You decide! https://music.xbox.com/artist/drake/3fae0300-0200-11db-89ca-0019b92a3933
http://youtu.be/92bfkqxIdvI
(http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb366/magicrob99/rock%20n%20roll%20kanye_zpsvk5ymwty.jpg) (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/magicrob99/media/rock%20n%20roll%20kanye_zpsvk5ymwty.jpg.html)
:super:
:popcorn:
Rap is not music. This is music.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nlSGsQY_3o
Weird. the beat of the video was exactly in time with your head banging signature. :eek:
I really loathe the ascendancy of rap/pop bullshit in the top 40. I really miss the old alt rock days.
I really miss Johnny Cash.
I'm sure your folks felt the same way about Elvis, Solitary...
Rap is some bullshit, with the exception of a few songs, none of them can have the feelings, or the sounds, that a good rock song carries
Two can play that game...
This is why rap is better than rock.
So, you mean to tell me that is worse than rock?
Or this.... garbage... that sounds like he is being murdered. I don't have a problem with bad voices, I like Bob Dylan and Bright Eyes but... what the fuck? How does this shit become popular?
---
Moral of the story; it is very easy to take the best of a genre, and put it up against the worst of a genre, and say, "See! This is why genre y is better than genre z!"
At the end of the day, I will take the best rap over the best rock, but it is close. The best rap simply pulls from such huge social issues that rockers (being predominately white) generally don't have the experience to address. That said, rock does have many deep songs about more personal issues and so in that regard there is some very deep rock songs as well.
And please, alt rock is full of absolute garbage that can go blow-for-blow in shittyness with the crap-pop songs. Same can be said of 90's, 80's, 70's, etc. rock... you just choose not to remember the shitty songs because they were... shit. And honestly; I will take Drake any day of the week over Jett. Her music is just not in the least bit appealing to me, I put it in the category with Elvis and Ac/Dc (and that other shitty band that was popular with them... Guns and roses I think)... I can see why people like them, but holy fuck they are painful for me to listen to.
Rap sucks.
Shiranu. You almost had me on your side.... but then you said Thunderstruck and AC/DC is bad?
I agree that some rock sucks.... Songs like "We built this city on rock and roll" are boring, stupid songs. But AC/DC is one of the bands rock would put as a picture description. Hard, primal, energetic, battle-crying music.
Bash the voice all you want, but his voice makes the song as much as the music does.
Other than that, you have a point. Some people are given bad examples of rap. I personally don't really gravitate to rap, but I like a few of them Tupac has a few songs I don't mind listening to... another is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsZKrctSDaw
Although that's probably more along the lines of hip-hop.... but that's splitting hairs.
Might as well share some FNM though, since it's in a sub-genre of rock and one of my favorites right now
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I625zPMQ4r4
and oh yeah. Buckethead.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kz32kqTj3SI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTsi3g5s-zs
Quote from: PickelledEggs on March 05, 2015, 12:08:23 AM
Shiranu. You almost had me on your side.... but then you said Thunderstruck and AC/DC is bad?
I agree that some rock sucks.... Songs like "We built this city on rock and roll" are boring, stupid songs. But AC/DC is one of the bands rock would put as a picture description. Hard, primal, energetic, battle-crying music.
Bash the voice all you want, but his voice makes the song as much as the music does.
Other than that, you have a point. Some people are given bad examples of rap. I personally don't really gravitate to rap, but I like a few of them Tupac has a few songs I don't mind listening to... another is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsZKrctSDaw
Although that's probably more along the lines of hip-hop.... but that's splitting hairs.
Might as well share some FNM though, since it's in a sub-genre of rock and one of my favorites right now
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I625zPMQ4r4
and oh yeah. Buckethead.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kz32kqTj3SI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTsi3g5s-zs
Like I said, they are in my list of... "I see why people like them, but for me I want to stab myself in the ears with flaming pokers to try and alleviate the pain".
I shouldn't of put them under bad like the others though, just something I don't enjoy. At all.
Quote from: Shiranu on March 04, 2015, 11:41:50 PMSo, you mean to tell me that is worse than rock?
YES. The best rap songs sound sort of okay to me. Like 5/10, maybe 6/10. The best rock songs blow them right out of the water. Talking over a beat, no matter how skilled, simply can't compare to singing and playing an instrument.
Quoteit is very easy to take the best of a genre, and put it up against the worst of a genre, and say, "See! This is why genre y is better than genre z!"
Except that's not exactly the comparison. It's modern chart-topping rap VS other genres and decades. Is that unfair? Probably. Biased? Most definitely. But it's a pretty easy genre to pick on.
As we speak, these are the top 3 rap songs in the US:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTXJQ5ql5Fw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXtsGAkyeIo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvlQOjK0MPk
Suffice it to say that I'm not impressed.
QuoteAnd please, alt rock is full of absolute garbage that can go blow-for-blow in shittyness with the crap-pop songs.
Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Alice in Chains, Foo Fighters, Smashing Pumpkins, Soundgarden, STP, etc = absolute garbage?!
(http://i.imgur.com/f0AoMPG.gif)
Seriously.
I say that's complete bullshit. No creativity. Lyrics are written by marketing geniuses so they can make the words/beat catchy. The lament would think that catchy automatically means good.
after you get this song stuck in your head from one listen, you will realize that it's bullshit too:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymKLymvwD2U
Btw, solitary. Unrelated to the rest of my post , but this next song is for you ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElqU3ZGXoXo
To each their own, but to say "talking over a beat" with amazing lyrics will never be better than singing sounds about as silly as saying, "Words in a book will never be as good as singing". I am sure Immortal Technique, who is completely independent, probably had his label's men write the lyrics for him...
If you are talking purely on the way it makes your ears feel, I suppose that is true. I just like to think there is a little more depth to music than that. And to write off an entire genre of music that covers social issues rock cant even dream of covering (outside of punk rock, which many rockers cant stand) simply because it's "too simple" really just screams musical snobbery to me.
QuoteExcept that's not exactly the comparison. It's modern chart-topping rap VS other genres and decades.
Uh... the songs I posted, and the songs yall are posting, are not chart topping rap/rock or all from the same decade (or even genre)...
QuoteNirvana, Pearl Jam, Alice in Chains, Foo Fighters, Smashing Pumpkins, Soundgarden, STP, etc = absolute garbage?!
(http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss204/lilsed4/SteveHarvey.gif)
QuoteLyrics are written by marketing geniuses so they can make the words/beat catchy.
So is 99% of pop rock. And pop pop. And pop... whatever.
Considering great bands of the past used writers as well... yeah, pop music uses writers. That is how things work. That is hardly something you can point to rap and say that brings it down, because rockers have used writers just as much as the next genre.
Lyrics too deep, I have to step back and reflect on life.
Quote from: Shiranu on March 05, 2015, 12:58:09 AMIf you are talking purely on the way it makes your ears feel, I suppose that is true.
Well, yanno, the whole ears thing is a pretty important part of music...
QuoteAnd to write off an entire genre of music that covers social issues rock cant even dream of covering (outside of punk rock, which many rockers cant stand)
I don't know where you came up with this, but I'd imagine forceps and a mirror were involved. Because rock does indeed cover social issues, especially war.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBfjU3_XOaA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHiqGqoIGII
QuoteUh... the songs I posted, and the songs yall are posting, are not chart topping rap/rock or all from the same decade (or even genre)...
What part of other genres and decades was unclear? It's going to vary a lot.
Quote(http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss204/lilsed4/SteveHarvey.gif)
Says the only guy to dislike Thunderstruck I've ever met. Seriously, that's a classic.
QuoteLyrics too deep, I have to step back and reflect on life.
Could be worse. They could be singing, scratch that, rapping about chainz 'n' hoes.
Forgot this gem.
QuoteI don't know where you came up with this, but I'd imagine forceps and a mirror were involved. Because rock does indeed cover social issues, especially war.
Sorry, but how much rock deals with the issues that rap does, of inequality and years upon years of being suppressed by the majority? Of the destruction of your culture? Of drug issues effecting communities and love for a single mother who did the best she could because her husband was killed by violence?
And I like how one of the songs you posted was a punk band :P.
As I said, I think alot of rock has great meaning, it just tends to deal with the "I" rather than the community as rap does. Personally, I think the latter is more important.
QuoteWhat part of other genres and decades was unclear? It's going to vary a lot.
...the "rap" i've posted has been from different genres and of different decades. This is why I am confused; neither of us are posting from a single genre or decade.
QuoteSays the only guy to dislike Thunderstruck I've ever met. Seriously, that's a classic.
So is "Achy Breaky Heart" or Frank Sinatra; doesn't make them any more pleasurable to listen to. I listen to music I enjoy because I enjoy it, not because it's popular or fits a genre I think is better than another.
QuoteCould be worse. They could be singing, scratch that, rapping about chainz 'n' hoes.
A. I'll take chains and hoes over, "WAAAH I'M SUCH A LITTLE BITCH, LOOK AT ME TRY TO ACT TOUGH!" any day.
B. I'll take actual gangsters over that poser bullshit any day. Let me see Fred Durst or the Godsmack or Trapt singer, or any of the angst-rock that makes up 95% of pop rock you hear on the radio and dominated the airwaves in the 90s, go up against any comparable popular rapper. They would get the living shit beat out of them because they are a bunch of fake ass bitches trying to sound so rebellious and hardcore when they are just some middle-class white guys who the most rebellious thing they did was probably talk in the classroom when they weren't suppose to. Or were heroin-addicts.
Good god someone close this thread before Brian starts slamming Abba in here.....
:super:.
(http://media.giphy.com/media/ciP0N1QVpJ8Xe/giphy.gif)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tqxzWdKKu8
Don't care how "good" a piece of rap is. The best-smelling shit is still shit. Rap is not music. This is music:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2pCANfkarU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-aQA3WsuaY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjfqQubgX-o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEPHLPmt914
Quote from: PopeyesPappy on March 04, 2015, 08:56:03 PM
I'm sure your folks felt the same way about Elvis, Solitary...
My mother was from Nashville Tennessee, what do you think? Solitary
Rap is music according to the definition, but as a former musician, I like a melody and not just noise with dumb ass lyrics that move one to violence against women, and only talk about blacks and their plight like they are the only ones have a problem with our society?
As to rap dealing with social issues, what are these lyrics about?
http://youtu.be/49pfvKW1iQc
Talkin' heads are talkin'
But listen to what they say
How they sit in judgment
And claim to know the way
If dreams can be dismembered
And our worth can be ignored
Need a new direction
'Cause this one we can't afford
There's bad stuff happening
And no one does a thing
What can I do, what can I say
When they just speak at us in riddles?
How can this be, why can't you see
That they just speak at us in riddles?
We got ourselves in trouble
With no relief in sight
Everyday is such a struggle
'Cause they had to pick a fight
How can this be happening?
Can't we do anything?
The peace is the war, the rich are too poor
An' they just speak at us in riddles
How can this be, why can't you see
That they just speak at us in riddles?
We're stuck right in the middle
Clear skies, baby
Healthy forests
No child left behind
Wake up people
Big brother is watchin' you
They're takin' all your rights away
Don't claim that you represent me
'Cause I don't believe a word that ya say
What can I do, what can I say
When they just speak at us in riddles?
How can this be, why can't you see
That they just speak at us in riddles?
Let's see through the riddles
http://youtu.be/oExTf5jIVoM I rest my case that
Rap is crap! Rock-N-Roll, which includes Punk Rock that says try everything once before judging. Solitary
Guys guys, think how fkn boring it would be if we all liked the same shitt, times change and so does music and musical taste's, appreciate what u like and respect what others like even if you dont. And now this, from a great scottish band im sure a few of you will know, enjoy, or dont.......
http://youtu.be/eOgCjTXVnWk
Quote from: Green Bottle on March 05, 2015, 11:23:51 AMrespect what others like even if you dont.
But then what would we argue about?
Thanks for sharing, GB. Beautiful scenery.
Quote from: Green Bottle on March 05, 2015, 11:23:51 AM
Guys guys, think how fkn boring it would be if we all liked the same shitt, times change and so does music and musical taste's, appreciate what u like and respect what others like even if you dont. And now this, from a great scottish band im sure a few of you will know, enjoy, or dont.......
http://youtu.be/eOgCjTXVnWk
"Guys guys, think how fkn boring it would be if we all liked the same shitt, times change and so does music and musical taste's, appreciate what u like and respect what others like even if you dont. And now this, from a great scottish band im sure a few of you will know, enjoy, or dont......". You are correct, however: That's just my point, rap is crap because it is boring, with the same sound, same beat, and no melody. Solitary
This is all an old debate. As a kid my mother hated rock music and her mother hated a lot of the jazz standards of the day and her mother probably hated ragtime music and so on.. If you had been raised on nothing but church hymns and had never heard popular music in your life and suddenly someone came to your home and blared Stairway to Heaven you might think that the devil had come into your home to send you straight to hell.. It's all relative to what we're being sold at any given epoch..
I think there is a big distinction between "crap" and what is simply not good/creative/skilled/etc. The top 3 rap songs that Hydra shared in his post are simply crap. They are not creative, they're overly cliche and over done, and they don't really take any skill to do either. There are some rap songs that are good/creative/ etc... it's just that not a lot of the popular ones are. Eminem is extremely good. Biggie Smalls and Tupac were extremely creative and clever with their lyrics... There usually isn't the instrumental skill in there (there are snippets from other songs or some more simplified beat), but you have to consider where some of these artists come from and what they had access to. Some came from poor neighborhoods and couldn't afford guitars, drums, etc. They made due and improvised with what they had, which was other tracks. I respect that completely. An artist really shows their colors when they are limited with what they can use. The rap artists of the 80s and early 90s are really great... and there are still some out there that are clever and skilled with a good vocabulary and really great lyrics.
Again, this is coming from me. Someone that doesn't even really like rap... but I wouldn't say rap is crap... There is a ton of rock that is crap too, and I like blues, rock and a bunch of their sub-genres. Nickleback makes me nautious (no one likes Nickleback)... I don't like Pearl Jam and that is a good band. I don't even really like Led Zepplin or the Beatles.... but by no means do I think they are bad... because they aren't, just like just because something is rap doesn't make it shit music. It's only shit music if it's shit music. You can't over generalize things like that.
I like some rap.
I guess the jazz and church-choir style singers in this song are crap since it's in a rap song... and the lyrics are just ho's, drugs, guns and bitches because that's all rap is about...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVPaUvNOQPw
Best rap song of all time
This one too. The best
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6y-C_vCHoE
I can sum up my objections to rap pretty simply.
First, I fail to see the artistic merit in having every other word be an obscenity, or a racial or sexual epithet.
Second, it is so agonizingly non-melodic.
Third, I don't need to hear it at 90 decibels or more at 3.30 in the morning while someone's idling at the stop sign on the corner -- or from an apartment across the courtyard. Don't crank it until you're on the highway, or wear headphones, as appropriate.
(If/when I ever get another car, I swear I'm gonna drive through the campus district with Bach going at max volume at 4am...)
:super: Yes, nothing better than music that hurts your ears, including some Rock songs. To me most rap, unless done with an orchestra and by a professional composer that knows what makes good music, Rap all sounds exactly the same, with the same monotonous beat, and no melody. I like Reggae and when I went to Nevis I was so disappointed that it had evolved into Rap. Boring! Yes, there are bad Rock songs, but overall rap is all basically the same beat with no melody, like Natives dancing around a campfire chanting with a constant drum beat that all sound alike.
It has been said that most people don't like Classical music because they can't enjoy the changes in tempo, chord changes, loudness and softness, melodies, and scale progressions, higher and refined emotional feelings, which is what is missing in Rap, and not just one strong primitive emotion to move them, etc. So they need the music loud and pounded into their heads like Rap and heavy metal does for them to enjoy. But at least heavy metal has the elements of good music. When I say Rap is Crap I'm talking about it musically, not the message, or whether people like it or not. I love the sound of boxer 12 cylinder Ferrari floored that is just noise, but I wouldn't say it is good music, even if it is to my ears. Solitary
Rap is not music. This is music.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VknBdWENT2Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=at8cjnHd0-A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ikK5docONc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAme1GnVgh8&index=19
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtMXnr293zU
As far as I'm concerned Tupac is the only rapper that matters. There's Dear Mama and Brenda has a baby.
Aside from a few truly exceptional songs, rap tends to be repetitious for entirely too long, is usually superficial, and doesn't merge with your emotions. The rap songs which are good do not linger too long in a particular beat, they talk about something significant, and do call to your emotions.
The main difference between rock and rap is that rock produces good music more often than rap. You can lose yourself to a rock song, whereas the average chart topping rap song keeps the mind in a very shallow range and offers nothing meaningful or even aesthetically pleasing. It's made all the more atrocious when many rap songs take excerpts from other songs and systematically butchers these songs with subpar style and technique.
I am a fan of classical, baroque, jazz, blues, big band, polka, rock, folk, practically everything but gospel and harpsichord (which gives me the willies), and though I cannot tolerate rap I know better than to say so. Yeah, 99% of it does not even reach the realm of "music" much less classify as melodic, but I try to stay out of these arguments because it is simply a shit fest of opinion….and I know I am right and you are wrong…so bleah!
I can't help but feel that with Paul McCartney working with him several times... it's odd to say Kanye isn't much of a musician.
Also; check out "808's and Heartbreaks" or his Dark Fantasy album and tell me he isn't artist and that rap is easy...
ITT: The sounds I aim into my earholes are OBJECTIVELY SUPERIOR to the sounds you aim into your earholes.
It's all a matter of personal taste and I've long since realized that I was the only one with any, so I leave people to their poor listening choices in peace.
But what bothers me about rap is how fucking samey it is. When a rapper comes on the Tonight Show or whatever and their performance starts, it begins with some sort of drum beat or bass riff and then I turn to my roommate and say "I'll bet he says 'yea yea yeah.'" And shit if that doesn't happen seconds later.
Some artists I can recognize as having something, but others are totally phoning it in and making millions off of that.
I have no faith in this coming generation or the one before it.
I am glad I never had children. My genes will not live on to see what shit will be coming next.