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Extraordinary Claims => Religion General Discussion => Islam => Topic started by: no-excuses on March 29, 2014, 08:51:52 PM

Title: why Islam has zero tolerance for criticism?
Post by: no-excuses on March 29, 2014, 08:51:52 PM
we all remember the low budget crappy movie on youtube that was targeting and insulting Muhammed. and we, for sure recall the consequences for that action...Globally.
Now, why Islam has zero tolerance toward crossing the red lines?
I will go a head and assume that islam is probably the only well known and global religion that absolutely don't tolerate criticism...It is like an unconditional love. there is always or at least most of the times a tendency for violence and agitation.

Literacy and poetry were so important among Arab before Islam that people who were good at it were actually very respected and wealthy..they were pleasing kings and amusing the public..the art of using the language was a fundamental part of their heritage. without it, you wouldn't be able to describe Arab!

So that was briefly the environment in which Mohammed started his campaign for Islam....
Of course Qura'an is the main script and if you didn't know about this, Qura'an is written with top notch art of language technique..it literally appealed to people..

I'm a former Muslim and I read qura'an in original Arabic...when you translate qura'an to another language it loses it is power and influence comparing to the original Arabic in which the expression is almighty and everything is ten times magnified whether it is threatening or promising, also the way qura'an is usually been read with loud voice and some musical tone in it to produce an outcome of majestic opera like presentation.

To make it simple. It is like the difference between William Shakespeare and will-iam.

My point is..Muslims has been fed the majestic words of Qura'an with voices full of threat sometimes and promise heaven some other times..
Allah, Mohammed and Qura'an are the three re lines you don't want to cross. it is embedded in people's mind, it is representing everything...it is non-questionable...they will get violent. At least verbally.

Uneducated crowd will do anything they ill be told by the Mulla...so no surprises.
Title: Re: why Islam has zero tolerance of criticism?
Post by: kindagnostic123 on March 29, 2014, 09:34:42 PM
I know what you mean.  I cannot read Arabic, but I have read a book about the styles and themes of the Quran, and it truly is extraordinary in its power to describe and the intensity and power behind it, not to mention the utter beauty of it.

The reason why I think Islam has a difficult time tolerating criticism of it is because of its absolute and adamantine doctrines.  The more absolute the claims of a religion are, the more vulnerable it is to criticism, because it has to defend those absolutist claims on a weak basis.  It is known according to mainstream Islamic tradition, for instance, that Muhammad proposed to a six year old girl when he was in his early fifties and he had sexual intercourse with her (Aisha) when she was nine years old.  And mainstream orthodox Muslims know that, but at the same time they have very strong emotional attachments to the prophet Muhammad, so of course once this fact for instance is brought to light their insecurities are going to manifest themselves in the form of rage and even violence.

Back to the first point of my response, there are certain problems with automatically considering the Quran divine because of its extraordinary linguistic qualities.  One is the presence of unscientific verses in the Quran, such as the embryological verses for instance.  Another problem is the moral flaws present in many Quranic verses, such as the verses which can bring about a proclivity of anti-Semitism in the Muslim, etc.  Another verse noted for its moral flaw is the verse condoning marriages to pre-pubescent females.

I, and I am saying this as an ex-Muslim myself, believe that the Quran needs to be placed in its proper historical context in order for it to be studied and thus critically analyzed.  Once we do that, we can penetrate the secrets of this powerful book, and unlock its very heart.
Title: Re: why Islam has zero tolerance of criticism?
Post by: no-excuses on March 29, 2014, 09:55:00 PM
Qura'an does has linguistic qualities..but that doesn't make Qura'an unique because back then literacy was nourished and trending excessively. So coming up with a book like qura'an was challenging but still not as miraculous as nowadays muslim claim. 

I agree with you when it comes to the fact that certain insecurities are responsible for the outrage in many instances. But those insecurities were not targeted in the two infamous incidents were Mohammed (not Qura'an) were insulted, The Danemark incident and the youtube video.


Title: Re: why Islam has zero tolerance of criticism?
Post by: StupidWiz on March 29, 2014, 10:17:35 PM
Quote from: kindagnostic123 on March 29, 2014, 09:34:42 PMThe reason why I think Islam has a difficult time tolerating criticism of it is because of its absolute and adamantine doctrines.  The more absolute the claims of a religion are, the more vulnerable it is to criticism, because it has to defend those absolutist claims on a weak basis. 
Agreed, ironically this is what makes Islam more resilient than other religions. If you cannot mock it, question it or criticize it, you can't break the dogma, you can't make simple-minded people at least doubt. Only through disasters caused by so called extremists, the ugly face of Islam can sometimes be gazed upon. The da'wah always preach Islam as the religion of peace, and for the people who don't know and understand Islam better, they will just believe it, thus makes it easy for Islam to be accepted anywhere. Another irony is the only one who's being loud at criticising Islam is the other religion that has their own agenda, while atheists or ex-muslims who try to criticize it are labelled as racists and or "Islamophobes". it's a shame really.

Still remember the director that was killed because his movie insulted Islam's way of treating women? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theo_van_Gogh_%28film_director%29) or Indonesian man who's jailed just after he's beaten up by the mobs who didn't like his FB status saying "God doesn't exist"? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Aan) That's the true face of Islam. I wish outsiders could really see it and understand it so that the religion of peace nonsense can be easily rebutted.
Title: Re: why Islam has zero tolerance of criticism?
Post by: no-excuses on March 29, 2014, 10:32:09 PM
Quote from: StupidWiz on March 29, 2014, 10:17:35 PM
If you cannot mock it, question it or criticize it, you can't break the dogma, you can't make simple-minded people at least doubt.
That is the point...you can't really access people and simply talk to them.
Islam is the religion of peace....only if you obey it.
Title: Re: why Islam has zero tolerance of criticism?
Post by: Youssuf Ramadan on March 30, 2014, 06:22:16 AM
I think much of the problem lies in the link between church and state.  Islam certainly has its share of wingnuts residing in other countries too, but when any nonconformity is threatened with state violence, it is going to have the effect of fomenting sheep-like adherence.  Like someone alluded to above, the Qur'an is a book written by a seventh century Arab man, and needs to at least be interpreted in the context of the 21st century if it is to move with the times.  Unfortunately, many of the countries where islam is practised insulate their population from a decent education, one which would encourage people to question the bullshit.  Education is a key issue with this problem. And as long as the bloated absolute monarchies, tin-pot dictators etc. in some of these countries continue to be propped up by western governments, then radical islam is likely to continue to be a problem, and the blame is not solely on the inhabitants of these countries - it doesn't exist in isolation, but also in the context of resource issues, arms deals and dynastic squabbles.

The people need to be given the same opportunities that we've had over the last couple of hundred years.  They aren't going to get it with an iron-age religious world view....
Title: Re: why Islam has zero tolerance of criticism?
Post by: Cocoa Beware on June 10, 2014, 09:14:56 PM
One of the primary results of this inability to concede anything is that it keeps Muslims in check. Submit and never question this all-encompassing way of life. No mercy, no heaven, none of that will be realistic otherwise.

Another result is that the non-Muslim populations who inhabit the same area and are vulnerable to potential retribution are also held in check.

This is useful because it seems to compliment the long term agenda of Islam quite well for both Muslim and non-Muslim populations.

Allah reminds me a lot of how that other god used to act now that I think about it.
Title: Re: why Islam has zero tolerance of criticism?
Post by: Shol'va on June 10, 2014, 09:59:15 PM
I would say this holy book suffers from the same fatal flaw of all other holy books: it doesn't stand up to criticism, therefore it does not tolerate it.
Title: Re: why Islam has zero tolerance of criticism?
Post by: SGOS on June 11, 2014, 07:38:41 AM
Islam is like Christianity.  The same dynamics are at play, but it's more intense.  Take everything about Christianity and magnify it; The anger, hate, violence, victim status, intolerance, and blatant unquestioning stupidity are all exaggerated.  Religions are dangerous, and Islam is currently the most violent of today's religions.  We tend to make excuses for moderate Muslims, but Islam's violent factions are a growing threat, and powerful enough to take over Mosul.  This is no small undertaking, and people should stop talking about the religion of peace as if it presents no threat.
Title: Re: why Islam has zero tolerance of criticism?
Post by: frosty on June 11, 2014, 01:47:01 PM
Quote from: SGOS on June 11, 2014, 07:38:41 AM
Islam is like Christianity.  The same dynamics are at play, but it's more intense.  Take everything about Christianity and magnify it; The anger, hate, violence, victim status, intolerance, and blatant unquestioning stupidity are all exaggerated.  Religions are dangerous, and Islam is currently the most violent of today's religions.  We tend to make excuses for moderate Muslims, but Islam's violent factions are a growing threat, and powerful enough to take over Mosul.  This is no small undertaking, and people should stop talking about the religion of peace as if it presents no threat.

They've taken over a lot more than Mosul. I follow the developments in a very sparse and patchy way, but all across the globe they've taken over waaaaaay more than just Mosul. And even in the areas they don't control they do raids. These violent factions are powerful, bold, and if you want you can look at their stuff on Twitter like I do.
Title: Re: why Islam has zero tolerance of criticism?
Post by: SGOS on June 11, 2014, 03:59:01 PM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on June 11, 2014, 02:09:29 PM
https://news.yahoo.com/turkey-says-militants-hold-80-turks-hostage-iraqs-164140882.html
For some reason there are no international news on this...
NBC had something on the net about the fall of Mosul, but it was rather brief, and nothing about hostages so far.  At least that I've seen.  I would expect something this major in Iraq to dominate the news, but it's being overshadowed by what starlet wore the wrong dress at some gathering or other.
Title: Re: why Islam has zero tolerance of criticism?
Post by: DunkleSeele on June 12, 2014, 02:39:42 AM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on June 11, 2014, 02:09:29 PM
https://news.yahoo.com/turkey-says-militants-hold-80-turks-hostage-iraqs-164140882.html

For some reason there are no international news on this...
I've heard about it this morning on the radio.
Title: Re: why Islam has zero tolerance of criticism?
Post by: Brian37 on June 12, 2014, 07:37:44 AM
The more people make this argument against Islam, the more people miss the bigger picture of human behavior in terms of evolutionary psychology. Islam's current state is a matter of geography and time, not label. It was not that long ago that Christianity was as barbaric as Islam is in far too much of the east today. The only thing that makes Christianity MORE civil in the west is 200 years of secular law keeping it on a leash. Even with that there still are constant attempts to mix government and religion.

In terms of evolution OUR SPECIES does the same thing. We seek groups of like minded people to create safety in numbers. We sell superstitious patterns we call religion to maintain those groups. When we feel a threat to that pattern, we seek to protect that pattern. Fear of change and fear of the unknown are what cause our species to react natively to challenges to our social norms. Dawkins in his famous book "The God Delusion" describes this evolutionary behavior in an example of an alpha male bird in a flock reacting violently, even if the subordinate bird is offering a branch to help the alpha male build a nest.

Yes Islam is collectively far too stuck in the past in our modern world. I agree. But all religions produce this behavior for the same reason. The west simply has had more time to minimize the harm done by theocracy by demanding common law.

Title: Re: why Islam has zero tolerance of criticism?
Post by: SGOS on June 12, 2014, 07:41:25 AM
It won't be the first time that we've heard about something like this first on an international forum.  I've actually seen lag times of a month after something is first reported on a forum.  Finally, the media hears about it.
Title: Re: why Islam has zero tolerance of criticism?
Post by: frosty on June 12, 2014, 02:27:36 PM
Quote from: SGOS on June 12, 2014, 07:41:25 AM
It won't be the first time that we've heard about something like this first on an international forum.  I've actually seen lag times of a month after something is first reported on a forum.  Finally, the media hears about it.

Perhaps "lag" is actually the key word to describe it. The information is first reported on a so called obscure medium, then the mainstream media picks it up after it garners enough attention.
Title: Re: why Islam has zero tolerance of criticism?
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on June 12, 2014, 03:27:53 PM
The news media has to sell NutriSystems. After watching horrific scenes of battle we're interrupted by former fat ass movie star who lost 50 pounds.
Title: Re: why Islam has zero tolerance of criticism?
Post by: Brian37 on June 13, 2014, 07:37:12 AM
For the same reason Christianity did during the Dark Ages. Xenophobia and not enough exposure to the outside world. Paranoia and fear. And it does not help that the head character in both books is a tribal gang leader that expects submission and blind loyalty.
Title: Re: why Islam has zero tolerance of criticism?
Post by: MagetheEntertainer on June 28, 2014, 01:10:57 PM
I may be mistaken but isn't there only 1 version of the Koran as well, unlike the bible which has like 50 different interpretations of it?  That is probably one of the reasons why muslims think Islam is more absolute then Christians do.
Title: Re: why Islam has zero tolerance of criticism?
Post by: stromboli on June 28, 2014, 01:24:58 PM
Quote from: MagetheEntertainer on June 28, 2014, 01:10:57 PM
I may be mistaken but isn't there only 1 version of the Koran as well, unlike the bible which has like 50 different interpretations of it?  That is probably one of the reasons why muslims think Islam is more absolute then Christians do.

It isn't about how many versions but interpretation. The fact that Islam can call itself the religion of peace and yet provide justification for terrorism is a good explanation of that.
Title: Re: why Islam has zero tolerance of criticism?
Post by: frosty on June 29, 2014, 10:03:33 PM
There are numerous translations of the Quran, and certain words get lost in translation. The Arabic spoken at the alleged time of the Quran's origins is not spoken today.

So, consider how language changes over time. The oldschool Arabic is gone. The Arabic Quran of modern times is translated to many different languages, and Arabic either lacks certain words of other languages or has more than one meaning, or too many words of it's own to describe one thing compared to other languages. I've seen Muslims and other entities discuss and even argue over this before. It's a topic of passionate opinions and stances.

Also, I would gander that Muslims would claim that their book was not altered to then claim that there have the one correct religion from the creator of the Universe. Who wants to think everything they've been told is wrong? Nobody.
Title: Re: why Islam has zero tolerance for criticism?
Post by: Youssuf Ramadan on August 12, 2014, 06:52:53 AM
Apparently, the Qur'an did get interpreted into different versions not long after Mohammed's death.  The 3rd caliph Uthman recalled all the Qur'ans back in and recompiled what he thought was the original texts back together to create an 'authentic' version. But he had no real idea as to which of it was 'original' and which was not.  This makes the Qur'an just as fallible as any other book.  Not surprisingly, Muslims are unwilling to question the authenticity of their book, much less look into history to assess its origins.

Islamic 'behaviour' is controlled as much (if not more so) by the various hadiths and tafsirs that were written to interpret the Qur'an as by the Qur'an itself.  I understand for various sources that the Qur'an is very disjointed and difficult to access in many areas, despite repeated claims about the power of the language in various passages.  Hence the reliance in many cases on supplementary writings to interpret it.... and yes, there is some crazy shit in there too.  When I get a bit more time I'll try and set up some sort of thread on crazy-ass Islamic writings, it really is quite lulzworthy... or at least it would be if millions of people didn't take it seriously...
Title: Re: why Islam has zero tolerance for criticism?
Post by: Solitary on August 12, 2014, 01:13:14 PM
When I was still a child I thought religion was about making us better human with love and compassion, but with their promise of life after death it has made us worse than any animal from our ignorance, with a magical man in the heavens giving a reward in heaven for our barbarity to protect an imaginary God and His word. Religion is the worst disease, because it corrupts our humanity by taking away our individualism, making us Borgs, or a collective controlled by idiots. Solitary
Title: Re: why Islam has zero tolerance for criticism?
Post by: SGOS on August 12, 2014, 02:21:59 PM
Quote from: Brian37 on June 13, 2014, 07:37:12 AM
For the same reason Christianity did during the Dark Ages. Xenophobia and not enough exposure to the outside world. Paranoia and fear. And it does not help that the head character in both books is a tribal gang leader that expects submission and blind loyalty.
Then add a need to be offended at the first opportunity.  Take some umbrage.  Get pissed so Allah knows you defend him.  Watch your peers and see how offended they get.  See how they compete with each other to demonstrate who's the most offended?  It pleases Allah when you get upset when infidels don't believe in him, and he needs to know it really really bothers you or he won't let you into Heaven.
Title: Re: why Islam has zero tolerance for criticism?
Post by: Munch on August 12, 2014, 05:51:42 PM
Islamic people are a lot more primitive then other countries. You can measure human development across the world even today, when you look at studies of tribal groups in the amazon, Australia and Bolivia and how these tribal groups can be as primitive today as they were hundreds to even a few thousand years ago, you understand how certain types of people do take longer to develop then others, and given the harse landscape of islamic countries its no surprise they are as backwards as they are when compared to western countries.
this is why they are so hyped about their cave painting sky gods.
Title: Re: why Islam has zero tolerance for criticism?
Post by: Youssuf Ramadan on August 12, 2014, 06:03:04 PM
Quote from: Munch on August 12, 2014, 05:51:42 PM
Islamic people are a lot more primitive then other countries. You can measure human development across the world even today, when you look at studies of tribal groups in the amazon, Australia and Bolivia and how these tribal groups can be as primitive today as they were hundreds to even a few thousand years ago, you understand how certain types of people do take longer to develop then others, and given the harse landscape of islamic countries its no surprise they are as backwards as they are when compared to western countries.
this is why they are so hyped about their cave painting sky gods.

It's a self-perpetuating situation - the nobs at the top have a vested interested in keeping the peasants in fear, so deny them an access to education and maintain the grip of 7th century ideology over them, the peasants have to believe (or at least appear to believe) the shite in order to protect their own existence, tin-pot dictatorships and absolute monarchies are bankrolled by the west, the oil keeps flowing in, the arms keep flowing out, the dictators and the western neocons all make a profit and the whole farce continues....
Title: Re: why Islam has zero tolerance for criticism?
Post by: theorange4 on October 28, 2014, 09:17:31 PM
Quote from: no-excuses on March 29, 2014, 08:51:52 PM
we all remember the low budget crappy movie on youtube that was targeting and insulting Muhammed. and we, for sure recall the consequences for that action...Globally.
Now, why Islam has zero tolerance toward crossing the red lines?
I will go a head and assume that islam is probably the only well known and global religion that absolutely don't tolerate criticism...It is like an unconditional love. there is always or at least most of the times a tendency for violence and agitation.

Literacy and poetry were so important among Arab before Islam that people who were good at it were actually very respected and wealthy..they were pleasing kings and amusing the public..the art of using the language was a fundamental part of their heritage. without it, you wouldn't be able to describe Arab!

So that was briefly the environment in which Mohammed started his campaign for Islam....
Of course Qura'an is the main script and if you didn't know about this, Qura'an is written with top notch art of language technique..it literally appealed to people..

I'm a former Muslim and I read qura'an in original Arabic...when you translate qura'an to another language it loses it is power and influence comparing to the original Arabic in which the expression is almighty and everything is ten times magnified whether it is threatening or promising, also the way qura'an is usually been read with loud voice and some musical tone in it to produce an outcome of majestic opera like presentation.

To make it simple. It is like the difference between William Shakespeare and will-iam.

My point is..Muslims has been fed the majestic words of Qura'an with voices full of threat sometimes and promise heaven some other times..
Allah, Mohammed and Qura'an are the three re lines you don't want to cross. it is embedded in people's mind, it is representing everything...it is non-questionable...they will get violent. At least verbally.

Uneducated crowd will do anything they ill be told by the Mulla...so no surprises.


I am curious, if you could, give me an example of where the original Arabic version is more powerful than, say, an English version?

It might also be a teaching within Islam that creates less tolerance for criticism than Christianity. I have seen Christians intolerant of criticism, while others value it. It's hard to say that every islamic person acts in X way unless if you can support it.
Title: Re: why Islam has zero tolerance for criticism?
Post by: SGOS on October 29, 2014, 02:00:27 AM
Quote from: theorange4 on October 28, 2014, 09:17:31 PM

I am curious, if you could, give me an example of where the original Arabic version is more powerful than, say, an English version?

I've heard that before, and I think it's bullshit.  Facts is facts. Evidence is evidence.  No fact or evidence is going to be more powerful if given in a different language.  About the only thing that might be said in defense of this is that a specific language may make some specific poetic attempt seem more powerful, while it would add nothing to another bit of poetic stream originating in a different language.  Poetry depends on some unfathomable quality of language (defined specifically as poetry) to add power to whatever the fuck it is that poetry does.  But you don't formulate arguments in poetry.  You don't defend a serial killer in court using poetry, because poetry is a crappy way to truth. 

Poetry might lead to inspiration, but inspiration is not knowledge:  "Yeah, but I was so moved by that poetry that it brought  tears to my eyes and made me want to be a better person."   Well La Dee fucking Dah; Good for you.

It's possible that Arabic is a more poetic language, but I rather doubt it, and if it is, it hardly gives Arabs a leg up in reasoning.  Language may allow us to communicate, but it also creates traps of logical fallacy through language traps like equivocation.  It's one of man's greatest advantages, and one of his greatest downfalls.  It's a two edged sword.

When you want to manipulate, bamboozle, or con someone into believing nonsense, you use language to blind them.  It can be used for nefarious purposes.  So when someone says a thing is more powerful when said in Arabic, I don't know or care what that means.  Facts is facts.  Evidence is evidence.  And I'm not impressed with fancy pants rhetoric that makes it sound better in a different language.
Title: Re: why Islam has zero tolerance for criticism?
Post by: eylul on October 29, 2014, 06:49:24 AM
When you do the critic, you will see the bugs. And you will stay aganist the Islam. And if you know the bugs, they cant order you. "Das Kapital"s dont want that people if they dont pray the goverment. In these years you cant know if people are religious. Only you can know, they want more money or they want to become a slave live like a moron; eat, work, sleep. Its not about the religion guys. Arabia are muslims. And why didnt they help Gaza? Because money talks.
And I read qura'an in Arabic, still it has no mercy for the others. The selfish and egoistic religion ever.
Mohammed was a big revolutionist in those years. He changed many people, congratz him. He fooled many of them. But like all ex religions, this religion will become a myth. And poor me, i will not see those years.


It's simple, dont give meanings their acts.
Title: Re: why Islam has zero tolerance for criticism?
Post by: Mister Agenda on October 29, 2014, 09:41:23 AM
Zero tolerance seems like a low estimate of the degree of tolerance. If it was zero, wouldn't a billion Muslims have rioted over that movie instead of just a thousand or so?
Title: Re: why Islam has zero tolerance for criticism?
Post by: SGOS on October 29, 2014, 10:06:37 AM
Quote from: Mister Agenda on October 29, 2014, 09:41:23 AM
Zero tolerance seems like a low estimate of the degree of tolerance. If it was zero, wouldn't a billion Muslims have rioted over that movie instead of just a thousand or so?
I think zero tolerance was just an expression for "insulted easily" or maybe "insulted easier than even Christians."
Title: Re: why Islam has zero tolerance for criticism?
Post by: Munch on October 29, 2014, 12:39:55 PM
I'm looking forward to when the bible reloaded guys begin to talk about the stories written in the Quran, the same way they have for the bible stories.

I'm predicting while unlike christians, who were moderate to having there sacred book and its stories mocked, I believe Hugo and Jake will have images of them burned in the streets and rabid cries from Islamic extremists to have them publicly executed in the streets.

Now if your excuse me, I need to go draw a picture of Muhammad, and use it to pick up my cats shit from the little box with.
Title: Re: why Islam has zero tolerance for criticism?
Post by: Youssuf Ramadan on October 29, 2014, 12:56:09 PM
Quote from: Munch on October 29, 2014, 12:39:55 PM
Now if your excuse me, I need to go draw a picture of Muhammad, and use it to pick up my cats shit from the little box with.

Go one better and wrap your old pork chop bones in it!   :mrgreen:
Title: Re: why Islam has zero tolerance for criticism?
Post by: Deidre32 on January 19, 2015, 12:43:56 AM
I'm not sure Islam as a whole is to blame, as much as people who misinterpret it, or abuse it for their own gain. There is a lot of beauty in Islam, and I can say that for any religion. I don't need to believe in a deity to say that...it's just what I've come to learn. There is so much of the quiet Muslim community that we never hear from, we only hear what the mainstream media has to say about it, and they pervert truth, too. I have Muslim friends who moved from Syria to the US a few years ago. They are not so sensitive that they can't handle people speaking against their faith, but they say that living as a Muslim in the middle east, depending on where, is a whole different story. But, there are far more open minded, peaceful Muslims than there aren't. Just my thoughts.
Title: Re: why Islam has zero tolerance for criticism?
Post by: pr126 on January 19, 2015, 01:53:04 AM
Deidre32 wrote:
QuoteI'm not sure Islam as a whole is to blame, as much as people who misinterpret it, or abuse it for their own gain.
I would like you to read the Quran, (freely available on the Net), chapter 8 and 9 would be a good start.

Here is one: 

QuoteFor the worst of beasts in the sight of Allah are the deaf and the dumb,- those who understand not.
Quran 8:22

That means you, Deidre32.
Title: Re: why Islam has zero tolerance for criticism?
Post by: baronvonrort on January 19, 2015, 06:49:55 AM
Quote from: Deidre32 on January 19, 2015, 12:43:56 AM
I'm not sure Islam as a whole is to blame, as much as people who misinterpret it, or abuse it for their own gain. There is a lot of beauty in Islam

Islam is to blame, they have the death penalty for blasphemy.

QuoteMauritania

A court in Mauritania on Thursday sentenced a man to death for insulting the founder of Islam.
www.nytimes.com/2014/12/26/world/asia/death-sentence-in-mauritania-for-islam-insult.html?r=1 (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/26/world/asia/death-sentence-in-mauritania-for-islam-insult.html?r=1)


Is a muslim considered moderate if they support death for apostasy and blasphemy?
Title: Re: why Islam has zero tolerance for criticism?
Post by: Deidre32 on January 19, 2015, 09:26:48 AM
Quote from: pr126 on January 19, 2015, 01:53:04 AM
Deidre32 wrote:I would like you to read the Quran, (freely available on the Net), chapter 8 and 9 would be a good start.

Here is one: 
Quran 8:22

That means you, Deidre32.

I have read the Qur'an actually and the Hadith and there are many areas of it that I don't agree with, but not all Muslims hold a stringent orthodox view of the Qur'an. I'm not a supporter of religion, any religion, but I don't believe that we are at war with Islam, but rather extremists.

Far more Muslims are not violent and peaceful.
Title: Re: why Islam has zero tolerance for criticism?
Post by: Deidre32 on January 19, 2015, 09:28:05 AM
Quote from: baronvonrort on January 19, 2015, 06:49:55 AM
Islam is to blame, they have the death penalty for blasphemy.

Is a muslim considered moderate if they support death for apostasy and blasphemy?

The Bible has the same problems, too.