https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lqnd6nf0PQ&list=UU7YOGHUfC1Tb6E4pudI9STA
A common argument among religious folks against us Atheist is that their faith in religion is the same as our faith in science. While it is true that a small amount of faith is required to believe just about anything I explain in this video why faith in science simply isn't the same as faith in religion.
Absolutely zero faith is required to believe in science. Science draws conclusions from repeatable testing and those conclusions are ALWAYS subject to revision as new testing methods become available. Therefore science whenever science makes a claim about what is true, it is understood that what science is actually saying is this thing is true so far as we know right now and could change some time later.
I can't say for all atheists, but I have trust in science, not faith.
This is a straw man fallacy. Science does not require faith.
Now thrown in the fallacy of equivocation. Faith can be colloquially used to describe understanding the process of science, but it absolutely not the blind faith of religion. It's not even in the same ball park. It's something different entirely.
"Belief" is another word Christians love to equivocate. When challenged, they like to ask, "Well, what do you believe?" Yes secularists believe many things, but they don't necessarily shit their pants over some brain fart for which there is no evidence.
The uses and misuses of the word "faith". When I get up in the morning, I have "faith" that no meteorites will strike my house, or when my wife says that "breakfast is ready", it is. That's because there is little probability that a meteorite will strike my house, and there is a high probability that my wife is reliable. And I know this from past experience, which is a compilation of evidence. OTOH, when a theist says, "I have faith that God exists", he has no evidence to back up that faith. Just his misguided, gullible and naive perception.
Quote from: josephpalazzo on October 12, 2014, 04:20:56 PM
The uses and misuses of the word "faith". When I get up in the morning, I have "faith" that no meteorites will strike my house, or when my wife says that "breakfast is ready", it is. That's because there is little probability that a meteorite will strike my house, and there is a high probability that my wife is reliable. And I know this from past experience, which is a compilation of evidence. OTOH, when a theist says, "I have faith that God exists", he has no evidence to back up that faith. Just his misguided, gullible and naive perception.
I have "faith" that aeronautical engineers know what they're doing. I flew to DC and back last week, didn't die in a crash. My "faith" is informed and can be altered when presented by new information.
Hey, faith can move mountains. As long as you've got heavy equipment and explosives.
Quote from: stromboli on October 13, 2014, 09:04:29 AM
Hey, faith can move mountains. As long as you've got heavy equipment and explosives.
At the end of this thought process is that people have gathered evidence on how to work that equipment and explosives to achieve the desired effect - move mountains. In fact, we all do that when we act out on every day details. You're sick, you go see a doctor, your teeth hurt, you go see a dentist, and so on, all those are acts of faith but based on a mountain of evidence. It's only when it comes to God and religion that people somehow go against this deeper thought process, and why they can't answer the question, where's the evidence. Suddenly, they start to obfuscate, even to the point of negating their own inclinations. They can't step out of their own cornered thoughts and see how ridiculous they have suddenly become.
Faith is trust in God with no reliable evidence, Faith in science is trust in science with reliable evidence. I have faith no gods, or God, exists because there is no reliable evidence, and how can I have faith in something that doesn't exist? :wall:
Like many words, the word "faith" has more than one definition. Indeed, the various definitions are quite different from each other - so much so that when using this word "faith", it's easy to get confused, it's easy to equivocate and it's easy to miscommunicate.
Quote from: sdelsolray on October 13, 2014, 10:29:46 PM
Like many words, the word "faith" has more than one definition. Indeed, the various definitions are quite different from each other - so much so that when using this word "faith", it's easy to get confused, it's easy to equivocate and it's easy to miscommunicate.
Faith:
Quote1.
complete trust or confidence in someone or something.
"this restores one's faith in politicians"
synonyms: trust, belief, confidence, conviction; More
antonyms: mistrust
2.
strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.
synonyms: religion, church, sect, denomination, (religious) persuasion, (religious) belief, ideology, creed, teaching, doctrine
"she gave her life for her faith"
Are you speaking like, metaphorically?
I used the word "faith" instead of "trust" just for the sake of comparison and the title. I wouldn't really say that I have faith in science since the level of trust and repeated positive results puts it beyond that which puts it at the level of trust.
Quote from: MagetheEntertainer on October 14, 2014, 02:43:50 PM
I used the word "faith" instead of "trust" just for the sake of comparison and the title. I wouldn't really say that I have faith in science since the level of trust and repeated positive results puts it beyond that which puts it at the level of trust.
Then I would suggest using trust instead in the future. The word faith has a very strong association with religious blind belief and using it in another sense can be confusing or misleading.
I'd agree with sdelsolray on this, I think all down to context is how its used really. The same could be said when someone says they 'trust in god', as however you could say you have faith in your doctornot implying god but just in the person.
Still, I can understand it being a negative connotation, or something a christian would use against you to 'prove' you believe in gawd.
Quote from: MagetheEntertainer on October 11, 2014, 07:59:36 PMA common argument among religious folks against us Atheist is that their faith in religion is the same as our faith in science.
You are correct, this is a terrible argument by theists. But it's worth noting that many of the more educated theists won't make this kind of argument. It tends to be a blue collar Christian who heard it from someone else and doesn't really understand the semantics.
It's also worth noting that many atheists also define faith wrong when it comes to religion. I often hear atheists say that faith is "belief without evidence" when that's not what the word faith means in theology.
Quote from: Drummer Guy on October 14, 2014, 07:26:24 PM
You are correct, this is a terrible argument by theists. But it's worth noting that many of the more educated theists won't make this kind of argument. It tends to be a blue collar Christian who heard it from someone else and doesn't really understand the semantics.
It's also worth noting that many atheists also define faith wrong when it comes to religion. I often hear atheists say that faith is "belief without evidence" when that's not what the word faith means in theology.
Really? What does 'faith' mean in theology??
QuoteFaith - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faith
Wikipedia
https://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=hts&oq=&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4AVNB_enUS603US603&q=Faith
Faith is belief that is not based on proof. It can also be defined as confidence or trust in a person, thing, deity, view, or in the doctrines or teachings of a religion, ...
‎Faith (disambiguation) - ‎Faith in Christianity - ‎Saint Faith - ‎Crisis of faith
It's true that theists use any and all definitions of faith and can mean anything when they use it. They use it with unusual frequency and in many contexts. Abundant frequency in varying contexts is one of the earmarks of their life's devotion. But press a theist about why he believes Bible doctrine, he will invariably say it's faith (the first definition given in Wikipedia), and he will say it with a pride that comes with holding the concept in highest regard, as something that rises above mere reason, and a knowledge that he has worked hard to obtain. Protestant religions preach this definition of faith as the key than unlocks the gates of Heaven, and is of absolute necessity for their admittance.
Anyone who says this is not a primary definition of the Christian essence, probably is not paying attention.
But yes, they also sling the word around in haphazard fashion.
Quote from: SGOS on October 15, 2014, 05:22:26 AM
It's true that theists use any and all definitions of faith and can mean anything when they use it. They use it with unusual frequency and in many contexts. Abundant frequency in varying contexts is one of the earmarks of their life's devotion. But press a theist about why he believes Bible doctrine, he will invariably say it's faith (the first definition given in Wikipedia), and he will say it with a pride that comes with holding the concept in highest regard, as something that rises above mere reason, and a knowledge that he has worked hard to obtain. Protestant religions preach this definition of faith as the key than unlocks the gates of Heaven, and is of absolute necessity for their admittance.
I have experienced this from when I was a child first exposed to that vileness called christanity. And that exposure came in Alabama, and it was all but literally beaten into my head with a bible, that one must have a deep and abiding faith in the All Mighty Lord and Jesus in order to be saved. And that Satan came to you in the guise of reason. One must not be tempted to fall prey to Satan if one wants to be saved. This is one of the factors that keeps the bible-thumping christians so willfully ignorant (I call it stupid, for they refuse to learn). Reason not only does not make sense to them, it actually is the enemy. This is what frightens me about the current crop of Rep. fundamentalists and those that pander to them. It seems to me that my country, in many ways, is actually more stupid now than when I was a kid. Fundy's of all stripes are willfully ignorant and are frightening because of it.