Mine is consciousness death. Not the, when you die what happens one.
Let's say that in 10 minutes the YOU that is reading this will die (the consciousness), but there will be a 100% clone copy of your consciousness in your body that is unaware that you died.
Or, let's say we get transporter like technology (like from Star Trek) that takes your atoms, sends them from location A to location B, and reassembles them. Is it you or a copy of you? How could anyone know if you, the you that is your consciousness right now, died and was replaced with a copy?
It is one reason why I somewhat wish that there was a "soul" which was our consciousness. I do not know why it scares me, but it does.
Actually there was a comic that was posted on here a long time ago that pretty much did exactly what you just described, I can't remember where it was but it was a pretty good comic, very existential.
I think the scariest thing that resembles that to me is being stuck in your own body, I.E being paralyzed and unable to move or speak. If you've ever seen Johnny gets his gun, that is probably my ultimate fear
Edit: here's that comic
http://existentialcomics.com/comic/1
Quote from: GrinningYMIR on January 10, 2015, 08:52:26 PM
Actually there was a comic that was posted on here a long time ago that pretty much did exactly what you just described, I can't remember where it was but it was a pretty good comic, very existential.
I think the scariest thing that resembles that to me is being stuck in your own body, I.E being paralyzed and unable to move or speak. If you've ever seen Johnny gets his gun, that is probably my ultimate fear
Edit: here's that comic
http://existentialcomics.com/comic/1
The comment is very interesting and thought provoking.
I try to be every now and then, there are a few things that bother me, or things that I've researched extensively, that particular fate is one I've spent a great time reading about
Yeah, I never trusted beaming technology. It appears to everyone that the transported you is the real you, but really it's just some cosmetic bullshit. It may provide an appearance of continuity for society, but on the individual level it's a horrible state sanctioned genocide. Too much beaming and your DNA is bound to mutate. You'll end up producing such freaky offspring that it will make constant inbreeding seem like a good idea.
Quote from: SNP1 on January 10, 2015, 08:49:16 PM
Mine is consciousness death. Not the, when you die what happens one.
Let's say that in 10 minutes the YOU that is reading this will die (the consciousness), but there will be a 100% clone copy of your consciousness in your body that is unaware that you died.
Or, let's say we get transporter like technology (like from Star Trek) that takes your atoms, sends them from location A to location B, and reassembles them. Is it you or a copy of you? How could anyone know if you, the you that is your consciousness right now, died and was replaced with a copy?
It is one reason why I somewhat wish that there was a "soul" which was our consciousness. I do not know why it scares me, but it does.
If this scares you, you are terrified every moment of every day of your life because every moment of every day of your life, you are dying in this sense.
You are not the same person you are now that you were when you were five years old. That version of you is dead.
You are not the same person you are now that you were when you started reading this. That version of you is dead.
You are dying continuously.
To be alive means to change. Every time you change, the previous version no longer exists/is dead.
The only way to stop this is to stop changing, but to never change is another kind of death.
Sleep tight.
Quote from: GrinningYMIR on January 10, 2015, 08:52:26 PM
Actually there was a comic that was posted on here a long time ago that pretty much did exactly what you just described, I can't remember where it was but it was a pretty good comic, very existential.
I think the scariest thing that resembles that to me is being stuck in your own body, I.E being paralyzed and unable to move or speak. If you've ever seen Johnny gets his gun, that is probably my ultimate fear
Yeah, me too. And Johnny Got His Gun was, now that you mention it, the scariest book I ever read. For that is my biggest fear. Being stuck in a dead body with a live mind. Modern science is so good at keeping the body alive, that that could easily happen. Well, too easily for me, anyway. And I understand that some people who are put under for operations actually feel everything as though they were not sedated at all, but are paralyzed and can't respond in any way--that is one horrid scary thought!!!!
When I was a kid it occurred to me that what we experience as reality might be some kind of template construct and in truth we may not even have physical bodies or even brains as we know them. We could be nothing more then subjects of a not so ethical line of experimentation.
We might be completely powerless, ultimately having no control over what we experience, or physical sensation, or the passage of time, as all of these through which we define our realities could be utterly and hopelessly subjective and under the complete control of any... perhaps malevolent minds.
But after a while the whole thing seemed quite silly.
Quote from: Mike Cl on January 11, 2015, 03:03:10 PM
Yeah, me too. And Johnny Got His Gun was, now that you mention it, the scariest book I ever read. For that is my biggest fear. Being stuck in a dead body with a live mind. Modern science is so good at keeping the body alive, that that could easily happen. Well, too easily for me, anyway. And I understand that some people who are put under for operations actually feel everything as though they were not sedated at all, but are paralyzed and can't respond in any way--that is one horrid scary thought!!!!
To ease your fear of this happening, when it happens surgeons have a drug they give you that erases the memory. My dad was paralyzed and could only move his eyes before he died. I held his hand and told him I wouldn't let go and to close eyes, and it was OK to just go to sleep and he wouldn't be terrified any longer. He died and shit the bed. It haunted me for 20 years, and when I was playing Mass Effect game there was a scene where a girl gets stung and only her eyes moved that brought it all back to me. It was at night and it freaked me out. First time I had an MRI it was like being squeezed into a coffin and I freaked out. It doesn't bother me in the least now after having 5 of them. They have pills you take that totally eliminate the fight or flight response. Thank modern pharmaceuticals for this, not God! Solitary
I, remember that scene Solitary. Its going to be a bit more poignant when I play it again now I think. That is my biggest fear, to be like that. Its comforting to know that they can make it a bit easier if it happens. Sorry you had to go through it with your dad nonetheless
Quote from: Solitary on January 17, 2015, 11:00:50 PM
To ease your fear of this happening, when it happens surgeons have a drug they give you that erases the memory. My dad was paralyzed and could only move his eyes before he died. I held his hand and told him I wouldn't let go and to close eyes, and it was OK to just go to sleep and he wouldn't be terrified any longer. He died and shit the bed. It haunted me for 20 years, and when I was playing Mass Effect game there was a scene where a girl gets stung and only her eyes moved that brought it all back to me. It was at night and it freaked me out. First time I had an MRI it was like being squeezed into a coffin and I freaked out. It doesn't bother me in the least now after having 5 of them. They have pills you take that totally eliminate the fight or flight response. Thank modern pharmaceuticals for this, not God! Solitary
I can only imagine what you went through with you dad. I applaud your action--I like to think I'd have done the same given the chance. And thanks for the good news on the new drugs. That eases my mind a bit. I have been under for several procedures and operations and don't mind being under at all. If I have any real fear about operations and such, it would be that I go under and then awaken to realize that I am still under. Good to know that that is not likely any more.
Quote from: SNP1 on January 10, 2015, 08:49:16 PM
Mine is consciousness death. Not the, when you die what happens one.
Let's say that in 10 minutes the YOU that is reading this will die (the consciousness), but there will be a 100% clone copy of your consciousness in your body that is unaware that you died.
Or, let's say we get transporter like technology (like from Star Trek) that takes your atoms, sends them from location A to location B, and reassembles them. Is it you or a copy of you? How could anyone know if you, the you that is your consciousness right now, died and was replaced with a copy?
It is one reason why I somewhat wish that there was a "soul" which was our consciousness. I do not know why it scares me, but it does.
The thing is, for me, 'consciousness death' occurs every Planck second... from one discrete moment to the next your consciousness is different than it was. Every moment may as well be your first in existence, with your thoughts and memories pre-imprinted to be there.
Every moment, i am a different self, with only an illusionary continuum binding one self to the next. I was a different person when i started typing this post...
Quote from: Moloth on February 18, 2015, 02:13:58 PM
The thing is, for me, 'consciousness death' occurs every Planck second... from one discrete moment to the next your consciousness is different than it was. Every moment may as well be your first in existence, with your thoughts and memories pre-imprinted to be there.
Every moment, i am a different self, with only an illusionary continuum binding one self to the next. I was a different person when i started typing this post...
Hmmmm......but my fucking bills stay the same! Shit!
I suppose that this isnt strictly metaphysical, but here goes:
We havent detected life anywhere else in the vast, vast, VAST universe but this single tiny planet.
That really, really bothers me. I know that we've only been looking for, like, less than a century, but the mere notion that we might be it, as far as sentience, nay, life itself, is concerned, gives me the heebie jeebies.
I'm afraid that i will die without having evidence of life elsewhere in the cosmos. how lonely and pointless.
I suppose H.P. Lovecraft would be vindicated, though.
Quote from: Moloth on February 18, 2015, 04:49:24 PM
I suppose that this isnt strictly metaphysical, but here goes:
We havent detected life anywhere else in the vast, vast, VAST universe but this single tiny planet.
That really, really bothers me. I know that we've only been looking for, like, less than a century, but the mere notion that we might be it, as far as sentience, nay, life itself, is concerned, gives me the heebie jeebies.
I'm afraid that i will die without having evidence of life elsewhere in the cosmos. how lonely and pointless.
I suppose H.P. Lovecraft would be vindicated, though.
I've often thought about that. I would be strange Earth was the only place life took place in the entire universe. Lately we have found that life exists in environments too toxic to support life--bottom of the lightless oceans, in boiling chemical vents on the surface of the planet, and other places--that support the notion that life exists everywhere it can. What it looks like and where it is located is another matter. But I think it is only a matter of time and technology before we find it. And I would be willing to bet that life of some sort will be found on the moon of Europa.
But when we do find life, that will have no impact upon any purpose I may feel I have here and now. Nor will it make me less lonely (not that I'm lonely now). The only purpose I serve is what I deem my purpose to be. God, my parents, my neighbors, my boss, my wife, my children, my society cannot define my purpose--that is up to me and only me. So, if you want a purpose, find it.
Quote from: Mike Cl on February 18, 2015, 05:31:45 PM
I've often thought about that. I would be strange Earth was the only place life took place in the entire universe. Lately we have found that life exists in environments too toxic to support life--bottom of the lightless oceans, in boiling chemical vents on the surface of the planet, and other places--that support the notion that life exists everywhere it can. What it looks like and where it is located is another matter. But I think it is only a matter of time and technology before we find it. And I would be willing to bet that life of some sort will be found on the moon of Europa.
But when we do find life, that will have no impact upon any purpose I may feel I have here and now. Nor will it make me less lonely (not that I'm lonely now). The only purpose I serve is what I deem my purpose to be. God, my parents, my neighbors, my boss, my wife, my children, my society cannot define my purpose--that is up to me and only me. So, if you want a purpose, find it.
Oh, i have purpose in my life, but i'm talking more about a cosmic perspective. Its simply a mater of scale.
The chemistry of life is basically everywhere we look. the odds that earth is the only life-bearing planet, according to all i know, is so vanishingly small as to barely consider. However, as a skeptic and scientifically-minded person, i cant simply believe without real evidence
Quote from: Moloth on February 18, 2015, 06:30:09 PM
Oh, i have purpose in my life, but i'm talking more about a cosmic perspective. Its simply a mater of scale.
The chemistry of life is basically everywhere we look. the odds that earth is the only life-bearing planet, according to all i know, is so vanishingly small as to barely consider. However, as a skeptic and scientifically-minded person, i cant simply believe without real evidence
Yeah, know what you mean. I do 'believe' that life exists elsewhere. But there is no scientific facts to back that up yet, so it remains a belief. Instead of trying to kill everybody who does not believe the way the US does, and fund scientific endeavors--like going to Europa--we would be light years better off.
I find the Brain-in-a-Vat hypothesis quite scary.
Quote from: Sal1981 on February 19, 2015, 09:17:46 AM
I find the Brain-in-a-Vat hypothesis quite scary.
Really?
I counter it with this:
I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.
I am free, no matter what rules surround me.
If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them.
I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.
--Robert A. Heinlein
Basically, it doesnt matter what the nature of external reality is, i am still real and have agency because of my choices.
Robert A. Heinlein! Love his stuff! I grok it.
Not exactly why I find it scary.
If the universe is some sort of simulation, or we're just playthings for some external unseen force, you'd never know when the simulation ends.
I think people hopelessly follow the herd instinct
and when someone doesn't follow the instinct, they gather with other people who don't and form a herd that doesn't believe in herds