People are constantly told by apologists of Islam and their naive useful idiots that "Islam is a religion of peace" and that the "extremists", the terrorists, the Sharia law advocates, the Sharia regime leaders, basically any Muslim or Muslim group who doesn't act in accordance to western notions of human rights - these are all "hijacking the religion" and "midunderstanding" its peaceful tolerant teachings. Oh and it's also Murica's fault for their imperialism, without which they'd obviously embrace TRUE progressive Islam.
So let's discuss verse 9:29.
QuoteFight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.
Other translations say to make unbelievers "feel themselves subdued".
The Qur'an urges Muslims to make war upon non-Muslims and give them 3 choices: conversion, submission as dhimmis (2nd class citizens) or permanent conflict to the death.
We're constantly told that these verses are taken "out of context" by radical atheists and "Islamophobes", even though numerous scholars agree with the interpretation I just gave you and historically the Islamic caliphates have pursued this policy of aggressive expansion as commanded by scripture. Conquered lands became part of a caliphate, and non-Muslims subjected the dhimma.
So for example Ibn Kathir's commentary ( http://www.qtafsir.com (http://www.qtafsir.com) ) says:
Quote(Fight against those who believe not in Allah, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth among the People of the Scripture, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.) Therefore, when People of the Scriptures disbelieved in Muhammad , they had no beneficial faith in any Messenger or what the Messengers brought. Rather, they followed their religions because this conformed with their ideas, lusts and the ways of their forefathers, not because they are Allah's Law and religion. Had they been true believers in their religions, that faith would have directed them to believe in Muhammad , because all Prophets gave the good news of Muhammad's advent and commanded them to obey and follow him. Yet when he was sent, they disbelieved in him, even though he is the mightiest of all Messengers. Therefore, they do not follow the religion of earlier Prophets because these religions came from Allah, but because these suit their desires and lusts. Therefore, their claimed faith in an earlier Prophet will not benefit them because they disbelieved in the master, the mightiest, the last and most perfect of all Prophets . Hence Allah's statement,
A Shafi'i Sunni manual "Reliance of the Traveler" ( http://www.shafiifiqh.com/maktabah/reli ... veller.pdf (http://www.shafiifiqh.com/maktabah/relianceoftraveller.pdf) ) defines jihad as:
Quoteo9.0 JIHAD
(O: Jihad means to war against non-Muslims, and is etymologically derived from the word mujahada
signifying warfare to establish the religion. And it is the lesser jihad. As for the greater jihad, it is
spiritual warfare against the lower self (nafs), which is why the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him
peace) said as he was returning from jihad.
QuoteTHE OBJECTIVES OF JIHAD
o9.8 The caliph (o25) makes war upon Jews, Christians, and Zoroastrians (N: provided he has first
invited them to enter Islam in faith and practice, and if they will not, then invited them to enter the social
order of Islam by paying the non-Muslim poll tax (jizya, def: o11.4)-which is the significance of their
paying it, not the money itself-while remaining in their ancestral religions) (O: and the war continues)
until they become Muslim or else pay the non-Muslim poll tax (O: in accordance with the word of Allah
Most High,
"Fight those who do not believe in Allah and the Last Day and who forbid not what Allah and His
messenger have forbidden-who do not practice the religion of truth, being of those who have been given
the Book-until they pay the poll tax out of hand and are humbled" (Koran 9.29),
Shafi'i is just one of the 4 main schools of Sunni Islam (80-85% of the population) although the other 3, Maliki, Hanbali, Hanafi aren't significantly different when it comes to jihad and its goal.
In light of this, the lies of Islamic apologists and their useful idiots (mostly gullible liberals) need to be called out. You cannot reform something you won't admit is broken.
Islam is not a religion of peace and the reason the Islamic world hasn't conquered the west has more to do with military weakness and the loss of the last caliphate in 1924, rather it being peaceful or tolerant. Likewise, the existence of moderate Muslims has more to do with the fact that people tend to ignore some of their religious obligations, and less with the supposed peaceful teachings.
I believe that Islam like any religion when it encounters a long history of education will soften its edges just like xians did. The bigger issue imo, is, can we keep education clipping along in Muslims countries? If we can, a religion will soften to education as people tend to become more liberal when they are "non-biasedly" exposed to other peoples cultures. If education is fought to its own existence then the religion will amble along until it meets a greater resistence or it is able to succeed. As I doubt Islam will conquer in an all out manner, (mainly cause there is no way they are getting past the Chinese) it is simply a matter of generational progress. People tend to like other people who are nice people. And nice people like nice people so when a religion demands you kill nice people, they kinda notice that the smarter they get.
"Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled."
First Muslim means to submit to god. Just because someone is a Muslim doesn't mean they solely represent faith..all religions do...all people do who understand unity. Everyone is a part of it.
Fight in this context means repress.
Jizyah is a payment given to acknowledge that money is only material and invaluable. We fight the unbelievers because its the only way to maintain and restore the balance of good and bad knowledge(god). Like Ying and Yang. Those who don't offer anything to God bring down the human race, because they don't have purpose.
Islam has a long history of invading countries to "promote" their religion, just as Christianity has a long history of invasion and genocide. Draw your conclusions from what has occurred historically and not how you interpret scriptures. Islam in practice is not peaceful, regardless of any interpretation you might make to the contrary. It has been pointed out here many times that Islamic terrorists can justify their practices in their scriptures just as much as Christians can in theirs.
Quote from: "MitchellDaBomb""Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled."
First Muslim means to submit to god. Just because someone is a Muslim doesn't mean they solely represent faith..all religions do...all people do who understand unity. Everyone is a part of it.
Fight in this context means repress.
Jizyah is a payment given to acknowledge that money is only material and invaluable. We fight the unbelievers because its the only way to maintain and restore the balance of good and bad knowledge(god). Like Ying and Yang. Those who don't offer anything to God bring down the human race, because they don't have purpose.
"It really don't mean what is says it means....really, those hundred of thousands of people who studied this shit long before I was born are just plain wrong....here, let me tell you what it really means....and before I do that, put yer gun down and let your daughter sit on my lap, bring yer son over here so I can lay my hand upon his head......TRUST ME, I ain't a lair..trust me with the lives of your family, hell you just met me but I know the quran much better than anybody else cause I know what it REALLY says.....c'mon, what could possibly go wrong?"
Quote from: "MitchellDaBomb""Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled."
First Muslim means to submit to god. Just because someone is a Muslim doesn't mean they solely represent faith..all religions do...all people do who understand unity. Everyone is a part of it.
Fight in this context means repress.
Jizyah is a payment given to acknowledge that money is only material and invaluable. We fight the unbelievers because its the only way to maintain and restore the balance of good and bad knowledge(god). Like Ying and Yang. Those who don't offer anything to God bring down the human race, because they don't have purpose.
Why does an omipotent, omni-present god even need offerings? Is he that vain and self absorbed that he needs weaker beings to worship him?
Also, saying that people who don't believe in god have no purpose whilst on an atheist forum may not be the best move. Honestly, I think that fits better with the religious. Those who offer everything to God bring down the human race, as they have no purpose other than to please their imaginary friend.
Quote from: "Insult to Rocks"Quote from: "MitchellDaBomb""Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled."
First Muslim means to submit to god. Just because someone is a Muslim doesn't mean they solely represent faith..all religions do...all people do who understand unity. Everyone is a part of it.
Fight in this context means repress.
Jizyah is a payment given to acknowledge that money is only material and invaluable. We fight the unbelievers because its the only way to maintain and restore the balance of good and bad knowledge(god). Like Ying and Yang. Those who don't offer anything to God bring down the human race, because they don't have purpose.
Why does an omipotent, omni-present god even need offerings? Is he that vain and self absorbed that he needs weaker beings to worship him?
Also, saying that people who don't believe in god have no purpose whilst on an atheist forum may not be the best move. Honestly, I think that fits better with the religious. Those who offer everything to God bring down the human race, as they have no purpose other than to please their imaginary friend.
Well he did create you in three stages of darkness in the womb...I think that is a little deserving of payment in this life..and if Knowledge is God and the purpose of humanity is to further knowledge...then am i wrong?
Quote from: "MitchellDaBomb"Quote from: "Insult to Rocks"Quote from: "MitchellDaBomb""Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled."
First Muslim means to submit to god. Just because someone is a Muslim doesn't mean they solely represent faith..all religions do...all people do who understand unity. Everyone is a part of it.
Fight in this context means repress.
Jizyah is a payment given to acknowledge that money is only material and invaluable. We fight the unbelievers because its the only way to maintain and restore the balance of good and bad knowledge(god). Like Ying and Yang. Those who don't offer anything to God bring down the human race, because they don't have purpose.
Why does an omipotent, omni-present god even need offerings? Is he that vain and self absorbed that he needs weaker beings to worship him?
Also, saying that people who don't believe in god have no purpose whilst on an atheist forum may not be the best move. Honestly, I think that fits better with the religious. Those who offer everything to God bring down the human race, as they have no purpose other than to please their imaginary friend.
Well he did create you in three stages of darkness in the womb...I think that is a little deserving of payment in this life..and if Knowledge is God and the purpose of humanity is to further knowledge...then am i wrong?
God did noy create me, certainly not in three stages of darkness in the womb, whatever the hell that means. I was created through a process which I sure hope you understand, but if not there are plenty of free "educational" videos floating around the net you could watch. God is not knowledge, beacuse if an omnipresent being is knowledge, than why, may I ask, does the being which is simultaniously everywhere have to explain it's own presence? Finally, and this is something that can be applied secularly as well, creation is not praiseworthy, and no one owes anyone anything because they concieved them. I did not ask to be created, I had no choice in the matter, and I did not even have a consciousness for much of that . I owe no god anything, nor do I owe my actual creators anything.
Quote from: "MitchellDaBomb"..and if Knowledge is God and the purpose of humanity is to further knowledge...then am i wrong?
But if God is omnipotent and omnipresent, how could we possibly further him? (It?)
also, where does it say in the Quran that "Knowledge is God" as you've implied here? (I don't doubt you, I just don't know enough of the Quran to verify this)
Quote from: "Damarcus"Quote from: "MitchellDaBomb"..and if Knowledge is God and the purpose of humanity is to further knowledge...then am i wrong?
But if God is omnipotent and omnipresent, how could we possibly further him? (It?)
also, where does it say in the Quran that "Knowledge is God" as you've implied here? (I don't doubt you, I just don't know enough of the Quran to verify this)
I have read the Quran numerous times...I read from the essences themselves now, the Book of Certitude, Hidden Words, and Most Holy Book.
It doesn't say anything in the Quran about God being knowledge...but if God is Everything in existence....then he is all knowledge right?
if he's everything in existence, he is also ignorance.
If he is everything in existence than surely all paths lead to God, whether we want them to or not.
Quote from: "MitchellDaBomb"Quote from: "Damarcus"Quote from: "MitchellDaBomb"..and if Knowledge is God and the purpose of humanity is to further knowledge...then am i wrong?
But if God is omnipotent and omnipresent, how could we possibly further him? (It?)
also, where does it say in the Quran that "Knowledge is God" as you've implied here? (I don't doubt you, I just don't know enough of the Quran to verify this)
I have read the Quran numerous times...I read from the essences themselves now, the Book of Certitude, Hidden Words, and Most Holy Book.
It doesn't say anything in the Quran about God being knowledge...but if God is Everything in existence....then he is all knowledge right?
If he is everything, than it also follows than he is all the evil, reprehensible things in the universe as well.
Quote from: "Insult to Rocks"If he is everything, than it also follows than he is all the evil, reprehensible things in the universe as well.
And everything that is good and lovable! He makes all hearts flutter like the flappings of wings, but also makes hearts tremble in fear.
So if God is everything, then I'm right when I think of him as HIV infested, shit covered herpes sore! Awesome!
The quran is just an outdated war machine. An omnipotent and omniscient being has no use for praise (that would imply he had an inferior ego) and would have no lust for war (he'd know all that has happen, is happening, and will happen). In short, any deity as described by any of the Abrahamic religions would be a being devoid of emotions living in a universe that provides no new information to him and requires no use of him. He would be a silent, bored god, with no use for human affairs in the slightest.
As for owing a creator, that simply isn't true. Children do not owe their lives to their mothers. In the case of abusive mothers, children are often taken from these mothers in hopes of providing them with more secure environments (especially in first world countries).
"Allah" of the Quran is nothing more than the representation of all the most prized masculine traits during the time of Muhummad deified for use as a tool to drive men to war and conquest. The only peace Islam has ever promised is that of death. Even for its followers, all the promises of Islam only occur after they too are dead.
My only hope in regards to Islam is that it may one day find the peace of death, either by being lost to human memory, or as with the case of Christianity, begins to lose its core identity and becomes a fluffy, "feel good," emasculated version that is no longer the war-hungry doctrine it once was.
Quote from: "Aletheia"The quran is just an outdated war machine. An omnipotent and omniscient being has no use for praise (that would imply he had an inferior ego) and would have no lust for war (he'd know all that has happen, is happening, and will happen). In short, any deity as described by any of the Abrahamic religions would be a being devoid of emotions living in a universe that provides no new information to him and requires no use of him. He would be a silent, bored god, with no use for human affairs in the slightest.
As for owing a creator, that simply isn't true. Children do not owe their lives to their mothers. In the case of abusive mothers, children are often taken from these mothers in hopes of providing them with more secure environments (especially in first world countries).
"Allah" of the Quran is nothing more than the representation of all the most prized masculine traits during the time of Muhummad deified for use as a tool to drive men to war and conquest. The only peace Islam has ever promised is that of death. Even for its followers, all the promises of Islam only occur after they too are dead.
My only hope in regards to Islam is that it may one day find the peace of death, either by being lost to human memory, or as with the case of Christianity, begins to lose its core identity and becomes a fluffy, "feel good," emasculated version that is no longer the war-hungry doctrine it once was.
1. Another foolish attempt to personify Knowledge(God)...the essence of Ego and Being...how can you apply personal traits to personality itself?
2. Allah creates children in the depths of the womb in three stages of darkness. Although a mother gives birth to a child, by god's hand it is given form and intellect (insight of knowledge)
Quote from: "MitchellDaBomb"1. Another foolish attempt to personify Knowledge(God)...the essence of Ego and Being...how can you apply personal traits to personality itself?
2. Allah creates children in the depths of the womb in three stages of darkness. Although a mother gives birth to a child, by god's hand it is given form and intellect (insight of knowledge)
Prove it. Furthermore, prove it is your god and not the god of another religion.
"1. Another foolish attempt to personify Knowledge(Aletheia)... the essence of Ego and Being... how can you apply personal traits to personality itself?
2. Eileithyia creates children in the depths of the womb in three stages of darkness. Although a mother gives birth to a child, by Eileithyia's hand it is given form and intellect (insight of knowledge)"
"1. Another foolish attempt to personify Knowledge(Yweh)... the essence of Ego and Being... how can you apply personal traits to personality itself?
2. Yweh creates children in the depths of the womb in three stages of darkness. Although a mother gives birth to a child, by Yweh hand it is given form and intellect (insight of knowledge)"
"1. Another foolish attempt to personify Knowledge(the Flying Spaghetti Monster)... the essence of Ego and Being... how can you apply personal traits to personality itself?
2. The Flying Spaghetti Monster creates children in the depths of the womb in three stages of darkness. Although a mother gives birth to a child, by the Flying Spagetti Monster's noodley appendage it is given form and intellect (insight of knowledge)"
Quote from: "Aletheia"Quote from: "MitchellDaBomb"1. Another foolish attempt to personify Knowledge(God)...the essence of Ego and Being...how can you apply personal traits to personality itself?
2. Allah creates children in the depths of the womb in three stages of darkness. Although a mother gives birth to a child, by god's hand it is given form and intellect (insight of knowledge)
Prove it. Furthermore, prove it is your god and not the god of another religion.
"1. Another foolish attempt to personify Knowledge(Aletheia)... the essence of Ego and Being... how can you apply personal traits to personality itself?
2. Eileithyia creates children in the depths of the womb in three stages of darkness. Although a mother gives birth to a child, by Eileithyia's hand it is given form and intellect (insight of knowledge)"
"1. Another foolish attempt to personify Knowledge(Yweh)... the essence of Ego and Being... how can you apply personal traits to personality itself?
2. Yweh creates children in the depths of the womb in three stages of darkness. Although a mother gives birth to a child, by Yweh hand it is given form and intellect (insight of knowledge)"
"1. Another foolish attempt to personify Knowledge(the Flying Spaghetti Monster)... the essence of Ego and Being... how can you apply personal traits to personality itself?
2. The Flying Spaghetti Monster creates children in the depths of the womb in three stages of darkness. Although a mother gives birth to a child, by the Flying Spagetti Monster's noodley appendage it is given form and intellect (insight of knowledge)"
Multiple examples of the unification of all aspects of god(knowledge) throughout all religions...since everything and anything is Allahs (even false gods), all religions share similarities..
We could ask "then what makes yours more special than the other false ones", but we'd just get more nonsense about how the Quran is best because your mommy and daddy beat you with a belt until you accepted it :roll:
Quote from: "MitchellDaBomb"Multiple examples of the unification of all aspects of god(knowledge) throughout all religions...since everything and anything is Allahs (even false gods), all religions share similarities..
Multiple examples of the unification of all aspects of god(knowledge) throughout all religions...since everything and anything is Yweh's (even false gods), all religions share similarities..
Multiple examples of the unification of all aspects of god(knowledge) throughout all religions...since everything and anything is Zeus' (even false gods), all religions share similarities..
Multiple examples of the unification of all aspects of god(knowledge) throughout all religions...since everything and anything is the Flying Spagetti Monster's (even false gods), all religions share similarities..
These similarities do not negate the differences. Furthermore, claiming one brand of god is the real and only god does not dismiss that any of the other gods could be the real and only god.
So, once again, why is it your god and not some other god that is the unifying feature? And ultimately, can you prove your god (or any god for that matter) actually exists?
Will the Real Slim Shady please stand up? Or in your case, will the real God please show up?
[youtube:ozf2z97d]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFqRyxpgOFI[/youtube:ozf2z97d]
Quote from: "drunkenshoe"Quote from: "MitchellDaBomb"I have read the Quran numerous times...
So can you give us some insight why almost all debates of muslim clerics about how to fuck or how not to fuck a woman?
A great amount of islamic scripture is about which women are eligible for men to fuck.
Why almost every islamic debate is about fucking?
NOT sex. I am not talking about sex. I am talking about 'fucking women'.
Too much 'love' that no time for a good fuck or severe deprivation?
I love it when you talk dirty.....
Quote from: "MitchellDaBomb"Well he did create you in three stages of darkness in the womb...I think that is a little deserving of payment in this life..and if Knowledge is God and the purpose of humanity is to further knowledge...then am i wrong?
God had nothing to do with my creation. I was formed from the mixing of DNA when my father's sperm met my mother's egg.
You have also started with a faulty premise: you have assumed God and knowledge mean the same thing, but have not established who or what God is or why we should assume that knowledge qualifies as an answer. Moreover, you haven't even given a way for us to identify god. (See this post (//http://atheistforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=3580&p=988640#p988640) for my reasoning as to why there is no god.) How are we supposed to take this argument seriously if you can't even establish your premise?
Quote from: "Hijiri Byakuren"Quote from: "MitchellDaBomb"Well he did create you in three stages of darkness in the womb...I think that is a little deserving of payment in this life..and if Knowledge is God and the purpose of humanity is to further knowledge...then am i wrong?
God had nothing to do with my creation. I was formed from the mixing of DNA when my father's sperm met my mother's egg.
You have also started with a faulty premise: you have assumed God and knowledge mean the same thing, but have not established who or what God is or why we should assume that knowledge qualifies as an answer. Moreover, you haven't even given a way for us to identify god. (See this post (//http://atheistforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=3580&p=988640#p988640) for my reasoning as to why there is no god.) How are we supposed to take this argument seriously if you can't even establish your premise?
Can you identify the unidentifiable? I will never be able to give empirical evidence, since he is unobservable. God never leaves the eternal repose in which His blessedness consists, since matter, motion, and time are solidified and unchangeable...He is everything after-all...the human mind would be baffled and perplexed if he made himself into a concrete being on earth.
QuoteCan you identify the unidentifiable?
Not with that attitude you can't.
Read a history book. Read the current news. A Muslim woman saw fit to throw acid on another woman because she was not dressed according to religious rules. Muslims have attacked other countries to further their own ends. It isn't any harder to understand than that. You can talk all day long about religion of peace, but the facts run counter to that argument.
Quote from: "stromboli"Read a history book. Read the current news. A Muslim woman saw fit to throw acid on another woman because she was not dressed according to religious rules. Muslims have attacked other countries to further their own ends. It isn't any harder to understand than that. You can talk all day long about religion of peace, but the facts run counter to that argument.
You want me to acknowledge the general media as a form of legitimate information?(Funded by big media conglomerates, who are themselves funded by the big bankers who control[seemingly] the world's flow of information) . You want me to read a history book that could have been manipulated in time? Nahh I think ill continue to read from the fountain of essence.
Quote from: "MitchellDaBomb"Can you identify the unidentifiable?
A thousand years ago they said we could never know the ways of the heavens: Johannes Kepler began the process of doing just that. So in short, the answer is yes.
Quote from: "MitchellDaBomb"I will never be able to give empirical evidence, since he is unobservable.
So sure of that? The Catholic Church sure was.
Quote from: "MitchellDaBomb"God never leaves the eternal repose in which His blessedness consists, since matter, motion, and time are solidified and unchangeable...He is everything after-all...
According to nothing considered a holy text ever put to paper. You're just pulling this out of your ass.
Quote from: "MitchellDaBomb"the human mind would be baffled and perplexed if he made himself into a concrete being on earth.
Except for all the religious figures who have apparently met him in person.
Quote from: "MitchellDaBomb"Quote from: "stromboli"Read a history book. Read the current news. A Muslim woman saw fit to throw acid on another woman because she was not dressed according to religious rules. Muslims have attacked other countries to further their own ends. It isn't any harder to understand than that. You can talk all day long about religion of peace, but the facts run counter to that argument.
You want me to acknowledge the general media as a form of legitimate information?(Funded by big media conglomerates, who are themselves funded by the big bankers who control[seemingly] the world's flow of information) . You want me to read a history book that could have been manipulated in time? Nahh I think ill continue to read from the fountain of essence.
:rollin:
You continue to read from the most manipulated and reinterpreted book of all times, then.
Quote from: "Plu"Quote from: "MitchellDaBomb"Quote from: "stromboli"Read a history book. Read the current news. A Muslim woman saw fit to throw acid on another woman because she was not dressed according to religious rules. Muslims have attacked other countries to further their own ends. It isn't any harder to understand than that. You can talk all day long about religion of peace, but the facts run counter to that argument.
You want me to acknowledge the general media as a form of legitimate information?(Funded by big media conglomerates, who are themselves funded by the big bankers who control[seemingly] the world's flow of information) . You want me to read a history book that could have been manipulated in time? Nahh I think ill continue to read from the fountain of essence.
:rollin:
You continue to read from the most manipulated and reinterpreted book of all times, then.
That sounds like a compliment to me :)...the most reinterpreted (has the most meanings) and the most influenced
Has the most meanings = bullshit. Especially when a lot of the interpretations contradict each other.
Bwahahaha, "the most reinterpreted means has the most meanings", hilarious. The more you can reinterpret something, the less it means ;)
I dunno. I lived in two Islamic countries for a total of five years, and somehow escaped being beheaded. Go figure, I usually have shitty luck.
Quote from: "Plu"Bwahahaha, "the most reinterpreted means has the most meanings", hilarious. The more you can reinterpret something, the less it means ;)
the more you can reinterpret something. the more (perceived) meanings it has. Since god is different to every person, he has the most meanings.
Quote from: "MitchellDaBomb"Quote from: "Plu"Bwahahaha, "the most reinterpreted means has the most meanings", hilarious. The more you can reinterpret something, the less it means ;)
the more you can reinterpret something. the more (perceived) meanings it has. Since god is different to every person, he has the most meanings.
As my astronomy teacher once said, "If all religious interpretations are right, then they're all wrong." There can be multiple degrees of truth, but there can't be multiple truths. It's a contradiction in terms. If concept has many different meanings, it is meaningless, because invoking the term can imply so many different things that the discussion cannot progress.
Quote from: "Hijiri Byakuren"Quote from: "MitchellDaBomb"Quote from: "Plu"Bwahahaha, "the most reinterpreted means has the most meanings", hilarious. The more you can reinterpret something, the less it means ;)
the more you can reinterpret something. the more (perceived) meanings it has. Since god is different to every person, he has the most meanings.
As my astronomy teacher once said, "If all religious interpretations are right, then they're all wrong." There can be multiple degrees of truth, but there can't be multiple truths. It's a contradiction in terms. If concept has many different meanings, it is meaningless, because invoking the term can imply so many different things that the discussion cannot progress.
How is it meaningless if all of those degrees of truth are part of a whole truth?..the discussion can not progress because there is no other way to put it...(also it is meaningful(less), depending on the person)...and you're right...they are all wrong singularly, but right when unified
Can you give me the number to your dealer?
Quote from: "MitchellDaBomb"Quote from: "stromboli"Read a history book. Read the current news. A Muslim woman saw fit to throw acid on another woman because she was not dressed according to religious rules. Muslims have attacked other countries to further their own ends. It isn't any harder to understand than that. You can talk all day long about religion of peace, but the facts run counter to that argument.
You want me to acknowledge the general media as a form of legitimate information?(Funded by big media conglomerates, who are themselves funded by the big bankers who control[seemingly] the world's flow of information) . You want me to read a history book that could have been manipulated in time? Nahh I think ill continue to read from the fountain of essence.
You want me to acknowledge the general religious dogma as a form of legitimate information?(Funded by big religious conglomerates, who are themselves funded by the meek who are controlled [literally] by the world's flow of misinformation). You want me to read a religious book that could have been manipulated in time? Nahh I think ill continue to read from verifiable sources.
Quote from: "kilodelta"Quote from: "MitchellDaBomb"Quote from: "stromboli"Read a history book. Read the current news. A Muslim woman saw fit to throw acid on another woman because she was not dressed according to religious rules. Muslims have attacked other countries to further their own ends. It isn't any harder to understand than that. You can talk all day long about religion of peace, but the facts run counter to that argument.
You want me to acknowledge the general media as a form of legitimate information?(Funded by big media conglomerates, who are themselves funded by the big bankers who control[seemingly] the world's flow of information) . You want me to read a history book that could have been manipulated in time? Nahh I think ill continue to read from the fountain of essence.
You want me to acknowledge the general religious dogma as a form of legitimate information?(Funded by big religious conglomerates, who are themselves funded by the meek who are controlled [literally] by the world's flow of misinformation). You want me to read a religious book that could have been manipulated in time? Nahh I think ill continue to read from verifiable sources.
who said i followed a religious dogma? I follow god...not any "religious" group. Who is a better verifiable source...the source of all creation? or the news?
Quote from: "MitchellDaBomb"Quote from: "kilodelta"You want me to acknowledge the general religious dogma as a form of legitimate information?(Funded by big religious conglomerates, who are themselves funded by the meek who are controlled [literally] by the world's flow of misinformation). You want me to read a religious book that could have been manipulated in time? Nahh I think ill continue to read from verifiable sources.
who said i followed a religious dogma? I follow god...not any "religious" group. Who is a better verifiable source...the source of all creation? or the news?
Okay. So, you don't claim to follow and religious dogma, but prescribe to the Abrahamic god... whatever.
At least I could do some sort of test or verification on what the news provides. This "source of all creation" has yet to show itself. Calling existence "creation" actually begs the question. I'll go with the news over whatever you've dreamed up about a supernatural being/thing.
Quote from: "MitchellDaBomb"they are all wrong singularly, but right when unified
This is called painting the bulls-eye around the arrow. Trying to make you see reason is obviously an exercise in futility at this point. You're just here to proselytize.
(//http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m150/FormicHiveQueen/ronald-reagan-berlinwall.jpg)
Quote from: "Hijiri Byakuren"Quote from: "MitchellDaBomb"they are all wrong singularly, but right when unified
This is called painting the bulls-eye around the arrow. Trying to make you see reason is obviously an exercise in futility at this point. You're just here to proselytize.
[ Image (//http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m150/FormicHiveQueen/ronald-reagan-berlinwall.jpg) ]
proselytizing by stating that it's a choice to believe? that seems like a logical conclusion -.- if you wish me to leave, I will...it matters not to me..I was only concerned...if so, i wish you all luck in your attempts to find complete rationality (truth) in a balanced world, created from a balanced god (one of chaos and order)..
personally, I don't wish for you to leave (though I don't speak for everyone here) I find your views interesting. So you don't belong to any religious group. How then, did you come to the conclusion that Allah is the one and only true god? How are you sure that you aren't mistaken?
Quote from: "MitchellDaBomb""Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled."
First Muslim means to submit to god. Just because someone is a Muslim doesn't mean they solely represent faith..all religions do...all people do who understand unity. Everyone is a part of it.
Fight in this context means repress.
Jizyah is a payment given to acknowledge that money is only material and invaluable. We fight the unbelievers because its the only way to maintain and restore the balance of good and bad knowledge(god). Like Ying and Yang. Those who don't offer anything to God bring down the human race, because they don't have purpose.
Not sure what I'm supposed to reply, sounds like a case of "God said it, I believe it, that settles it".
Quote from: "Damarcus"personally, I don't wish for you to leave (though I don't speak for everyone here) I find your views interesting. So you don't belong to any religious group. How then, did you come to the conclusion that Allah is the one and only true god? How are you sure that you aren't mistaken?
Thanks you. I'm glad to share my beliefs if they provoke thought :-D
From the Book of Certitude and all the works of Baha'ullah and from
analysis of my dreams..(which I don't have any more since dreams are a mix of Freudian dream theory and extra-dimensional realm communication...depending on the person's understanding)
(Simply, We can either dream of our desires, or we can set aside our desires for other dreams)...and i can never be mistaken now..i am certain of it.
I'd be glad to share those dreams specifically if you want too. I write them all down. I've only had 4 dreams in the past year.
so your main reason for believing in Allah is due to dreams you've had about him? did you read the books of Certitude and Baha'ullah before or after you started having these dreams?
Quoteand i can never be mistaken now..i am certain of it.
yeap, strap a bomb on that one, it's ready.
Quote from: "Damarcus"so your main reason for believing in Allah is due to dreams you've had about him? did you read the books of Certitude and Baha'ullah before or after you started having these dreams?
The dreams came while reading the quran...and my last dream was when i first started the book of certitude
Here's how i started
Started reading the Quran (which is the key to the books of Baha'ullah meaning you have to have complete faith to find the hidden messages...by reading the Quran) about a year ago..idk why..just picked it up one day...it immediately told me what i was doing with my life...I read it over and over since the information had different meanings to me depending on how I read it..about 6 months after fully understanding most of the quran's message (It had me conclude that all the prophets were symbolic of the sun...always eternal and shining upon earth (allahs light)..which made me realize that god's word is probably still here...i found the book of certitude...which confirmed its presence as Allah(All Knowledge) with me by telling me in the first verse that this prophet was the Daystar of Truth...the sun (representing all the prophets) (so he is the most current of the lineage)...they are all men who have been imbued with the "Holy Spirit" or word....
"The essence of these words is this: they that tread the path of faith, they that thirst for the wine of certitude, must cleanse themselves of all that is earthly—their ears from idle talk, their minds from vain imaginings, their hearts from worldly affections, their eyes from that which perisheth. They should put their trust in God, and, holding fast unto Him, follow in His way. Then will they be made worthy of the effulgent glories of the sun of divine knowledge and understanding, and become the recipients of a grace that is infinite and unseen, inasmuch as man can never hope to attain unto the knowledge of the All-Glorious, can never quaff from the stream of divine knowledge and wisdom, can never enter the abode of immortality, nor partake of the cup of divine nearness and favour, unless and until he ceases to regard the words and deeds of mortal men as a standard for the true understanding and recognition of God and His Prophets."
Quote from: "MitchellDaBomb"Quote from: "Damarcus"so your main reason for believing in Allah is due to dreams you've had about him? did you read the books of Certitude and Baha'ullah before or after you started having these dreams?
The dreams came while reading the quran...and my last dream was when i first started the book of certitude
Here's how i started
Started reading the Quran (which is the key to the books of Baha'ullah meaning you have to have complete faith to find the hidden messages...by reading the Quran) about a year ago..idk why..just picked it up one day...it immediately told me what i was doing with my life...I read it over and over since the information had different meanings to me depending on how I read it..about 6 months after fully understanding most of the quran's message (It had me conclude that all the prophets were symbolic of the sun...always eternal and shining upon earth (allahs light)..which made me realize that god's word is probably still here...i found the book of certitude...which confirmed its presence as Allah(All Knowledge) with me by telling me in the first verse that this prophet was the Daystar of Truth...the sun (representing all the prophets) (so he is the most current of the lineage)...they are all men who have been imbued with the "Holy Spirit" or word....
"The essence of these words is this: they that tread the path of faith, they that thirst for the wine of certitude, must cleanse themselves of all that is earthly—their ears from idle talk, their minds from vain imaginings, their hearts from worldly affections, their eyes from that which perisheth. They should put their trust in God, and, holding fast unto Him, follow in His way. Then will they be made worthy of the effulgent glories of the sun of divine knowledge and understanding, and become the recipients of a grace that is infinite and unseen, inasmuch as man can never hope to attain unto the knowledge of the All-Glorious, can never quaff from the stream of divine knowledge and wisdom, can never enter the abode of immortality, nor partake of the cup of divine nearness and favour, unless and until he ceases to regard the words and deeds of mortal men as a standard for the true understanding and recognition of God and His Prophets."
so to remove all the fluff from that, I'll try to see if I understand what you are saying:
1. The Quran "spoke" to you in a way that felt like it understood your life
2. You found different meanings in the words depending on how you interpreted them
3. You decided that the prophets (I'm assuming you only mean the famous and successful ones) represent the sun (which is Allah's light)
4. You paragraph which looks to be a quote from the Quran seems to say that one who worships Allah must give up earthly comforts and trust in Him so they can be rewarded in heaven.
Have you read much of Islamic (or any other religion's) theology? How do you rationalise your beliefs when they conflict with others, what happens when someone else inteprets a passage differently to you?
But we haven't gotten to the best part yet, the dreams that you have proved that you follow the one true faith, right? I am interested to hear about what happened in them, I warn you though, we've had plenty of people claiming divine revelation here before.
Quote from: "Damarcus"Quote from: "MitchellDaBomb"Quote from: "Damarcus"so your main reason for believing in Allah is due to dreams you've had about him? did you read the books of Certitude and Baha'ullah before or after you started having these dreams?
The dreams came while reading the quran...and my last dream was when i first started the book of certitude
Here's how i started
Started reading the Quran (which is the key to the books of Baha'ullah meaning you have to have complete faith to find the hidden messages...by reading the Quran) about a year ago..idk why..just picked it up one day...it immediately told me what i was doing with my life...I read it over and over since the information had different meanings to me depending on how I read it..about 6 months after fully understanding most of the quran's message (It had me conclude that all the prophets were symbolic of the sun...always eternal and shining upon earth (allahs light)..which made me realize that god's word is probably still here...i found the book of certitude...which confirmed its presence as Allah(All Knowledge) with me by telling me in the first verse that this prophet was the Daystar of Truth...the sun (representing all the prophets) (so he is the most current of the lineage)...they are all men who have been imbued with the "Holy Spirit" or word....
"The essence of these words is this: they that tread the path of faith, they that thirst for the wine of certitude, must cleanse themselves of all that is earthly—their ears from idle talk, their minds from vain imaginings, their hearts from worldly affections, their eyes from that which perisheth. They should put their trust in God, and, holding fast unto Him, follow in His way. Then will they be made worthy of the effulgent glories of the sun of divine knowledge and understanding, and become the recipients of a grace that is infinite and unseen, inasmuch as man can never hope to attain unto the knowledge of the All-Glorious, can never quaff from the stream of divine knowledge and wisdom, can never enter the abode of immortality, nor partake of the cup of divine nearness and favour, unless and until he ceases to regard the words and deeds of mortal men as a standard for the true understanding and recognition of God and His Prophets."
so to remove all the fluff from that, I'll try to see if I understand what you are saying:
1. The Quran "spoke" to you in a way that felt like it understood your life
2. You found different meanings in the words depending on how you interpreted them
3. You decided that the prophets (I'm assuming you only mean the famous and successful ones) represent the sun (which is Allah's light)
4. You paragraph which looks to be a quote from the Quran seems to say that one who worships Allah must give up earthly comforts and trust in Him so they can be rewarded in heaven.
Have you read much of Islamic (or any other religion's) theology? How do you rationalise your beliefs when they conflict with others, what happens when someone else inteprets a passage differently to you?
But we haven't gotten to the best part yet, the dreams that you have proved that you follow the one true faith, right? I am interested to hear about what happened in them, I warn you though, we've had plenty of people claiming divine revelation here before.
If they are believers then it doesn't really matter to me...in my opinion we are all searching for the same singular truth of life...all people are.
I have read Islamic theology...unfortunately many of the Imam's who wrote the Hadiths were not all good people...like allah says in the book of certitude "many of the desert Arabs are lost believers"...since they can't recognize the next prophet...they are stuck on the "Seal of the Prophets" which meant Lineage..imo...and theres no need to warn me :) no amount of abasement could harm me or shake my faith or belief...and here is my dream log for the first dream i had..There are 3 more after this...spread roughly 3 months apart each..i took later notes too
Go to party in a very tall apartment that stretches between clouds. It takes 2 trys to get in (omg, the perceived death!) the first level has 1
side with a dj and dancing and ziplines to get across while the other side of the bottom level had some cool stoner
technician guy. He lived below the staircase to the top level which was a crystal spiral staircase. He looks like
redfoo from LMFAO. Cool stoner technician guy shows me the top level, we smoke a joint and he teaches me about the
other side of the top level and how it is off limits (high ethereal realm im guessing). Me shane and matt (IDK how shane got here) zipline to the
other side The top level was like an electronics shop with helicopters and shit. We activated all the helicopters but
I accidentally activated one that controlled them all and they went crazy...i went back downstairs to tell people, ziplinned to the
other side of the party but it was crowded (zombbbies) so when I reached the edge I hit Gino while he is grinding with Renee, he almost falls off
but I push him back up, he thanks me...i try and maneuver around him but somehow he trips over my leg and falls off again
...as hes falling he yells "Thanks mannnnn" sarcastically..i felt kinda bad but not really..everyone jumps to try and save him but
ends up clogging the cloud and no one falls through.....some assholes start pushing people through the cloud to kill them.
..someone pushes me in but I am the only one that managed to make it to the other side before I fall through the cloud..
...people are yelling and hating on me for it...END!!!
this was the very first dream i had that urged me to right it down...since i wrote it within my first week of reading the Quran...it has a mixture of desires in it as well...to me i interpret this dream as my transition to being faithful...hence why i was the only one out of my friends that could make it to the other side...you can interpret it however you'd like...but it is my dream after all :) id be glad to share all of the others...this one is the least important one to me and was merely a symbolic dream representing the change in my life and faith...sorry for taking up all this thread...i can pm them if youd like
wow. That's your amazing revelatory dream? That's lame. I've had talks with guys who said God personally showed them the universe in their dreams.
Does sound like an interesting dream though, but nothing beyond that. I had a dream last night where the plumbing was leaking, so I tried to clean it up, only to realise it wasn't the wall, but the roof. So I flew out the window and stopped a bank robber. Does this mean I'm destined to become a superhero?
I think you're putting too much stock in your dreams, if the other ones are really out of the ordinary, or a worth a read, pm me (we probably shouldn't derail this thread too much) I'm sure the others are more interesting, but to me, this one just sounds like a fairly ordinary dream that anyone could have, regardless of the holy books they've been reading lately.
Quote from: "Damarcus"wow. That's your amazing revelatory dream? That's lame. I've had talks with guys who said God personally showed them the universe in their dreams.
Does sound like an interesting dream though, but nothing beyond that. I had a dream last night where the plumbing was leaking, so I tried to clean it up, only to realise it wasn't the wall, but the roof. So I flew out the window and stopped a bank robber. Does this mean I'm destined to become a superhero?
I think you're putting too much stock in your dreams, if the other ones are really out of the ordinary, or a worth a read, pm me (we probably shouldn't derail this thread too much) I'm sure the others are more interesting, but to me, this one just sounds like a fairly ordinary dream that anyone could have, regardless of the holy books they've been reading lately.
Dreams are meant to be symbolic for the dreamer :) of course they are up for interpretation...and theres no point in me telling you any others if another guy has showed you his dreams about God, and it mattered not to you...
Quote from: "MitchellDaBomb"Quote from: "Damarcus"wow. That's your amazing revelatory dream? That's lame. I've had talks with guys who said God personally showed them the universe in their dreams.
Does sound like an interesting dream though, but nothing beyond that. I had a dream last night where the plumbing was leaking, so I tried to clean it up, only to realise it wasn't the wall, but the roof. So I flew out the window and stopped a bank robber. Does this mean I'm destined to become a superhero?
I think you're putting too much stock in your dreams, if the other ones are really out of the ordinary, or a worth a read, pm me (we probably shouldn't derail this thread too much) I'm sure the others are more interesting, but to me, this one just sounds like a fairly ordinary dream that anyone could have, regardless of the holy books they've been reading lately.
Dreams are meant to be symbolic for the dreamer :) of course they are up for interpretation...and theres no point in me telling you any others if another guy has showed you his dreams about God, and it mattered not to you...
Dreams, out of body experiences, and the like are the results of your brain going full potato with neurotransmitters. They can be replicated in the lab. I enjoy my dreams, especially the ones where I'm flying, but I wouldn't put too much stock in them. Sometimes I've had dreams that were largely introspective in nature, and they helped me gain some insight into myself, but I never considered dreams a valid source of information about reality.
Quote from: "The Skeletal Atheist"Dreams, out of body experiences, and the like are the results of your brain going full potato with neurotransmitters. They can be replicated in the lab. I enjoy my dreams, especially the ones where I'm flying, but I wouldn't put too much stock in them. Sometimes I've had dreams that were largely introspective in nature, and they helped me gain some insight into myself, but I never considered dreams a valid source of information about reality.
I don't have dreams like that anymore...haven't in months...I don't really dream..
And i guess they are neurotransmitters...but i don't think dreams would correlate just from neurotransmitters alone
Quote from: "MitchellDaBomb"Quote from: "The Skeletal Atheist"Dreams, out of body experiences, and the like are the results of your brain going full potato with neurotransmitters. They can be replicated in the lab. I enjoy my dreams, especially the ones where I'm flying, but I wouldn't put too much stock in them. Sometimes I've had dreams that were largely introspective in nature, and they helped me gain some insight into myself, but I never considered dreams a valid source of information about reality.
I don't have dreams like that anymore...haven't in months...I don't really dream..
And i guess they are neurotransmitters...but i don't think dreams would correlate just from neurotransmitters alone
If you go into REM sleep you dream. You just don't remember most of your dreams. As per dreams correlating with anything, dreams are a product of your mind contemplating various thoughts and experiences. I don't find it surprising at all that your dreams took on a religious tone after reading the Quran.
I remember reading 1984 by Orwell and having dreams of a totalitarian world.
It's kinda cyclical in that way. You think about something, then you dream, and your dream being your subconscious reaffirms the thing you were thinking about, and then you think you were right because you got a revelation in a dream. When really it's just your own brain telling your own brain that your own brain was right on the money.
When a book "speaks" to you, it's time to check in at the loony house.
Who the hell is God????? There is no God but Allah. He is Allah.
If you calling "God" the satan
Quote from: "Manusia"Who the hell is God????? There is no God but Allah. He is Allah.
If you calling "God" the satan
I beg to differ. The Flying Spaghetti Monster is greater than Yehweh and Allah put together. I know because that's what FSM told me in my imagination while eating pasta! How could it be anything else than my imagination if I was thinking of it while eating pasta! That is much more solid than whatever you said or meant. FSM FTW or GTFO! (IPU gets mad props too... but IPU will lose the war against FSM)
Quote from: "Manusia"Who the hell is God????? There is no God but Allah. He is Allah.
If you calling "God" the satan
really? you start out questioning who the hell is god then admit you know god is actually Allah and finally consent that the god you know as allah is actually satan.....
yer pretty fuckin stupid.
Quote from: "aitm"Quote from: "Manusia"Who the hell is God????? There is no God but Allah. He is Allah.
If you calling "God" the satan
really? you start out questioning who the hell is god then admit you know god is actually Allah and finally consent that the god you know as allah is actually satan.....
yer pretty fuckin stupid.
oh you are lose. I'm not fucking stupid.
Quote from: "kilodelta"Quote from: "Manusia"Who the hell is God????? There is no God but Allah. He is Allah.
If you calling "God" the satan
I beg to differ. The Flying Spaghetti Monster is greater than Yehweh and Allah put together. I know because that's what FSM told me in my imagination while eating pasta! How could it be anything else than my imagination if I was thinking of it while eating pasta! That is much more solid than whatever you said or meant. FSM FTW or GTFO! (IPU gets mad props too... but IPU will lose the war against FSM)
wtf? are you trolling me?
Quote from: "Manusia"Quote from: "aitm"Quote from: "Manusia"Who the hell is God????? There is no God but Allah. He is Allah.
If you calling "God" the satan
really? you start out questioning who the hell is god then admit you know god is actually Allah and finally consent that the god you know as allah is actually satan.....
yer pretty fuckin stupid.
oh you are lose. I'm not fucking stupid.
my apologies, yer not fuckin stupid.....yer just stupid.
Quote from: "Manusia"Who the hell is God????? There is no God but Allah. He is Allah.
If you calling "God" the satan
Obvious troll is obvious.
[-(
Quote from: "Manusia"Who the hell is God????? There is no God but Allah. He is Allah.
If you calling "God" the satan
Oh my, we found one who hasn't even gotten to the point of understanding the God and Allah are the same thing yet. It's a good thing lack of understanding has never stopped a religious person before or this one'd never have gotten started.
Manusia means Human in my language, jus saying. :popcorn:
Quote from: "Manusia"Who the hell is God????? There is no God but Allah. He is Allah.
If you calling "God" the satan
Then who was phone?
Quote from: "drunkenshoe"Quote from: "StupidWiz"Manusia means Human in my language, jus saying. :popcorn:
Something like "be?er"?
Not really sure what "beser" is, I was just implying that this Manusia fellow is probably from my country, or neighboring country. :)
He's either from Malaysia or Singapore (seems to be somewhere near the border).
This man defended god, not himself, and you attack him with insults?
Not to mention he is clearly of a different linguistic background, which does not determine his intellect.
Manusia, you are very smart..Allah(God) is the best provider; he is resourceful and loving. Peace be upon you :-D
> Those who don't offer anything to God bring down the human race, because they don't have purpose.
Any evidence for this god of yours? Any evidence that those who don't give you money don't have a purpose? And when you get the money, do you send it to your god, or do you keep it?
Provide some evidence for your claims, and we will listen. That you believe it isn't evidence. That it says so in the Koran isn't evidence. That your local imam says so isn't evidence.
Without evidence, your claims are not to be believed.
Frank
> There is no God but Allah.
On the contrary. People have invented thousands of gods. The one you call Allah is but one of many. And there's just as much evidence for your god as for any of the thousands of others: zero.
Frank
Quote from: "FrankDK"> There is no God but Allah.
On the contrary. People have invented thousands of gods. The one you call Allah is but one of many. And there's just as much evidence for your god as for any of the thousands of others: zero.
Frank
Since Allah is Knowledge, all deities are his. They all exemplify traits of Allah and each religion contains a certain degree of faith. Religions are really just distortions of the divine message (and singular faith).
Quote from: "Manusia"There is no God but Allah.
World mythology disagrees. (//http://www.godchecker.com/)
There is as much evidence for Allah as there is for every other god. If you accept one, you have to accept that the rest are at least plausible.
Quote from: "Hijiri Byakuren"Quote from: "Manusia"There is no God but Allah.
World mythology disagrees. (//http://www.godchecker.com/)
There is as much evidence for Allah as there is for every other god. If you accept one, you have to accept that the rest are at least plausible.
The evidence is in his books, which are unmatched in graceful wordplay.
Quote from: "MitchellDaBomb"Quote from: "Hijiri Byakuren"Quote from: "Manusia"There is no God but Allah.
World mythology disagrees. (//http://www.godchecker.com/)
There is as much evidence for Allah as there is for every other god. If you accept one, you have to accept that the rest are at least plausible.
The evidence is in his books, which are unmatched in graceful wordplay.
Did you seriously just argue your case on the basis of
poetry!?
Quote from: "Hijiri Byakuren"Did you seriously just argue your case on the basis of poetry!?
Metrical Compositions...His grammatical structures, and use of multiple entendres..and their rhythmic pattern when read...
outmatch any human form of poetry.
O SON OF MAN! Thou art My dominion and My dominion perisheth not; wherefore fearest thou thy perishing? Thou art My light and My light shall never be extinguished; why dost thou dread extinction? Thou art My glory and My glory fadeth not; thou art My robe and My robe shall never be outworn. Abide then in thy love for Me, that thou mayest find Me in the realm of glory.
The Quran does the same.
By the sun and its brightness
And [by] the moon when it follows it
And [by] the day when it displays it
And [by] the night when it covers it
And [by] the sky and He who constructed it
And [by] the earth and He who spread it
And [by] the soul and He who proportioned it
And inspired it [with discernment of] its wickedness and its righteousness,
He has succeeded who purifies it,
And he has failed who instills it [with corruption].
Quote from: "MitchellDaBomb"Quote from: "Hijiri Byakuren"Did you seriously just argue your case on the basis of poetry!?
Metrical Compositions...His grammatical structures, and use of multiple entendres..and their rhythmic pattern when read...
outmatch any human form of poetry.
O SON OF MAN! Thou art My dominion and My dominion perisheth not; wherefore fearest thou thy perishing? Thou art My light and My light shall never be extinguished; why dost thou dread extinction? Thou art My glory and My glory fadeth not; thou art My robe and My robe shall never be outworn. Abide then in thy love for Me, that thou mayest find Me in the realm of glory.
The Quran does the same.
By the sun and its brightness
And [by] the moon when it follows it
And [by] the day when it displays it
And [by] the night when it covers it
And [by] the sky and He who constructed it
And [by] the earth and He who spread it
And [by] the soul and He who proportioned it
And inspired it [with discernment of] its wickedness and its righteousness,
He has succeeded who purifies it,
And he has failed who instills it [with corruption].
If this is the work of an almighty god, you should advise him to take some poetry lessons.
Quote from: "MitchellDaBomb"Quote from: "Hijiri Byakuren"Did you seriously just argue your case on the basis of poetry!?
Metrical Compositions...His grammatical structures, and use of multiple entendres..and their rhythmic pattern when read...
outmatch any human form of poetry.
O SON OF MAN! Thou art My dominion and My dominion perisheth not; wherefore fearest thou thy perishing? Thou art My light and My light shall never be extinguished; why dost thou dread extinction? Thou art My glory and My glory fadeth not; thou art My robe and My robe shall never be outworn. Abide then in thy love for Me, that thou mayest find Me in the realm of glory.
The Quran does the same.
By the sun and its brightness
And [by] the moon when it follows it
And [by] the day when it displays it
And [by] the night when it covers it
And [by] the sky and He who constructed it
And [by] the earth and He who spread it
And [by] the soul and He who proportioned it
And inspired it [with discernment of] its wickedness and its righteousness,
He has succeeded who purifies it,
And he has failed who instills it [with corruption].
You still have refused to give me the number to your dealer.
really folks, you can't fix that kind of stupid.
Quote from: "The Skeletal Atheist"Quote from: "MitchellDaBomb"Quote from: "Hijiri Byakuren"Did you seriously just argue your case on the basis of poetry!?
Metrical Compositions...His grammatical structures, and use of multiple entendres..and their rhythmic pattern when read...
outmatch any human form of poetry.
O SON OF MAN! Thou art My dominion and My dominion perisheth not; wherefore fearest thou thy perishing? Thou art My light and My light shall never be extinguished; why dost thou dread extinction? Thou art My glory and My glory fadeth not; thou art My robe and My robe shall never be outworn. Abide then in thy love for Me, that thou mayest find Me in the realm of glory.
The Quran does the same.
By the sun and its brightness
And [by] the moon when it follows it
And [by] the day when it displays it
And [by] the night when it covers it
And [by] the sky and He who constructed it
And [by] the earth and He who spread it
And [by] the soul and He who proportioned it
And inspired it [with discernment of] its wickedness and its righteousness,
He has succeeded who purifies it,
And he has failed who instills it [with corruption].
You still have refused to give me the number to your dealer.
Private dealer, with public affiliations
Show me a sura like this.
O KINGS of the earth! Give ear unto the Voice of God, calling from this sublime, this fruit-laden Tree, that hath sprung out of the Crimson Hill, upon the holy Plain, intoning the words: 'There is none other God but He, the Mighty, the All-Powerful, the All-Wise.'... Fear God, O concourse of kings, and suffer not yourselves to be deprived of this most sublime grace. Fling away, then, the things ye possess, and take fast hold on the Handle of God, the Exalted, the Great. Set your hearts towards the Face of God, and abandon that which your desires have bidden you to follow, and be not of those who perish.
Quote from: "MitchellDaBomb"Show me a sura like this.
O KINGS.............. blah blah blah.
as previously forementioned,
one simply can't go a-fixing,
this obvious example of mind bending
proving again how its really a stupidisin
oh my...worship me
> Since Allah is Knowledge, all deities are his. They all exemplify traits of Allah and each religion contains a certain degree of faith. Religions are really just distortions of the divine message (and singular faith).
I realize that's your claim, but do you have any evidence? You are just repeating the fact that you believe it, which isn't evidence.
The Hindus say, no matter what god you pray to, it is Krishna who answers. That proves your claim wrong.
Frank
Quote from: "FrankDK"The Hindus say, no matter what god you pray to, it is Krishna who answers. That prove your claim wrong.
Frank
Oh snap. you just got schooled Mitchy, ole Frank proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are wrong. You are foolish for following the wrong god. Now you're going to ...wherever Krishna sends the bad folk.. Must suck to be you eh?
Quote from: "MitchellDaBomb"Quote from: "Hijiri Byakuren"Did you seriously just argue your case on the basis of poetry!?
Metrical Compositions...His grammatical structures, and use of multiple entendres..and their rhythmic pattern when read...
outmatch any human form of poetry.
O SON OF MAN! Thou art My dominion and My dominion perisheth not; wherefore fearest thou thy perishing? Thou art My light and My light shall never be extinguished; why dost thou dread extinction? Thou art My glory and My glory fadeth not; thou art My robe and My robe shall never be outworn. Abide then in thy love for Me, that thou mayest find Me in the realm of glory.
The Quran does the same.
By the sun and its brightness
And [by] the moon when it follows it
And [by] the day when it displays it
And [by] the night when it covers it
And [by] the sky and He who constructed it
And [by] the earth and He who spread it
And [by] the soul and He who proportioned it
And inspired it [with discernment of] its wickedness and its righteousness,
He has succeeded who purifies it,
And he has failed who instills it [with corruption].
Well, I'd give it a 6. Good beat, and easy to dance to, but not much substance.
Quote from: "Jmpty"Quote from: "MitchellDaBomb"Quote from: "Hijiri Byakuren"Did you seriously just argue your case on the basis of poetry!?
Metrical Compositions...His grammatical structures, and use of multiple entendres..and their rhythmic pattern when read...
outmatch any human form of poetry.
O SON OF MAN! Thou art My dominion and My dominion perisheth not; wherefore fearest thou thy perishing? Thou art My light and My light shall never be extinguished; why dost thou dread extinction? Thou art My glory and My glory fadeth not; thou art My robe and My robe shall never be outworn. Abide then in thy love for Me, that thou mayest find Me in the realm of glory.
The Quran does the same.
By the sun and its brightness
And [by] the moon when it follows it
And [by] the day when it displays it
And [by] the night when it covers it
And [by] the sky and He who constructed it
And [by] the earth and He who spread it
And [by] the soul and He who proportioned it
And inspired it [with discernment of] its wickedness and its righteousness,
He has succeeded who purifies it,
And he has failed who instills it [with corruption].
Well, I'd give it a 6. Good beat, and easy to dance to, but not much substance.
^ I love this. It's humorous, but at the same time so true. Poetry can make the most empty thought sound so compelling. But in the end, it's still just an empty thought.
Quote from: "FrankDK"> Since Allah is Knowledge, all deities are his. They all exemplify traits of Allah and each religion contains a certain degree of faith. Religions are really just distortions of the divine message (and singular faith).
I realize that's your claim, but do you have any evidence? You are just repeating the fact that you believe it, which isn't evidence.
The Hindus say, no matter what god you pray to, it is Krishna who answers. That proves your claim wrong.
Frank
Krishna shares an exalted station with Abraham, Moses, Zoroaster, Buddha, Muhammad, Jesus, the Báb, and Baha'ullah as one of the Manifestations of the Message...Krishna bows to Allah(Vishnu). I already said this: The Final Evidence will not be Evidence at all...What science would come to would either be an answer with or without faith.
> Krishna bows to Allah(Vishnu).
But Allah and Vishnu are very different gods.
> I already said this: The Final Evidence will not be Evidence at all...What science would come to would either be an answer with or without faith.
That doesn't make any sense, but you are correct: you already said that. You don't have any evidence. You believe what you want. Some people believe what they want, some people believe what the evidence indicates. I could no more believe your myths just because I wanted to than you could accept reality and admit your myths are just stories.
There is no god; get over it.
Frank
Quote from: "FrankDK"> Krishna bows to Allah(Vishnu).
But Allah and Vishnu are very different gods.
> I already said this: The Final Evidence will not be Evidence at all...What science would come to would either be an answer with or without faith.
That doesn't make any sense, but you are correct: you already said that. You don't have any evidence. You believe what you want. Some people believe what they want, some people believe what the evidence indicates. I could no more believe your myths just because I wanted to than you could accept reality and admit your myths are just stories.
There is no god; get over it.
Frank
Vishnu is the All-Pervading One, The Power of the Supreme Being...while Allah is The Majestic, The Supreme, The Arbitrator and The All-Embracing...
They are Singular Names applied to a Singular God (that Encompasses all Gods)
By final evidence I mean the furtherest Knowledge that Science could potentially lead us...To the End of the Known Material Universe, But Never Beyond.
Quote from: "MitchellDaBomb"Private dealer, with public affiliations
Show me a sura like this.
O KINGS of the earth! Give ear unto the Voice of God, calling from this sublime, this fruit-laden Tree, that hath sprung out of the Crimson Hill, upon the holy Plain, intoning the words: 'There is none other God but He, the Mighty, the All-Powerful, the All-Wise.'... Fear God, O concourse of kings, and suffer not yourselves to be deprived of this most sublime grace. Fling away, then, the things ye possess, and take fast hold on the Handle of God, the Exalted, the Great. Set your hearts towards the Face of God, and abandon that which your desires have bidden you to follow, and be not of those who perish.
Did you just challenge me to a rap battle with Allah?
> Vishnu is the All-Pervading One, The Power of the Supreme Being...while Allah is The Majestic, The Supreme, The Arbitrator and The All-Embracing...
They are Singular Names applied to a Singular God (that Encompasses all Gods)
Gods that people made up. There's no evidence that any of them exist. Just because you believe it doesn't make it true.
Frank
Quote from: "FrankDK"> Vishnu is the All-Pervading One, The Power of the Supreme Being...while Allah is The Majestic, The Supreme, The Arbitrator and The All-Embracing...
They are Singular Names applied to a Singular God (that Encompasses all Gods)
Gods that people made up. There's no evidence that any of them exist. Just because you believe it doesn't make it true.
Frank
And there never will be any evidence...Never until you die.
> And there never will be any evidence...Never until you die.
Well, you finally admitted there is no evidence and there never will be.
What happens if, when you die, you find out the Catholics were right? You are going to Hell. What if the Baptists were right? You are going to Hell. What if the Jehovah's Witnesses were right? The Seventh Day Adventists? The Mormons? The Hindus? People have invented thousands of gods. Even if we assume there is a god (which there probably isn't), the chances of your chosen god being the real one are vanishingly small.
If you choose to believe in one particular god or another, I support your right to do so. I don't support your trying to foist your beliefs on others, or making laws or killing people based on your interpretation of what you think your probably nonexistent god may have said.
Frank
Quote from: "FrankDK"> And there never will be any evidence...Never until you die.
Well, you finally admitted there is no evidence and there never will be.
What happens if, when you die, you find out the Catholics were right? You are going to Hell. What if the Baptists were right? You are going to Hell. What if the Jehovah's Witnesses were right? The Seventh Day Adventists? The Mormons? The Hindus? People have invented thousands of gods. Even if we assume there is a god (which there probably isn't), the chances of your chosen god being the real one are vanishingly small.
If you choose to believe in one particular god or another, I support your right to do so. I don't support your trying to foist your beliefs on others, or making laws or killing people based on your interpretation of what you think your probably nonexistent god may have said.
Frank
Of course there will never be any...Can you fathom a day when humans transcend time and space and attempt to reach god? These realms are Universal and Stagnant, which means that they are Above us, since we are material.
I don't mind admitting that. Faith is much stronger than evidence..Evidence only supports faith, to your dismay. All people of faith are right, because they believe in a higher power..which is the first step to certitude.
I haven't tried to force my beliefs on anyone..I believe in all religions and all people..we are all one..truly i only want to spread unity and love... and want to provoke insightful thought.
QuoteAll people of faith are right,
Then I hereby proclaim to have absolute faith that you're a dumbass, so I guess that means I'm now right and you're a dumbass.
> Of course there will never be any...Can you fathom a day when humans transcend time and space and attempt to reach god?
Since your god doesn't exist, your question is meaningless. If he did exist, he could make his presence known. If he did exist and turned out to be the kind of god that would deliberately hide any evidence of his existence, so only delusional people believed in him, then he isn't worth worshiping.
> These realms are Universal and Stagnant, which means that they are Above us, since we are material.
Mental masturbation - worthless as an argument.
> I don't mind admitting that. Faith is much stronger than evidence..
Only to the delusional.
> Evidence only supports faith, to your dismay.
No, the evidence contradicts your faith. But you aren't dismayed, because you are immune to evidence.
> All people of faith are right, because they believe in a higher power..which is the first step to certitude.
So if you delude yourself into believing in something that doesn't exist, eventually you become certain that the thing that doesn't exist really exists. The bizarre part is that you don't see how crazy that is.
> I haven't tried to force my beliefs on anyone..I believe in all religions and all people..we are all one..truly i only want to spread unity and love... and want to provoke insightful thought.
You haven't offered any insightful thought here, only spewed nonsense.
I harbor no illusions that I can free you from your delusions. It is clear that you are so far gone that no amount of reason could bring you back to reality. OK, I accept that there are people like that. But you got that way somehow, someone presented specious arguments to you, and you fell for them. Now you are presenting those same specious arguments to others, and I'm trying to keep others from falling for them the way you did.
Frank
Quote from: "MitchellDaBomb"Faith is much stronger than evidence..
Well, it does have a powerful effect in that people often tend to defend the things they can't prove with more vigor than facts that can be discovered and observed. I've often wondered why that is because it doesn't make sense to act like that.
Quote from: "MitchellDaBomb"All people of faith are right, because they believe in a higher power..
which is the first step to certitude.
What a load of unadulterated crap. You can't just string a bunch of made up ideas and imagined connections between unrelated thoughts and then proudly pronounce that you have just spoken some truth. Bla bla bla.
Quote from: "MitchellDaBomb"I haven't tried to force my beliefs on anyone..I believe in all religions and all people..we are all one..truly i only want to spread unity and love... and want to provoke insightful thought.
Bullshit, you are just blathering nonsense, telling us lies, and claiming it's real because you say it's real. Get off you ass and prove something instead of going around making authoritative pronouncements about incoherent thoughts that rattle around in your disorganized brain.
QuoteAll people of faith are right,
Then atheists who believe in atheism (what else)
MUST be right... :P
Quote from: "FrankDK"> Of course there will never be any...Can you fathom a day when humans transcend time and space and attempt to reach god?
Since your god doesn't exist, your question is meaningless. If he did exist, he could make his presence known. If he did exist and turned out to be the kind of god that would deliberately hide any evidence of his existence, so only delusional people believed in him, then he isn't worth worshiping.
> These realms are Universal and Stagnant, which means that they are Above us, since we are material.
Mental masturbation - worthless as an argument.
> I don't mind admitting that. Faith is much stronger than evidence..
Only to the delusional.
> Evidence only supports faith, to your dismay.
No, the evidence contradicts your faith. But you aren't dismayed, because you are immune to evidence.
> All people of faith are right, because they believe in a higher power..which is the first step to certitude.
So if you delude yourself into believing in something that doesn't exist, eventually you become certain that the thing that doesn't exist really exists. The bizarre part is that you don't see how crazy that is.
> I haven't tried to force my beliefs on anyone..I believe in all religions and all people..we are all one..truly i only want to spread unity and love... and want to provoke insightful thought.
You haven't offered any insightful thought here, only spewed nonsense.
I harbor no illusions that I can free you from your delusions. It is clear that you are so far gone that no amount of reason could bring you back to reality. OK, I accept that there are people like that. But you got that way somehow, someone presented specious arguments to you, and you fell for them. Now you are presenting those same specious arguments to others, and I'm trying to keep others from falling for them the way you did.
Frank
and what if these arguments are right? There's no evidence against them..and all of you guys seem to just further help my cause...You give me new knowledge each time you respond, thus completing parts of thought that I haven't pondered yet...even though many of you respond with debasing statements and jargon...All the evidence in the world would point me to god because I can see all the sides with the faith..Its very helpful
Quote from: "MitchellDaBomb"and what if these arguments are right? There's no evidence against them..and all of you guys seem to just further help my cause...You give me new knowledge each time you respond, thus completing parts of thought that I haven't pondered yet...even though many of you respond with debasing statements and jargon...All the evidence in the world would point me to god because I can see all the sides with the faith..Its very helpful
Hold on a sec guys, we have to stop ridiculing this guy. We didn't realize you were a superhero with the superhuman power to see all sides of faith and cause changes in the physical universe just by thinking about it. If what he's saying is true, he can stop world hunger and bring about world peace by tapping into those extra dimensions and willing it to happen. There is no evidence that he cannot do these things, so every second he doesn't solve world hunger and bring about world peace is time spent purposefully causing harm to the human race.
Quote from: "Icarus"Quote from: "MitchellDaBomb"and what if these arguments are right? There's no evidence against them..and all of you guys seem to just further help my cause...You give me new knowledge each time you respond, thus completing parts of thought that I haven't pondered yet...even though many of you respond with debasing statements and jargon...All the evidence in the world would point me to god because I can see all the sides with the faith..Its very helpful
Hold on a sec guys, we have to stop ridiculing this guy. We didn't realize you were a superhero with the superhuman power to see all sides of faith and cause changes in the physical universe just by thinking about it. If what he's saying is true, he can stop world hunger and bring about world peace by tapping into those extra dimensions and willing it to happen. There is no evidence that he cannot do these things, so every second he doesn't solve world hunger and bring about world peace is time spent purposefully causing harm to the human race.
haha I will try my best. Ridicule implies insult, which you all fail at miserably :)
Quote from: "MitchellDaBomb"haha I will try my best. Ridicule implies insult, which you all fail at miserably :)
Our goal isn't to insult, it's to have fun ;) You acknowledge that using your logic to make silly argument qualifies as ridicule right? So why is using your logic to make silly arguments not ridiculous when you do it?
Mitchell: The apple, orange, banana and other fruits are all fruits but the kumquat is the most exalted of all fruits and has special powers that I know of by the very grace that I have eaten kumquats.
Normal people: lol..er....wat?
Mitchell: Kumquats are the very best of all fruits.
Normal people: can you give us some evidence that it is the very best?
Mitchell: Kumquats speak to me when I eat them and the others do not, therefore they are inferior, kumquats rule the other fruits.
Normal people: thats pretty crazy, I think the orange is the best.
Mitchell: they are all part of the grandness of fruit and surely the orange is a great fruit but kumquat is the best because it has spoken to me and told me so, that you cannot see this is troubling but I can help, trust me and eat nothing but kumquat.
Normal people: Yeah..right, how about if we just go about eating fruits of all kinds thank you very much.
Mitchell: this will be fine, but in the end you will be tortured forever and your soul banished to hell for your impious ways and simply for not believing me.
Normal people: righttttttt.
Mitchell: I am only here to enlightened you. You may choose what fruit you wish but only the kumquat will lead you to nirvahnah. It has spoken to me, and of course I cannot prove it, and you should take my word for it because surely I would not lie about something as important.
Normal people: *changes channel*
Quote from: "Icarus"Quote from: "MitchellDaBomb"haha I will try my best. Ridicule implies insult, which you all fail at miserably :)
Our goal isn't to insult, it's to have fun ;) You acknowledge that using your logic to make silly argument qualifies as ridicule right? So why is using your logic to make silly arguments not ridiculous when you do it?
Because I have certitude..
Haha I've never tried a kumquat...Nice allusions though..although very petty
Quote from: "MitchellDaBomb"Because I have certitude..
Haha I've never tried a kumquat...Nice allusions though..although very petty
(I found it ironic how you chose fruits..like the gardens of the abode and hell.)
I have more certitude.... Therefore you have to accept all my arguments over yours (by your own logic, don't you hate when that happens).
Quote from: "Icarus"Quote from: "MitchellDaBomb"Because I have certitude..
Haha I've never tried a kumquat...Nice allusions though..although very petty
(I found it ironic how you chose fruits..like the gardens of the abode and hell.)
I have more certitude.... Therefore you have to accept all my arguments over yours (by your own logic, don't you hate when that happens).
I love that..makes things more interesting
Quote from: "MitchellDaBomb"I've never tried a kumquat...Nice allusions though..although very petty
Petty? There is absolute truth that fruit has helped the human race. There is absolute truth that fruit exists. You are the one presenting the petty.
Quote from: "aitm"Quote from: "MitchellDaBomb"I've never tried a kumquat...Nice allusions though..although very petty
Petty? There is absolute truth that fruit has helped the human race. There is absolute truth that fruit exists. You are the one presenting the petty.
There are good fruits and bad fruits, on this plane, and in the hereafter. Some fruits are poison, and some are refreshing. There is absolute truth that the concept of anything exists, but the only concept that incites fear into the hearts of men is Death...Like I said before, everything is perceptual in this life, except for death
You're a scaredy cat. I don't fear death. Apparently your fear of it is so overwhelming it has rotted away your brain before you even died.
Quote from: "Plu"You're a scaredy cat. I don't fear death. Apparently your fear of it is so overwhelming it has rotted away your brain before you even died.
When death comes knocking at your door...you won't be enjoying yourself idly.
I fear death because I fear my lord...You too fear death, even if you perceive not.
Quote from: "MitchellDaBomb"Quote from: "Plu"You're a scaredy cat. I don't fear death. Apparently your fear of it is so overwhelming it has rotted away your brain before you even died.
When death comes knocking at your door...you won't be enjoying yourself idly.
I fear death because I fear my lord...You too fear death, even if you perceive not.
I don't fear death. As you have said many times before, what's the point in being afraid of something that is going to happen no matter what you do? No, the only thing I fear is wasting my life, something you seem to be doing in spades.
Quote from: "MitchellDaBomb"Quote from: "Plu"You're a scaredy cat. I don't fear death. Apparently your fear of it is so overwhelming it has rotted away your brain before you even died.
When death comes knocking at your door...you won't be enjoying yourself idly.
I fear death because I fear my lord...You too fear death, even if you perceive not.
I'll make an analogy that I've made before: just because I don't want to step in a pile of dog shit doesn't mean I'm scared of it.
Quote from: "MitchellDaBomb"I love that..makes things more interesting
Yep, stubbornness and the refusal to accept anyone else's thoughts that happen do disagree with the fantasy world in your head always makes discussions more interesting. Discussions only using evidence are boring as hell; where's the fun in not being able to yell "Pink unicorn" as an explanation for an event and have it accepted as a valid argument.
I don't fear death unless I'm fixating on it during a panic attack. (I have fucking 5 Hour Energy to thank for those lovely episodes.)
How can we fear death if we haven't died? We fear dying because we are programed to survive. We fear for our lives not death. Death is an imaginary fear like the fear of hell. I love it when people think other people fear the same imaginary fears they have. I have been clinically dead 2or3 times during surgery, I have had many panic attacks that are a living hell for about 20 minutes. I had three seizures that resulted in panic attacks. I had blood clots in my legs three times that went to my lungs that is fatal 30% of the time.
I had an ischemic attack in my back yard walking that made my heart go unstable while my vision ceased to exist, then my hearing while still conscious knowing I was going to be dead shortly. My emergency doctor told me if I had known to keep breathing deeply I would have died in 20-30 seconds. I was not afraid because I was too busy fighting for my life. I look forward to death, nether wishing for it, nor denying it, just waiting for non consciousness and physical death and not being aware.
I can't think of anything worse than not dying. Until you have spent days like I have being deathly sick and pegging out the meter on pain, you have no idea what a relief it is to die. I have PTAD disorder from events in my life that are far worse than being unconscious and dying. Only a brave man fights for his life, a coward dies because it is easy to die and be afraid of imaginary things all the time by superstitious nonsense thinking you won't. :P :roll: Solitary
Quote from: "Solitary"How can we fear death if we haven't died? We fear dying because we are programed to survive. We fear for our lives not death. Death is an imaginary fear like the fear of hell. I love it when people think other people fear the same imaginary fears they have. I have been clinically dead 2or3 times during surgery, I have had many panic attacks that are a living hell for about 20 minutes. I had three seizures that resulted in panic attacks. I had blood clots in my legs three times that went to my lungs that is fatal 30% of the time.
I had an ischemic attack in my back yard walking that made my heart go unstable while my vision ceased to exist, then my hearing while still conscious knowing I was going to be dead shortly. My emergency doctor told me if I had known to keep breathing deeply I would have died in 20-30 seconds. I was not afraid because I was too busy fighting for my life. I look forward to death, nether wishing for it, nor denying it, just waiting for non consciousness and physical death and not being aware.
I can't think of anything worse than not dying. Until you have spent days like I have being deathly sick and pegging out the meter on pain, you have no idea what a relief it is to die. I have PTAD disorder from events in my life that are far worse than being unconscious and dying. Only a brave man fights for his life, a coward dies because it is easy to die and be afraid of imaginary things all the time by superstitious nonsense thinking you won't. :P :roll: Solitary
But the action of death is your worse fear...you said I don't understand pain of being deathly sick...which means you fear Deathly illness.
Were programmed to survive...like you said...How is death not the biggest fear if it is programmed within our very being?..Surely you don't wish to die, in solitary