Windows 8.1 represents an entirely new concept in marketing. I bought a new laptop which comes without a lot of stuff. No problem. I tried installing Microsoft Works from my older computer because I've already bought that, but of course, it's not backwards compatible. Microsoft wants to sell you Works again, and it's starting to look expensive. You don't buy it for a one time price. Now they want you to rent it month by month for $10 each month. Of course you've got access to the cloud, which you may not want, not for $10 a month anyway.
It looks to me like Windows 8.1 might be more about marketing new things or things you've already bought, but now at higher costs, and not so much about offering consumers helpful applications at reasonable prices. I haven't looked into buying much new stuff, but there appears to be thousands of apps you can buy. But unless this MS Works thing is unusual, it looks like computers may have gotten a lot more expensive.
If anyone had loaded MS Works onto Windows 8.1 so it's just there, and not something you pay for each month, I'd appreciate any information they might offer. I keep hearing about Linux. Is this what I need to do to avoid getting fleeced by Microsoft?
I switched over to open office, so can't help you there.
As for Microsoft price-gouging, I believe the expression is "rocks are rocky".
Quote from: Hydra009 on August 19, 2014, 12:19:12 PM
I switched over to open office, so can't help you there.
Actually, you might. I googled open office, and it looks like what I might want. I just need a word processor, and spreadsheets. In fact, the spreadsheets aren't a big deal, but I'm gunshy about downloading anything after that last little debacle with that solitaire game. LOL I take it that open office meets your needs?
Quote from: SGOS on August 19, 2014, 12:32:15 PM
Actually, you might. I googled open office, and it looks like what I might want. I just need a word processor, and spreadsheets. In fact, the spreadsheets aren't a big deal, but I'm gunshy about downloading anything after that last little debacle with that solitaire game. LOL I take it that open office meets your needs?
All I really need is a basic word processor just a tad better than notepad. So yeah, works fine. Certainly beats shelling out every month.
The problem with your Windows 8.1 is that it's not Windows 7
Sent from your mom
I prefer Libre Office, but Open Office is also great. Both open source office suites do everything MS Works does, and much more. They're much more like MS Office. And they can import Works files, and export files in most of the popular formats. And they're totally free, no strings attached.
Software "rental" might make sense for a business that needs the functionality of a certain kind of software for a short time, or if it turns out to be more economical after running the numbers, but I prefer paying once and not having to worry about yet another monthly charge.
^ This. All of it.
A lot of time, open source programs don't look too pretty, but holy shit there is a lot more features (and they are usually free).
This is no longer about being cheap or frugal. It's about fighting Microsoft. Just not letting them have their way with us.
Quote from: SGOS on August 19, 2014, 02:34:56 PM
This is no longer about being cheap or frugal. It's about fighting Microsoft. Just not letting them have their way with us.
I totally understand that standpoint. I recommend going to linux, unless you absolutely need something that relies on a propitiatory OS. Among other things, like a windows key that can be about 100+ bucks (that I don't have to worry about because I have tech friend that gave me a key), windows is super vulnerable to viruses and being hacked from info predators, not to mention the spying that Microsoft may or may not be doing on their part....
I know I've said this before on here to some degree, but while Linux is still able to be attacked by a virus or hacker, it's a LOT less likely. Plus because it's open source, anyone can look at the code for the OS and say "Hey there is something that does [name sneaky thing here] in this software." which makes developers a lot less likely to try something sneaky.
There is one thing and one thing only that I do (that I can think of anyway) that requires Windows. It's Microsoft Flight Simulator. In fact, it's the only reason I need a powerful gaming computer. I'm not a big fan of Windows. Never have been. I don't like having to upgrade every two or three years, especially when I'm happy with an older format. The only upgrade that ever seriously pleased me was Windows XP, and that's only because it replaced that turd of an OS, Windows Millennium, which crashed all the time.
you can try installing linux as a partition and seeing how Microsoft flight simulator runs through WINE. Some things work really well through wine and you'd never know the difference. I even got Warcraft 3 as well as Guild Wars 2 running flawlessly through WINE on linux.
Quote from: SGOS on August 19, 2014, 03:17:46 PM
There is one thing and one thing only that I do (that I can think of anyway) that requires Windows. It's Microsoft Flight Simulator. In fact, it's the only reason I need a powerful gaming computer. I'm not a big fan of Windows. Never have been. I don't like having to upgrade every two or three years, especially when I'm happy with an older format. The only upgrade that ever seriously pleased me was Windows XP, and that's only because it replaced that turd of an OS, Windows Millennium, which crashed all the time.
I imagine you could get around that with Linux. There's a couple of emulators and converters that you could use. WINE comes to mind first.
Eggs apparently beat me to it. Go the the WineHQ site and see if there are any tests for MSFS. Some programs won't run very well.
The information I looked up was old enough that Wine has asked for information from users about the current Wine combined with FSX. From what I read, Wine seemed to help some issues like long flights causing crashes to desktop. There were other complaints, however. Some sounding serious enough to negate the value. Some issues were surmised to be caused by graphics cards other than Nvidia. But the comments were all older than 10 years.
When was the latest MS flight simulator released? I noticed some open source flight simulators out there for linux. Maybe you could try one of those.
Quote from: SGOS on August 19, 2014, 04:02:00 PM
The information I looked up was old enough that Wine has asked for information from users about the current Wine combined with FSX. From what I read, Wine seemed to help some issues like long flights causing crashes to desktop. There were other complaints, however. Some sounding serious enough to negate the value. Some issues were surmised to be caused by graphics cards other than Nvidia. But the comments were all older than 10 years.
From my experience with WINE is that even the same exact computer build with the same exact OS can have a different experience running a program. In other words, you should probably just try it. Plus if the last complaint was 10 years ago, it's probably resolved by now.
Wipe away Win 8.1.
Install Win 7 professional and Libre Office.
Install Linux Mint on a second partition.
Live happily ever after.
The last MS flight simulator came out in 2006, but it didn't show up on the shelves until 2007. Then in 2009 Microsoft shut the project down after an extremely successful 20 year run, and left committed fans and online communities disappointed. The only thing comparable to it that is still left is X Plane, which I've never tried.
Until the last release of MSFS, it was an open program. Fans could design planes, airports, control panels, scenery, and all sorts of freeware that were openly uploaded and downloaded at various sites. Some of the stuff that fans created was actually better than the stuff Microsoft included in the program. That's the part of the program that kept my interest in it going for so many years.
The last release used a different rendering engine, which made it much more difficult to create addons. X Plane, from what I understand, doesn't have much of a following of builders and innovators. It's probably not as open as MSFS.
Some smaller company bought the rights to MS Flight Simulator, and was supposed to release something this year, but I haven't seen it yet. I've seen some arcade games that involved flying, and I bought one, but all it did was fly around and shoot at ships and stuff. It included nothing that resembled the skill and knowledge of actual flying. I didn't find it interesting at all.
Quote from: DunkleSeele on August 19, 2014, 04:33:14 PM
Wipe away Win 8.1.
Install Win 7 professional and Libre Office.
Install Linux Mint on a second partition.
Live happily ever after.
I think MSFS ran best on windows XP, and don't think I'm not considering getting rid of Windows 8. I could see having a special computer running XP and dedicated only to Flight Simulator.
Quote from: SGOS on August 19, 2014, 04:58:29 PM
I think MSFS ran best on windows XP, and don't think I'm not considering getting rid of Windows 8. I could see having a special computer running XP and dedicated only to Flight Simulator.
I don't know anything about MSFS, therefore I can't really help you here. I know that I always hated XP with a passion; it's bloated, unstable (at least until they released SP3) and slow. I liked a lot Win2000 Professional and with Win7 I got back some of the things I liked about W2000: reasonably fast, stable and easy to maintain. As far as I know, it also has a very good backwards compatibility with programs designed for XP.
Having a dedicated XP machine isn't a good solution, in my opinion. XP has been discontinued and some security holes won't be patched any more. If you need to be on the net when running MSFS, it could be a recipe for disaster.
Yeah If it ran on XP, definitely try it through WINE. That is definitely old enough to have the bugs worked out. Like I said, I had Guild Wars 2 running on Ubuntu and Guild Wars 2 is a VERY graphic intensive game.
And like DS said, try some version of Debian (mostly because it's more user friendly for new linux users to set up and use) Linux Mint, Debian.... Just don't do Ubuntu. Ubuntu sucks major balls.
Quote from: SGOS on August 19, 2014, 12:32:15 PM
Actually, you might. I googled open office, and it looks like what I might want. I just need a word processor, and spreadsheets. In fact, the spreadsheets aren't a big deal, but I'm gunshy about downloading anything after that last little debacle with that solitaire game. LOL I take it that open office meets your needs?
You could try its offshoot, Libreoffice, as well, but dont expect as much polish.
Quote from: Hydra009 on August 19, 2014, 01:19:04 PM
All I really need is a basic word processor just a tad better than notepad. So yeah, works fine. Certainly beats shelling out every month.
Try Abiword. Its simple, open source, and available for any platform. Just don't expect much compatibility with MS products.
Quote from: _Xenu_ on August 19, 2014, 06:43:50 PM
Try Abiword. Its simple, open source, and available for any platform. Just don't expect much compatibility with MS products.
Libre office has different saving features if I'm not mistaken. You can save it as the libre office file (.odt) or you can sive it as a MS Word file. And same goes for the other Libre programs, I think
Quote from: PickelledEggs on August 19, 2014, 06:51:27 PM
Libre office has different saving features if I'm not mistaken. You can save it as the libre office file (.odt) or you can sive it as a MS Word file. And same goes for the other Libre programs, I think
It may have this in theory, but in practice MS intentionally builds in incompatibilities that keep it from working as well.
The truth is, anyone who's looking to move to Linux has to accept that most of the software they have used before isn't going to be compatible, and either find open source replacements or do without. My father is an author and using Openoffice caused all kinds of problems for him because his publishers all used MS Office. That's a common problem in the business world where the ability to exchange documents is a big deal. Similar compatibility issues are likely to come with using MS Flight Simulator.
Having said that, I don't personally need much compatibility with MS anything. What I lost from the Windows platform I more than made up for in the simplicity of use, and the availability of open source software in repositories. The archives of whats available are amazing, and contain simple, modular functionality that I never imagined in Windows. There's no malware, no hunting down things on the Internet,and no real question about you can or cannot do. Linux is not designed to make any one money. Its not there to appease the MPAA, or to put any sort of limitations on how you use it. And you can do quite a bit, but the price you pay for it is the loss of your old Windows software. Its not for everyone, and anyone who really wants to move to Linux has to make that sacrifice. Of course, dual booting is always an option.
Eventually, I'm going to give Linux a try, but as far as running Flight Simulator, I'm not reading much that's encouraging. I won't say it doesn't work, but I haven't read anything that says it runs great on Linux. But the way Windows is going, eventually, it probably won't run Flight Simulator anyway. Some of my older programs didn't run right on Windows 7, and some that worked fine on 7 no longer run at all on 8. Backwards compatibility seems like a nice fantasy to me, and I'm getting a sense that it's fast becoming a fantasy only.
The relationship between consumers and Microsoft seems to be that the consumer's purpose in society is to adapt to Microsoft's needs, mostly to their financial goals. We are here to serve Microsoft. That is our only duty. Once we fulfil that to Microsoft's satisfaction, we are free to develop personal relationships and to engage in the pursuits of happiness.
hmm, kinda glad I read this. I've been debating on getting a new system soon and deciding between 7 and 8. heard mixed reaction to 8 and how its bad for gaming, so might just leave off getting the latest system for now.
Quote from: Munch on September 06, 2014, 07:19:21 PM
hmm, kinda glad I read this. I've been debating on getting a new system soon and deciding between 7 and 8. heard mixed reaction to 8 and how its bad for gaming, so might just leave off getting the latest system for now.
You might be ok with 8. There's open source software that makes it look a lot like 7.
Quote from: Desdinova on August 19, 2014, 04:16:23 PM
When was the latest MS flight simulator released? I noticed some open source flight simulators out there for linux. Maybe you could try one of those.
The last release was 2006 with a new version to be announced in 2015.
Quote from: Jason78 on September 07, 2014, 06:57:04 AM
The last release was 2006 with a new version to be announced in 2015.
The Train Simulator people bought the rights from Microsoft, but what they end up doing with it is still a big question. FSX is already 8 or 9 years old, and Microsoft dumped the whole project 5 years ago, in part because of it's outdated engine. Microsoft introduced a simulator simply called "Flight" after they closed down Flight Simulator, but the thing was kind of lame and flopped. In the end, Flight simmers are going to expect big improvements after a 10 year hiatus. If the new owners can provide that, it might work.
However, the speculation is that the new version is going to be less than half a simulator. If you want more planes, and the ability to fly to distant places, you will have to buy extra mods to do it. It will be like buying FSX in parts at a much higher cost. To be successful, it will need to provide something improved like better scenery, more ground action, or more than the generic buildings used over and over again at every airport, which made the airport at Katmandu look like the one at Newark NJ.
I went to Google Open Office because I do most of my computing on Google, and Microsoft Word won't work on Google. For most uses a simple word processor is enough. And free has a nice ring to it.
Quote from: stromboli on September 09, 2014, 09:56:06 PM
I went to Google Open Office because I do most of my computing on Google, and Microsoft Word won't work on Google. For most uses a simple word processor is enough. And free has a nice ring to it.
Two weeks ago I was looking at three programs--Google Docs; Open Office; and Kingsoft. I went with Kingsoft. The reviews suggested that Kingsoft out Microsofts Microsoft. It is fully compatible with Microsoft Office and has a word processor, spreadsheet, and presentation program. I have yet to use the word processor but the spreadsheet is a little better than excel, at least for me. It is a Chinese company that apparently is taking on Microsoft. The program has two versions--free and professional. I downloaded free, of course. About a year ago I had a computer built for me with Windows 8.1 and had it built for gaming. 8.1 sucked!! I had so much trouble that I had it removed and went back to Win. 7. Things work much better for me now.
I had problem with tables being incompatible between Kingsoft and MS Office. Bad incompatibilities.... completely messed up the tables.
That was a year ago. Maybe the bugs have been fixed now.
Quote from: Atheon on September 10, 2014, 12:19:35 AM
I had problem with tables being incompatible between Kingsoft and MS Office. Bad incompatibilities.... completely messed up the tables.
That was a year ago. Maybe the bugs have been fixed now.
So far I've had no problems. I've been able to transfer tables from my old save disk and dragging tables off the net as well. But I'm using Win. 7 and not 8.1, so that may (or may not) have something to do with it.
Quote from: Mike Cl on September 10, 2014, 12:54:06 AM
So far I've had no problems. I've been able to transfer tables from my old save disk and dragging tables off the net as well. But I'm using Win. 7 and not 8.1, so that may (or may not) have something to do with it.
There is a big difference between Windows 7 and 8, at least in look and feel. I think 8 is glitchy, but that could be my computer too.
When I was using 8.1 it was glitchy for me too. Had problems running some games--so I took it off and had 7 put back on. My computer has been much better since.
I am definitely the dumbest person on here when it comes to tech stuff, but I've got to say I've learned more here than anywhere. These types of threads have helped me learn a great deal. When I came on here, I was using IE and didn't know how to do links or anything. Thanks for all of the stuff I've learned, and am still learning. And thanks for being tolerant with me. :biggrin: