http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/02/1 ... tail=hide# (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/02/14/1187262/-All-time-low-for-the-right-Shouting-the-n-word-outside-of-an-elementary-school-Obama-was-visiting?detail=hide#)
QuoteIt's apparent to everyone by now that the so-called Tea Party will protest anything that Obama supports. Education for young child? Protest! So perhaps it wasn't surprising that a sizable crowd formed in protest. The signs featured are the usual hodge-podge of illiteracy and ignorance. However, what happened at the end of the engagement is what should really turn your stomach.
As Obama was prepared to leave, the protesters, riled up by a speaker with a megaphone, began to shout epithets at our Commander-in-Chief.
"You're a [n-word]!" one shouted.
"Go back to Kenya!"
Never mind that there were children there, being exposed to the hate, bigotry and ignorance that the American right has to offer. The administrators scrambled to shoo the children away, though undoubtedly some had heard the hurtful words that they were shouting.
I have a couple of sources at the engagement and I am working to get more information. To my knowledge, no one was arrested, though several people were trespassed off of the property. As I hear from the school coordinator and a friend who attended the event, I will update this diary with more information.
I know a couple of these people. they are scary dumb.
Sadly, this really isn't news. We've all known how they truly feel all along in spite of the Republican party's early attempts to cover it up and pretend it wasn't true. Hell, I can still remember the "We're not racist! We have a black guy!!!" arguments.
It's an odd revival of the anti-civil rights attitude prior to the 1960s. We may not have come as far as we thought.
Of course we have come as far as we think. The fact that the minority is vocal doesn't change that. Neither does the fact that the media thrives on controversy, which is easy to generate by spreading the opinions of vocal bigots. This is merely the side effect of our beloved first amendment. If we don't support the right of people to say terrible things, then we don't support free speech at all.
This is the same type of Rush Limbaugh mentality about pro football coaches. Blacks are fine at every level of play but don't have the skills or capability to coach at the pro level. We love blacks this much, but rise too high and you're a nigger.
What is this the 60's? Grow the fuck up people!
You stay classy, Tea Party.
Quote from: "BarkAtTheMoon"You stay classy, Tea Party.
Totally. Tea Party: proof that semi-literate racist white people do exist.
Quote from: "stromboli"Quote from: "BarkAtTheMoon"You stay classy, Tea Party.
Totally. Tea Party: proof that semi-literate racist white people do exist.
I thought that was axiomatic.
Where would a thread about the Tea Party be without this:
(//http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h321/SabrinaTheInkWitch/fdbda731.jpg)
Quote"You're a [n-word]!" one shouted.
"Go back to Kenya!"
Just another quick reminder America. The rest of the world can see this.
This is the face that you are presenting to the world.
It doesn't look good on you.
Quote from: "buttfinger"Of course we have come as far as we think. The fact that the minority is vocal doesn't change that. Neither does the fact that the media thrives on controversy, which is easy to generate by spreading the opinions of vocal bigots. This is merely the side effect of our beloved first amendment. If we don't support the right of people to say terrible things, then we don't support free speech at all.
Letting them say these things is one thing; but there's no need to give them this much attention.
Quote from: "Jason78"Quote"You're a [n-word]!" one shouted.
"Go back to Kenya!"
Just another quick reminder America. The rest of the world can see this.
This is the face that you are presenting to the world.
It doesn't look good on you.
No, it doesn't look good, and I think most American's are embarrassed by such behavior. That being said, we do have our share of bigots, but the racist tea party does offer a teaching tool for us to point out inappropriate behavior to our children. I'm optimistic (possibly incorrectly so), that the tea party is it's own worst enemy, and will create at least some positive backlash among Americans that will react by taking a stronger stand against racism and bigotry.
Quote from: "Plu"Quote from: "buttfinger"Of course we have come as far as we think. The fact that the minority is vocal doesn't change that. Neither does the fact that the media thrives on controversy, which is easy to generate by spreading the opinions of vocal bigots. This is merely the side effect of our beloved first amendment. If we don't support the right of people to say terrible things, then we don't support free speech at all.
Letting them say these things is one thing; but there's no need to give them this much attention.
In a way I agree with that. But this isn't just loons like WBC saying dumb shit, this is symptomatic of an all too common attitude within a major faction of one of the two major political parties. For that reason they should to be publically shamed and ostracized for it. Ought to be the GOP doing the shaming instead of Dems & Independents, though. They're the ones that should be most embarrassed by this since they're associated with the TP jackasses and let them take their party hostage.
Quote from: "BarkAtTheMoon"Quote from: "Plu"Quote from: "buttfinger"Of course we have come as far as we think. The fact that the minority is vocal doesn't change that. Neither does the fact that the media thrives on controversy, which is easy to generate by spreading the opinions of vocal bigots. This is merely the side effect of our beloved first amendment. If we don't support the right of people to say terrible things, then we don't support free speech at all.
Letting them say these things is one thing; but there's no need to give them this much attention.
In a way I agree with that. But this isn't just loons like WBC saying dumb shit, this is symptomatic of an all too common attitude within a major faction of one of the two major political parties. For that reason they should to be publically shamed and ostracized for it. Ought to be the GOP doing the shaming instead of Dems & Independents, though. They're the ones that should be most embarrassed by this since they're associated with the TP jackasses and let them take their party hostage.
It puts the Republican Party between a rock and a hard place. It forces the Republican Party more out of the mainstream. Right now, the GOP probably doesn't mind having them around too much. These people will vote Republican because they have limited choices.
Quote from: "Jason78"Quote"You're a [n-word]!" one shouted.
"Go back to Kenya!"
Just another quick reminder America. The rest of the world can see this.
This is the face that you are presenting to the world.
It doesn't look good on you.
People that thinks like them don't give a shit to rest of the world...
Quote from: "Mathias"Quote from: "Jason78"Quote"You're a [n-word]!" one shouted.
"Go back to Kenya!"
Just another quick reminder America. The rest of the world can see this.
This is the face that you are presenting to the world.
It doesn't look good on you.
People that thinks like them don't give a shit to rest of the world...
That's true.
It's not like racism is only a problem in the US, either. There's been quite a few instances recently of European football team fans yelling racist chants at opposing black players. The rest of the world can see that, too, and it's arguably bigger news because of the worldwide popularity of European football. That kind of shit doesn't happen in US pro leagues much at all as far as I know, and when it does the offenders are kicked out of the stadium immediately.
Quote from: "SGOS"No, it doesn't look good, and I think most American's are embarrassed by such behavior. That being said, we do have our share of bigots, but the racist tea party does offer a teaching tool for us to point out inappropriate behavior to our children. I'm optimistic (possibly incorrectly so), that the tea party is it's own worst enemy, and will create at least some positive backlash among Americans that will react by taking a stronger stand against racism and bigotry.
It's even worse when you've got elected officials echoing the hate speech of those bigots. Some Americans should be embarrassed by that. The rest should be horrified.
Quote from: "Jason78"It's even worse when you've got elected officials echoing the hate speech of those bigots. Some Americans should be embarrassed by that. The rest should be horrified.
Now that I completely agree with. Problem is, I have no say in the elections of almost every one of those embarrassing morons (with the exception of getting to vote against Christine O'Donnell). There are too many (gerrymandered) hick districts in hick states that vote idiots into Congress where they can ruin things for everyone, and there's very little that can be done about it.
Let them spout off. Put them center stage and let the public know JUST WHO THEY REALY ARE. They tossed the 2012 election away with the likes of spontaneous abortions, etc and the circus freak show primaries.. I hope they completely bury themselves in stupid.
Quote from: "Jason78"Quote from: "SGOS"No, it doesn't look good, and I think most American's are embarrassed by such behavior. That being said, we do have our share of bigots, but the racist tea party does offer a teaching tool for us to point out inappropriate behavior to our children. I'm optimistic (possibly incorrectly so), that the tea party is it's own worst enemy, and will create at least some positive backlash among Americans that will react by taking a stronger stand against racism and bigotry.
It's even worse when you've got elected officials echoing the hate speech of those bigots. Some Americans should be embarrassed by that. The rest should be horrified.
Most Republicans don't clearly echo the speech of the Tea Party. However, their silence in not condemning it is loud enough. That's embarrassing. Even the Tea Party, at least in the past, has gone out of it's way to claim they are not about racism. Although that claim might appear to be a questionable one. It's like saying, I'm not a racist, but... <insert some random comment against racial minorities>.
I think the Tea Party formed as a reaction to discredit the probable election of any Democrat after the disaster of the Bush Administration. Had a Republican been elected, I think they would have faded away, although they claim that's not true. It seems to me that for some odd reason, the Tea Party has attracted the most racist of the right wing types. It's like an infection that the Tea Party can't get rid of. But it's their own fault. During their formation, they seemed to welcome anyone who was noisy and offensive, as long as they were willing to out shout any liberal thought.
Quote from: "SGOS"Quote from: "Jason78"Quote from: "SGOS"No, it doesn't look good, and I think most American's are embarrassed by such behavior. That being said, we do have our share of bigots, but the racist tea party does offer a teaching tool for us to point out inappropriate behavior to our children. I'm optimistic (possibly incorrectly so), that the tea party is it's own worst enemy, and will create at least some positive backlash among Americans that will react by taking a stronger stand against racism and bigotry.
It's even worse when you've got elected officials echoing the hate speech of those bigots. Some Americans should be embarrassed by that. The rest should be horrified.
Most Republicans don't clearly echo the speech of the Tea Party. However, their silence in not condemning it is loud enough. That's embarrassing. Even the Tea Party, at least in the past, has gone out of it's way to claim they are not about racism. Although that claim might appear to be a questionable one. It's like saying, I'm not a racist, but... <insert some random comment against racial minorities>.
I think the Tea Party formed as a reaction to discredit the probable election of any Democrat after the disaster of the Bush Administration. Had a Republican been elected, I think they would have faded away, although they claim that's not true. It seems to me that for some odd reason, the Tea Party has attracted the most racist of the right wing types. It's like an infection that the Tea Party can't get rid of. But it's their own fault. During their formation, they seemed to welcome anyone who was noisy and offensive, as long as they were willing to out shout any liberal thought.
The fact that their own members don't speak up loud enough is what disturbs me. There are surely people within the group that condemn this. Where are their voices?
Quote from: "BarkAtTheMoon"Quote from: "Jason78"It's even worse when you've got elected officials echoing the hate speech of those bigots. Some Americans should be embarrassed by that. The rest should be horrified.
Now that I completely agree with. Problem is, I have no say in the elections of almost every one of those embarrassing morons (with the exception of getting to vote against Christine O'Donnell). There are too many (gerrymandered) hick districts in hick states that vote idiots into Congress where they can ruin things for everyone, and there's very little that can be done about it.
There's always euthanasia.
As I stated on the NRA enemies list "The NRA is on MY enemies list!" So I state on this thread:"The Tea Party is on MY enemies list."
Quote from: "stromboli"Quote from: "SGOS"The fact that their own members don't speak up loud enough is what disturbs me. There are surely people within the group that condemn this.
The people who condemn racism aren't in the TP or, for the most part, in the Republican Party.
Quote from: "PopeyesPappy"Quote from: "BarkAtTheMoon"Quote from: "Jason78"It's even worse when you've got elected officials echoing the hate speech of those bigots. Some Americans should be embarrassed by that. The rest should be horrified.
Now that I completely agree with. Problem is, I have no say in the elections of almost every one of those embarrassing morons (with the exception of getting to vote against Christine O'Donnell). There are too many (gerrymandered) hick districts in hick states that vote idiots into Congress where they can ruin things for everyone, and there's very little that can be done about it.
There's always euthanasia.
That's certainly worth looking in to.
It's long been obvious that both the birther "controversy" and the insistence on calling him Barack Hussein Obama have their roots in bigotry, the one racist, the other religious.
The Republicans are losing the next generation of voters, I think.
QuoteThe fact that their own members don't speak up loud enough is what disturbs me. There are surely people within the group that condemn this. Where are their voices?
I have a hard time blaming the bystanders as compared to the actual bigots.
Quote from: "ThePilgrim101"I have a hard time blaming the bystanders as compared to the actual bigots.
I don't. We (in general) have no problem blaming moderate Christians for not standing up to abortion-clinic bombers. We take no issue with calling out the moderate muslims who stand silently as suicide bombers murder dozens of innocent people in the market. Do we not have enough integrity to point the finger at those in our midst who silently abide bigotry?
Quote from: "Edmund Burke"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
Racism, and any other bigotry, should be disowned wherever it is noted.
I love how small minded you people are. You have preconceived notions that just show how much you love your liberal propaganda. Ahhh, and now that I've said that you are going to call me a right wing nut job and a racist. Please do, I could use a good laugh. The fact is neither Obama nor Romney were right for this country. You have members of congress breaking their oath simply because they are a lot of pussies that can't figure out how to solve an issue without wanting to scrap our Constitution. Then they feed you lies, you eat it up, and then shit all over the place without really doing any fact checks. This is the problem with this country, you have bunch of pansy ass fake intellectuals that think whatever they hear on the news is fact. They have these wonderful things called information sources you can find stuff on, one of my favorites to use when looking into candidates is to go read bills that are important to you and see how they voted. Read bills that they authored and see if they issues you agree or disagree with. If you continue to be intellectually lazy, those of us who do thos things and know our facts and discuss them with other intellectuals that can bring up real facts of their own will look down upon in disgust. So you go ahead and carry on thinking this is because he's black because one single dumbass used a racist term. You continue to thing that your favorite propaganda channel, paper, blog, or wherever you choose to lazily look for info isn't being biased. When all of a sudden you wake up and your grandchildren are wondering why they don't get to enjoy the same freedoms you did, well you will have no one to blame but yourselves. (There are certain people that I am most definitely not targeting this at, I'm sure those are the ones that will figure it out.)
What is to be expected from the teabaggers? Two things define them: stupidity and bigotry.
Quote from: "Atheon"What is to be expected from the teabaggers? Two things define them: stupidity and bigotry.
Seems to be going around.
Quote from: "Atheon"What is to be expected from the teabaggers? Two things define them: stupidity and bigotry.
Looks like I called it correctly.
Looks like we've got another troll here, folks.
You won't last long here, buddy. Stupidity is quickly squelched.
Quote from: "Atheon"Looks like we've got another troll here, folks.
You won't last long here, buddy. Stupidity is quickly squelched.
Just one more troll to add to the roll. And stupidity is clearly NOT squelched around here. It abounds in at least 3/4 of the posts on this site.
Quote from: "drunkenshoe"Did you even check the archives in this froum to see if that is the case or are you just one of those 'lazy people' you are talking about?
Don't need to. The content of these current responses shows that y'all got no facts to begin with. there is no need to read dozens of similarly unenlightened responses made in the past. This little circle-jerk you idiots have going on is enough reading to gain the necessary knowledge.
Quote from: "SGOS"It's an odd revival of the anti-civil rights attitude prior to the 1960s. We may not have come as far as we thought.
Sure we have. The civil rights movement just wasnt as widespread as people thought. Its not like in the 60's racism was annihilated. These people were always there. They just didn't get on TV.
Noe THERE is a smart post.
Quote from: "Nonsensei"Quote from: "SGOS"It's an odd revival of the anti-civil rights attitude prior to the 1960s. We may not have come as far as we thought.
Sure we have. The civil rights movement just wasnt as widespread as people thought. Its not like in the 60's racism was annihilated. These people were always there. They just didn't get on TV.
Thanks. I should have said, "We may not have come as far as 'I' thought." In fact, it's clear now that we haven't. The Tea Party has been a wake up call (for me).
Quote from: "drunkenshoe"This is not a 10 people only forum where evreybody is a copy of one type of person you can 'teach' what to think or say. There is a diversity here. Members are from very different corners of the planet and have different backgrounds. Calling people retarded because they don't agree with you, won't get you any audience. They will stop reading your posts or won't take anything you write seriously. Trust me, I have personal experiences and you have already proved in a few thread that you are not anything special.
this is ironic as shit because this forum IS a bunch of clones who start in with strawman arguments and ad-hominem attacks the moment someone disagrees. I'm only following suit. If you don't like this kind of behavior in n00bs, you shouldn't display it up-front.
Quote from: "buttfinger"Quote from: "drunkenshoe"Did you even check the archives in this froum to see if that is the case or are you just one of those 'lazy people' you are talking about?
Don't need to. The content of these current responses shows that y'all got no facts to begin with. there is no need to read dozens of similarly unenlightened responses made in the past. This little circle-jerk you idiots have going on is enough reading to gain the necessary knowledge.
I do not understand this sort of behavior you've chosen here? I don't understand it at all.
Quote from: "WitchSabrina"I do not understand this sort of behavior you've chosen here? I don't understand it at all.
just responding to the treatment I received from the get-go. Remember how in the other forum you mentioned how you gt pissed-off and then like to insult people? It's become clear that it's the norm around here. I'm just adjusting my style to fit the tone I found.
Quote from: "drunkenshoe"Really? You are the only one acting that way though.
Clearly you have a bias toward your friends. Not that it's surprising.
QuoteIt's actually very clear, your only problem is "Listen to me and agree wth me or you are retarded!"
You don't have to agree with me, just that your dissension need not contain insults up front, else you'll get them in return.
Though I've noticed you personally are much calmer than what is norm around here. I think I like you.
Well, I wouldn't block you. You're mostly civil.
Lol
You either wolf. You're aight.
Lmao, I should hope so!
Quote from: "stromboli"I know a couple of these people. they are scary dumb.
The Rick Copeland has a couple relatives like these folks. You're right. They're astonishingly stupid-- and let's call them what they are: terrified racists. They are stupid and they are cowardly. But this is no surprise. These are the same people who, in 2007-2008 put picture of Hussein in conjunction with fried chicken and pitchers of Kool-Aid...
Quote from: "buttfinger"Quote from: "drunkenshoe"Did you even check the archives in this froum to see if that is the case or are you just one of those 'lazy people' you are talking about?
Don't need to. The content of these current responses shows that y'all got no facts to begin with. there is no need to read dozens of similarly unenlightened responses made in the past. This little circle-jerk you idiots have going on is enough reading to gain the necessary knowledge.
Or, to save pixels, "of course I am".
Quote from: "drunkenshoe":shock: It's the forum norm NOT to like me. Do yo have any idea how many people have me on block? Stop it, right now! :lol:
I like you Shoe. Not only do I like you, but I want you. Unfortunately I know you'd just love me and leave me so I've resigned myself to life without you. :cry:
Pics or it didn't happen. One DailyKos article isn't enough.
I remember the rather famous non-incident during the passage of Obamacare where the Congressional Black Caucus walked straight through a group of Tea Party protesters followed by lots and lots of television cameras. The cameras did record lots of booing and jeering. The one thing the cameras did not record was all the racial epithets that the congressmen claimed to have heard.
Did I read in this topic that the US is the only place in the world with racism?
Use me for sex! I'm all yours.
I bet the white dude that calls Obama nigger is a christian .
It's amusing to see how people have to turn to personal insults instead of providing a legitimate argument to justify their protest... All while laughing with each other at how stupid dem communists are
Quote from: "Atheon"What is to be expected from the teabaggers? Two things define them: stupidity and bigotry.
I think that's a little overbroad there, myself. From my experience in both SoCal and Texas, they're a heterogeneous grouping of conservatives disgusted with the political process in this country, citizens concerned about illegal immigration, libertarians who think the government is overweening, paranoid freaks who've crawled out from their militia movements, Christians trying to rebrand their politicization of their religion, history buffs who fetishize the words of the Founders, and yes, some idiots and bigots.
I doubt they have more than the typical amount of the latter two, though.
Quote from: "leo"I bet the white dude that calls Obama nigger is a christian .
Thats not much of a bet since most people in this country are.
Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"Quote from: "Atheon"What is to be expected from the teabaggers? Two things define them: stupidity and bigotry.
and yes, some idiots and bigots.
I doubt they have more than the typical amount of the latter two, though.
Who knows, but they are the ones screaming the racial slurs. We don't hear that from the other two parties.
All of these "of course it happened, teabaggers are idiot racists" comments are amusing, especially since some of the occurred shortly after I wrote "pics or it didn't happen" and referenced the infamous non-event when Tea Party protesters didn't call the Congressional Black Caucus members racist names as they walked right through a demonstration hoping to get called names.
I've heard my step-father call the President that word, and tell me that his brain was too small to handle the job based on his race. When I pointed out that he was equally white and raised in a well to do white community and earned his degrees, step-bigot just made more excuses.
Quote from: "SGOS"Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"Quote from: "Atheon"What is to be expected from the teabaggers? Two things define them: stupidity and bigotry.
and yes, some idiots and bigots.
I doubt they have more than the typical amount of the latter two, though.
Who knows, but they are the ones screaming the racial slurs. We don't hear that from the other two parties.
Bigotry takes many different forms. I'm not justifying their idiocy, just saying that it is not unique to them.
Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"Quote from: "Atheon"What is to be expected from the teabaggers? Two things define them: stupidity and bigotry.
I think that's a little overbroad there, myself. From my experience in both SoCal and Texas, they're a heterogeneous grouping of conservatives disgusted with the political process in this country, citizens concerned about illegal immigration, libertarians who think the government is overweening, paranoid freaks who've crawled out from their militia movements, Christians trying to rebrand their politicization of their religion, history buffs who fetishize the words of the Founders, and yes, some idiots and bigots.
I doubt they have more than the typical amount of the latter two, though.
So... idiots and bigots.
Indeed, I am inclined to believe that idiots and bigots are more the jello than the oil.
Quote from: "Jason_Harvestdancer"Pics or it didn't happen. One DailyKos article isn't enough.
I remember the rather famous non-incident during the passage of Obamacare where the Congressional Black Caucus walked straight through a group of Tea Party protesters followed by lots and lots of television cameras. The cameras did record lots of booing and jeering. The one thing the cameras did not record was all the racial epithets that the congressmen claimed to have heard.
I find it incredibly sad that I had to go all the way to page 3 (4?) to see this response.
DailyKos makes Fox News look credible, and you all eat this shit up without any audio, video, pics, or anything other than hearsay on fucking DailyKos for god's sake.
~edit: yeah page 4
Quote from: "Shiranu"So... idiots and bigots.
Just because someone has views I don't agree with doesn't make them automatically idiots. YMMV.
The bigotry of some of them seems plain, and that does mark those individuals as idiots.
Quote from: "aitm"Indeed, I am inclined to believe that idiots and bigots are more the jello than the oil.
It wasn't the best wording I've ever used in my life; bigots are clearly a subset of idiots, as my last post makes plain.
Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"Quote from: "Shiranu"So... idiots and bigots.
Just because someone has views I don't agree with doesn't make them automatically idiots. YMMV.
The bigotry of some of them seems plain, and that does mark those individuals as bigots.
There are plenty of people I disagree with whom I don't consider idiots. The problem was only the first group aren't inherently idiots.
Quote from: "Shiranu"There are plenty of people I disagree with whom I don't consider idiots. The problem was only the first group aren't inherently idiots.
So you're comfortable labeling entire groups as "idiots"? If that's the case, I'll skip, thanks.
Also, I'm unclear why you think Libertarians or theists are inherently idiots.
I took the time to look up "bigot" in the Oxford Dictionaries:
QuoteDefinition of bigoted
adjective
having or revealing an obstinate belief in the superiority of one's own opinions and a prejudiced intolerance of the opinions of others:
a bigoted group of reactionaries
a bigoted article
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definitio ... sh/bigoted (http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/bigoted)
I don't think the Tea Party has a lock on that quality, do you?
Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"Quote from: "Shiranu"There are plenty of people I disagree with whom I don't consider idiots. The problem was only the first group aren't inherently idiots.
So you're comfortable labeling entire groups as "idiots"? If that's the case, I'll skip, thanks.
No, just 51%+ of them.
Quote from: "Shiranu"Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"Quote from: "Shiranu"There are plenty of people I disagree with whom I don't consider idiots. The problem was only the first group aren't inherently idiots.
So you're comfortable labeling entire groups as "idiots"? If that's the case, I'll skip, thanks.
No, just 51%+ of them.
51% of whom? Could you be clear?
Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"Quote from: "Atheon"What is to be expected from the teabaggers? Two things define them: stupidity and bigotry.
I think that's a little overbroad there, myself. From my experience in both SoCal and Texas, they're a heterogeneous grouping of conservatives disgusted with the political process in this country, citizens concerned about illegal immigration, libertarians who think the government is overweening, paranoid freaks who've crawled out from their militia movements, Christians trying to rebrand their politicization of their religion, history buffs who fetishize the words of the Founders, and yes, some idiots and bigots.
I doubt they have more than the typical amount of the latter two, though.
The above mentioned groups, minus the first.
So you've met "51+%" of those groups? Pardon my skepticism, but I ain't buying it.
Quote from: "HitchensFan"Quote from: "Jason_Harvestdancer"Pics or it didn't happen. One DailyKos article isn't enough.
I remember the rather famous non-incident during the passage of Obamacare where the Congressional Black Caucus walked straight through a group of Tea Party protesters followed by lots and lots of television cameras. The cameras did record lots of booing and jeering. The one thing the cameras did not record was all the racial epithets that the congressmen claimed to have heard.
I find it incredibly sad that I had to go all the way to page 3 (4?) to see this response.
DailyKos makes Fox News look credible, and you all eat this shit up without any audio, video, pics, or anything other than hearsay on fucking DailyKos for god's sake.
~edit: yeah page 4
What's funny is that in the comments on the article people are criticizing it for being unsourced saying things like "this is what gives us at Kos a bad name." It only took 3 hours for a comment like that over there, but people are still saying "racist teabaggers" over here.
(//http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-pyY8gjMMiQ4/Tp8EGTa7nEI/AAAAAAAAFl8/E3ZUz00kyRc/s1600/Tea+Party+Racist+signs.jpg)
(//http://cdnl.complex.com/mp/620/400/80/0/bb/1/ffffff/b7bc683066ea043af0598fb2ef60e549/images_/assets/CHANNEL_IMAGES/CITY_GUIDE/2012/10/whitehouse.jpg)
(//http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h321/SabrinaTheInkWitch/131668954658.gif)
before I weep for humanity.
Don't forget these Jmpty.
(//http://www.frugal-cafe.com/public_html/frugal-blog/frugal-cafe-blogzone/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/2010-tea-party-infiltrator-2.jpg)
(//http://www.frugal-cafe.com/public_html/frugal-blog/frugal-cafe-blogzone/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/2010-tea-party-infiltrator-1.jpg)
(//http://www.noisyroom.net/blog/infiltrator3.jpg)
(//http://www.frugal-cafe.com/public_html/frugal-blog/frugal-cafe-blogzone/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/2010-tea-party-infiltrator-3.jpg)
(//http://www.moonbattery.com/texas-infiltrator.jpg)
Jeeze Jason, when are you gonna stop crying over something that probably never existed outside of your own idealized imagination and accept the fact that the only thing keeping the "tea party" together now(if you could have ever called such a thing a cohesive group in any sense ) is some wispy and fleeting sense that black people shouldn't be president backed up by the American right wing political machine using it for its own diabolical plans? Do something else for a change.
maybe they really meant "obama is my nigga"...kinda like "jesus is my nigga"....life is strange when yer a stranger.
Quote from: "Jason_Harvestdancer"Don't forget these Jmpty.
[ Image (//http://www.frugal-cafe.com/public_html/frugal-blog/frugal-cafe-blogzone/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/2010-tea-party-infiltrator-2.jpg) ]
[ Image (//http://www.frugal-cafe.com/public_html/frugal-blog/frugal-cafe-blogzone/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/2010-tea-party-infiltrator-1.jpg) ]
[ Image (//http://www.noisyroom.net/blog/infiltrator3.jpg) ]
[ Image (//http://www.frugal-cafe.com/public_html/frugal-blog/frugal-cafe-blogzone/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/2010-tea-party-infiltrator-3.jpg) ]
[ Image (//http://www.moonbattery.com/texas-infiltrator.jpg) ]
Ah yes, the old "we're being infiltrated by leftist/union spies" because this is a Bond movie.
Quote from: "WitchSabrina"Quote from: "buttfinger"Quote from: "drunkenshoe"Did you even check the archives in this froum to see if that is the case or are you just one of those 'lazy people' you are talking about?
Don't need to. The content of these current responses shows that y'all got no facts to begin with. there is no need to read dozens of similarly unenlightened responses made in the past. This little circle-jerk you idiots have going on is enough reading to gain the necessary knowledge.
I do not understand this sort of behavior you've chosen here? I don't understand it at all.
I believe it's a case of
(//http://rlv.zcache.com/i_love_goading_tee_shirts-r4a25d26b76d24fa5bf5de6c93d72bf9e_804gy_512.jpg)
(//http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTZJJB36aBMrHwCIawT2SituMOtzu3oikLivrqvXkwR_g1QJoQm)
We would all do well to be skeptical of hyper-partisanism, especially our own. Can't believe I have to say that here.
You're all just going to immediately jump to sweeping generalizations, huh? Just more proof that from time to time we all toss reason and level-headedness aside if it's a subject in which we're emotionally invested.
The "tea party" (I will never capitalize it or say or write it without irony or sarcasm because the real Tea Partiers were committing acts of treason against the crown and risking their own lives) are just a bunch of people who either say they want to reform government but really just want to elect Republicans, or people who actually do want to reform government but have been duped by Republicans. It's worth a laugh to be sure, but grow up - it's not motivated by racism at its core. That's a simpleton's view - you're all better than that.
They're the other though, so I guess whatever nasty things are said are not only true, but an invitation for us to insert our own unfounded nasty things. I'm a little irritated that I'm having to defend the "tea party" :roll: to a certain extent here.
Of course I'm going to rant to the other side of this because I love playing devil's advocate so much.
Obviously there are definitely a lot of racial components that are a significant driving force behind the Tea Party. A good majority of those associated with the Tea Party are just plainly ignorant. But to be completely honest (and this is where I am going to draw some criticism) but I think that the left actually holds just as much responsibility as the right does when it comes to why American culture still holds some racism.
Personally I dislike the way our culture has treated offensive language, not just racial epithets but swear words and such also. We hold double standards for a lot of our language that just seems odd. We allow words to have a stranglehold on how we live our lives and go out of our way to avoid some words because they go against social norms. For example I can say in public "we had sex" or "we slept together" but I can't say "we fucked" despite the fact that they all mean the same thing. Similarly with racial epithets you are discouraged from saying the word "nigger", but somehow saying "the N-word" is socially acceptable, even though again, they mean the same thing.
In my opinion, the left has severely misconstrued the difference between offensive language stemmed from ignorance, and bigotry stemmed from hate. Instead both have been labeled as hate speech and racist, effectively forcing the the actual discussion of the offensive language underneath the floorboards. From that point you cannot have a rational discussion about this language. Instead it stays under wraps, until the original ignorance brews into actual racism.
Now the right has also put their grubby hands in the cookie jar too don't get me wrong. Part of their strategy mid 20th century was the Southern Strategy, in which the started appealing the white christian southerners, which has made up the majority of their base since. And part of this strategy was to instill fear in minorities and place the blame of society's mishaps on them (i.e. crime). This fear mongering produced an extremely solid base for the Republican Party.
So there is definitely still an issue of racism in America, and I really think the only way to really fix the issue is to confront it.
Anyways, just my two cents. Attack away.
Quote from: "commonsense822"Of course I'm going to rant to the other side of this because I love playing devil's advocate so much.
Obviously there are definitely a lot of racial components that are a significant driving force behind the Tea Party. A good majority of those associated with the Tea Party are just plainly ignorant. But to be completely honest (and this is where I am going to draw some criticism) but I think that the left actually holds just as much responsibility as the right does when it comes to why American culture still holds some racism.
Personally I dislike the way our culture has treated offensive language, not just racial epithets but swear words and such also. We hold double standards for a lot of our language that just seems odd. We allow words to have a stranglehold on how we live our lives and go out of our way to avoid some words because they go against social norms. For example I can say in public "we had sex" or "we slept together" but I can't say "we fucked" despite the fact that they all mean the same thing. Similarly with racial epithets you are discouraged from saying the word "nigger", but somehow saying "the N-word" is socially acceptable, even though again, they mean the same thing.
In my opinion, the left has severely misconstrued the difference between offensive language stemmed from ignorance, and bigotry stemmed from hate. Instead both have been labeled as hate speech and racist, effectively forcing the the actual discussion of the offensive language underneath the floorboards. From that point you cannot have a rational discussion about this language. Instead it stays under wraps, until the original ignorance brews into actual racism.
Now the right has also put their grubby hands in the cookie jar too don't get me wrong. Part of their strategy mid 20th century was the Southern Strategy, in which the started appealing the white christian southerners, which has made up the majority of their base since. And part of this strategy was to instill fear in minorities and place the blame of society's mishaps on them (i.e. crime). This fear mongering produced an extremely solid base for the Republican Party.
So there is definitely still an issue of racism in America, and I really think the only way to really fix the issue is to confront it.
Anyways, just my two cents. Attack away.
Could you explain a little more? I'd like to understand where the left is going wrong in your eyes.
thanks
Quote from: "WitchSabrina"Quote from: "commonsense822"Of course I'm going to rant to the other side of this because I love playing devil's advocate so much.
Obviously there are definitely a lot of racial components that are a significant driving force behind the Tea Party. A good majority of those associated with the Tea Party are just plainly ignorant. But to be completely honest (and this is where I am going to draw some criticism) but I think that the left actually holds just as much responsibility as the right does when it comes to why American culture still holds some racism.
Personally I dislike the way our culture has treated offensive language, not just racial epithets but swear words and such also. We hold double standards for a lot of our language that just seems odd. We allow words to have a stranglehold on how we live our lives and go out of our way to avoid some words because they go against social norms. For example I can say in public "we had sex" or "we slept together" but I can't say "we fucked" despite the fact that they all mean the same thing. Similarly with racial epithets you are discouraged from saying the word "nigger", but somehow saying "the N-word" is socially acceptable, even though again, they mean the same thing.
In my opinion, the left has severely misconstrued the difference between offensive language stemmed from ignorance, and bigotry stemmed from hate. Instead both have been labeled as hate speech and racist, effectively forcing the the actual discussion of the offensive language underneath the floorboards. From that point you cannot have a rational discussion about this language. Instead it stays under wraps, until the original ignorance brews into actual racism.
Now the right has also put their grubby hands in the cookie jar too don't get me wrong. Part of their strategy mid 20th century was the Southern Strategy, in which the started appealing the white christian southerners, which has made up the majority of their base since. And part of this strategy was to instill fear in minorities and place the blame of society's mishaps on them (i.e. crime). This fear mongering produced an extremely solid base for the Republican Party.
So there is definitely still an issue of racism in America, and I really think the only way to really fix the issue is to confront it.
Anyways, just my two cents. Attack away.
Could you explain a little more? I'd like to understand where the left is going wrong in your eyes.
thanks
Look, essentially I think the left has been quick to pull the trigger on racial language. For example I am sure that
plenty of us know someone from an older generation that has some bigoted views. And when they have kids, generally that attitude towards other races is imprinted upon those kids. Now the parents are already set in their ways, there isn't much you are going to be able to do to change their opinions on the matter, but the kids and younger adults are where a difference can be made. Often if someone makes a racial remark they are immediately ostracized, and called racist. Even if the remark they made came not from racism but ignorance.
Now that being said the way our brain works is fascinating. No one and I mean
NO ONE thinks they are a morally bad person. Your brain justifies everything you do so you can lead a psychologically fit life. When your beliefs are attacked and you are ostracized your brain doesn't usually think "hey I might be wrong here." It thinks of a way to justify your beliefs, to align with your moral code. And then what happens? They talk to other people that were put in similar situations or have the same views on race and they further enforce each others ideals and justifications. And so what happens is the original ignorance which can be mended, turns into full fledged racism.
Quote from: "commonsense822"Quote from: "WitchSabrina"Quote from: "commonsense822"Of course I'm going to rant to the other side of this because I love playing devil's advocate so much.
Obviously there are definitely a lot of racial components that are a significant driving force behind the Tea Party. A good majority of those associated with the Tea Party are just plainly ignorant. But to be completely honest (and this is where I am going to draw some criticism) but I think that the left actually holds just as much responsibility as the right does when it comes to why American culture still holds some racism.
Personally I dislike the way our culture has treated offensive language, not just racial epithets but swear words and such also. We hold double standards for a lot of our language that just seems odd. We allow words to have a stranglehold on how we live our lives and go out of our way to avoid some words because they go against social norms. For example I can say in public "we had sex" or "we slept together" but I can't say "we fucked" despite the fact that they all mean the same thing. Similarly with racial epithets you are discouraged from saying the word "nigger", but somehow saying "the N-word" is socially acceptable, even though again, they mean the same thing.
In my opinion, the left has severely misconstrued the difference between offensive language stemmed from ignorance, and bigotry stemmed from hate. Instead both have been labeled as hate speech and racist, effectively forcing the the actual discussion of the offensive language underneath the floorboards. From that point you cannot have a rational discussion about this language. Instead it stays under wraps, until the original ignorance brews into actual racism.
Now the right has also put their grubby hands in the cookie jar too don't get me wrong. Part of their strategy mid 20th century was the Southern Strategy, in which the started appealing the white christian southerners, which has made up the majority of their base since. And part of this strategy was to instill fear in minorities and place the blame of society's mishaps on them (i.e. crime). This fear mongering produced an extremely solid base for the Republican Party.
So there is definitely still an issue of racism in America, and I really think the only way to really fix the issue is to confront it.
Anyways, just my two cents. Attack away.
Could you explain a little more? I'd like to understand where the left is going wrong in your eyes.
thanks
Look, essentially I think the left has been quick to pull the trigger on racial language. For example I am sure that plenty of us know someone from an older generation that has some bigoted views. And when they have kids, generally that attitude towards other races is imprinted upon those kids. Now the parents are already set in their ways, there isn't much you are going to be able to do to change their opinions on the matter, but the kids and younger adults are where a difference can be made. Often if someone makes a racial remark they are immediately ostracized, and called racist. Even if the remark they made came not from racism but ignorance.
Now that being said the way our brain works is fascinating. No one and I mean NO ONE thinks they are a morally bad person. Your brain justifies everything you do so you can lead a psychologically fit life. When your beliefs are attacked and you are ostracized your brain doesn't usually think "hey I might be wrong here." It thinks of a way to justify your beliefs, to align with your moral code. And then what happens? They talk to other people that were put in similar situations or have the same views on race and they further enforce each others ideals and justifications. And so what happens is the original ignorance which can be mended, turns into full fledged racism.
Okaaay.
So the solution(s) to correcting horrid attitudes reflecting discrimination would be ___________________?
If pointing out to someone "Whoa that's racist" is only going to make them MORE racist ---
erm.......
yeah I don't know where we're headed here.
My grandparents were racists. I found it pretty hard to swallow when i figured that out around age 9 or 10 buuut... I happened to Know them - and I knew them for GOOD people. Had a person of ethic persuasion dropped over in their front yard - they'd have rushed out to help in any way they could. So - No - that really DID belong to that generation. My mother's generation there was improvement - as there was with My generation..... and so on.
But I'm not sure ignoring it makes it any better when it raises it's ugly fucking head (?)
And I'm not sure how that belongs to the "left" or "Liberals" (?)
the belonging to liberals part was what I was hoping you'd get to............. that's all.
Quote from: "commonsense822"In my opinion, the left has severely misconstrued the difference between offensive language stemmed from ignorance, and bigotry stemmed from hate.
This is a dicey claim, I think. Ignorance and bigotry are so entwined, I'm not sure there is a difference relevant to this conversation.
Quote from: "commonsense822"Instead both have been labeled as hate speech and racist, effectively forcing the actual discussion of the offensive language underneath the floorboards.
I don't think I agree. This discussion is precisely about offensive language. It doesn't become inoffensive simply because it can be explained away by bigotry.
Quote from: "commonsense822"Now the right has also put their grubby hands in the cookie jar too... And part of this strategy was to instill fear in minorities and place the blame of society's mishaps on them (i.e. crime). This fear mongering produced an extremely solid base for the Republican Party.
Whatever the actual goals of the Tea Party are, you've nailed a fundamental aspect of its strategy. At the height of Tea Party media coverage, it identified itself as the great intimidator, showing up at town meetings held my various politicians, and simply shouting them down so they couldn't speak. They created an atmosphere of chaos. By throwing in racial slurs, showing up to rally with guns, and magnifying their affected loss of self control, they intensified their intimidation and fear factor. They acted like if they didn't get their way, the next step will be outright rioting and revolution by force.
Perhaps they actually have a good idea or two, or maybe they have nothing at all. It really doesn't make any difference if they are going to act like... what's the word? assholes? Our current leadership are big enough assholes. That's part of the problem. Bigger assholes aren't going to make it better.
Quote from: "commonsense822"Attack away.
Done! :D
Quote from: "SGOS"Quote from: "commonsense822"In my opinion, the left has severely misconstrued the difference between offensive language stemmed from ignorance, and bigotry stemmed from hate.
This is a dicey claim, I think. Ignorance and bigotry are so entwined, I'm not sure there is a difference relevant to this conversation.
Quote from: "commonsense822"Instead both have been labeled as hate speech and racist, effectively forcing the actual discussion of the offensive language underneath the floorboards.
I don't think I agree. This discussion is precisely about offensive language. It doesn't become inoffensive simply because it can be explained away by bigotry.
Quote from: "commonsense822"Now the right has also put their grubby hands in the cookie jar too... And part of this strategy was to instill fear in minorities and place the blame of society's mishaps on them (i.e. crime). This fear mongering produced an extremely solid base for the Republican Party.
Whatever the actual goals of the Tea Party are, you've nailed a fundamental aspect of its strategy. At the height of Tea Party media coverage, it identified itself as the great intimidator, showing up at town meetings held my various politicians, and simply shouting them down so they couldn't speak. They created an atmosphere of chaos. By throwing in racial slurs, showing up to rally with guns, and magnifying their affected loss of self control, they intensified their intimidation and fear factor. They acted like if they didn't get their way, the next step will be outright rioting and revolution by force.
Perhaps they actually have a good idea or two, or maybe they have nothing at all. It really doesn't make any difference if they are going to act like... what's the word? assholes? Our current leadership are big enough assholes. That's part of the problem. Bigger assholes aren't going to make it better.
Quote from: "commonsense822"Attack away.
Done! :D
Good post SGOS. I'm not attacking him but more trying to put these puzzle pieces together.
Is he assuming that the farther liberal left is void of racism and if so doesn't that point to the fact that the Tea Part Right *is* more racist? So in earnest by making that distinction he calls attention to TeaPartRight = racism without much help. And is his call against the Liberal left as having spurred more racism by pointing it out just a little bit sideways?
So - let's put me in the Liberal left. Done. Am I not supposed to point at racism and say "hey that blows!" or I'll just help it happen More if I do so? I've made racism Worse by saying "hey that's racist"?
If it's wrong - we should ignore it and maybe it'll go away?
Sorry I don't get it.
Quote from: "WitchSabrina"I'm not attacking him but more trying to put these puzzle pieces together.
... Am I not supposed to point at racism and say "hey that blows!" or I'll just help it happen More if I do so? I've made racism Worse by saying "hey that's racist"?
If it's wrong - we should ignore it and maybe it'll go away?
Sorry I don't get it.
And for good reason.
I'm still not sure what he was trying to say.
Quote from: "Sleeper"We would all do well to be skeptical of hyper-partisanism, especially our own. Can't believe I have to say that here.
You're all just going to immediately jump to sweeping generalizations, huh? Just more proof that from time to time we all toss reason and level-headedness aside if it's a subject in which we're emotionally invested.
The "tea party" (I will never capitalize it or say or write it without irony or sarcasm because the real Tea Partiers were committing acts of treason against the crown and risking their own lives) are just a bunch of people who either say they want to reform government but really just want to elect Republicans, or people who actually do want to reform government but have been duped by Republicans. It's worth a laugh to be sure, but grow up - it's not motivated by racism at its core. That's a simpleton's view - you're all better than that.
They're the other though, so I guess whatever nasty things are said are not only true, but an invitation for us to insert our own unfounded nasty things. I'm a little irritated that I'm having to defend the "tea party" :roll: to a certain extent here.
I think you're an optimist and too generous with people.
One unsourced unsupported article by someone who appears to be trolling DailyKos and we now have a 7 page thread.
Alright so I may have not exactly expressed myself as coherently as I had wished to. Forgive me, sometimes it's hard to gather my thoughts before morning coffee. Anyways, I'm going to really try and expand this topic because this is actually something I'm pretty passionate about discussing. So I apologize ahead of time because this might be a pretty long post.
Quote from: "WitchSabrina"Okaaay.
So the solution(s) to correcting horrid attitudes reflecting discrimination would be ___________________?
If pointing out to someone "Whoa that's racist" is only going to make them MORE racist ---
erm.......
yeah I don't know where we're headed here.
Ideally the solution would be to bring the conversation of how racial dialogue affects our community, society, and various cultures to the forefront of the public mind. And that would best be achieved via education. Take a deeper look into the various cultures and what they are comprised of.
As for pointing out a comment that is racial, it's all about how the issue is broached. For example, when I was in 7th grade in my history class we were studying about Asia. I had been reading an older book (I was kinda nerdy) that had used 'Oriental' to describe someone that was Asian. So in the course of this class I decided to use my newly found flashy word and said something along the lines of "The Oriental people at the time...." After I had finished my sentence, my teacher calmly told me that that term was not politically correct and we didn't use it anymore. I didn't feel ashamed, I didn't feel ostracized, I felt informed. I was ignorant of the issue, and I was corrected. However imagine if that teacher had instead told me that the comment was racist. This is where the magic of brain psychology comes in. Your brain has to justify that you are not a racist to keep within your own moral code. So if she says what you said was racist, and you have to justify that your not, then your brain will most likely do so by thinking that she must be wrong. And there ignorance is solidified.
Quote from: "WitchSabrina"My grandparents were racists. I found it pretty hard to swallow when i figured that out around age 9 or 10 buuut... I happened to Know them - and I knew them for GOOD people. Had a person of ethic persuasion dropped over in their front yard - they'd have rushed out to help in any way they could. So - No - that really DID belong to that generation. My mother's generation there was improvement - as there was with My generation..... and so on.
But I'm not sure ignoring it makes it any better when it raises it's ugly fucking head (?)
And I'm not sure how that belongs to the "left" or "Liberals" (?)
the belonging to liberals part was what I was hoping you'd get to............. that's all.
I'm in the same boat there as you. We have pictures of my grandmother protesting with signs the desegregation of Boston schools. And I too am positive that she would help someone of another race if they needed help. But she, similarly like your grandparents was racist because of previous misconceptions that she had fostered by those with similar views, and further enforced by those attacking them. Essentially bigotry bred forth from ignorance. The idea is that to create any real change an actual discussion has to take place, rather than just the impressions of everyone's own personal views.
I want to stress though that I am not saying that it is the left or liberals that are solely responsible for the prevalence of racism in America. I am saying that both sides have blindly beaten the topics with sticks. In the political realm the left's zero tolerance attitude towards racism has fostered hidden pockets of deep racism in the country, even though the reason for doing so was done with good intentions. The right on the other hand has capitalized on those pockets of racism, in many ways purposefully. If you were to ask me which side
IS the most racist I am confident that I could tell you objectively that the right is certainly so. But if you were to ask me which side is more responsible for racism still being prevalent I would say they share an almost equal responsibility.
Quote from: "SGOS"Quote from: "commonsense822"In my opinion, the left has severely misconstrued the difference between offensive language stemmed from ignorance, and bigotry stemmed from hate.
This is a dicey claim, I think. Ignorance and bigotry are so entwined, I'm not sure there is a difference relevant to this conversation.
They are definitely entwined, but it is because ignorance leads to bigotry. Here are definitions of the two terms.
[center:1b9qgbzb]big·ot·ry [big-uh-tree]
noun, plural big·ot·ries.
1. stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own.[/center:1b9qgbzb]
[center:1b9qgbzb]ig·no·rance [ig-ner-uhns]
noun
the state or fact of being ignorant; lack of knowledge, learning, information, etc.
ANDig·no·rant [ig-ner-uhnt]
adjective
1. lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned: an ignorant man.
2. lacking knowledge or information as to a particular subject or fact: ignorant of quantum physics.
3. uninformed; unaware.
4. due to or showing lack of knowledge or training: an ignorant statement.[/center:1b9qgbzb]
You can clearly see how ignorance can lead to bigotry. The misconceptions you hold in your ignorance forms into bigotry after repeated attacks against your moral character. This 'Progression of Racism' is similar to a cancer. When it's in the early stages of ignorance it is easier to kill. But once it progresses into full bigotry it is almost futile.
Quote from: "SGOS"Quote from: "commonsense822"Instead both have been labeled as hate speech and racist, effectively forcing the actual discussion of the offensive language underneath the floorboards.
I don't think I agree. This discussion is precisely about offensive language. It doesn't become inoffensive simply because it can be explained away by bigotry.
Yes
this discussion is about offensive language but that is honestly because we are an atheist forum. Not to sound elitist, but facing facts here, atheists are amongst some of most rational, logical, open minded people. That is why we are able to have this discussion and why I am comfortable voicing my opinion here. Most of us here are able to look objectively at things because we have taken an empirical approach to our lives and are therefore able to approach topics such as this one in a scholarly method. This topic would not survive on your more popular social mediums (i.e. YouTube comments, Yahoo! Answers, etc) without getting completely overpopulated with answers such as "I don't care niggars are gross and should die!" or "You degenerate racist scum, I hope you die you sick prick!" Those are both real comments I have seen.
Quote from: "SGOS"Quote from: "commonsense822"Now the right has also put their grubby hands in the cookie jar too... And part of this strategy was to instill fear in minorities and place the blame of society's mishaps on them (i.e. crime). This fear mongering produced an extremely solid base for the Republican Party.
Whatever the actual goals of the Tea Party are, you've nailed a fundamental aspect of its strategy. At the height of Tea Party media coverage, it identified itself as the great intimidator, showing up at town meetings held my various politicians, and simply shouting them down so they couldn't speak. They created an atmosphere of chaos. By throwing in racial slurs, showing up to rally with guns, and magnifying their affected loss of self control, they intensified their intimidation and fear factor. They acted like if they didn't get their way, the next step will be outright rioting and revolution by force.
Perhaps they actually have a good idea or two, or maybe they have nothing at all. It really doesn't make any difference if they are going to act like... what's the word? assholes? Our current leadership are big enough assholes. That's part of the problem. Bigger assholes aren't going to make it better.
The Republican Party has been using the Southern Strategy for a while, the Tea Party is kind of the mutant offspring of equal parts ignorance, bigotry, and fear paired with a hyper-partisan political field (in my opinion).
Again sorry for the extreme length of this post, like I said this is a topic I have a fair interest in and am pretty passionate about.
I don't doubt that some Tea Partiers are motivated by the fact that we have a black president. I don't think it's a coincidence that it took off in early 2009.
I also don't think that all Tea Partiers are racist yokels.
Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"I don't doubt that some Tea Partiers are motivated by the fact that we have a black president. I don't think it's a coincidence that it took off in early 2009.
I also don't think that all Tea Partiers are racist yokels.
It supposedly started with Ron Paul's 2008 presidential campaign, but it has looooooong since been co-opted out of that.
Quote from: "Sleeper"Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"I don't doubt that some Tea Partiers are motivated by the fact that we have a black president. I don't think it's a coincidence that it took off in early 2009.
I also don't think that all Tea Partiers are racist yokels.
It supposedly started with Ron Paul's 2008 presidential campaign, but it has looooooong since been co-opted out of that.
Well, there's been a long strain of libertarianism in American politics. I think the "co-opting" is partly a matter of conservatives fleeing a Republican party that is full of shit, and partly a matter of the media focusing on the more sensational images and rhetoric of the new adherents.
Quote from: "commonsense822"Alright so I may have not exactly expressed myself as coherently as I had wished to. Forgive me, sometimes it's hard to gather my thoughts before morning coffee. Anyways, I'm going to really try and expand this topic because this is actually something I'm pretty passionate about discussing. So I apologize ahead of time because this might be a pretty long post.
Quote from: "WitchSabrina"Okaaay.
So the solution(s) to correcting horrid attitudes reflecting discrimination would be ___________________?
If pointing out to someone "Whoa that's racist" is only going to make them MORE racist ---
erm.......
yeah I don't know where we're headed here.
Ideally the solution would be to bring the conversation of how racial dialogue affects our community, society, and various cultures to the forefront of the public mind. And that would best be achieved via education. Take a deeper look into the various cultures and what they are comprised of.
As for pointing out a comment that is racial, it's all about how the issue is broached. For example, when I was in 7th grade in my history class we were studying about Asia. I had been reading an older book (I was kinda nerdy) that had used 'Oriental' to describe someone that was Asian. So in the course of this class I decided to use my newly found flashy word and said something along the lines of "The Oriental people at the time...." After I had finished my sentence, my teacher calmly told me that that term was not politically correct and we didn't use it anymore. I didn't feel ashamed, I didn't feel ostracized, I felt informed. I was ignorant of the issue, and I was corrected. However imagine if that teacher had instead told me that the comment was racist. This is where the magic of brain psychology comes in. Your brain has to justify that you are not a racist to keep within your own moral code. So if she says what you said was racist, and you have to justify that your not, then your brain will most likely do so by thinking that she must be wrong. And there ignorance is solidified.
Quote from: "WitchSabrina"My grandparents were racists. I found it pretty hard to swallow when i figured that out around age 9 or 10 buuut... I happened to Know them - and I knew them for GOOD people. Had a person of ethic persuasion dropped over in their front yard - they'd have rushed out to help in any way they could. So - No - that really DID belong to that generation. My mother's generation there was improvement - as there was with My generation..... and so on.
But I'm not sure ignoring it makes it any better when it raises it's ugly fucking head (?)
And I'm not sure how that belongs to the "left" or "Liberals" (?)
the belonging to liberals part was what I was hoping you'd get to............. that's all.
I'm in the same boat there as you. We have pictures of my grandmother protesting with signs the desegregation of Boston schools. And I too am positive that she would help someone of another race if they needed help. But she, similarly like your grandparents was racist because of previous misconceptions that she had fostered by those with similar views, and further enforced by those attacking them. Essentially bigotry bred forth from ignorance. The idea is that to create any real change an actual discussion has to take place, rather than just the impressions of everyone's own personal views.
I want to stress though that I am not saying that it is the left or liberals that are solely responsible for the prevalence of racism in America. I am saying that both sides have blindly beaten the topics with sticks. In the political realm the left's zero tolerance attitude towards racism has fostered hidden pockets of deep racism in the country, even though the reason for doing so was done with good intentions. The right on the other hand has capitalized on those pockets of racism, in many ways purposefully. If you were to ask me which side IS the most racist I am confident that I could tell you objectively that the right is certainly so. But if you were to ask me which side is more responsible for racism still being prevalent I would say they share an almost equal responsibility.
Quote from: "SGOS"Quote from: "commonsense822"In my opinion, the left has severely misconstrued the difference between offensive language stemmed from ignorance, and bigotry stemmed from hate.
This is a dicey claim, I think. Ignorance and bigotry are so entwined, I'm not sure there is a difference relevant to this conversation.
They are definitely entwined, but it is because ignorance leads to bigotry. Here are definitions of the two terms.
[center:289ui6wh]big·ot·ry [big-uh-tree]
noun, plural big·ot·ries.
1. stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own.[/center:289ui6wh]
[center:289ui6wh]ig·no·rance [ig-ner-uhns]
noun
the state or fact of being ignorant; lack of knowledge, learning, information, etc.
AND
ig·no·rant [ig-ner-uhnt]
adjective
1. lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned: an ignorant man.
2. lacking knowledge or information as to a particular subject or fact: ignorant of quantum physics.
3. uninformed; unaware.
4. due to or showing lack of knowledge or training: an ignorant statement.[/center:289ui6wh]
You can clearly see how ignorance can lead to bigotry. The misconceptions you hold in your ignorance forms into bigotry after repeated attacks against your moral character. This 'Progression of Racism' is similar to a cancer. When it's in the early stages of ignorance it is easier to kill. But once it progresses into full bigotry it is almost futile.
Quote from: "SGOS"Quote from: "commonsense822"Instead both have been labeled as hate speech and racist, effectively forcing the actual discussion of the offensive language underneath the floorboards.
I don't think I agree. This discussion is precisely about offensive language. It doesn't become inoffensive simply because it can be explained away by bigotry.
Yes this discussion is about offensive language but that is honestly because we are an atheist forum. Not to sound elitist, but facing facts here, atheists are amongst some of most rational, logical, open minded people. That is why we are able to have this discussion and why I am comfortable voicing my opinion here. Most of us here are able to look objectively at things because we have taken an empirical approach to our lives and are therefore able to approach topics such as this one in a scholarly method. This topic would not survive on your more popular social mediums (i.e. YouTube comments, Yahoo! Answers, etc) without getting completely overpopulated with answers such as "I don't care niggars are gross and should die!" or "You degenerate racist scum, I hope you die you sick prick!" Those are both real comments I have seen.
Quote from: "SGOS"Quote from: "commonsense822"Now the right has also put their grubby hands in the cookie jar too... And part of this strategy was to instill fear in minorities and place the blame of society's mishaps on them (i.e. crime). This fear mongering produced an extremely solid base for the Republican Party.
Whatever the actual goals of the Tea Party are, you've nailed a fundamental aspect of its strategy. At the height of Tea Party media coverage, it identified itself as the great intimidator, showing up at town meetings held my various politicians, and simply shouting them down so they couldn't speak. They created an atmosphere of chaos. By throwing in racial slurs, showing up to rally with guns, and magnifying their affected loss of self control, they intensified their intimidation and fear factor. They acted like if they didn't get their way, the next step will be outright rioting and revolution by force.
Perhaps they actually have a good idea or two, or maybe they have nothing at all. It really doesn't make any difference if they are going to act like... what's the word? assholes? Our current leadership are big enough assholes. That's part of the problem. Bigger assholes aren't going to make it better.
The Republican Party has been using the Southern Strategy for a while, the Tea Party is kind of the mutant offspring of equal parts ignorance, bigotry, and fear paired with a hyper-partisan political field (in my opinion).
Again sorry for the extreme length of this post, like I said this is a topic I have a fair interest in and am pretty passionate about.
Good post CS and thank you for taking the time to explain yourself further. A lot of what you say makes sense.
cheers
Quote from: "WitchSabrina"Good post CS and thank you for taking the time to explain yourself further. A lot of what you say makes sense.
+ What she said.
Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"Quote from: "Sleeper"Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"I don't doubt that some Tea Partiers are motivated by the fact that we have a black president. I don't think it's a coincidence that it took off in early 2009.
I also don't think that all Tea Partiers are racist yokels.
It supposedly started with Ron Paul's 2008 presidential campaign, but it has looooooong since been co-opted out of that.
Well, there's been a long strain of libertarianism in American politics. I think the "co-opting" is partly a matter of conservatives fleeing a Republican party that is full of shit, and partly a matter of the media focusing on the more sensational images and rhetoric of the new adherents.
Here's my point:
Sarah Palin: "I'm a 'tea party' candidate!"
Michelle Bachman: "I'm a 'tea party' candidate!"
Newt Gingrich: "I'm a 'tea party' candidate!"
Lindsay Graham:"I'm a 'tea party' candidate!"
'tea party' member 1: "I'm for Sarah Palin!"
'tea party' member 2: "I'm for Michelle Bachman!"
'tea party' member 3: "I'm for Newt Gingrich!"
'tea party' member 4: "I'm for Lindsay Graham!"
Since '08 what are all the murmurs we've been hearing from the right? "'tea party!' 'tea party!' 'tea party!'" And who was their candidate last year? Mitt Romney. Give me a fucking break. It's been co-opted by the opportunists who know when they're losing a crowd. Just like the left with the Occupiers.
My original point was at this very moment, on some conservative forum similar to this one, someone's posting a topic about an OWS protest where some people were... I don't know... sucking embryos out of women's uteri and throwing them away. There is absolutely no evidence to support it but, just like here, some of the members are amen!-ing it without question. The only difference is the color of the political shades over their eyes.
Quote from: "Sleeper"Here's my point:
Sarah Palin: "I'm a 'tea party' candidate!"
Michelle Bachman: "I'm a 'tea party' candidate!"
Newt Gingrich: "I'm a 'tea party' candidate!"
Lindsay Graham:"I'm a 'tea party' candidate!"
'tea party' member 1: "I'm for Sarah Palin!"
'tea party' member 2: "I'm for Michelle Bachman!"
'tea party' member 3: "I'm for Newt Gingrich!"
'tea party' member 4: "I'm for Lindsay Graham!"
Since '08 what are all the murmurs we've been hearing from the right? "'tea party!' 'tea party!' 'tea party!'" And who was their candidate last year? Mitt Romney. Give me a fucking break. It's been co-opted by the opportunists who know when they're losing a crowd. Just like the left with the Occupiers.
My original point was at this very moment, on some conservative forum similar to this one, someone's posting a topic about an OWS protest where some people were... I don't know... sucking embryos out of women's uteri and throwing them away. There is absolutely no evidence to support it but, just like here, some of the members are amen!-ing it without question. The only difference is the color of the political shades over their eyes.
Sure, there's no disagreement here with your points. It's a general pattern in politics, too, that revolutions are subverted and folded back into the mainstream of thought, so that sooner or later it becomes what it fought against. The Tea Party is not exempt from this general pattern.
Being a tad libertarian myself, I just don't like that the TP is taken seriously. It's basically the newest nickname for the Christian Right (TM). The main thing the 2 party system is good at is keeping it a 2 party system.
My main gripe with the teaparty is that they elect people based on their same 'values.' This leads to christians getting into office and pushing the bible legislation. The teaparty was started by Big Tabacco and the Koch Bros to protect profits. It backfired big time.
I hope the crazies all get lumpy balls so they have to demand universal health care for all, poetic justice is what it would be