I am not an atheist. In-fact, I am a firm believer in gods and stuff like that.
HOWEVER: I support Richard Dawkins and his efforts to fight back the evangelicals and other religious extremists (even though I might call myself an extremist in what I am convinced in).
I support him and his efforts, because my beliefs are not tied up to the world we are living in. My religion is more like... let me put it this way:
Imagine someone who has lived his entire life inside a box. He knows what is in it, and how wide it is. But he never knows if there is an entire world outside the box, or, if there IS a world, how it looks like.
But he can imagine one that is. He believe that there is a world outside the box, even though he has no evidence.
This is typical religious thinking though. The difference between me, and militant evangelists though, is that I don't force my beliefs upon others. My religious rules are not applicable to anyone else, only to me. And, btw. I won't accept converts ;)
It's like if there are 3 people inside the box, and one of them has this idea about the world outside the box, but won't let others share his idea.
My religion* dies with me.
That's the difference between me, and other religious people.
* - "religion". It implies something that is ordered and communal. It surely can't be, since its members count as 1. Not even two. But one.
Welcome aboard mediumaevum! I think that we all here think outside the box. You think you are too, but you are not. In the box, or bubble, if you prefer, is where you are still at in your thinking. I understand what you are getting at, but all you are doing is moving from inside the box to the outside thinking it is something new, it isn't, you are still in the box looking from the inside at a mirror reflecting the inside. I support Richard Dawkins because he has evidence from reality, not just wild speculations with no evidence. I can think like you do and convince myself that UFO's are flying saucers from outer space. Religion, all aspects of it, are still thinking inside the box, with no coinciding with reality outside the box. Solitary
If you believe your religion to be true why wouldn't you want others to share your belief. I can understand why one might not believe in missionary work. What I don't understand is why you wouldn't share your views and be accepting of those who think your religion is of value.
Quote from: FlyingSpaghettiMonster on November 23, 2014, 01:01:31 PM
If you believe your religion to be true why wouldn't you want others to share your belief. I can understand why one might not believe in missionary work. What I don't understand is why you wouldn't share your views and be accepting of those who think your religion is of value.
That is a good question that I would like to answer. But apparently, I shouldn't.
I actually just wrote my entire belief system, and then deleted it all again, before posting this.
My religion is my privacy, and I should NOT reveal my privacy to the public.
My concerns and issues are mine. Not yours.
It also occurs to my mind, that I should stop talking politics and religion, unless it is criticism and source-critics of religions.
Quote from: Solitary on November 23, 2014, 11:51:10 AM
Welcome aboard mediumaevum! I think that we all here think outside the box. You think you are too, but you are not. In the box, or bubble, if you prefer, is where you are still at in your thinking. I understand what you are getting at, but all you are doing is moving from inside the box to the outside thinking it is something new, it isn't, you are still in the box looking from the inside at a mirror reflecting the inside. I support Richard Dawkins because he has evidence from reality, not just wild speculations with no evidence. I can think like you do and convince myself that UFO's are flying saucers from outer space. Religion, all aspects of it, are still thinking inside the box, with no coinciding with reality outside the box. Solitary
You have to reflect upon yourself before you can reflect upon others.
Welcome. Do you believe in the Rapture? If so, can I have your car after you Rapture?
Quote from: mediumaevum on November 23, 2014, 02:40:36 PM
You have to reflect upon yourself before you can reflect upon others.
What makes you think I haven't? You are a troll and I reflect on your past being here dodo.
Quote from: Solitary on November 23, 2014, 03:54:39 PM
What makes you think I haven't? You are a troll and I reflect on your past being here dodo.
I am not a troll.
And I did not say YOU did not reflect upon yourself.
EDIT: It was an error I made. I should have written:
"One should reflect upon oneself before reflecting upon others".
Please explain who you are addressing this to if it isn't me:
QuoteYou have to reflect upon yourself before you can reflect upon others.
You're a troll that's been here before, and it will come out sooner or later.
Quote from: Solitary on November 23, 2014, 04:37:22 PM
Please explain who you are addressing this to if it isn't me
Me. And just about everyone.
I was refering to the fact that people can't think outside the box if they don't reflect upon their own world view.
I am starting from scratch. Maybe I don't think out of the box right now, but maybe I will in the future.
Quote
You're a troll that's been here before, and it will come out sooner or later.
I have not been here before with any other user than this one I am using now.
Does your spiritual belief include virgins in the afterlife?
You're not from Turkey are you? Solitary
Mediumaevum has been on here for more than a year, from September of 2013. I'm not aware of any banishments or warnings. He/she might or might not be a flake, but I think you're being a bit harsh, Sol. I've mistakenly called people trolls, but if so, let them hang themselves. Don't get yourself in a jam with accusations.
Quote from: stromboli on November 23, 2014, 06:39:28 PM
Does your spiritual belief include virgins in the afterlife?
No. Well, I don't know what the afterlife includes at all, if there even exist one.
Believing in deities, to me, does not neccessarily mean there has to be an afterlife.
Quote from: Solitary on November 23, 2014, 07:54:29 PM
You're not from Turkey are you? Solitary
I am Danish, from Denmark, born, brought up and lived in Denmark my entire life with Danish parents, danish grandparents all traced back to long time in history.
No, I am not from Turkey... how did you get that idea?
Actually, I have never hidden my nationality on this forum, especially in political discussions about welfare or even religion.
If you want further proof of my nationality, så lad det komme:
Rød grød med fløde smager godt, og SKAL laves med ribs og solbær, og må IKKE indeholde jordbær, og skal have en gelé-agtig konsistens!
Quote from: mediumaevum on November 23, 2014, 02:36:47 PM
My religion is my privacy, and I should NOT reveal my privacy to the public.
My concerns and issues are mine. Not yours.
That's actually the complete opposite way I look at it. I agree with you in that forcing one's thoughts and way on living on other who would rather not conform is in general a bad thing. Definitely in religious terms.
And you also don't HAVE to reveal your privacy to the public.
But you are more than allowed to, as there is no harm in making your thoughts be known. And if you think your arguments hold any sway or your idea's are logical and can stand on your own, you're definitely more than welcome to. If a conviction you bring forth is totally retarded, you're welcome to put it forth aswell. The public will just debunk convictions like those through honest and open discussion. Actually, if you don't take part in the open market space of ideas, you run the most risk of falling short of personal growth.
It may seem like a fine line sometimes. But forcing others to do what you want them to, I agree; not cool. Telling the public what you are convinced is true, cool.
Quote from: mediumaevum on November 23, 2014, 10:21:21 AM
I am not an atheist. In-fact, I am a firm believer in gods and stuff like that.
I didn't know that before. However, I haven't followed your posts with a great deal of interest. It always seemed like you wanted people to react to you as if you had something to say, but you would beat around the bush without taking a position most of the time. I sensed a great deal of gamesmanship at worst, or perhaps just an inability to communicate, but I wasn't ready to expend much energy on a dialog with you, and after a while, I quit bothering to open your threads. I may not even come back to this one. And I'm not interested in what your version of religion is. Everyone thinks their religious perception is special and stands apart from the other crap, but it's all just silly make up stuff.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on November 24, 2014, 04:52:23 AM
That's actually the complete opposite way I look at it. I agree with you in that forcing one's thoughts and way on living on other who would rather not conform is in general a bad thing. Definitely in religious terms.
And you also don't HAVE to reveal your privacy to the public.
But you are more than allowed to, as there is no harm in making your thoughts be known. And if you think your arguments hold any sway or your idea's are logical and can stand on your own, you're definitely more than welcome to. If a conviction you bring forth is totally retarded, you're welcome to put it forth aswell. The public will just debunk convictions like those through honest and open discussion. Actually, if you don't take part in the open market space of ideas, you run the most risk of falling short of personal growth.
It may seem like a fine line sometimes. But forcing others to do what you want them to, I agree; not cool. Telling the public what you are convinced is true, cool.
*censored*
Sorry, I had to censor this reply. I am sorry for any inconvenience.
Look dude, I myself am not particularly interested in your particular beliefs. Especially not if you seem so eager to share snippets yet reluctant to paint the whole picture. Once again, you don't HAVE to reveal your privacy to the public. But if you really don't want to, the best way to do this is to not bring it up at all. Not to act like a teenager on facebook going: "Life is pain." And then when someone asks what the teen means, go: "I don't want to talk about it."
But if you're afraid that merely stating your beliefs will get you banned, know we've got a few religious people on this site. Like CP and that new person who joined (sorry forget the name) and isn't part of organized religion yet does belief in a god and such. People get banned on this site, yeah I've seen quite a few. But they weren't banned for being religious. They were banned for being assholes, prolethysers and trolls.
If this site does ban you merely for stating your beliefs, then fuck us. And you shouldn't even want to be on this forum. But, if you do get banned, that's not going to be the reason. The reason will be more something among the lines of you acting like a attention-seeking troll. What else are we supposed to think when you state something like 'I rarely do prayers. Rather, God prays to me.' and that being the only thing you wish to make clear about your religious views?
My advice to you is that if you wish to share any thoughts and ideas, you should be prepared to explain them and back them up. If you don't want to; fine to me. But then don't bring them up. Because doing the thing you are doing now is exactly what pisses people off. Also, I advice you not to mention your personal issues in this way in the future. People that truly dislike you can use it to write you off or troll the shit out of you. Other people don't care seeing as an argument stands on it's own merrits not those of the one who proclaims it. And even others will see it as a cowardly attempt to protect yourself from further criticism, whether or not it is actually uttered for that reason. If you wish to talk about your personal issues and frustrations regarding therapists I'm sure you can find some people to support you. But again don't just bring it up out of nowhere and say it's a taboo subject for you to talk about.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on November 24, 2014, 06:09:08 AM
Look dude, I myself am not particularly interested in your particular beliefs. Especially not if you seem so eager to share snippets yet reluctant to paint the whole picture. Once again, you don't HAVE to reveal your privacy to the public. But if you really don't want to, the best way to do this is to not bring it up at all. Not to act like a teenager on facebook going: "Life is pain." And then when someone asks what the teen means, go: "I don't want to talk about it."
But if you're afraid that merely stating your beliefs will get you banned, know we've got a few religious people on this site. Like CP and that new person who joined (sorry forget the name) and isn't part of organized religion yet does belief in a god and such. People get banned on this site, yeah I've seen quite a few. But they weren't banned for being religious. They were banned for being assholes, prolethysers and trolls.
If this site does ban you merely for stating your beliefs, then fuck us. And you shouldn't even want to be on this forum. But, if you do get banned, that's not going to be the reason. The reason will be more something among the lines of you acting like a attention-seeking troll. What else are we supposed to think when you state something like 'I rarely do prayers. Rather, God prays to me.' and that being the only thing you wish to make clear about your religious views?
My advice to you is that if you wish to share any thoughts and ideas, you should be prepared to explain them and back them up. If you don't want to; fine to me. But then don't bring them up. Because doing the thing you are doing now is exactly what pisses people off. Also, I advice you not to mention your personal issues in this way in the future. People that truly dislike you can use it to write you off or troll the shit out of you. Other people don't care seeing as an argument stands on it's own merrits not those of the one who proclaims it. And even others will see it as a cowardly attempt to protect yourself from further criticism, whether or not it is actually uttered for that reason. If you wish to talk about your personal issues and frustrations regarding therapists I'm sure you can find some people to support you. But again don't just bring it up out of nowhere and say it's a taboo subject for you to talk about.
You are right.
Can I ask for this thread to be either deleted or locked?
I should not talk about my religion.
The thread does not need to be deleted or locked, it will go away from lack of participation. If you want to be thought of as relevant, post something relevant on another topic. Saying you have a belief or some spiritual component in your life and then not defining or describing it is just a vague and mildly annoying statement.
I think you need to first decide why you are even on the forum, because in all honesty I can't see a reason for you being here.
Quote from: stromboli on November 24, 2014, 12:15:52 PM
I think you need to first decide why you are even on the forum, because in all honesty I can't see a reason for you being here.
The reason I joined is because I can't discuss religion in religious forums.
A christian forum for instance, has strict rules regarding conforming and non-conforming to the canonized bible. Their rules explicitly states that you cannot say anything that goes against holy scripture. Which means you cannot discuss anything else than those "evil atheists" (everybody who are not a Christian is either an "evil atheist" or an islamist in their opinion).
That's why I thought this as a free place. But from my experience in here, people are pretty rude and don't hesitate calling me a troll even though I am not.
Accussations and stuff like that isn't good for me either. Instead of ONLY attacking my arguments or my statements, people also attack me as a person. That's where I draw the line.
It was a failure of me to present my religious views without fully presenting them anyway.
I'm sorry for any inconvenience this has caused. But I believe that everybody are better off without discussing my religion with me.
However, I would happily discuss other people's religions, pros, cons, arguments or lack thereof. Scripture, "holy" as well as non-canonized and so on.
I'm not trying to discourage you. I recommend you post opinions on other topics. Every forum has its own ebb and flow, so to speak. Get a feel of how we address issues and how we word them. I lurked here for months before finally joining, so I had a feel for the place and what to say. My feeling is that you need to learn to formalize your thought in a more orderly manner to present them as such.
Religion is murky stuff to begin with, and anything not considered mainstream even more so. we are taught to think in terms of stereotypes, so anything outside that becomes less clear. Stick around, lurk, but you will need some thickness of skin to be on here if you are a god believing soul, because for you, this constitutes enemy territory.
Quote from: stromboli on November 24, 2014, 02:26:11 PM
I'm not trying to discourage you. I recommend you post opinions on other topics. Every forum has its own ebb and flow, so to speak. Get a feel of how we address issues and how we word them. I lurked here for months before finally joining, so I had a feel for the place and what to say. My feeling is that you need to learn to formalize your thought in a more orderly manner to present them as such.
Religion is murky stuff to begin with, and anything not considered mainstream even more so. we are taught to think in terms of stereotypes, so anything outside that becomes less clear. Stick around, lurk, but you will need some thickness of skin to be on here if you are a god believing soul, because for you, this constitutes enemy territory.
A deist discussion board filled with people who only believe in what they believe in because a supposed deity told them to, and not because they feel or are convinced it truely is the right thing, because of arguments, or by moral or ethical standards, is even more hostile to people like me.
I prefer atheist forums then. Or better, a mix of the two.
Quote from: Solitary on November 23, 2014, 11:51:10 AM
I think that we all here think outside the box.
What box?