My wife and I returning to the United States from the Netherlands went through similar interrogation because of the places I have been to, though not as extreme as this man went through.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/niels-ger ... ostpopular (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/niels-gerson-lohman/us-border-crossing_b_4098130.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular) :roll: It could be because a dog kept following me around sniffing at my feet. 8-[ He! He! Solitary
QuoteThe Terrorists Have Won
I could have told you that 12 years ago!
I have heard several Europeans say they have had very unpleasant time trying to come into the U.S. or knew people who were harassed coming into the country. It's ridiculous.
I wonder if they specifically look for immigration officials who have personalities that lean towards those of paranoid bullies.
Yeah, you often see on the news when militants in the middle east shoot guns in the air chanting NOT death to America, but PAIN IN THE ASS TO VISITORS TO AMERICA!
It's game over, eh?
Quote from: "Eric1958"I wonder if they specifically look for immigration officials who have personalities that lean towards those of paranoid bullies.
That. Or maybe the nature of their job lends itself to paranoia. Better to be overcautious than to be undercautious, I suppose. But there's that and then there's haranguing a well-traveled visitor simply because he's traveled to a few muslim countries. Talk about overdoing it.
His and your experiences are unfortunate, but are isolated incidents that do not reflect the larger trend in entries to the USA. The US has for the most part been relaxing entry requirements and inconveniences, and the number of foreign visitors to the US has increased more than 50% since a post 9/11 trough in 2003. For the first time in the nation's history we have a public-private organization, Brand USA, advertising for tourists to come to the USA. The State Department is spending millions to streamline visa processing, especially in Brazil and China whose tourists like to go on US shopping sprees. It seems to be working since we're approaching $200 billion a year in foreign tourism.
QuoteNobody even asked me to get through a body scan. I was only asked to open my carry on bags in Munich (and that's standard for everyone) when departing and again back in Munich because I forgot a little birthday sprinkle can which the German officer let me pass with 'Oh I see, that looks messy though'. Not entering or leaving US customs once I was asked to open my carry ones. They of course opened my main luggage after I gave it in Chicago and left an official note which is fine.
I would just like to say that I think it is domestic terrorism that I, an American citizen for my entire life, am treated worse every time I go to the airport than some Muslim Communist Turkish person. :P
I am lucky if they don't wand me and give me a pat down... in my last 4 flights, two of them I was patted down at least once at one of the airports I went through. Last time I was in LAX I was pulled aside when ever we were boarding the plane and forced to show I.D. to two TSA people and I think a actual cop.
I don't know if I look like someone on a terrorist watch list or a drug smuggler or what, but it is inconvenient. At least the worst they have done is make me prove I am who I am and not take me back for questioning or any shit like that.
Going through customs in China is a little surreal, but other than that, I've never had an issue.
I had an issue traveling on a domestic flight, so I'll have to agree about the terrorists winning. I was completely humiliated by a TSA employee in SAT because he wanted me to remove my sweater and I was wearing a sheer tank under it, so I did not want to. He asked me to remove it by mumbling "sweater, sweater, sweater, sweater" at me, which I could not hear or understand until he said it for about the tenth time, at which time he was irritated and nasty. When I explained that I really really did not want to remove my sweater in public because I was not wearing sufficient clothing underneath, he yelled over to his colleague loudly "She doesn't want to follow the rules, she needs to be patted down" and quite angrily directed me to stand in a glass cage for a few minutes while my husband waited for me on the other side of security. It was a short and otherwise uneventful detention, but made me think about what some people have to go through.
A colleague was just telling me about her experience flying into Sydney, where people without tickets are allowed right up to the gates and you didn't have to go through an x ray or pat-down just to get into the gate area. Remember how that was? It was like that here not so long ago.
On Sept 12 2001 I was walking through the Galeria shopping mall in Encino CA wearing a back back as I alwys do, being a bicycle commuter, and lots of people were wathcing me, terrified.
Yes. You are correct.
Quote from: "drunkenshoe"Really? I mean, really?
Terrorist have won, because America has created an abusive culture in the name of national security?
Because America is the only country hit by terrorists, so professional, organised assholism and douchebagery must be the way? Terrorists have won, because Americans can not take their heads out of their asses to improve their belligerent culture? There is nothing with the way the individuals behave in any of these stories, right? Oh yeah, look it's just terrorists, they have won!
You know what, I don't know if it is the Americans or their culture that is stupid or not, I don't really care, but for the place you claim with all that sources and 'freedom' and superiority complex most of you cannot add 2 and 2. (Not literally.)
When the people are willing to give up their freedoms for the illusion of security, then yes, the terrorists have won.
It's a bit over the top, but entering the US has never been a pleasant experience for me. I've never encountered what that guy did, but then I'm a US citizen. Even when I meet a friendly guard, rare experience that it is, I'm already stressed by the anticipation because I expect American border agents to be assholes. They are too. Assholes! I don't know if they are trained or selected, but their prick attitudes were like that back in the 60s.
Entering Canada, they ask you what your reason for coming to Canada is, and usually end the conversation with, "Welcome to Canada." Turn around the next day and return to the States and there's a 80% chance you will be treated with disrespect if not outright distain. However, this has not been my experience when entering ports in the US with my yacht. I don't know why that is. Maybe it's like they think I have a lot of money.
Quote from: "drunkenshoe"You know what, I don't know if it is the Americans or their culture that is stupid or not, I don't really care, but for the place you claim with all that sources and 'freedom' and superiority complex most of you cannot add 2 and 2. (Not literally.)
Uh. Thanks.
Most of our "screeners" are uneducated idjits, one step away from living in momma's basement. That role is the greatest thing in their lives.
"YOU and YOU alone are the guardians of the AMERICAN way...god bless you all, now go out there and stop them TERRORISTS.- amen"
I have never had what I would say is a pleasant experience flying international or even locally. My oldest son was strip searched when we went skiing in Colorado. I wasn't even asked any question and just showed my passport. My son has a passport that has almost every page stamped from going all over the world. He's in China now and never had a problem coming or going there. It may not be bad now, but it sure was after 911 happened.
I saw a very young girl felt up by an officer and told him how I felt about it and had security hold me back. Yes, if you are real cooperative and act like a herd of cattle you usually don't have a problem, but the whole idea of search and seizure is against the Constitution and if you complain or refuse to answer their questions, or do it sarcastically they abuse their authority big time.
I don't care how nice they are when they act like guards in a prison or concentration camp. People are too willing to give up their rights for security when it doesn't stop a terrorist but just makes life harder. How many terrorist have been stopped? Not one single one. Think about it. :-k If a suicide bomber has a vest of explosives on and is in line to be checked, or a suitcase of explosives---why wouldn't he set it off there?
The whole idea of security is a joke as anyone involved in it will tell you. If someone really wants to harm you and has half a brain in his head or doesn't care if he dies, he will get you. I'm not so sure I'm that glad about people enjoying going through security as long as they are being treated nice even though they are giving up their freedom on a lie. Solitary
I have traveled a lot and even though most of the time I have just been annoyed by stupid TSA personal in the US, it can get ugly very quickly as I have seen to others.
QuoteIf you travel enough, you've seen it all -- and possibly some of the awful things that can happen while traveling will have actually happened to you. But nothing I've read about or experienced comes close to what Monica Emmerson experienced while at Reagan National Airport on June 11th while traveling with her 19-month-old toddler. This isn't one of those Catch-22 bureaucratic snafus; this isn't about rules being applied to the letter. This story is mostly about what can happen simply because the authorities in charge decide that they're going to exercise their authority because they can, regardless of whether it's legal or right or makes any sense at all.
And if this can happen to a former law enforcement officer with the United States Secret Service, it can happen to anyone.
The incident started when Monica, who left the Secret Service to raise a family, was stopped while going through airport security because there was water in her son's sippy cup. The sippy cup was seized by TSA. Monica wanted the cup back because the sippy cup was the only way her son would drink -- and it was a long flight between Washington, DC and Reno, Nevada where she was going for a family reunion.
If you've ever had a toddler you understand about sippy cups.
So she was willing to spill the water out. Drink the water. Anything -- all that she wanted was to be able to have a cup that her 19-month-old toddler could drink from.
Here's what happened in Monica's words:
"I demanded to speak to a TSA [Transportation Security Administration] supervisor who asked me if the water in the sippy cup was 'nursery water or other bottled water.' I explained that the sippy cup water was filtered tap water. The sippy cup was seized as my son was pointing and crying for his cup. I asked if I could drink the water to get the cup back, and was advised that I would have to leave security and come back through with an empty cup in order to retain the cup. As I was escorted out of security by TSA and a police officer, I unscrewed the cup to drink the water, which accidentally spilled because I was so upset with the situation.
"At this point, I was detained against my will by the police officer and threatened to be arrested for endangering other passengers with the spilled 3 to 4 ounces of water. I was ordered to clean the water, so I got on my hands and knees while my son sat in his stroller with no shoes on since they were also screened and I had no time to put them back on his feet. I asked to call back my fiancé, who I could still see from afar, waiting for us to clear security, to watch my son while I was being detained, and the officer threatened to arrest me if I moved. So I yelled past security to get the attention of my fiancé.
"I was ordered to apologize for the spilled water, and again threatened with arrest. I was threatened several times with arrest while detained, and while three other police officers were called to the scene of the mother with the 19 month old. A total of four police officers and three TSA officers reported to the scene where I was being held against my will. I was also told that I should not disrespect the officer and could be arrested for this too. I apologized to the officer and she continued to detain me despite me telling her that I would miss my flight. The officer advised me that I should have thought about this before I 'intentionally spilled the water!'"
Monica said that the incident ended this way: "I missed my flight, needless to say after being detained for over 40 minutes. After the officer was done humiliating me, I was advised that I could go through the security check point in an attempt to catch my flight. The officer insisted that my son and I be rescreened despite us both being detained and under her control the entire time."
During the weeks and months after 9/11 some passengers who were caught with unidentified fluids while going through airport security were told to drink the liquid (including breast milk) to prove that it wasn't an explosive. In one incident, a fourteen year old boy was ordered to drink water that he was carrying, and it turned out that this was unclean pond water he was carrying for a science project. Monica was more than happy to drink her child's tap water --all three or four ounces of it-- and tried, in fact. But it was the trying and spilling that seems to have escalated this into a situation that required the presence of four TSA officers and three police officers.
TSA found no other security problems with Monica Emmerson. Not even a nail clipper. Just the water and the sippy cup.
TSA's rules allow passengers to take up to three ounces of liquid on board; they also allow parents to take milk or baby formula on board in larger quantities than that, if declared to TSA. But the question that she was asked by TSA --was this "nursery water" in the sippy cup?-- was an unanswerable one, since there's no such thing as nursery water in the TSA regulations, and it's not a generic term.
Monica Emmerson was detained for 45 minutes. She wasn't questioned about possible ties to terrorists. Her carry-on items weren't rigorously searched -- or even searched again. Neither the police nor TSA took any action that indicated that they throught she might be a security risk. She was just detained, harassed and threatened with arrest. All because of a sippy cup with water in it.
Monday, November 8, 2010
TSA abuse in airports is completely out of control with more and more cases of security workers groping women, fondling children, abusing naked body scanners, and interrogating passengers emerging every week, and yet the government's answer to the epidemic of oppression is to hand TSA thugs more power with which to harass American citizens.
The story of Infowars employee Michelle, who along with her child was sexually assaulted by TSA staff after refusing to go through a naked body scanner, has gone viral on the Internet after it was picked up by the Drudge Report, a website leading the charge in the backlash against airport oppression at the hands of the TSA that has now led to the world's largest pilot's association boycotting the use of naked body scanners.
Michelle's traumatic experience represents just the tip of the iceberg.
The launch of naked body scanners, which were hastily installed in the wake of the Christmas Day bombing attempt despite the fact that they would not have stopped the attack, has only worsened the levels of abuse dished out to passengers.
The body scanners were vigorously promoted by people like former Homeland Security chief Michael Chertoff and others who stood to reap a financial windfall from their implementation, despite the fact that scientists at Columbia University and the Inter-Agency Committee on Radiation Safety, along with other scientific bodies, have all warned that the devices increase the risk of developing cancer.
Stories about TSA officials abusing the use of the scanners have become commonplace.
44-year-old Rolando Negrin beat his supervisor with a police baton after he had cracked jokes about Negrin's small manhood when he walked through a naked scanner as part of a training exercise at Miami International Airport. The story underscored the fact that authorities had been lying all along about the claim that the scanners did not show sensitive details of genitalia.
The aggressive campaign on behalf of governments and the media to sell the public on invasive body scanners has been accompanied by the reassurance that the devices do not show details of genitals, an obvious attempt to counter the fact that the machines represent a virtual strip search as well as violating laws against child pornography.
Despite assurances from the TSA that the scanners do not show the shape of genitalia, sample images from their own website clearly display the outline of the penis. In addition, after nearly a year of authorities lying in claiming that the technology used in airports did not allow the naked images to be saved or transmitted, it emerged that police agencies, including the U.S. Marshals Service, who were using the same systems, were storing naked body scanner images. The TSA's own documents also confirmed that the machines must "allow exporting of image data in real time" and provide a mechanism for "high-speed transfer of image data over the network."
Indian film star Shahrukh Khan told a BBC talk show that naked images of his body from the scanner were printed out and circulated by airport staff at Heathrow in London. Heathrow denied the claim but Khan himself never retracted the story, and had no apparent motive for making it up.
Heathrow authorities were unable to deny a later example of the scanners being abused, when it emerged that a Heathrow worker had perved over a naked image of a female colleague after she passed through one of the devices, before commenting, "I love those gigantic tits".
Jo Margetson, 29, reported John Laker, 25, to the police after she had entered the x-ray machine by mistake and Laker took the image before making lewd comments.
Airport security staff workers are among the least trustworthy people to operate these machines. These individuals are routinely caught abusing their authority for their own ego trip or sexual perversion.
As the video below illustrates, the fact that naked body scanner machines in the U.S. are manned by TSA thugs who are routinely caught abusing their power in treating the public like prison inmates only heightens the danger posed by the use of the new devices.
All this going on and not one confirmed case of a terrorist being stopped in the US. But hay, they were all "nice" to me. :roll: Solitary
Quote from: "drunkenshoe"Quote from: "Mermaid"Quote from: "drunkenshoe"You know what, I don't know if it is the Americans or their culture that is stupid or not, I don't really care, but for the place you claim with all that sources and 'freedom' and superiority complex most of you cannot add 2 and 2. (Not literally.)
Uh. Thanks.
I am not the one saying that. Hence the usage of 'is or not' in the expression.
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Quote from: "Solitary"I have never had what I would say is a pleasant experience flying international or even locally.
I don't know about flying, but driving into Mexico at San Diego the traffic is pinched down from a freeway to a single lane. Traffic slows to about 35 miles/hr, and you zoom through unattended check points. Wah La! you're now in Mexico.
Oddly, the least problems I've had with US Customs is walking back into the US from Mexico carrying a knapsack and sporting long hair. The US border official seemed uninterested. I had to initiate contact with him by asking if it was OK that I had medications with me. He looked startled like he couldn't figure out why I was dumb enough to ask him a question. He asked if I bought them in the US and that was it. I don't know if they ever stop the Mexicans, but they seemed to be just walking through. Coming in from Canada, at minimum I expect to be treated rudely.