings that inspired me to try to capture it.
Showing up to work, not so much -- but bringing a sense of safety (or at least a bit of relaxation) to the family we're trying to help, yeah, lots. I don't do social work myself, I'm administration... but since I'm the weekend receptionist, I'm also the first face they see (other than the deputy assigned to our building), so that's something I can at least do for them.
The real me: Learning, experiencing, contributing.
My raging fundy alter ego: Bowing teh KNEE and wershiping JEBUS and hatin on them there HOMMASEXUALS and MOOSLIMS!
Adventures. My job was just kind of a matrix where I passed my time between adventures.
Enjoying the world as best I can. Even a desert is more beautiful than any city.
10% to GWWC, that goes to fund long-lasting mosquito nets.
I used to follow the cosmic imperative to further support my species, but then it was to find a lover, now it is to just survive. :kidra: Solitary
Just the mere fact I'm alive with the knowledge that I'll someday die gives life meaning, but short of that there really is no meaning. When I die it won't make a hill of beans to the rest of the world that I ever existed in the first place and further, I don't really care what the rest of the world thinks.
You are inflicted with the JJ complex! :biggrin2: Solitary
I guess a lot of things in synergy. A balance of family, friends and solitude. Classic rock music. Creative pursuits like model-building, drawing, and writing poetry. An occasional good meal. This forum sometimes.
Quote from: Solitary on March 14, 2015, 04:10:19 PM
You are inflicted with the JJ complex! :biggrin2: Solitary
It's a satanic thing. I'm possessed by the devil undoubtedly.
JJ was a wiccan and put a spell on me, the bitch! Just kidding, I think? :shifty: :shifty: :liar: Solitary
Trying new things. theres always something new and interesting around each corner, be in new foods I've not tried before, new recipes, new places to see, new ideas to explore, to stuff to acquire.
My parents had 6 kids when they could barely afford 2. We ate bologna for breakfast lunch and very cheap roast beef and potatoes for dinner practically 5 days a weeks. I was raised to work hard in order to enjoy bologna. My father was not a stupid man, but not an educated man, he often told me, "you climb the ladder simply by outworking the guy next to you." No one has ever outworked me. Add to that that no one has ever been more determined to be at work on time and always there, wherever and whenever i said I would be. If I said I will be there, I will be there, like the fucking sun.
Today, I make pretty damn good bucks, I haven't seen bologna in 30 years and have no desire to, but rest assured if I had too, I would have no qualms about having to do it all again and I would still out work the lazy shits today.
What gives my life meaning? Enjoying every second I can, understanding that hundreds, thousands, even millions of poor bastards will never ever ever have half of what I have fought for, and realizing that every one of them could if they had the chance, yet they never will and nothing I can do will change that. Realizing that billions have died in vain, billions have simply died and billions more along with I will die as well and fade into the past, evaporating into the vastness of history as unknown as a single leaf in a forest in Idaho somewhere.
I give my life meaning. If you allow someone else to give your life meaning, they become the master. I am fortunate that I am able to even say that. Millions, billions can only get their freedom by dying. Fuck the gods man. To live fully you have to work fully, I like filet, lobster and king crab. I like a pool in the back yard, my Jag, my truck, even my robot vacuum.
Death is what drives my life. Death is what gives life meaning. Live hard, work hard, love hard, its over quicker than you will ever know.
Quote from: aitm on March 14, 2015, 10:15:32 PM
I give my life meaning. If you allow someone else to give your life meaning, they become the master. I am fortunate that I am able to even say that. Millions, billions can only get their freedom by dying. Fuck the gods man. To live fully you have to work fully, I like filet, lobster and king crab. I like a pool in the back yard, my Jag, my truck, even my robot vacuum.
Death is what drives my life. Death is what gives life meaning. Live hard, work hard, love hard, its over quicker than you will ever know.
Pretty similar feelings. Grew up poor with a single mother. Everything I owned from the time I was old enough to work I paid for. All my clothes, every car, everything. I raised 3 kids and support a chronically ill wife and have done so for 38 years. I have a walk in crib I built full of tools because I know how to use all of them and do. I've worked for everything I have my entire life. I am proud of my skills and what I accomplish, and I always have a project ongoing and another waiting after that. Life has exactly as much purpose as you give it. And yeah, its over way too soon.
Ditto! Solitary Experience gives me meaning in life, whether good or bad, unless the bad is too unbearable and I loose the will to live. Been there, done that. So like I said, trying stay alive gives me purpose now, and great memories I've had. I almost said mammeries. :lol: Solitary
Quote from: Solitary on March 15, 2015, 03:28:05 PM
I almost said mammeries.
ahhh,,mammeries,,had some very nice ones of those as well, and while getting older usually means less chance of see more up close and personal, I am always optimistic that i hit some lotto and hell, I can buy tithes by the dozens then….er….not because I am a male pig but because women are….er….okay, I am a male pig, so sue me.
Getting the shower stall nice and sparkling clean with 1 part blue Dawn® dishwashing liquid and 1 part plain white vinegar.. Works better than any of the crap they sell in the stores for such tasks..
Now my life has meaning...having a clean shower stall! :biggrin:
Who defines 'meaning' anyway, and why is there an assumption that life has to have one? It's kind of a value-added thing; life doesn't require a meaning, although we may choose to give it some, for our own purposes.
Life as I see it in the raw, is perpetuating species and life until death. Hardly any purpose in that, and why would there have to be? It's like asking what is the purpose of 1+1=2? :eek: :biggrin2: Solitary
The only meaning of life is winning the last person to posts wins thread. :grin: :grin: :grin:
Seriously I can't think of anything that give meaning to my life. I eat , work and try to stay alive. I value my life very much but ultimately it doesn't matter , we all are going to end 6 foot below the ground. I live my life day by day.
I'm like a bear. purpose? Souds like ego worship to me.
Go scrub your shower with Dawn® and white vinegar.. That'll give you meaning!
What is the purpose of finding the meaning of life if you, your entire species and the entire universe will eventually be reduced to nothing?
Quote from: Qchan on March 16, 2015, 05:19:04 PM
What is the purpose of finding the meaning of life if you, your entire species and the entire universe will eventually be reduced to nothing?
I'm kind of hopeful that my species and universe outlast me.. :think:
I could be wrong though in which case I'll go scrub the shower again before it's too late! :shifty:
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on March 16, 2015, 05:38:47 PM
I'm kind of hopeful that my species and universe outlast me.. :think:
I could be wrong though in which case I'll go scrub the shower again before it's too late! :shifty:
What I mean is, what's the meaning of life if life will be destroyed anyway? You're saying your life has purpose. I'm just curious as to what purpose that is.
The question is what gives your life meaning.
If your life has no meaning, go ahead and die.
My life has meaning because i am working on something no one else has done, a hard skinned 7 foot boat that can be backpacked.
helping my terminally ill wife enjoy what is left of her life.
Enjoying the lives of my children and grandchildren as they grow and change.
Enjoying the outdoors and nature when I go camping.
Riding my mountain bike when camping, and on the nature trails not far from where I live.
This provides meaning and purpose to my life.
Writing, photography, writing a journal for my grandkids, all these thing can serve as a legacy to them.
Writing and producing a journal of my father's experience in WW1 from his diary, and my mother's life growing up on the first farms in Idaho, telling the stories to pass on to other generations.
As I said, it has exactly as much meaning as you give it.
The question was what gives your life meaning, not the meaning of life; a semantic difference.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buqtdpuZxvk
Quote from: stromboli on March 16, 2015, 06:32:22 PM
The question is what gives your life meaning.
If your life has no meaning, go ahead and die.
My life has meaning because i am working on something no one else has done, a hard skinned 7 foot boat that can be backpacked.
helping my terminally ill wife enjoy what is left of her life.
Enjoying the lives of my children and grandchildren as they grow and change.
Enjoying the outdoors and nature when I go camping.
Riding my mountain bike when camping, and on the nature trails not far from where I live.
This provides meaning and purpose to my life.
Writing, photography, writing a journal for my grandkids, all these thing can serve as a legacy to them.
Writing and producing a journal of my father's experience in WW1 from his diary, and my mother's life growing up on the first farms in Idaho, telling the stories to pass on to other generations.
As I said, it has exactly as much meaning as you give it.
The question was what gives your life meaning, not the meaning of life; a semantic difference.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buqtdpuZxvk
And when your wife dies, then what? What would've been the purpose of her life? After you and your grand children die, she won't be remembered, and her existence on this planet would be long forgotten. So, what meaning does she have?
Same with you. When you die, all the accomplishments you've made and everything you stood for would mean nothing. Generations from now, no one will remember you, and it'll be as if you've never existed. You say the projects you're doing gives your life meaning. Your projects are no more important than a bird's project to build its nest. No more important than a beaver's project to build its dam.
Contemplating on the meaning of life is pointless and silly, don't you agree?
I don't contemplate, I do. Life is dynamic or static. If you want to sit around and bemoan your eventual or imminent death, be my guest. I'm doing things to make life purposeful to myself and others.
Glacier National Park is almost without glaciers. I went there and recorded what remained on film and am leaving books with pictures of their beauty for my children and grandchildren, so they can see how beautiful it was and work to regain the beauty that was lost. Perhaps pointless, but there is purpose to doing it.
And the statement in the OP is what gives meaning to your life, not what is the meaning of life. Life might be ultimately meaningless, but you can still pursue projects and be creative and enjoy what you can before you die.
Ever hear of Terry Pratchett? One of my favorite writers. He died a few days ago. But he leaves behind him a wealth of literature and millions of readers who have been changed and elevated by his work. He had Alzheimer's. He was even contemplating his own suicide. Yet he continued to the end, and we are all enriched by his efforts.
If he had decided his life was purposeless and never written a word, we would not have been enriched and enlightened by it. My own motto is the only direction that matters is forward, because I have seen many people give up on life and simply stop caring, and allowing themselves to die. I refuse to do that.
So go drink yourself into oblivion or whatever and feel sorry for yourself because your life is ultimately purposeless. Like I've said about 3 times, life has exactly as much purpose as you give it. You give it no purpose it has none.
[quote author=Qchan link=topic=7288.msg1064749#msg1064749 date=1426562027
Same with you. When you die, all the accomplishments you've made and everything you stood for would mean nothing. Generations from now, no one will remember you, and it'll be as if you've never existed. You say the projects you're doing gives your life meaning. Your projects are no more important than a bird's project to build its nest. No more important than a beaver's project to build its dam.
Contemplating on the meaning of life is pointless and silly, don't you agree?
[/quote]
When anyone dies, the meaning that life gave them will die with that person. Their projects or accomplishments may live on for awhile, but they will not give their life meaning because they don't have a life--they're dead. And will be dead for generations to come. So what? The meaning I find in my life is for right here and right now. I could give a rats ass if that meaning lives on or not. And I may find a different meaning tomorrow. I don't live my life for tomorrow, but for right now. Contemplating on the meaning of life is not either pointless or silly. I find it rather amusing. But contemplating on the meaning of life does not give my life meaning. I do. Or not. It's up to me.
Life has meaning. It means "not dead".
Seriously (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/life?s=t)
Quote from: Qchan on March 16, 2015, 11:13:47 PM
And when your wife dies, then what? What would've been the purpose of her life? After you and your grand children die, she won't be remembered, and her existence on this planet would be long forgotten. So, what meaning does she have?
Same with you. When you die, all the accomplishments you've made and everything you stood for would mean nothing. Generations from now, no one will remember you, and it'll be as if you've never existed. You say the projects you're doing gives your life meaning. Your projects are no more important than a bird's project to build its nest. No more important than a beaver's project to build its dam.
Contemplating on the meaning of life is pointless and silly, don't you agree?
No, I don't. Just because life doesn't endure doesn't mean it is pointless. Humans try to make sense of the universe around them by looking for patterns and trying to affect change. We question, wonder and explore. You may not appreciate being alive but I definitely do and I often think about how to make the best of the time I have.
Quote from: GSOgymrat on March 17, 2015, 04:33:34 AM
No, I don't. Just because life doesn't endure doesn't mean it is pointless. Humans try to make sense of the universe around them by looking for patterns and trying to affect change. We question, wonder and explore. You may not appreciate being alive but I definitely do and I often think about how to make the best of the time I have.
Seems like you're trying to find a greater purpose that isn't there. What makes you any different than a busy bird, or a busy beaver, or a busy mouse? You're trying to find a purpose to your life that's stamped right on your forehead.
Quote from: Qchan on March 17, 2015, 07:40:49 AM
Seems like you're trying to find a greater purpose that isn't there. What makes you any different than a busy bird, or a busy beaver, or a busy mouse? You're trying to find a purpose to your life that's stamped right on your forehead.
I am not saying there is a "greater purpose." You seem to be saying that life has no meaning because it is finite where I believe the fact life is short makes it more special and meaningful to humans, not less. You are correct that my life isn't any more meaningful than an animal's life, except that it is more important to me and people who care about me.
QuoteSame with you. When you die, all the accomplishments you've made and everything you stood for would mean nothing.
How is this even remotely true? If they meant something now, that is what is important. If I make someone smile today, that happiness has existed. Just because they might be put down later, or forget about it a week or two from now... does that mean they weren't happy in the present? No. If an act meant something at the time it was done, then it is engraved into the book of time and will be important for the rest of eternity.
It's only if you view time as only the present, with no past or future, that our actions become meaningless when we die. I don't view time as being so linear.
Quote from: Qchan on March 17, 2015, 07:40:49 AM
Seems like you're trying to find a greater purpose that isn't there. What makes you any different than a busy bird, or a busy beaver, or a busy mouse? You're trying to find a purpose to your life that's stamped right on your forehead.
So far, Q, you have just questioned. You have offered nothing in the way of what you think. You have not taken the time to introduce yourself to the forum. Who the fuck are you????
Quote from: Mike Cl on March 17, 2015, 08:49:49 AM
Who the fuck are you????
I think that answer is readily available in his nick.
Quote from: aitm on March 17, 2015, 09:35:41 AM
I think that answer is readily available in his nick.
Oh! The guy from Star Trek????
Quote from: aitm on March 17, 2015, 09:35:41 AM
I think that answer is readily available in his nick.
Right. still hasn't figured out the difference between giving life meaning Vs the meaning of life. Q indeed. All yours, Big Dog. Wave your magic wand/ ban hammer as you see fit. I got shit to do in my purposeful life.
And happy St. Patrick's Day. don't drive drunk.
Quote from: Shiranu on March 17, 2015, 08:39:16 AM
How is this even remotely true? If they meant something now, that is what is important. If I make someone smile today, that happiness has existed. Just because they might be put down later, or forget about it a week or two from now... does that mean they weren't happy in the present? No. If an act meant something at the time it was done, then it is engraved into the book of time and will be important for the rest of eternity.
It's only if you view time as only the present, with no past or future, that our actions become meaningless when we die. I don't view time as being so linear.
What you're saying sounds nice. However, it's simply not logical to many people. Not everyone has a legacy to leave behind that would benefit the world. That's just the truth behind it all.
According to evolution, it was by luck that our kind are even here. Now, we have people trying to find the purpose for being when there's no logical purpose for humans. Everyone knows that if humans did not exist, the planet would probably be better off. Our air would be cleaner and the Earth would be more bountiful. We have nothing to offer this planet while other creatures do. Dare I say, other animals are far more useful to this planet than we are. So, tell me. What is the purpose of human existence? What do we contribute to this planet that makes logical sense to you?
Quote from: Mike Cl on March 17, 2015, 08:49:49 AM
So far, Q, you have just questioned. You have offered nothing in the way of what you think. You have not taken the time to introduce yourself to the forum. Who the fuck are you????
Why must I introduce myself for you to know who I am? I'll do what you're asking, but it doesn't make any logical sense to me.
Quote from: Qchan on March 17, 2015, 12:21:55 PM
Why must I introduce myself for you to know who I am? I'll do what you're asking, but it doesn't make any logical sense to me.
Or you can just go away.
Quote from: stromboli on March 17, 2015, 12:23:01 PM
Or you can just go away.
I didn't ask what the alternatives were. I asked for the reason why. Besides, I have done so to ease unneeded tension.
Quote from: Qchan on March 17, 2015, 12:21:55 PM
Why must I introduce myself for you to know who I am? I'll do what you're asking, but it doesn't make any logical sense to me.
I suppose Q, that you don't need to. You could lie about what you tell us anyway--who would know? I think it polite, that's all.
Quote from: Qchan on March 17, 2015, 12:20:40 PM
What you're saying sounds nice. However, it's simply not logical to many people. Not everyone has a legacy to leave behind that would benefit the world. That's just the truth behind it all.
According to evolution, it was by luck that our kind are even here. Now, we have people trying to find the purpose for being when there's no logical purpose for humans. Everyone knows that if humans did not exist, the planet would probably be better off. Our air would be cleaner and the Earth would be more bountiful. We have nothing to offer this planet while other creatures do. Dare I say, other animals are far more useful to this planet than we are. So, tell me. What is the purpose of human existence?
There is only one purpose to life--and that is life itself. That's all. The only purpose one has is what one wants to have. I have a purpose for my life; a purpose that I cannot even fully explain to myself. I do know that I want to live. When my body runs out or I stop wanting to live, then I'll stop living. I could care less if I am remembered after I die. Have I fulfilled some purpose with my life--I think so, that is what counts. I don't worry about legacy. Joseph Campbell also said that the only purpose to life is life. I agree. He suggest that we all follow our 'bliss'--and I do. If felt that if one follows ones bliss, all else will fall into place. I agree. I try to follow my bliss and so far I'm happy (not really a good word)--satisfied I guess is better. This planet has no purpose--this universe has no purpose. It is then, sort of futile to try to find some grand scheme or purpose for any of it.
Quote from: Mike Cl on March 17, 2015, 03:42:01 PM
There is only one purpose to life--and that is life itself. That's all. The only purpose one has is what one wants to have. I have a purpose for my life; a purpose that I cannot even fully explain to myself. I do know that I want to live. When my body runs out or I stop wanting to live, then I'll stop living. I could care less if I am remembered after I die. Have I fulfilled some purpose with my life--I think so, that is what counts. I don't worry about legacy. Joseph Campbell also said that the only purpose to life is life. I agree. He suggest that we all follow our 'bliss'--and I do. If felt that if one follows ones bliss, all else will fall into place. I agree. I try to follow my bliss and so far I'm happy (not really a good word)--satisfied I guess is better. This planet has no purpose--this universe has no purpose. It is then, sort of futile to try to find some grand scheme or purpose for any of it.
Purpose implies a designer, and I don't think either of us buy that concept.
Quote from: Mike Cl on March 17, 2015, 03:42:01 PM
There is only one purpose to life--and that is life itself. That's all. The only purpose one has is what one wants to have. I have a purpose for my life; a purpose that I cannot even fully explain to myself. I do know that I want to live. When my body runs out or I stop wanting to live, then I'll stop living. I could care less if I am remembered after I die. Have I fulfilled some purpose with my life--I think so, that is what counts. I don't worry about legacy. Joseph Campbell also said that the only purpose to life is life. I agree. He suggest that we all follow our 'bliss'--and I do. If felt that if one follows ones bliss, all else will fall into place. I agree. I try to follow my bliss and so far I'm happy (not really a good word)--satisfied I guess is better. This planet has no purpose--this universe has no purpose. It is then, sort of futile to try to find some grand scheme or purpose for any of it.
You said you can't fully understand the purpose of your own life. Why is that?
Quote from: GSOgymrat on March 17, 2015, 03:53:15 PM
Purpose implies a designer, and I don't think either of us buy that concept.
Precisely. Of course, this mentality causes severe depression and many people commit suicide because of it. Could you explain why people do that? Why do they fall under depression for only realizing the facts - that one day they will die?
Quote from: Qchan on March 17, 2015, 12:20:40 PM
Everyone knows that if humans did not exist, the planet would probably be better off. Our air would be cleaner and the Earth would be more bountiful. We have nothing to offer this planet while other creatures do. Dare I say, other animals are far more useful to this planet than we are. So, tell me. What is the purpose of human existence? What do we contribute to this planet that makes logical sense to you?
How do you measure usefullness to the planet? How do you measure contributing to the planet?
Quote from: TrueStory on March 17, 2015, 04:19:26 PM
How do you measure usefullness to the planet? How do you measure contributing to the planet?
In this case, the "usefulness" of the planet would attribute to our biological qualities returning sustenance to the earth. Bees help pollinate plants, which helps them to spread and grow. Plants provide oxygen for us animals to breath. They also provide food. Many animals provide fertilizer for the earth so plants can grow. We do not contribute to any of that. In fact, we pollute the air, we cut down trees, and we expand. We give very little back to the earth.
Quote from: Qchan on March 17, 2015, 04:27:29 PM
In this case, the "usefulness" of the planet would attribute to our biological qualities returning sustenance to the earth. Bees help pollinate plants, which helps them to spread and grow. Plants provide oxygen for us animals to breath. They also provide food. Many animals provide fertilizer for the earth so plants can grow. We do not contribute to any of that. In fact, we pollute the air, we cut down trees, and we expand. We give very little back to the earth.
So the earths purpose is to support life? And the purpose of all plants and animals are to support life for other plants and animals?
Quote from: Qchan on March 17, 2015, 04:09:31 PM
You said you can't fully understand the purpose of your own life. Why is that?
Science hasn't told me yet all the ins and outs of my mind--of my genes. What I am is determined by my genes and environment. How they interact is a science that has a long way to go. Science is still determining how the chemical makeup of my body determines what I think and how I feel. Actually, I've never really been too hung up on my purpose. It is a fun thing to contemplate--who and what we are as individuals and as a species. Where do we fit in the universe. Are we really living in an atom in the big toe of a giant? But that does not impact my daily life. It does not depress nor elate my state of being. Skyrim can do that--what my purpose in life doesn't. I follow my bliss and leave it at that.
And you, Q, have you ever contemplated your purpose in life? Come to any conclusions?
Quote from: Qchan on March 17, 2015, 04:09:31 PM
Precisely. Of course, this mentality causes severe depression and many people commit suicide because of it. Could you explain why people do that? Why do they fall under depression for only realizing the facts - that one day they will die?
What you are describing is an existential crisis. I can't satisfactorily explain the relationship with depression in a forum post but you may want to check out the Wiki entry for the basics. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existential_crisis
Quote from: Mike Cl on March 17, 2015, 05:37:24 PM
Science hasn't told me yet all the ins and outs of my mind--of my genes. What I am is determined by my genes and environment. How they interact is a science that has a long way to go. Science is still determining how the chemical makeup of my body determines what I think and how I feel. Actually, I've never really been too hung up on my purpose. It is a fun thing to contemplate--who and what we are as individuals and as a species. Where do we fit in the universe. Are we really living in an atom in the big toe of a giant? But that does not impact my daily life. It does not depress nor elate my state of being. Skyrim can do that--what my purpose in life doesn't. I follow my bliss and leave it at that.
And you, Q, have you ever contemplated your purpose in life? Come to any conclusions?
That's a very robotic way of looking at yourself. Even I wouldn't look at you in such a light.
Quote from: Qchan on March 17, 2015, 06:58:26 PM
That's a very robotic way of looking at yourself. Even I wouldn't look at you in such a light.
Regardless how disagreeable a concept might be to our vanities, the facts still remain. Empirical evidence infers that we are more like biochemical robots in which autonomy could be real or just an illusion, when taking into account the effects of genetics, epigenetics, and environment. We care about people and things because we evolved these emotions and strategies that benefited our species. Our self-interest is very important, since truly self-less people neglect themselves and produce few if any viable offspring. Because of this self-interest coupled with emotions, we prefer to see ourselves as being important in some meaningful way. We search for a meaning or purpose to our life. Not much fun caring about yourself if you ultimately do not matter. However, the more we learn about the universe, as well as our evolution, anatomy, and physiology... it is becoming increasingly clear that we do not have the lofty purpose we feel we should.
People can commit suicide over this realization because they feel cheated of their "ultimate meaning" and feel their life was a wasted investment. Others are able to accept the facts as they become available and remain content having existed at all with a rational side to understand things around them and an emotional side to enjoy curiosity and learning new things. As we become more knowledgeable of our existence and increase in intellect, it seems nature is ever present in culling those who cannot handle such harsh realities from those who can.
People
Things
a game or two..
Quote from: Qchan on March 17, 2015, 06:58:26 PM
That's a very robotic way of looking at yourself. Even I wouldn't look at you in such a light.
I suppose. But that does not bother me. For whatever reason, I'm here, right now. And I have enjoyed it and plan to enjoy it in the future...........until I no longer enjoy it. I will continue to follow my bliss until I die---and that does not mean that my bliss is a singular thing--it's not, but made up of multiple things; and things I have not considered yet. So, if you do not see yourself as robotic, how do you see yourself?
Quote from: Aletheia on March 17, 2015, 07:41:13 PM
Regardless how disagreeable a concept might be to our vanities, the facts still remain. Empirical evidence infers that we are more like biochemical robots in which autonomy could be real or just an illusion, when taking into account the effects of genetics, epigenetics, and environment. We care about people and things because we evolved these emotions and strategies that benefited our species. Our self-interest is very important, since truly self-less people neglect themselves and produce few if any viable offspring. Because of this self-interest coupled with emotions, we prefer to see ourselves as being important in some meaningful way. We search for a meaning or purpose to our life. Not much fun caring about yourself if you ultimately do not matter. However, the more we learn about the universe, as well as our evolution, anatomy, and physiology... it is becoming increasingly clear that we do not have the lofty purpose we feel we should.
People can commit suicide over this realization because they feel cheated of their "ultimate meaning" and feel their life was a wasted investment. Others are able to accept the facts as they become available and remain content having existed at all with a rational side to understand things around them and an emotional side to enjoy curiosity and learning new things. As we become more knowledgeable of our existence and increase in intellect, it seems nature is ever present in culling those who cannot handle such harsh realities from those who can.
Very well stated--and I tend to see life the same way.
Quote from: Aletheia on March 17, 2015, 07:41:13 PM
Regardless how disagreeable a concept might be to our vanities, the facts still remain. Empirical evidence infers that we are more like biochemical robots in which autonomy could be real or just an illusion, when taking into account the effects of genetics, epigenetics, and environment. We care about people and things because we evolved these emotions and strategies that benefited our species. Our self-interest is very important, since truly self-less people neglect themselves and produce few if any viable offspring. Because of this self-interest coupled with emotions, we prefer to see ourselves as being important in some meaningful way. We search for a meaning or purpose to our life. Not much fun caring about yourself if you ultimately do not matter. However, the more we learn about the universe, as well as our evolution, anatomy, and physiology... it is becoming increasingly clear that we do not have the lofty purpose we feel we should.
People can commit suicide over this realization because they feel cheated of their "ultimate meaning" and feel their life was a wasted investment. Others are able to accept the facts as they become available and remain content having existed at all with a rational side to understand things around them and an emotional side to enjoy curiosity and learning new things. As we become more knowledgeable of our existence and increase in intellect, it seems nature is ever present in culling those who cannot handle such harsh realities from those who can.
This was the most articulated reply I've received from here. Thank you for this response, because it puts everything in perspective... However... How could a biochemical robot look for meaning in itself? After all, humans only perform actions based on the signals processed in their head, and therefore, do not have the freedom to choose in a sense that any one of us have control over the life we live. Logically, it wouldn't make any sense from that angle. Yet, people feel as though they control their lives and that they control who they are. This isn't how a biochemical robot operates - and yet this is how everyone classifies themselves.
Quote from: Qchan on March 18, 2015, 08:54:25 AM
This was the most articulated reply I've received from here. Thank you for this response, because it puts everything in perspective... However... How could a biochemical robot look for meaning in itself? After all, humans only perform actions based on the signals processed in their head, and therefore, do not have the freedom to choose in a sense that any one of us have control over the life we live. Logically, it wouldn't make any sense from that angle. Yet, people feel as though they control their lives and that they control who they are. This isn't how a biochemical robot operates - and yet this is how everyone classifies themselves.
Are humans only capable of responding to stimuli? Are we incapable of planning and dealing with complex situations? Do we operate 'logically'?
Life is meaningless. Eat dessert first.
Quote from: Icarus on March 18, 2015, 09:22:03 AM
Are humans only capable of responding to stimuli? Are we incapable of planning and dealing with complex situations? Do we operate 'logically'?
Do we operate logically? No, we do not. Animals such as lions, birds and etc. operate logically. They do not do things that we do not expect of them to do. However, humans do all the time.
A gazelle will abandon its young at the first sign of danger. This is a logical action since the death of the young doesn't hinder the gazelle in producing more offspring. Also, the young would make it much easier for the adult gazelle to run to safety. However, humans do not abide by this rule. Many humans will risk their lives for their children. Some might say, "Oh, there are animals that would fight to protect their young". This is only true up to the point where the animal feels its approaching a losing battle. No animal has ever been recorded to ever purposefully sacrifice itself for its young.
Quote from: Qchan on March 18, 2015, 10:05:27 AM
Do we operate logically? No, we do not. Animals such as lions, birds and etc. operate logically. They do not do things that we do not expect of them to do. However, humans do all the time.
A gazelle will abandon its young at the first sign of danger. This is a logical action since the death of the young doesn't hinder the gazelle in producing more offspring. Also, the young would make it much easier for the adult gazelle to run to safety. However, humans do not abide by this rule. Many humans will risk their lives for their children. Some might say, "Oh, there are animals that would fight to protect their young". This is only true up to the point where the animal feels its approaching a losing battle. No animal has ever been recorded to ever purposefully sacrifice itself for its young.
Don't they? I'm guessing you didn't see unusual animal friendships by national geographic. I'm also guessing you missed national geographic's article on animals who mate themselves to death (sacrificing themselves to make more young). You have a lot of reading to catch up on.
Quote from: Icarus on March 18, 2015, 10:10:21 AM
Don't they? I'm guessing you didn't see unusual animal friendships by national geographic. I'm also guessing you missed national geographic's article on animals who mate themselves to death (sacrificing themselves to make more young). You have a lot of reading to catch up on.
I like how you make these wild assertions but provide no proof. I'll tell you what. I'll provide you proof:
Quote
The evolutionary theories described above, in particular kin selection, go a long way towards reconciling the existence of altruism in nature with Darwinian principles. However, some people have felt these theories in a way devalue altruism, and that the behaviours they explain are not ‘really’ altruistic. The grounds for this view are easy to see. Ordinarily we think of altruistic actions as disinterested, done with the interests of the recipient, rather than our own interests, in mind. But kin selection theory explains altruistic behaviour as a clever strategy devised by selfish genes as a way of increasing their representation in the gene-pool, at the expense of other genes. Surely this means that the behaviours in question are only ‘apparently’ altruistic, for they are ultimately the result of genic self-interest? Reciprocal altruism theory also seems to ‘take the altruism out of altruism’. Behaving nicely to someone in order to procure return benefits from them in the future seems in a way the antithesis of ‘real’ altruismâ€"it is just delayed self-interest.
Source: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/altruism-biological/
Quote from: Qchan on March 18, 2015, 10:19:02 AM
I like how you make these wild assertions but provide no proof. I'll tell you what. I'll provide you proof:
Source: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/altruism-biological/
Oh dear, that's from a secondary philosophy based source. It's about as far from proof as you can get when talking about scientific sources. Here's a primary scientific source supporting my claim: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3020937/
Don't try to read it all at once, you might hurt your brain.
Quote from: Icarus on March 18, 2015, 10:26:26 AM
Oh dear, that's from a secondary philosophy based source. It's about as far from proof as you can get when talking about scientific sources. Here's a primary scientific source supporting my claim: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3020937/
Don't try to read it all at once, you might hurt your brain.
The link appears to be broken.
It works for me! Solitary
Quote from: Qchan on March 18, 2015, 10:37:01 AM
The link appears to be broken.
It's not, you're a bad liar (copy+paste also works).
Since you're all having fun with this, I found a "Scientific" idea.
The "purpose" of life is to create more of itself. Life creates DNA, DNA is uses to make more life. Blah Blah Blah. Just want to know what you think about it.
Quote from: Qchan on March 17, 2015, 12:20:40 PM
What you're saying sounds nice. However, it's simply not logical to many people. Not everyone has a legacy to leave behind that would benefit the world. That's just the truth behind it all.
According to evolution, it was by luck that our kind are even here. Now, we have people trying to find the purpose for being when there's no logical purpose for humans. Everyone knows that if humans did not exist, the planet would probably be better off. Our air would be cleaner and the Earth would be more bountiful. We have nothing to offer this planet while other creatures do. Dare I say, other animals are far more useful to this planet than we are. So, tell me. What is the purpose of human existence? What do we contribute to this planet that makes logical sense to you?
How many animals have created art like Da Vinci, Homer, Virgil, Van Gogh, Monet, Michelangelo, Dostoevsky, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle? How many animals have composed songs like Mozart, Prokofiev, Bach, Beethoven, Chopin, Dvorvak, Tchaikovsky?
How many animals have come up with such beautiful philosophies and life views as the Buddha? Been as instrumental to peace as Ghandi? Have helped the poor like Bill Gates?
You view use in one way, I view use in another; to me, beauty is the ultimate of life. Animals are beautiful in their natural ways, but man is able to turn the elements around him to make beauty that no other creature on Earth can. Therefor, there is much use in humanity for me.