If someone is looking for the ten best basketball players and they are all black men does it make sense to say half of them have to be women and we need a white person an Asian a Mexican and Arab and a native american?
give the position to the person who does the job the best. Duh!If you need the ten best mathematicians and they are all women or they are all Asian give the job to those who do it best.If the people that are applying for the job are almost all black, don't feel guilty for hiring a whitey whose more educated, experienced, or suited for it.
If I was a fat guy In a wheelchair and a fire person was coming to my rescue, would I want a woman to grab me by the ankles and drag my fat ass down a flight of stairs, or a male who can put me over his shoulder and carry me. If you want someone who can restrain derelicts doped up on PCP and stabilize prison riots the average male applying for the job is more suited for that type of work than the average female.
There are a lot of jobs where the women who are applying will do the job better. Its bullshit that a whole gender couldn't vote but if you are hiring people give the job to the person whois best suited for it rather than feel guilty about being prejudice.The other philosophy is irrational and bad for civilization
Oh.
I cant tell if that means you disagre
I think the initial point of affirmative action was instead of hiring the non-white person who was more qualified for the job they would hire the white guy who wasn't. If they got rid of affirmative action it most likely would go back to that.
-Nam
Al Franken presented an analogy (which I believe he credited to his high school coach):
QuoteConsider two baseball players who tie in a race to first base. However, one runs with perfect form while the other runs awkwardly. Which do you choose? You choose the one who runs awkwardly because when you teach him good form, he’ll run faster than the other player.
To apply the analogy to schools, where affirmative action has mostly been seen, debated and adjudicated, imagine two students with roughly equivalent academic records are competing for the same spot at a college. One comes from wealth, attended private schools with high spending per pupil, had private tutors, SAT prep-class, ect. The other comes from an impoverished area, low spending per pupil, broken home, had to work nights during high school, ect.
Which student gets the spot? How much do these extenuating circumstances influence the choice?
I always favor the poor over the rich
But if a man cant pass the firemans because he cant lift 200 pounds, why hire a woman because she can lift less but pass the female test which has way less requirements. That is bullshit! Give the job to the one best qualified for jesus hmyrphy fuck sake!!
Its not sexist its fucking obvious! As a general rule men can lift more. Duh!
)there are exceptions
Quote from: suq maddiq on June 26, 2014, 01:10:48 PM
I always favor the poor over the rich
But if a man cant pass the firemans because he cant lift 200 pounds, why hire a woman because she can lift less but pass the female test which has way less requirements. That is bullshit! Give the job to the one best qualified for jesus hmyrphy fuck sake!!
Its not sexist its fucking obvious! As a general rule men can lift more. Duh!
)there are exceptions
True. Exceptions shouldn't be made when we're talking about the difference between life and death in a rescue operation.
Drunkenshoe perhaps u cld eloborate? Or are you from a muslim country that treats women like shitheads?
Well welcome to america. You probably have no clue cuz affirmative action is limited to irrational first wworld christian candy ass cunts!
If you had to choose between a 150lb next to no muscle non-white guy and a 250lb solid muscle white guy to be a bouncer and have a white majority work-force... would you then be required to hire the non-white guy?
I think when it comes to jobs, the best for the job is always the right option. If the best happens to be the white guy, then the white guy should get the job. If the best happens to be the non-white guy, then the non-white guy should get it.
Oh, I see. Affirmative action for poor people is good, affirmative action for women (at least when it comes to removing fat guys from burning buildings) is bad.
Do you know how few women are firefighters? If we go by wiki's numbers (good enough for our purposes here) we have less that 2% in America (in 2002), 1.4% of professionals and 7.5% of volunteer firefighters in Germany, 3.8% in Tokyo, 3.3% in the Netherlands, and 3.1% in the UK. So, how many of these only have their job because people "feel guilty about being prejudice" rather than the women's abilities?
Quote from: wolf39us on June 26, 2014, 02:26:30 PM
If you had to choose between a 150lb next to no muscle non-white guy and a 250lb solid muscle white guy to be a bouncer and have a white majority work-force... would you then be required to hire the non-white guy?
I think when it comes to jobs, the best for the job is always the right option. If the best happens to be the white guy, then the white guy should get the job. If the best happens to be the non-white guy, then the non-white guy should get it.
Ill report u for trolling mr. Wolfsack. Nah! U have common sense at least :-)! Cheers!
Stop with your strawman bullshit of coming up with nonexistent examples. We can play that game all day long of citing the one egregious example, but then we could do that all day long. Ronald Reagan got in the whitehouse citing the 'welfare queen' strawman that maybe, MAYBE was one out of 10000000, but as long as there's one corrupt poor person let's ban all poor people from ever receiving any benefit of society. The same tired argument is used to impose voter restrictions. ONE person MIGHT have voted twice so let's require EVERYONE to pass DNA screening to vote.
Such bullshit..
Quote from: Poison Tree on June 26, 2014, 02:43:04 PM
Oh, I see. Affirmative action for poor people is good, affirmative action for women (at least when it comes to removing fat guys from burning buildings) is bad.
Do you know how few women are firefighters? If we go by wiki's numbers (good enough for our purposes here) we have less that 2% in America (in 2002), 1.4% of professionals and 7.5% of volunteer firefighters in Germany, 3.8% in Tokyo, 3.3% in the Netherlands, and 3.1% in the UK. So, how many of these only have their job because people "feel guilty about being prejudice" rather than the women's abilities?
Well I recently was picked up by the fire department for vomiting excessively in a public restaurant. the majority of them were women but I will give you the benefit of the doubt that wiki is right. Give females the same test as males thats all I ask. All for equality!
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on June 26, 2014, 02:51:44 PM
Stop with your strawman bullshit of coming up with nonexistent examples. We can play that game all day long of citing the one egregious example, but then we could do that all day long. Ronald Reagan got in the whitehouse citing the 'welfare queen' strawman that maybe, MAYBE was one out of 10000000, but as long as there's one corrupt poor person let's ban all poor people from ever receiving any benefit of society. The same tired argument is used to impose voter restrictions. ONE person MIGHT have voted twice so let's require EVERYONE to pass DNA screening to vote.
Such bullshit..
what do you mean a non-existent examples. The female fire enforcement test Is far different than the male. Where did I learn this? College.
Quote from: suq maddiq on June 26, 2014, 02:52:42 PM
Well I recently was picked opps by the fire department for vomiting excessively in a public restaurant. the majority of them were women
So this isn't really about affirmative action, it is about you being bitter about getting sacked and blaming women.
Fuck you asswipe. I ain't your bitch. You're a fucking chump. *click*
Quote from: suq maddiq on June 26, 2014, 02:56:51 PM
what do you mean a non-existent examples. The female fire enforcement test lis far different than the male. Where did I learn this? College. Bitch!
Did you learn to spell in college, bitch?
Was it the Community College of Trashy Peoples?
Did you graduate or did you have to drop out because spelling just became too difficult?
-Nam
Quote from: suq maddiq on June 26, 2014, 02:56:51 PM
what do you mean a non-existent examples. The female fire enforcement test lis far different than the male. Where did I learn this? College. Bitch!
So you learned that the female fire enforcement test is different from that of males... from college? Not from the certification agencies themselves? And why do you call it "fire enforcement?" I thought the profession was called "fire
fighting."
Quote from: Nam on June 26, 2014, 05:04:34 PM
Did you learn to spell in college, bitch?
Was it the Community College of Trashy Peoples?
Did you graduate or did you have to drop out because spelling just became too difficult?
I'm on a cell phone and I'm speaking into the phone and the words that are on the screen are not always the words that I'm saying. If you've ever used the cell audio for texting or posting you would know what I'm talking about.
All I'm saying is give the job to the person most qualified. That's just common sense!
by the way, if I were writing a paper for an English teacher, I would do more proof reading.
Also, if there's a woman who is able to play football better than men, she should be in the NFL. Im all for equality.
Quote from: Poison Tree on June 26, 2014, 03:20:08 PM
So this isn't really about affirmative action, it is about you being bitter about getting sacked and blaming women.
I enjoy it when women sack me :biggrin:
What did I blame women for?
Also I have nothing against apa. I just felt like saying college bitch!
also, where I'm from, or at least where I grew up, the term fire enforcement was used, because whenever the law enforcement were called, the fire department would show up, or whenever an ambulance was called, the same bullshit.
It was extremely annoying.
Quote from: Nam on June 26, 2014, 12:05:30 PM
I think the initial point of affirmative action was instead of hiring the non-white person who was more qualified for the job they would hire the white guy who wasn't. If they got rid of affirmative action it most likely would go back to that.
-Nam
absolutely to hire the white guy less qualified for the job is complete bullshit! I'm all about eliminating such a retarded philosophy, if such an asinine view or procedure were even worthy of being called "philosophy".
I'm not going to deny the fact that if you look at the percentage of our population that is African American, compared t to the percentage of the NBA that is african american, it is obvious that African americans are predominately more gifted at playing ball. No shit sherlock!
you can do multiple quotes at once... no need to post 3 times
Quote from: suq maddiq on June 26, 2014, 07:29:05 PM
I'm on a cell phone and I'm speaking into the phone and the words that are on the screen are not always the words that I'm saying. If you've ever used the cell audio for texting or posting you would know what I'm talking about.
I've been on an Android for 2+ years. On it right now and yet I can spell just fine.
QuoteAll I'm saying is give the job to the person most qualified. That's just common sense!
And to a racist who do you think is the most qualified?
To a sexist, who do you think is the most qualified?
To a bigot or prejudiced person: who do you think is most qualified?
To them: not the person they are racist, sexist, bigoted, or prejudiced against.
Quoteby the way, if I were writing a paper for an English teacher, I would do more proof reading.
Irrelevant. This is a website catered to words, and in this case English words. That guy from Turkey who believes he speaks English perfectly (though clearly he doesn't) may not be able to understand some of the idioms one uses. Using such vernacular on occasion is one thing but sounding like an idiot all the time just confuses people like him who have to try to decipher what you're saying, and to the rest of us...idiotic.
QuoteAlso, if there's a woman who is able to play football better than men, she should be in the NFL. Im all for equality.
That's nice but many people are not.
-Nam
Quote from: suq maddiq on June 26, 2014, 07:41:30 PM
I enjoy it when women sack me :biggrin:
What did I blame women for?
Also I have nothing against apa. I just felt like saying college bitch!
also, where I'm from, or at least where I grew up, the term fire enforcement was used, because whenever the law enforcement were called, the fire department would show up, or whenever an ambulance was called, the same bullshit.
It was extremely annoying.
You do realize most firefighters are trained paramedics?
-Nam
Quote from: wolf39us on June 26, 2014, 09:33:41 PM
you can do multiple quotes at once... no need to post 3 times
That actually is a bit difficult on certain phones.
-Nam
Lmfao!
I agree with nam
Even if he/she is a rude arrogant asshole! :-)
You don't really deserve a response, but I'll give you one.
Go fuck yourself bitch.
Quote from: suq maddiq on June 26, 2014, 11:08:56 PM
Lmfao!
I agree with nam
Even if he/she is a rude arrogant asshole! :-)
He.
-Nam
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on June 26, 2014, 11:09:39 PM
You don't really deserve a response, but I'll give you one.
Go fuck yourself bitch.
what crawled up your ass and died?
please debate me why don't ya? do you disagree with my idea of equality? otherwise shut the fuck up!
Quote from: suq maddiq on June 26, 2014, 11:16:54 PM
what crawled up your ass and died?
please debate me why don't ya? do you disagree with my idea of equality? otherwise shut the fuck up!
You're not for equality if you think he should "shut the fuck up".
Think about it.
-Nam
Quote from: Nam on June 26, 2014, 11:18:47 PM
You're not for equality if you think he should "shut the fuck up".
Think about it.
-Nam
that's a lot coming from someone who repeatedly called me an idiot and a bitch!!
I believe in equality, not the modern feminist bullshit or the modern affirmative action
is that scandalous to you?
also, you go back and proof read everything you speak on your phone? I'm truly at edified!
Quote from: suq maddiq on June 26, 2014, 11:24:10 PM
that's a lot coming from someone who repeatedly called me an idiot and a bitch!!
I believe in equality, not the modern feminist bullshit or the modern affirmative action
is that scandalous to you?
also, you go back and proof read everything you speak on your phone? I'm truly at edified!
You called someone else a "bitch", and so I called you a "bitch". If you wish to call me a "bitch", go right ahead. And, I never called you an idiot...as of yet. Implying you may be an idiot isn't the same as actually calling you one.
I proofread everything I post. I sometimes miss something but I do proofread every single thing I post.
-Nam
Quote from: suq maddiq on June 26, 2014, 09:43:01 AM
If someone is looking for the ten best basketball players and they are all black men does it make sense to say half of them have to be women and we need a white person an Asian a Mexican and Arab and a native american?
give the position to the person who does the job the best. Duh!If you need the ten best mathematicians and they are all women or they are all Asian give the job to those who do it best.If the people that are applying for the job are almost all black, don't feel guilty for hiring a whitey whose more educated, experienced, or suited for it.
If I was a fat guy In a wheelchair and a fire person was coming to my rescue, would I want a woman to grab me by the ankles and drag my fat ass down a flight of stairs, or a male who can put me over his shoulder and carry me. If you want someone who can restrain derelicts doped up on PCP and stabilize prison riots the average male applying for the job is more suited for that type of work than the average female.
There are a lot of jobs where the women who are applying will do the job better. Its bullshit that a whole gender couldn't vote but if you are hiring people give the job to the person whois best suited for it rather than feel guilty about being prejudice.The other philosophy is irrational and bad for civilization
The problem is that you're trying to see the world in black and white and it just isn't that way, and you have zero sense of history.
Affirmative action has been used to compensate for past discrimination by the ruling class of this and other cultures, and to address existing discrimination. It has succeeded to some decree in this. The fact that it's not a perfect solution and that you can point out problems doesn't mean much given what has occurred.
Think about it. We kept people as slaves for hundreds of years. We kept women out of higher education for centuries. And your solution is what? "I'm all for equality"... now! Oh, you're all about justice right? Do you not see how this comes off as completely self serving and ignorant of our own history?
Quote from: Berati on June 26, 2014, 11:50:21 PM
The problem is that you're trying to see the world in black and white and it just isn't that way, and you have zero sense of history.
Affirmative action has been used to compensate for past discrimination by the ruling class of this and other cultures, and to address existing discrimination. It has succeeded to some decree in this. The fact that it's not a perfect solution and that you can point out problems doesn't mean much given what has occurred.
Think about it. We kept people as slaves for hundreds of years. We kept women out of higher education for centuries. And your solution is what? "I'm all for equality"... now! Oh, you're all about justice right? Do you not see how this comes off as completely self serving and ignorant of our own history?
I think our nation's history and our treatment of blacks and Native Americans is absolutely horrifying and despicable!
however, the Native Americans were killing each other and destroying other tribes before we ever got here. And the slaves that Americans purchased from Africa were already slaves in Africa and currently in Africa there is still slavery today.
there is an enormous amount of violence and slavery in Africa and the Middle East, far more than what we see in europe and america, therefore I'm not too fond of all this white guilt these days, but yes I find despicable the way that Europeans have colonized other nations and treated aboriginals like they are not human beings! That is not the point !what Im saying is that affirmative action should not reach a level of using a history of white guilt and misogyny as an excuse to give jobs to the under qualified on the basis that in the past they were discriminated against.
Quote from: suq maddiq on June 27, 2014, 12:06:25 AM
I think our nation's history and our treatment of blacks and Native Americans is absolutely horrifying and despicable!
however, the Native Americans were killing each other and destroying other tribes before we ever got here
They all were? Evidence?
Quote. And the slaves that Americans purchased from Africa were already slaves in Africa and currently in Africa there is still slavery today.
What college do you go to?
Quotethere is an enormous amount of violence and slavery in Africa and the Middle East, far more than what we see in europe and america
You got half that right. The two most violent places (by continent) on Earth are Africa and South America.
http://list25.com/25-most-violent-places-in-the-world/
The Middle East is a part of Asia.
Quotetherefore I'm not too fond of all this white guilt these days, but yes I find despicable the way that Europeans have colonized other nations and treated aboriginals like they are not human beings! That is not the point !what Im saying is that affirmative action should not reach a level of using a history of white guilt and misogyny as an excuse to give jobs to the under qualified on the basis that in the past they were discriminated against.
It's not "white guilt", it's the idea that white people have this idea (in general) they are superior to other races. It's not just White Supremacists who hold to this idiocy, they just have the veracity to be truthful about it. This is not to say that other races may not feel the same way about their race but whites seem to take it to a greater and more violent (socially/economically) place than perhaps other races. That, and those who are Christian most definitely (in general) think they are far superior to everyone else.
-Nam
I never said they all were!
U can start here:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_contemporary_Africa
Quote from: suq maddiq on June 27, 2014, 12:49:31 AM
I never said they all were!
U can start here:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_contemporary_Africa
You really don't get it; and I like how you mainly focus just on the one point, and ignore the rest.
I'll play your game.
1. How is it relevant that slavery already existed in Africa before it did in the US?
2. How is it relevant that slavery still exists today compared to slavery no longer existing in the US (though, that in of itself isn't entirely true)?
3. How is "white guilt" an attribution of Affirmative Action?
4. What does Native Americans warring with each other have anything to do with Affirmative Action today, or when first imposed?
5. Do you actually know the definition of "equality"?
-Nam
Oh fuck me dry, I was going to ignore this but god damn some of this shit hurt to read...
Quote...the Native Americans were killing each other and destroying other tribes before we ever got here.
Not on mass scale as the Europeans did it. There is a difference between killing a competing tribe and the mass slaughter and relocation of every brown skinned man, woman or child on the entire Eastern bit of the continent (and eventually more inland, as well). Numbers are just details though...
QuoteAnd the slaves that Americans purchased from Africa were already slaves in Africa and currently in Africa there is still slavery today.
Not all of them, no. I personally do not know the numbers, but I know both the English and Portuguese (and other's as well I would assume) lead expeditions to find new tribes and ship them to the New World.
Also; there is slavery in Africa, the Middle East, Central Asia, Latin America (amongst drug cartels particularly), the United States (human trafficking is still a huge issue here)... I don't know about Australia, to be honest. Antarctica is probably the only continent you won't find any slavery on.
Finally; oh, that makes it better then. The people who sold them against their will was evil, so it was okay-ish to do evil things to the people who were taken against their will. Brilliant logic there.
That's all I could really get through. Also...
Quote... not the modern feminist bullshit...
Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. This shit. This shit here. This shit here again.
God damn it, internet, this shit is getting old.
^you ruined my whole questioning.
-Nam
Can we ever fuck off with the "white guilt" bullshit?
Modern white culture in the US does not have "white guilt", far from it in fact.
I've experienced actual white guilt in the various punk shows/parties I've been to. I've seen people (mostly hipster and posicore looking folk....not a judgement but an observation) actually lament the fact that they were born white, and rebuke me because I didn't think that being white in and of itself was a bad thing. What the fucking racists shitheads call white guilt is white people recognizing that the white power structure gives them a huge societal advantage and working to counter that.
Shit, the white power structure even ends up hurting poor whites. In rural areas it encourages the "bootstraps" idea even though that is fucking retarded in today's economic climate, and in urban areas where poor whites are stuck in the same ghettos as other races it fosters a distrust of white people in general.
Basically the only people a white power structure helps are rich white people and "acceptable rich minorities". This isn't limited to white people, of course, it's just that some groups of white people happened to set up a nice way to colonize and exploit other people. If it happened in Africa it would be a "black power structure". If it happened in Asia it would be a "yellow power structure". The simple fact is that it doesn't matter what race has the societal advantage, any one race being above others hurts all.
Quote from: suq maddiq on June 27, 2014, 12:06:25 AM
I think our nation's history and our treatment of blacks and Native Americans is absolutely horrifying and despicable!
Great, so what are you prepared to do about it?
Quotehowever, the Native Americans were killing each other and destroying other tribes before we ever got here. And the slaves that Americans purchased from Africa were already slaves in Africa and currently in Africa there is still slavery today.
How does the fact that others committed the same crime absolve us of our own?
QuoteThat is not the point !what Im saying is that affirmative action should not reach a level of using a history of white guilt and misogyny as an excuse to give jobs to the under qualified on the basis that in the past they were discriminated against.
White guilt has zero to do with this. It's about justice. Restitution is justice. Doing nothing would be the injustice. Keep in mind that restitution has a cost.
Think about that guy who kept those girls trapped for years and years. What you are saying is that just freeing them is enough. It's not enough.
In this case, the crime wasn't one person against another, it was one culture against another. Far more complex, but still a crime.
As I've already said:
"Affirmative action has been used to compensate for past discrimination by the ruling class of this and other cultures, and to address existing discrimination. It has succeeded to some decree in this. The fact that it's not a perfect solution and that you can point out problems doesn't mean much given what has occurred."
Quote from: suq maddiq on June 27, 2014, 12:06:25 AM
I think our nation's history and our treatment of blacks and Native Americans is absolutely horrifying and despicable!
however, the Native Americans were killing each other and destroying other tribes before we ever got here. And the slaves that Americans purchased from Africa were already slaves in Africa and currently in Africa there is still slavery today.
Small Pox killed the Native Americans at a rate no amount of firepower could keep up with (at the time). They fought each other, but not even close to the point of destruction. You're summation of African slavery and the slave trade of the 1700-1800's is interesting, not accurate in any way, but interesting.
I don't dabble into this subject much so bear with me here. I'm confused as to how restitution is an appropriate solution 200 years after the fact?
The African Americans of today have nothing to do with slavery so what is there to pay back?
Quote from: drunkenshoe on June 27, 2014, 05:27:37 AM
Naaah yare the one who needs to shut the fuck up, kiddo. You already demonstrated your ignorance and inability to understand the simplest concepts on the subject you brought up, your capacity of historical perception and so on. You are only having a cheap rant. You are not offering an understanding of anything. And yours is a widely known rant. Painfully ordinary, based on personal failure and good old misogyny. Grow up.
Tl:dr; You are spewing low quality bullshit. That doesn't work around here. If you really followed the forum before joining as you said, you didn't get a thing.
could you quote me where I said something that indicated that I'm misogynistic.?
also, making restitution to those who are harmed by European bigotry is often impossible nowadays because we cant raise people drom the dead.
But affirmative action is better than no action at all.
Quote
Finally; oh, that makes it better then. The people who sold them against their will was evil, so it was okay-ish to do evil things to the people who were taken against their will. Brilliant logic there.
Im not saying that. That would be absurd.
Quote from: wolf39us on June 27, 2014, 10:36:31 AM
I don't dabble into this subject much so bear with me here. I'm confused as to how restitution is an appropriate solution 200 years after the fact?
The African Americans of today have nothing to do with slavery so what is there to pay back?
I've always felt that the appropriate response for free men of liberty would be to oppose slavery where ever it is found. There are still slaves in this world today. An appropriate restitution to the slaves of 200 years ago would be to make sure that no human being ever has to suffer being the possession of another ever again.
Quote from: wolf39us on June 27, 2014, 10:36:31 AM
I don't dabble into this subject much so bear with me here. I'm confused as to how restitution is an appropriate solution 200 years after the fact?
The African Americans of today have nothing to do with slavery so what is there to pay back?
There are people out there making the case that actual cash reparations are justified. I'm not going to make that case, but, for example, vox.com has had several articles on it. I am going to argue that "The African Americans of today have nothing to do with slavery so what is there to pay back?" Isn't as sound a statement as it may seem.
The median household wealth of African Americans is roughly $85,000 less then that of whites. The income gap is nearly $27,500. How did this come about? Is it primarily--or exclusively--the fault of African Americans? That is the position of a majority of Americans, but we also have to look at this historically. How big a shadow does slavery cast? Some have argued that the value of slaves in America was equal to the national income at the time. And, of course, these slaves were used to build wealth for others while being prohibited from building their own wealth or the tools--education, land ownership, owning any assets at all--necessary to build wealth later. And once freed the former slaves weren't given a fair shot at accumulating wealth; they faced nearly one hundred years of institutional racism, exploitation, debt peonage, being bared from voting and education and . . . . Those arguing for reparations would point out that, on top of the actual historical wealth and potential to generate wealth, African Americans have been denied compound interest on the wealth they should have had.
I'm not convinced by the reparations argument, but let us not pretend that African Americans have suddenly arrived in 21st century America with a level playing field and "nothing to do with slavery"
But what confuses me is what stops anyone black or white from hitting up college and furthering their education? What stops anyone black or white from getting the job they want? To become an engineer? To become a scientist? To become President?
The way things are setup right now, I can walk into any college I want and walk out with a Pell Grant and loans to back me up filled with online classes and in 2-4 years walk out with a degree and I'm white! A person of color will get all of that and scholarships that I could never qualify for as well.
Racism is alive and well, I won't say it isn't... but I don't believe it's as rampant as some would like to say.
The idea behind affirmative action was to provide opportunity where none was previously available. In the real world, you can take 2 people- one of color and one white- who were raised in different environments. Even with equal intelligence and skills, an early detrmination was made that the white environment was more conducive to success because it offered less obstacles and more opportunity than the other environment. That is the basis for affirmative action.
Quote from: wolf39us on June 27, 2014, 01:48:36 PM
But what confuses me is what stops anyone black or white from hitting up college and furthering their education? What stops anyone black or white from getting the job they want? To become an engineer? To become a scientist? To become President?
The way things are setup right now, I can walk into any college I want and walk out with a Pell Grant and loans to back me up filled with online classes and in 2-4 years walk out with a degree and I'm white! A person of color will get all of that and scholarships that I could never qualify for as well.
Racism is alive and well, I won't say it isn't... but I don't believe it's as rampant as some would like to say.
I for one am not going to judge based on race generally, but I do believe that a black man raised in a ghetto or inner city neighborhood where gangs and poverty are the norm is not going to have the same opportunities to succeed as a middle class white guy from the suburbs.
I have Hispanic neighbors. One of their primary desires is to move away from those Barrio environments to places like white suburbia because they can put their kids in school with the white kids. Brown doesn't stand out like black, and they are accepted much more readily. Hispanics are a growing force in our society for that reason and I am happy for them.
One who lives in the ghetto can't get out? What does living in the ghetto have anything to do with going to school? Surely you can get there...
I don't believe that people who were born into an unfortunate environment can't dig themselves out.
So you grow up and find out that the world owes you something because of some terrible shit that happened to your ancestors... Now what? You just accept that you are some rug rat from the streets that won't get opportunity?
Quote from: wolf39us on June 27, 2014, 02:15:45 PM
One who lives in the ghetto can't get out? What does living in the ghetto have anything to do with going to school? Surely you can get there...
I don't believe that people who were born into an unfortunate environment can't dig themselves out.
Says the person who probably never grew up in such an environment.
-Nam
do the Turks owe the Armenians reparations for the Armenian genocide?
Do the brittish owe restitution to the Irish?
Quote from: wolf39us on June 27, 2014, 02:15:45 PM
One who lives in the ghetto can't get out? What does living in the ghetto have anything to do with going to school? Surely you can get there...
I don't believe that people who were born into an unfortunate environment can't dig themselves out.
So you grow up and find out that the world owes you something because of some terrible shit that happened to your ancestors... Now what? You just accept that you are some rug rat from the streets that won't get opportunity?
Sure, and many people have. But the point is they have to. Did you have to dig yourself out of a white suburban upbringing?
You don't deserve a debate because your stance is not debatable. You're full of shit, self serving, in denial of actual history preferring instead to cherry pick a handful of bad examples that don't stand up to scrutiny and right off the bat called me bitch and now you're butthurt because I won't stroke your frail ego and be sympathetic with your obvious persecution complex. But keep up your whiney bullshit and tell us how you're being persecuted by everyone who doesn't agree with your bullshit.
In fact, I might even go so far as to say you should get a fucking ignorant check. You're not much good for anything else so go apply.
Quote from: stromboli on June 27, 2014, 03:13:29 PM
Sure, and many people have. But the point is they have to. Did you have to dig yourself out of a white suburban upbringing?
I went to school, graduated and got a job making $6/hr (minimum wage). I stayed at my parent's house until I was 21 and found a girlfriend to split expenses with. I didn't make any decent money for a good amount of time and got lucky with a Cable job making decent wages.
In this sense, I "worked" my way up and managed to gtfo of that area. My parents gave me a roof over my head and food, that was it... the rest I got by working my ass off.
I don't understand why anyone would want to get a job they are not qualified for just because of their race, sex, or religion, I sure wouldn't. What happened to me for many art jobs as well as others was that I was told I was "OVER QUALIFIED" FOR THE JOB, ONE I DID GET AFTER A PERSON COULDN'T DO THE JOB AND QUIT. On my last job a person that wasn't qualified for the job clamed he was being discriminated on the job because of his religious beliefs and sued, he didn't win. The problem I see is that the rich have more opportunities than the poor, not because of race, or gender. If women get paid less than men and are as qualified or better I would hire them before any man that wasn't. Sounds great until it usually happens because women are qualified but second class citizens in our society, as well as different races. Let's see how the next president of the United States a woman pans out. He! He! :pidu: :biggrin2: Solitary
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on June 27, 2014, 03:28:25 PM
Youi don't deserve a debate because your stance is not debatable. You're full of shit, self serving, in denial of actual history preferring instead to cherry pick a handful of bad examples that don't stand up to scrutiny and right off the bat called me bitch and now you're butthurt because I won't stroke your frail ego and be sympathetic with your obvious persecution complex. But keep up your whiney bullshit and tell us how you're being persecuted by everyone who doesn't agree with your bullshit.
In fact, I might even go so far as to say you should get a fucking ignorant check. You're not much good for anything else so go apply.
when did I say anybody was persecuting me? you're the one seems to be PMSing and moaning like you're extremely butthurt about something.
no one here is persecuting me, I've actually benefited from the insightful posters.
you don't happen to be one of them. if you knew my sense of humor you would know that the college bitch thing I said was actually amusing to me because I think it is quite funny when people are proud of their college education. From what ive seen, college can be quite a joke.
back to the restitution issue. I wish people would talk more about the atrocities of Israel against the Palestinians. I don't see a first world nation on the planet as racist as Israel. I believe they owe restitution and a Palestinian state because nothing gave them the right to go into another person's country and use military force to kick them off their land.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on June 27, 2014, 07:10:14 PM
And you asked me to show you how you are being misogynistic. Yes, you are acting the way APA described. You do not need to write a post including a direct sentence. And you are also misogynistic.
And this is expressed in several posts to you by different people. Writing a surprising, when did I? , how did I , where did I? you are the one..... post don't change your position.
Frankly, you are annoying and you are stupid. And the more you post here with the same tone, the more annoying and stupid you get.
thank you for showing us all that you're a f****** idiot. you declare with certainty that Im misogynistic when you can't provide one single misogynistic statement I have made. Go back and you will find that I said its bullshit that women could not vote, and they should be allowed to have any job that a man can do if they have the qualifications and abilities.
also if you will go back and read, I said women should be allowed to be in the NBA and NFL. I also can't wait till we get a good female president of the United States. All of those comments are the exact opposite of misogynistic views. So you're declaring with certainty that I'm a massageinastick only goes to show that you are a f****** moron and you dont know what the word misogynist means.. Case closed! :-)
Forget anything I've posted on here. This whole thread is idiotic.
Way to go! Just piss off everyone. I'd suggest insulting all the mods while you're at it then deny it.
A fucking genius! Damn!
Quote from: Jason78 on June 27, 2014, 12:26:53 PM
I've always felt that the appropriate response for free men of liberty would be to oppose slavery where ever it is found. There are still slaves in this world today. An appropriate restitution to the slaves of 200 years ago would be to make sure that no human being ever has to suffer being the possession of another ever again.
Amen! I think giving American citizenship to those fleeing war and starvation in the third world is another form of reparation.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on June 27, 2014, 07:34:26 PM
You can type 'fuck' freely.
No, I am saying that you are just plain stupid, because you are. In fact you are so genuinely stupid, you are not even aware of what you are talking about what, when complaining about what. We arrived to the fifth page, you still don't know what is affirmative action.
Affirmative action is employment equity and the policy of providing special opportunities for and favoring members of a disadvantaged group who suffer discrimination.
if you had actually read my posts you would see where I said affirmative action is better than no action. There are errors in how aa plays out.
Quote from: shortbusgangsta on June 27, 2014, 07:44:10 PM
Affirmative action is employment equity and the policy of providing special opportunities for and favoring members of a disadvantaged group who suffer discrimination.
if you had actually read my posts you would see where I said affirmative action is better than no action. There are errors in how aa plays out.
Dude, now you're a plagiarist. Hell, perhaps you always were.
-Nam
Quote from: wolf39us on June 27, 2014, 10:36:31 AM
I don't dabble into this subject much so bear with me here. I'm confused as to how restitution is an appropriate solution 200 years after the fact?
The African Americans of today have nothing to do with slavery so what is there to pay back?
Slavery ended 200 years ago but that was followed by at least another 100 years of systemic discrimination in the form of segregation and Jim Crow laws. That only ended within my lifetime.
Though I can't see reparations ever going through.
The case for reparations is pretty clear cut. Pretending institutional discrimination hasn't existed since slavery is plain bullshit. It still exists to this day in the form of the new Jim Crow of mass incarceration and the never ending WOD.
On a different note it appears the OP tried to walk back stupid. It doesn't work that way.
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on June 28, 2014, 10:30:06 AM
The case for reparations is pretty clear cut. Pretending institutional discrimination hasn't existed since slavery is plain bullshit.
I never claimed any such thing.
The only point I was trying to make with the op is dont feel guilty for hiring the person most qualified for a job, regardless of race or gender.
Quote from: Solitary on June 27, 2014, 03:55:06 PM
I don't understand why anyone would want to get a job they are not qualified for just because of their race, sex, or religion, I sure wouldn't. What happened to me for many art jobs as well as others was that I was told I was "OVER QUALIFIED" FOR THE JOB, ONE I DID GET AFTER A PERSON COULDN'T DO THE JOB AND QUIT. On my last job a person that wasn't qualified for the job clamed he was being discriminated on the job because of his religious beliefs and sued, he didn't win. The problem I see is that the rich have more opportunities than the poor, not because of race, or gender. If women get paid less than men and are as qualified or better I would hire them before any man that wasn't. Sounds great until it usually happens because women are qualified but second class citizens in our society, as well as different races. Let's see how the next president of the United States a woman pans out. He! He! :pidu: :biggrin2: Solitary
Great post!
You're also full of shit trying to walk back your stupid.
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on June 28, 2014, 02:58:44 PM
You're also full of shit trying to walk back your stupid.
quit PMSing like a whiny incoherent crack whore on the rag!
Wtf r you talking about little girl? Leave this thread please!
says the stupid bitch who accuses me of misogyny when my statements are actually the opposite of misogyny. Pease learn your vocabulary you stupid bitch!
Quote from: shortbusgangsta on June 28, 2014, 03:01:36 PM
quit PMSing like a whiny incoherent crack whore on the rag!
Wtf r you talking about little girl? Leave this thread please!
Awww..dipshit's trying to hurt my feelings. How cute.
Shoe's the only one here who can hurt my feelings.
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on June 28, 2014, 03:07:35 PM
Awww..dipshit's trying to hurt my feelings. How cute.
Shoe's the only one here who can hurt my feelings.
how about you stop feeding my thread please. you can let it die or you can make it 10 pages long, your choice numbnuts!
if my statement hurt your feelings you're obviously a bigger pussy than I thought.
so far since you've come to this thread you have not offered one piece of logical information. All you have done is piss and moan with a pitifull display of incoherent menstruation. Please fuck off and stop returning to this thread! Gratias! :butt:
says the ignorant cunt who makes bold assertions while remaining ignorant of what the words actually mean!
this thread is supposed to be about affirmative action, not cunt decorating
Shoe's not JUST a cunt.. That's MISS Anti American Mahn Eating Cunt. Geeez..
I apologize for the American bad manners Shoe..
I hold you in much higher esteem.
well that's very nice I'm glad that you have informed me. Yes the Ottoman Empire was so much more gentle and humane than America.
back to the topic. Could you let me know which part of the OP is false?
Sorry, you've been deemed shallow and boring. #click#
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on June 28, 2014, 03:47:45 PM
Sorry, you've been deemed shallow and boring. #click#
great cop out for someone who cannot offer an explanation of which part of the OP is false. Thank you, my point you have reinforced, dumbass!
and thank you for what appears to be your exiting this thread. Please do not come back.
I apologize to drunkenshoe for calling her stupid bitch!
she seems to be the only other person here willing to not minimize or justify the atrocities committed by Israel which I respect. We in America have our heads up Israel's ass especially with our war on terror and a media that only tells half the story.
Quote from: shortbusgangsta on June 28, 2014, 08:35:32 PM
I apologize to drunkenshoe for calling her stupid bitch!
Calm thy tits, sugarplum.
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on June 28, 2014, 11:47:31 PM
Calm thy tits, sugarplum.
Only cuz you asked so nicely dumplin bunz!
But I hope drunkenshoe will keep degrading me. I like the abuse :butt: