http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/03/28/1288037/-Virginia-Christian-school-forces-eight-year-old-girl-to-leave-because-she-looks-too-much-like-a-boy?detail=email
Surprised no one's mentioned this, but a Christian school in Virginia is in the spotlight after all but forcing an eight-year-old student to leave because she looks like a boy. Eight-year-old Sunnie Kahle has had her hair cut short since she was five years old, and makes no secret she's a tomboy. Well, Sunnie's appearance didn't sit too well with administrators at Timberlake Christian School in Forest, near Lynchburg. Last month, her grandparents pulled her out of school after she was told her appearance didn't line up with "biblical standards."
It implies that Sunnie is being "counseled" about her gender identity. Thompson was gobsmacked. She said that Sunnie is way too young to understand things like sexual orientation, and suspects the real reason is that she wanted to wear boys' pants with her school uniform. In a reply of her own, Doris tore TCS a new one, pointing out that Sunnie is actually being counseled for mood swings. Soon afterward, she pulled Sunnie out of TCS and enrolled her in public school.
TCS' response is par for the course in an area of the country where a woman or girl with short hair is automatically suspected of being a lesbian. Also, according to the school's Website, it is an outreach of Timberlake Baptist Church, an independent Baptist church in Lynchburg.
Yesterday, after several days of being kicked up, down and sideways over this, TCS went up the highway and asked Liberty Counsel to help defend it. In a response released through Liberty Counsel, TCS claimed that it never called Sunnie sexually immoral, and that the real locus of the dispute is that Sunnie reportedly wanted to use the boys' bathroom. Sorry, but TCS is lying. What conclusion are you supposed to draw from this paragraph in the letter that Thompson got from the school?
"You’re probably aware that Timberlake Christian Schools is a religious, Bible-believing Institution providing education in a distinctly Christian environment, and we believe that our biblical role is to work in conjunction with the home to mold students to be Christlike, On those occasions in which the atmosphere or conduct within a particular home is counter to or in opposition to the biblical lifestyle that the school teaches, the school reserves the right, within its sole discretion, to refuse admission of an applicant or to discontinue enrollment of a student. This includes, but is not necessarily limited to, living in, condoning or supporting sexual immorality; practicing homosexual lifestyle or alternative gender identity; promoting such practices; or otherwise having the inability to support the moral principles of the school. We base this standard on Bible principles as found in Leviticus 20:13a; Romans 1:21-27; Matthew 19:4-6; and I Corinthians 6:9-20."
Holy shit, Sherlock! How fucked up is this country getting? Now girls can't be tomboys but have to dress, act and appear as little girls by biblical standards. Well, it's a christian school. I guess they can do what they want.
Damned..my sister and daughters all had short hair. Even though they all have children of their own it's pretty obvious that they're all lesbians living with men just for cover from gods wrath.
Too girlie, and you're beaten to death, too boyish and you're expelled. Religion and bigotry are still running rampant, resisting the ongoing progressive change really hard. :pray:
Well, at least the girl is gonna be free from Christian indoctrination from a Christian school, right?
This sounds like something out of /r/NewsOfTheStupid.
I'm sure if you look hard enough there's a verse in the bible that explicitly says that a girl acting like a tomboy is immoral. You just have to look hard enough... :wall:
If only little girls could be ripped directly from their good Christian father's rib cages. They could avoid that sinful filthy fucking process entirely!
Quote from: josephpalazzo on March 30, 2014, 01:13:42 AM
I'm sure if you look hard enough there's a verse in the bible that explicitly says that a girl acting like a tomboy is immoral. You just have to look hard enough... :wall:
1 Corinthians 11 says that women need to have long hair (and men short)--and says that women need to have their head covered when they pray "because of the angels", what ever the fuck that means--and I think there is another new testament part about them not using men's clothing. My christian high school never enforced that women needed long hair, but they did require the boys not to have long hair.
Quote from: Poison Tree on March 30, 2014, 01:44:59 AM
1 Corinthians 11 says that women need to have long hair (and men short)--and says that women need to have their head covered when they pray "because of the angels", what ever the fuck that means--and I think there is another new testament part about them not using men's clothing. My christian high school never enforced that women needed long hair, but they did require the boys not to have long hair.
What about when women bleed, don't the men have to run for cover, or something to that effect?
Oh yeah, when they bleed don't look at them or you'll turn into a zombie pillar of salt.
If Timberlake Christian Schools had really wanted to follow Leviticus, why didn't they get the girl stoned, or sell her to a slave trader?
Quote from: Poison Tree on March 30, 2014, 01:44:59 AM
1 Corinthians 11 says that women need to have long hair (and men short)--and says that women need to have their head covered when they pray "because of the angels", what ever the fuck that means--and I think there is another new testament part about them not using men's clothing. My christian high school never enforced that women needed long hair, but they did require the boys not to have long hair.
Paul wrote 1 Corinthians. Paul was a Roman. Regardless of his statement, Jewish men were prone to beards and long hair. Christ in any form is never depicted with short hair. But short hair on women was a disgrace. Cutting or shaving the hair of a woman was a form of punishment.
:wtff: :oak: :madu: Solitary
This is so crazy! When I went to church, there was always talk of women "not dressing like men" (whatever that meant), or dressing "as befits a Christian woman" (whatever that means) and other such blahblahblah, but many women had short hair and nobody called them out on it. Lots of girls are tomboys--although I really hate that word. It implies that there is something abnormal about a girl who likes doing some of the things boys do, such as climbing trees, playing with Matchbox cars, etc. But boys are similarly labeled as "sissies" if they like doing girly things, like playing dress-up. I hate all this derogatory labeling of children who should be allowed to dress and play in ways that make them comfortable.
Women to religion:
Look too "womanly": You deserved to be harassed or raped because you were too attractive and didn't cover yourself.
Look too "manly": You deserved to be harassed because you aren't womanly. Why don't you want to look womanly, it's what we expect of you and you will be much better off.
The moral of the story; if you are a woman you lose at life, period. The Bible/Quran/Torah says so, and those guys in the desert sure knew a thing or two about how to treat women.
This is crazy for so many reasons (lolreligion), but even still, they're getting way too worried about the behavior of a very young girl. They're putting very adult concepts of gender roles on her which are utterly meaningless at this point. Here is a non-exhaustive list of things my five-year-old girl is interested in:
- Barbies
- Dinosaurs
- Disney princesses
- Zombies
- Fantasy weddings
- Pirates
- Tea parties
- Castlevania
- Arts and crafts
- Rather violently horsing around
- Jake and the Neverland Pirates
- My Little Pony
- Scooby Doo
Trying to apply any type of gender or sexual-orientation rubric to that is just
insane.
New candidate for most terrifying nightmare:
"zombie Disney princesses riding dinosaurs to a fantasy wedding"
Quote from: Poison Tree on April 02, 2014, 12:53:30 AM
New candidate for most terrifying nightmare:
"zombie Disney princesses riding dinosaurs to a fantasy wedding"
Terrifying? That sounds
awesome!On a related note: a few days ago, my daughter said "The princesses are going to the cemetery to watch the dinosaurs. Only princesses can do that."
Makes sense. If the dinosaurs are all dead, you might as well start looking in the cemetery.
Quote from: RobbyPants on April 01, 2014, 10:26:49 PM
Here is a non-exhaustive list of things my five-year-old girl is interested in:
- Barbies
- Dinosaurs
- Disney princesses
- Zombies
- Fantasy weddings
- Pirates
- Tea parties
- Castlevania
- Arts and crafts
- Rather violently horsing around
- Jake and the Neverland Pirates
- My Little Pony
- Scooby Doo
(http://global3.memecdn.com/parenting-level-awesome_o_298416.webp)
Parenting Level: Awesome!
That news report irked me.
I think the school tried to claim that the grandparents (the girl is in their custody for whatever reason) took things straight to the media instead of trying to work things out with them... but if you read their letter [especially the paragraph in the OP], there's not much to work out. They stated their views, said her "gender identity" wasn't godly to them and thus disruptive, and that she would have to change or be kicked out. I can't imagine what kind of negotiation was plausible there.
And the girl seems to have a female gender identity (she thinks of herself as a girl), she's just into lots of things that are stereotypically boyish.
Quote from: Poison Tree on April 02, 2014, 12:53:30 AM
New candidate for most terrifying nightmare:
"zombie Disney princesses riding dinosaurs to a fantasy wedding"
Nightmare? That sounds like a GOOD dream or my new idea for a picture or short story. :)
... then again, I'm not a conservative fundie....
What is funny to me is that at that age, my daughter was kicking butt on all the boys and outperforming them in sports. Actually got thrown out of a soccer for being too rough. She was upset, but I bought her ice cream and told her how proud I was of her. :biggrin:
What did they expect when they decided to send little Suzie to a fundie school? No doubt it's fuckin stupid that the school did this, but you can't say it was entirely unexpected. Pet a badger and you're liable to get bit.
Why did the girl have to act like a boy. This is what is wrong with this country. You got boys acting like girls and girls acting like boys. This all started when stupid liberals demanded we take corporal punishment out of the classroom. Now kids are fornicating in the classrooms and there are massive drug problems. We need to beat some cents into these children.
Quote from: follower_of_jesus on April 03, 2014, 01:30:14 PM
Why did the girl have to act like a boy. This is what is wrong with this country. You got boys acting like girls and girls acting like boys. This all started when stupid liberals demanded we take corporal punishment out of the classroom. Now kids are fornicating in the classrooms and there are massive drug problems. We need to beat some cents into these children.
Have I reminded you how much of an idiot you are today? You just need beaten for shits n giggles.
Threatening with physical violence when someone points out atheist hypocrisy. Not surprised one bit by that. Without God there are no morals and that is why you would threaten to inflict violence on me. By preaching God here I threaten your life of immorality.
Oh my.. an xtian espousing non violence!
But wait! It gets better!
It seems I read this just 2 posts ago about children:
QuoteWe need to beat some cents into these children.
Now I'm no Rhodes scholar, but correct me if that doesn't sound like a threat of violence against children.
Sorry to call you a mere idiot. You're a flaming fucking asswipe.
That isn't violence, that is something called parenting. By punishing you are teaching that a behavior is bad and needs to be corrected. If the parents of this article beat this poor confused of a soul child. Then she would of acted like a girl and not like a boy.
Nott only are you a flaming fucking asswipe, you're a menace to society and should be prohibited from being near children.
And don't have the "cents" "god gave you" ..You certainly don't have sense.
If your parent gave you a good smack on the bottom, maybe you wouldn't have rejected God and worshiped your own narcissism yourself. Luckily God does not hold grudges and he will let you back in whenever you come to your senses and repent.
Doesn't hold grudges? You mean like burning people for eternity? Yeah, that's not a grudge at all.
Quote from: follower_of_jesus on April 03, 2014, 01:30:14 PMWe need to beat some cents into these children.
Cents? Like pennies, or is any kind of change good? Are you advocating punching children while holding a roll of quarters?
Quote from: follower_of_jesus on April 03, 2014, 02:22:33 PM
That isn't violence, that is something called parenting. By punishing you are teaching that a behavior is bad and needs to be corrected. If the parents of this article beat this poor confused of a soul child. Then she would of acted like a girl and not like a boy.
Now, we all obviously know you meant "sense" in the last post. That being said, you equate "punishment" with "beating someone until they see things your way"?
You sound like a real peach, but then again, you probably get your morality from the Bible.
I do not equate punishment with beating till they see things my way. I equate punishment as leading my children to the ways of Jesus Christ and God.
Quote from: follower_of_jesus on April 03, 2014, 04:55:07 PM
I do not equate punishment with beating till they see things my way. I equate punishment as leading my children to the ways of Jesus Christ and God.
That sounds more like abuse.
No way this guy's for real. Advocating for the non-violent indoctrination of children via beatings is pretty funny though.
Its only considered abuse now because of you God hating liberals forced schools, churches, and parents with lawsuits and criminal suits from being able to properly punish their children. That is why children are so rude these days, and go about fornicating with anything that'll return the favor.
Sounds like someone can't get laid.
Quote from: follower_of_jesus on April 03, 2014, 05:06:49 PM
Its only considered abuse now because of you God hating liberals forced schools, churches, and parents with lawsuits and criminal suits from being able to properly punish their children. That is why children are so rude these days, and go about fornicating with anything that'll return the favor.
LoL! I guess that explains why the more religious southern states that do allow corporal punishment in schools lag so far behind the states that don't in education rankings.
Aww.....How come I always miss the fun posters because they flame out so fast? :(
Quote from: RobbyPants on April 03, 2014, 02:45:07 PM
Cents? Like pennies, or is any kind of change good? Are you advocating punching children while holding a roll of quarters?
Yeah, sounded like a bad penny to me...
I do better with the morning star and cat o' nine tails.
Anyway, here's where I see these guys applying rules externally to whip their kids into line (often literally) than actually engaging their children on a personal level to guide them.
Well I played house as a child (I'm a boy) and I liked coloring books, so i guess I'm not good enough to go to a christian school :P, but this raises the question, can a school legally do this? Im a libertarian, so i think yeah let them be stupid, what does everyone else think?
Quote from: Contemporary Protestant on April 09, 2014, 12:10:11 AM
this raises the question, can a school legally do this?
I'm not intimate with all the particular laws, but I believe that a private (especially religious) school is [not necessarily aught] given a lot of leeway regarding who they allow in and who they keep/kick out--even public schools are granted massive benefit of the doubt by the courts if they want to violate kids rights in an [supposed] attempt to protect them. If the state had a strong anti-discrimination law then there might be grounds for a lawsuit, but the school would just come up with some other pretext for expelling her.
Yeah, private religious schools do not receive government funding and are exempt from many of the regulations would affect a public school. This allows them to control the admissions policy for their facility, for example, as well as tailor their curriculums.
Appparently these kinds of "religious academies" were one way that people against de-segregation had used to keep their white kids separate from black kids after the civil rights laws were passed in the USA.
I don't like private schools, they create a delusion about the real world, I have gone to public school my whole life and don't see whats wrong with public schools
Quote from: Contemporary Protestant on April 09, 2014, 11:38:36 AM
I don't like private schools, they create a delusion about the real world, I have gone to public school my whole life and don't see whats wrong with public schools
Precisely. A child needs to know about the world as it is so that when they grow up and venture on their own, they will be able to adapt and overcome obstacles in life.
The only thing wrong with public schools that I can see, is much of the hatred and misconceptions from numerous households can spill forth into the school via children's behaviors and the action of the teachers. Without someone there to counter bullying and teach children coping skills, you end up with a recipe for disaster. In worse case scenarios, you end up with bullycide and can quite literally lose a generation of children.
Children will never be immune from the meme wars of the parents. It tends to trickle down one way or another.
Well those conflicts reflect the real world, if I lived in a bubble with out racism (Im not racist but other people are)
I wouldn't be prepared to deal with it
Quote from: follower_of_jesus on April 03, 2014, 01:30:14 PM
Why did the girl have to act like a boy. This is what is wrong with this country. You got boys acting like girls and girls acting like boys. This all started when stupid liberals demanded we take corporal punishment out of the classroom. Now kids are fornicating in the classrooms and there are massive drug problems. We need to beat some cents into these children.
Girls act like boys and boys act like girls because human nature doesn't fit neatly into preconceived boxes. Like with most things in life, there is a spectrum or a gradient. Human behavior is no different. The only thing unnatural is the idea of any human being that is 100% masculine or 100% feminine, since a person is unbalanced without attributes from both behavior styles (poorly labeled though they may be).
Curtailing the natural behavior of a child, especially with violence or threat of violence wouldn't work on a very young child, since they are unable to comprehend complex concepts yet. Corrective measures such as teaching children not to hurt animals because they feel pain just like you do is probably the most complex issue you can hope to achieve at this time. Correcting a child for exhibiting boyish or girlish behavior is meaningless to a child who has yet to understand what makes a boy a boy or a girl a girl.
Furthermore, when a child does become old enough to understand such concepts, they will also learn that you and the rest of society are lying when you tell them to be themselves. Using violence to enforce the "correct" gender appropriate behavior will only increase the child's distrust in you.
Lastly, promiscuity has nothing to do with the gender identity of a person. Lack of sufficient sexual education, lack of sense of responsibility, and poorly understood concepts of cause and effect are what lead to promiscuity. Much of the southern U.S. is full of people who do not wish for their children to be taught sexual education; who do not teach their children how to be responsible in matters pertaining to sexual health, respecting themselves, respecting others, and assessing what it means to be a parent; and do not delineate to their children the direct link between sexual activity and STDs, pregnancy, and potential promiscuity.
It helps to know what exactly it is you're "beating" into a child before you commence to waylaying on them like some chimpanzee.
Justin bieber is lucky to never studied in that school. He would not last long there for looking like a girl anyway.