Are there any crimes that you would consider evil?
yes
Would you mind elaborating? Can you list a few crimes that you would consider evil?
all of them of course. Evil is subjective.
Quote from: bfiddy100 on August 03, 2014, 08:46:33 PM
Are there any crimes that you would consider evil?
What are the circumstances?
Define "evil."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cONmzaT4x10
If by evil you mean particularly reprehensible, yes.
If by evil you mean associated with malevolent supernatural forces, no.
Crimes I would describe as evil involve intentional cruelty or sadism, particularly when involving vulnerable populations such as children, the elderly or the disabled.
murder
rape
kidnapping
burglary
drunk driving
texting/driving
driving uninsured
tax evasion
assault
defrauding creditors
Quote from: GSOgymrat on August 04, 2014, 02:10:43 AM
If by evil you mean particularly reprehensible, yes.
If by evil you mean associated with malevolent supernatural forces, no.
Crimes I would describe as evil involve intentional cruelty or sadism, particularly when involving vulnerable populations such as children, the elderly or the disabled.
Let's stick with a definition of 'morally represhensible' for evil (as Webster's says). And no, I'm not referring to anything supernatural. Can you list 3 crimes that people commit (or might commit) that you would declare are evil?
Quote from: SGOS on August 04, 2014, 06:08:17 AM
murder
rape
kidnapping
burglary
drunk driving
texting/driving
driving uninsured
tax evasion
assault
defrauding creditors
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ArsonMurderAndJaywalking
Quote from: bfiddy100 on August 04, 2014, 10:53:43 AMLet's stick with a definition of 'morally represhensible' for evil (as Webster's says). And no, I'm not referring to anything supernatural. Can you list 3 crimes that people commit (or might commit) that you would declare are evil?
Arson. Murder. Wearing crocs.
Quote from: bfiddy100 on August 03, 2014, 08:46:33 PM
Are there any crimes that you would consider evil?
What the hell kind of stupid question is that?
Quote from: bfiddy100 on August 04, 2014, 10:53:43 AM
Let's stick with a definition of 'morally represhensible' for evil (as Webster's says). And no, I'm not referring to anything supernatural. Can you list 3 crimes that people commit (or might commit) that you would declare are evil?
"Investigators believe that Byrd, 49, accepted a ride from the suspects as he walked home from a niece's bridal shower. But police believe that instead of taking him home, the men drove Byrd to a wooded area, beat him, chained him behind Berry's truck and sped down a bumpy road just east of town. Byrd's severed head, neck and right arm were discovered about a mile from where his shredded torso was dumped. A trail of blood, body parts and personal effects stretched for two miles, police said. According to one court affidavit, Berry told authorities that Brewer sprayed Byrd's face with black paint before he was killed. ..." http://www.cnn.com/US/9807/06/dragging.death.02/index.html
"A 5-year-old boy, known only as Johnny, was rescued from a dark closet in San Bernardino County in 2009. Much of his body had been burned by a glue gun and hot spoons. He had been starved and sodomized, taunted and punched, forced to eat soap and crouch motionless in corners. ..." http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/06/child-torture-trial-ends-with-three-guilty-verdicts-.html
"Authorities have charged a woman with killing mom-to-be Bobbi Jo Stinnett and cutting the fetus from her womb. Lisa M. Montgomery, 36, of Melvern, Kan., was charged with kidnapping resulting in death. She is accused of showing up at Stinnett's house under the pretext of buying a dog, then strangling her and taking the woman's premature baby girl. ... " http://www.foxnews.com/story/2004/12/19/woman-charged-in-stolen-fetus-case/
Where are you going with this?
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on August 04, 2014, 10:56:01 AM
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ArsonMurderAndJaywalking
Hmmm. I wondered why I didn't get any laughs when I said that at the open mike last Tuesday night. But the rule of three is a good one in serious public speaking. I didn't know it was a rule, and I thought I had invented it, myself. When supporting my arguments, I was always ready with three reasons, but no more. People don't tend to remember more than three reasons in a speech, and if you leave it at three it can often imply there are more left unmentioned.
Any crime that involves deliberately harming others without necessity. Stealing food from the supermarket to live is not evil. Breaking into a house and ransacking the place is evil.
Quote from: The Skeletal Atheist on August 04, 2014, 01:11:41 PM
Any crime that involves deliberately harming others without necessity. Stealing food from the supermarket to live is not evil. Breaking into a house and ransacking the place is evil.
When I was in high school a "transient" came into the grocery store where I worked. He took a cart, walked around the store and picked out bread, coldcuts, mustard and a pint of milk. He pushed the cart into the back of the store and made himself a sandwich and had the milk with it. I found him just as he was finishing. "Are you going to call the cops?" "Nah, I'd do the same if I was hungry." "Please, call them it, it's going to be cold tonight and I want a warm place to sleep." I obliged him since he asked so nice. I hope he made it down to Florida eventually.
Quote from: SGOS on August 04, 2014, 12:01:11 PM
Hmmm. I wondered why I didn't get any laughs when I said that at the open mike last Tuesday night. But the rule of three is a good one in serious public speaking. I didn't know it was a rule, and I thought I had invented it, myself. When supporting my arguments, I was always ready with three reasons, but no more. People don't tend to remember more than three reasons in a speech, and if you leave it at three it can often imply there are more left unmentioned.
I was just commenting on how you ranked murder and tax evasion as both being "evil." :lol:
Quote from: GSOgymrat on August 04, 2014, 11:43:09 AM
"Investigators believe that Byrd, 49, accepted a ride from the suspects as he walked home from a niece's bridal shower. But police believe that instead of taking him home, the men drove Byrd to a wooded area, beat him, chained him behind Berry's truck and sped down a bumpy road just east of town. Byrd's severed head, neck and right arm were discovered about a mile from where his shredded torso was dumped. A trail of blood, body parts and personal effects stretched for two miles, police said. According to one court affidavit, Berry told authorities that Brewer sprayed Byrd's face with black paint before he was killed. ..." http://www.cnn.com/US/9807/06/dragging.death.02/index.html
"A 5-year-old boy, known only as Johnny, was rescued from a dark closet in San Bernardino County in 2009. Much of his body had been burned by a glue gun and hot spoons. He had been starved and sodomized, taunted and punched, forced to eat soap and crouch motionless in corners. ..." http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/06/child-torture-trial-ends-with-three-guilty-verdicts-.html
"Authorities have charged a woman with killing mom-to-be Bobbi Jo Stinnett and cutting the fetus from her womb. Lisa M. Montgomery, 36, of Melvern, Kan., was charged with kidnapping resulting in death. She is accused of showing up at Stinnett's house under the pretext of buying a dog, then strangling her and taking the woman's premature baby girl. ... " http://www.foxnews.com/story/2004/12/19/woman-charged-in-stolen-fetus-case/
Where are you going with this?
OK. Now I'd like you to imagine that you're a judge and that a criminal is before you who has done the first two of the three acts you listed. What would you do with him? You said that you would declare that these actions are evil. So what would you do with this criminal to show that you find his crimes evil (and not irrelevant or good)?
Quote from: bfiddy100 on August 04, 2014, 05:22:18 PM
OK. Now I'd like you to imagine that you're a judge and that a criminal is before you who has done the first two of the three acts you listed. What would you do with him? You said that you would declare that these actions are evil. So what would you do with this criminal to show that you find his crimes evil (and not irrelevant or good)?
As a judge, after a criminal has been found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, you apply the punishment outlined in the law, you halfwit.
Quote from: the_antithesis on August 04, 2014, 05:28:46 PM
As a judge, after a criminal has been found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, you apply the punishment outlined in the law
Agreed
(I'm so looking forward to how this trick plays out)
Quote from: bfiddy100 on August 04, 2014, 05:22:18 PM
OK. Now I'd like you to imagine that you're a judge and that a criminal is before you who has done the first two of the three acts you listed. What would you do with him? You said that you would declare that these actions are evil. So what would you do with this criminal to show that you find his crimes evil (and not irrelevant or good)?
Well, we have these special buildings where people go in and can't leave for a while...
Quote from: GSOgymrat on August 04, 2014, 09:20:50 PM
Agreed
(I'm so looking forward to how this trick plays out)
What if the criminal doesn't think that the punishment is fair? Keeping in mind the 3 evil things that you previously listed and that the criminal had done the first 2 but not the last, what if the criminal says to you, 'look, I'm a good person. It's not like I've done anything serious like strangle a pregnant woman and cut out her fetus.' Would that change what you would do with him? In other words, if the criminal doesn't agree with you that what he did was evil (he agrees it was wrong, just not a serious offense) would you not punish him or consider rewarding him?
(https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/952705792/h76F0495F/)
Quote from: bfiddy100 on August 04, 2014, 10:29:28 PMWhat if the criminal doesn't think that the punishment is fair?
"Too bad."
Quote from: bfiddy100 on August 04, 2014, 10:29:28 PM
What if the criminal doesn't think that the punishment is fair? Keeping in mind the 3 evil things that you previously listed and that the criminal had done the first 2 but not the last, what if the criminal says to you, 'look, I'm a good person. It's not like I've done anything serious like strangle a pregnant woman and cut out her fetus.' Would that change what you would do with him? In other words, if the criminal doesn't agree with you that what he did was evil (he agrees it was wrong, just not a serious offense) would you not punish him or consider rewarding him?
Well I certainly can't imagine
rewarding someone for burning a child with hot glue and spoons (children don't lend themselves to decoupage) so I will say, while restraining oneself from fetus theft is admirable, the child torture really can't go without consequence. Because I'm American and from the South, let's say the sentence is to be chained to the back of a truck and driven across a two mile dirt road.
Quote from: GSOgymrat on August 05, 2014, 08:24:45 AM
Well I certainly can't imagine rewarding someone for burning a child with hot glue and spoons (children don't lend themselves to decoupage) so I will say, while restraining oneself from fetus theft is admirable, the child torture really can't go without consequence. Because I'm American and from the South, let's say the sentence is to be chained to the back of a truck and driven across a two mile dirt road.
Right, because if you, the judge, reward evil behavior you are declaring that it is good and that you approve of it. And to not punish the criminal is to say that you are indifferent about such things and don't care if children are burned with hot glue or not. And therefore, you will punish the criminal because you know his acts were evil and it doesn't matter if he disagrees with you. It is right for you to punish him even if he thinks he's a good person who should be rewarded for the way he's lived his life and thinks you're cruel and evil for punishing him. As Hydra said 'too bad' would be an appropriate response to the criminal. If you agree with all that then we can move on to the next part.
There is a next part? Sorry but I have never had much patience with "pick a card, any card" games. I'm out.
Quote from: bfiddy100 on August 05, 2014, 10:44:23 AMIf you agree with all that then we can move on to the next part.
Wild guess here. God operates the same way. Haven't seen that before.
Quote from: GSOgymrat on August 05, 2014, 11:00:37 AM
There is a next part? Sorry but I have never had much patience with "pick a card, any card" games. I'm out.
I appreciate the input you've provided and I hope you will reconsider being 'out' and give the following some thought. I'd like you to now switch roles. You are now the criminal and the judge is someone who has a different moral standard than you, just like you did with regards to the criminal. According to the Bible, Jesus Christ will be your judge after you die. And 3 of the things that He knows are evil are 1)slander 2)deceit and 3)murder (see Mark 7:20-23). If you're like me, you've done the first 2. What do you think He should do with you?
Quote from: Hydra009 on August 05, 2014, 12:56:58 PM
Wild guess here. God operates the same way. Haven't seen that before.
Well, yes and no. I didn't hear anyone suggest that the judge should have mercy on the criminal and find a way to not punish him or even reward him. So if God was as unmerciful as we are to people who fail to meet our standards then there would be no hope for anything but punishment for us. But God is more kind and merciful than any of us and has made a way for those who have done what is evil in His sight to not only not be punished, but be rewarded. And He does so while still declaring that evil acts are evil. But if people refuse to come to Him for mercy and act like the criminal who says I'm a good person and deserve to be rewarded for the way I've lived then God will act the way that you've already said was right to act and punish that criminal.
Quote from: bfiddy100 on August 05, 2014, 01:22:52 PMBut God is more kind and merciful than any of us and has made a way for those who have done what is evil in His sight to not only not be punished, but be rewarded.
And therein lies the fatal flaw in the analogy. What you're talking about isn't actually crime, it's thoughtcrime.
It's exactly that kind of authoritarian crap that normal people consider cruel and barbaric and that appeals to the worst sort of scum that this planet has to offer - and you say that the creator of the universe is like that. It's such a benighted belief that it's fortunate that it's utterly unevidenced and almost certainly false.
Quote from: Hydra009 on August 05, 2014, 02:50:42 PM
And therein lies the fatal flaw in the analogy. What you're talking about isn't actually crime, it's thoughtcrime.
It's exactly that kind of authoritarian crap that normal people consider cruel and barbaric and that appeals to the worst sort of scum that this planet has to offer - and you say that the creator of the universe is like that. It's such a benighted belief that it's fortunate that it's utterly unevidenced and almost certainly false.
You are acting just like the criminal whom you said 'too bad' to when he disagreed with your punishment for him. You don't believe that evil thoughts should be punished. But this idea that thoughts don't matter is quite wrong. In fact it is the thoughts behind an action that determine if the action is evil or not. Taking a drill to your tooth isn't evil if I'm a dentist and I'm removing a harmful cavity. But the same action of taking a drill to your tooth is evil if I'm doing it because I take pleasure in the suffering of others. Evil thoughts are still evil and God, like you, will punish evil, not act indifferent towards it or act as though it is good.
Please demonstrate that your god exists before you continue pontificating about how much he's going to make evildoers pay. Until then,your statements are about the equivalent of a Superman fanatic ranting and raving about his own chosen idol.
Quote from: bfiddy100 on August 05, 2014, 05:42:35 PM
You are acting just like the criminal whom you said 'too bad' to when he disagreed with your punishment for him. You don't believe that evil thoughts should be punished. But this idea that thoughts don't matter is quite wrong. In fact it is the thoughts behind an action that determine if the action is evil or not. Taking a drill to your tooth isn't evil if I'm a dentist and I'm removing a harmful cavity. But the same action of taking a drill to your tooth is evil if I'm doing it because I take pleasure in the suffering of others. Evil thoughts are still evil and God, like you, will punish evil, not act indifferent towards it or act as though it is good.
And how can you possibly know what someone is thinking without an action? Oh wait you believe in magic.
(http://community.us.playstation.com/t5/image/serverpage/image-id/258499i51C0C5BF473B983B?v=mpbl-1)
Quote from: bfiddy100 on August 05, 2014, 05:42:35 PMBut this idea that thoughts don't matter is quite wrong.
Please note the subtle difference between the statements "thoughts don't matter" and "thoughts shouldn't be considered crimes". It's tricky, but I promise you it's there.
QuoteIn fact it is the thoughts behind an action that determine if the action is evil or not.
Close. You're talking about intent. Another tricky concept.
QuoteEvil thoughts are still evil and God, like you, will punish evil, not act indifferent towards it or act as though it is good.
Then your God is the cosmic equivalent of Kim Jung Il and you are totally screwed up in the head. But that's okay, because I don't punish thoughts. :)
Quote from: bfiddy100 on August 05, 2014, 05:42:35 PM
God, like you, will punish evil, not act indifferent towards it or act as though it is good.
There is no evidence to show that any god even exists, let alone that he punishes evil of any sort. If there is a god, he is most definitely indifferent towards evil, or is absolutely powerless to do anything about it. Coastal hurricanes, tornados, and tidal waves are all natural events, and as such they are not evidence of punishment. Using a fantasy claim to support your argument is useless.
1. Capture a daddy and a daughter
2. beat the daddy up while the chained girl watches.
3. rape the daughter in front of the who is chained daddy.
4. Make the mother think your good and rescue the 2 but when she and the cops comes and tries to free them kill the cops and beat the woman up.
5. Rape the woman then skin her alive.
6. put her skinless yet alive body in the police cars with the dead cops by town.
7. put on skin the kill the rest of small family: brother and dog and put their pike their heads in front of drive way.
8. tell the father and daughter every detail when raping daughter and beating her up.
9. escape with daugher and knock father unconcious and put him with the mother.
10. wait 2 years while raping daughter and having 2 kids.
11.kill 1 baby and eat brain infront of the daughter knock her out and place the daughter and dead baby in front of recovering parents home.
12. raise baby to be a serial killer like you.
13 repeat.
Quote from: bfiddy100 on August 05, 2014, 01:03:26 PM
I appreciate the input you've provided and I hope you will reconsider being 'out' and give the following some thought. I'd like you to now switch roles. You are now the criminal and the judge is someone who has a different moral standard than you, just like you did with regards to the criminal. According to the Bible, Jesus Christ will be your judge after you die. And 3 of the things that He knows are evil are 1)slander 2)deceit and 3)murder (see Mark 7:20-23). If you're like me, you've done the first 2. What do you think He should do with you?
I wrote a response but then erased it because there really is no point in conversing with you. We have completely different and irreconcilable world views.
Quote from: Draconic Aiur on August 07, 2014, 12:26:40 AM
1. Capture a daddy and a daughter
2. beat the daddy up while the chained girl watches.
3. rape the daughter in front of the who is chained daddy.
4. Make the mother think your good and rescue the 2 but when she and the cops comes and tries to free them kill the cops and beat the woman up.
5. Rape the woman then skin her alive.
6. put her skinless yet alive body in the police cars with the dead cops by town.
7. put on skin the kill the rest of small family: brother and dog and put their pike their heads in front of drive way.
8. tell the father and daughter every detail when raping daughter and beating her up.
9. escape with daugher and knock father unconcious and put him with the mother.
10. wait 2 years while raping daughter and having 2 kids.
11.kill 1 baby and eat brain infront of the daughter knock her out and place the daughter and dead baby in front of recovering parents home.
12. raise baby to be a serial killer like you.
13 repeat.
And that is a clear indication I don't need to participate in this forum anymore.
it says in the bible that not believing in the perfect God is an evil crime.... so i wholeheartedly agree that atheism should be punished in one way or another..........
Thats an evil crime. On another case I've been reading and watching too many crime drama/crime horror.
having children just to bring them to a public restaurant so it screams and pisses everyone else off, while doing nothing to stop it. This is a crime worse then drunk driving
Quote from: bfiddy100 on August 05, 2014, 05:42:35 PM
You are acting just like the criminal whom you said 'too bad' to when he disagreed with your punishment for him. You don't believe that evil thoughts should be punished. But this idea that thoughts don't matter is quite wrong. In fact it is the thoughts behind an action that determine if the action is evil or not.
You still have to
DO the action. Otherwise, you're not an evil
doer â€" you're an evil
thinker.
Speaking about evil crimes, what would you do if a person was being murdered and you had the power to save their life at absolutely no risk to your own life? If you didn't intervene, would you be in any way complicit to the murder?
Quote from: Hydra009 on August 27, 2014, 12:34:44 AM
Speaking about evil crimes, what would you do if a person was being murdered and you had the power to save their life at absolutely no risk to your own life? If you didn't intervene, would you be in any way complicit to the murder?
Depending on the situation, you could be considered an accomplice. If it is happening right in front of you OR in the commission of a crime that you are involved with, then yes you would be culpable of the crime of murder. If you were to hear of a murder plot and do nothing to stop it(i.e. inform the authorities) then I dunno. But I would lean towards yes.
Plot twist: you're God. And this situation happens every single day.
Quote from: Draconic Aiur on August 07, 2014, 12:26:40 AM
1. Capture a daddy and a daughter
2. beat the daddy up while the chained girl watches.
3. rape the daughter in front of the who is chained daddy.
4. Make the mother think your good and rescue the 2 but when she and the cops comes and tries to free them kill the cops and beat the woman up.
5. Rape the woman then skin her alive.
6. put her skinless yet alive body in the police cars with the dead cops by town.
7. put on skin the kill the rest of small family: brother and dog and put their pike their heads in front of drive way.
8. tell the father and daughter every detail when raping daughter and beating her up.
9. escape with daugher and knock father unconcious and put him with the mother.
10. wait 2 years while raping daughter and having 2 kids.
11.kill 1 baby and eat brain infront of the daughter knock her out and place the daughter and dead baby in front of recovering parents home.
12. raise baby to be a serial killer like you.
13 repeat.
I see you've put some thought into this. OK bye.
Quote from: Jmpty on August 27, 2014, 12:32:35 PM
I see you've put some thought into this. OK bye.
Well the point of the thread was to come up with an "evil" crime, yes?
Quote from: bfiddy100 on August 05, 2014, 01:03:26 PM
I appreciate the input you've provided and I hope you will reconsider being 'out' and give the following some thought. I'd like you to now switch roles. You are now the criminal and the judge is someone who has a different moral standard than you, just like you did with regards to the criminal. According to the Bible, Jesus Christ will be your judge after you die. And 3 of the things that He knows are evil are 1)slander 2)deceit and 3)murder (see Mark 7:20-23). If you're like me, you've done the first 2. What do you think He should do with you?
Doesn't context matter? Didn't we agree earlier that it's not the crime in and of itself that's evil, but the intent behind it?
Shouldn't the impact of a crime and the circumstances be a factor in the sentencing?
Quote from: Jason78 on August 27, 2014, 01:15:57 PM
Doesn't context matter? Didn't we agree earlier that it's not the crime in and of itself that's evil, but the intent behind it?
Shouldn't the impact of a crime and the circumstances be a factor in the sentencing?
[Fundie mode] Obviously, not accepting Jesus into your heart - a "crime" that hurts no one - based on some pretty dodgy apologetics is roughly the same thing as murder. Duh! [/Fundie mode]
Quote from: Hydra009 on August 27, 2014, 02:08:35 PM
[Fundie mode] Obviously, not accepting Jesus into your heart - a "crime" that hurts no one - based on some pretty dodgy apologetics is roughly the same thing as murder. Duh! [/Fundie mode]
[fundie mode] Wrong. Not accepting Jesus in your life hurts you and everyone around you. That's why it's so important to not let anyone live their life without letting them learn about the love of Christ[/fundie mode]
Sent from your mom
Oh yeah, I forgot about that. It's funny how strongly this stuff is pushed is inversely proportional to how much it is examined.
Quote from: bfiddy100 on August 03, 2014, 08:46:33 PM
Are there any crimes that you would consider evil?
Eating the last poptart (or any snack for that matter) and putting the box back like you didn't finish the last one.