I don't take the Bolshevist stance of hating religion because it's "superstitious." I hate it primarily because it is the diametric opposite of the free flow of information, which is one of my more fundamental personal values. It is for this reason that I hate things like communism and the corporate media at least as much, of not more.
Loaded question.
I don't hate religion. At least, not religion per se. I hate magical thinking. I hate superstition. I hate pseudoscience. I hate theocracy. And I hate fascism. And I hate the mindset that views any of the above as good for humanity.
Hate is such a strong word.
I don't.
Quote from: "Hydra009"Loaded question.
I don't hate religion. At least, not religion per se. I hate magical thinking. I hate superstition. I hate pseudoscience. I hate theocracy. And I hate fascism. And I hate the mindset that views any of the above as good for humanity.
This is how I feel. If people kept their religion to themselves or used it only for the betterment of humanity through charitable acts, I wouldn't feel much of a need to object to it.
It enables normal people the ability and support to be able to be hateful of other religions and beliefs, be bigots, be prejudiced, kill and be killed for a belief that could be wrong with no reliable evidence to back it up that is based on Neanderthal and magical thinking. :evil: :roll: Solitary
I don't care about religion enough to generate any hate for it.
Quote from: "ApostateLois"If people kept their religion to themselves or used it only for the betterment of humanity through charitable acts, I wouldn't feel much of a need to object to it.
Even then, I dunno how I'd feel about it.
*knocks on door* "Hurry up, we're going to be late for the game"
"Just a sec...I'm talking to Creator of the Universe."
"Ah. Okay."
Coming at religion from an outsider's perspective, it definitely comes across as more than a little strange. But then again, so does a lot of human culture.
I don't hate religion, I simply reject it.
Ill be the first to say I do hate it. The suffering it is responsible for cannot realistically be measured. It gives people an excuse to kill, oppress, and hate. It keeps people from advancing the legacy of the human race. It gives them a way to reject reality and facts without being seen as lunatics.
It is likely the most destructive man made force that has ever existed, and everyone suffers because of it, whether they realize it or not.
Quote from: "ApostateLois"Quote from: "Hydra009"Loaded question.
I don't hate religion. At least, not religion per se. I hate magical thinking. I hate superstition. I hate pseudoscience. I hate theocracy. And I hate fascism. And I hate the mindset that views any of the above as good for humanity.
This is how I feel. If people kept their religion to themselves or used it only for the betterment of humanity through charitable acts, I wouldn't feel much of a need to object to it.
This is pretty much where I'm at with it...
I'm opposed to anything that's detrimental to society. Religion just happens to be one of those things.
I don't.Since religion and belief of God makes people to live properly. One can not live like an animal since he has mind different from animal and have missions and religion teaches that missions.If we are to encompass the subject,people carry both past's regrets and future's worries and thus,cannot take the pleasure of that moment but animal has no mind and take pleasure of everything without thinking.Also,if we look again animals every one of them work greatly .for example,if we ask one cow,what are you doing?you don't play football,you don't drink beer, you live like a cow.why do you come to world?then the cow would say.go open the refrigerator .milk,meat,cheese from me.you make shoes and belts from my leather,you cannot tie your pant without me.Then it would say "What are you doing here?your meat is not eat you don't have milk and so on.Then we understand that we can not do what the animals do but we can think about them,and infer that if one cow does not have compassion,knowledge and love for us then milk is given to us by SOMEONE ELSE -who has compassion&knowledge-creates the cow at the same time and worship that creator and follow what that creator wants from us.
Oh boy, I predict a very short visit.
QuoteSince religion and belief of God makes people to live properly.
I'll give you a cookie if you explain how this matches up with the existance of countries that are predominatly atheist, and how those countries are almost all rated higher on the world happiness index than most religious ones, including the US.
Quote from: "Plu"Oh boy, I predict a very short visit.
QuoteSince religion and belief of God makes people to live properly.
I'll give you a cookie if you explain how this matches up with the existance of countries that are predominatly atheist, and how those countries are almost all rated higher on the world happiness index than most religious ones, including the US.
--
living properly.it depends on which angle that we look the situation.I don't mean being economically powerful or wealthy.God has rules;who works and make efforts God gives him what he wants.being succesfull is that kind of thing.i mean living properly in terms of living morally or socially( relationships among people etc.).Also, the statistics can not tell what the people feels inside, one is not happy when he says i'm happy.There are a lot of people who looks like happy but not that happy inside of him.And one atheist can not be happy as much as one believing God since atheist believe that"?'m gonna go nothing after death",but the other says" how much hardships I confront here is nothing I will go a place that is trillions time better than that world" and feels always happy inside himself.Although he seems unhappy he is relax in his conscious.As compared atheist's maximum 100 years of fake happiness he would much more happier than him because he will be happy forever.That is real happiness.
Quotei mean living properly in terms of living morally or socially( relationships among people etc.)
According to the happiness index, atheist countries are actually better at this than religious ones.
Quote from: "brq"I don't.Since religion and belief of God makes people to live properly. One can not live like an animal since he has mind different from animal and have missions and religion teaches that missions.If we are to encompass the subject,people carry both past's regrets and future's worries and thus,cannot take the pleasure of that moment but animal has no mind and take pleasure of everything without thinking.Also,if we look again animals every one of them work greatly .for example,if we ask one cow,what are you doing?you don't play football,you don't drink beer, you live like a cow.why do you come to world?then the cow would say.go open the refrigerator .milk,meat,cheese from me.you make shoes and belts from my leather,you cannot tie your pant without me.Then it would say "What are you doing here?your meat is not eat you don't have milk and so on.Then we understand that we can not do what the animals do but we can think about them,and infer that if one cow does not have compassion,knowledge and love for us then milk is given to us by SOMEONE ELSE -who has compassion&knowledge-creates the cow at the same time and worship that creator and follow what that creator wants from us.
I can't tell if this guy is trolling or just very stupid, but either way he has made an enemy of Grammar Nazis everywhere.
I dunno. Based on his arguments I've kinda pegged him as a child. I've heard this argument before and it's usually made to children.
Of course it's totally possible that he's a lot older and just never advanced beyond this level.
Quote from: "Plu"Quotei mean living properly in terms of living morally or socially( relationships among people etc.)
According to the happiness index, atheist countries are actually better at this than religious ones.
--
the statistics can not tell what the people feels inside, one is not happy when he says i'm happy.There are a lot of people who looks like happy but not that happy inside of him.And one atheist can not be happy as much as one believing God since atheist believe that"?'m gonna go nothing after death",but the other says" how much hardships I confront here is nothing I will go a place that is trillions time better than that world" and feels always happy inside himself.Although he seems unhappy he is relax in his conscious.As compared atheist's maximum 100 years of fake happiness he would be much more happier than him because he will be happy forever.That is real happiness and the important one.This world is exam world and normally there will be pain and unhappiness but it's not important at the side of happiness that one will have in the future[/quote]
That is definetly a loaded question. I don't like to believe that I HATE religion. But the truth is, I do hate that I believed it for so long. And I let a Christian rehab convince me that god could save me. But the truth is I wasted a LOT of years doing drugs. But I wasted so many more doing RELIGION and feeling not good enough etc etc. I think I would have been much better off if I had never heard of religion, and just lived in the now. I don't think my mom meant to hurt me by religion, but I do believe that some of the churches meant harm in some weird kind of way. Maybe I do hate religion, but I do try to respect others beliefs. Me personally, been much happier without it. And I think the world would be better without it to.
Quotethe statistics can not tell what the people feels inside, one is not happy when he says i'm happy.There are a lot of people who looks like happy but not that happy inside of him.And one atheist can not be happy as much as one believing God since atheist believe that"?'m gonna go nothing after death",but the other says" how much hardships I confront here is nothing I will go a place that is trillions time better than that world" and feels always happy inside himself.
How can you know the happiness of an atheist if you claim in the line before that you cannot tell what people feel inside?
I don't think you've thought this through.
Religion NEVER made me happy. Atheism is the most fulfilling in my oppinion. And that is an educated one also. Religion just fucks people up and distorts reality.
Quote from: "fingerscrossed2013"Religion NEVER made me happy. Atheism is the most fulfilling in my oppinion. And that is an educated one also. Religion just fucks people up and distorts reality.
Just one more reason I'm glad I was never religious.
Quote from: "Plu"Quotethe statistics can not tell what the people feels inside, one is not happy when he says i'm happy.There are a lot of people who looks like happy but not that happy inside of him.And one atheist can not be happy as much as one believing God since atheist believe that"?'m gonna go nothing after death",but the other says" how much hardships I confront here is nothing I will go a place that is trillions time better than that world" and feels always happy inside himself.
How can you know the happiness of an atheist if you claim in the line before that you cannot tell what people feel inside?
I don't think you've thought this through.
--
I know I can't tell what people's inside but it's like that. Think that all world is yours but you will disapper(not exist anymore) forever after 5 minutes . can you be happy ? you can't be. This is like that because we have same feelings and some common features in some issues.Being infinite and not leaving from your beloved ones is the most wanted and common feeling of human.I've said like that because I also feel like that and other humans would feel in that way.
Quote from: "brq"I know I can't tell what people's inside but it's like that. Think that all world is yours but you will disapper(not exist anymore) forever after 5 minutes . can you be happy ? you can't be. This is like that because we have same feelings and some common features in some issues.Being infinite and not leaving from your beloved ones is the most wanted and common feeling of human.I've said like that because I also feel like that and other humans would feel in that way.
What we want and what actually exists are the same thing far less often than we'd like.
Look,those who don't believe God.
I want all of yours good.
There is one God.Human can not be left alone in the world.
Even the chair you re sitting on right now is not be made by itself--there is one carpenter of it-,
How would the human -that is trillion times complex than that chair- does not have creator? Come, believe God i swear that this true. you can't get anything just ignoring him.
There is death no one can lie about it.Death can not be killed.Until that time, whatever you live,you take pleasure become nothing at that time and after death.
I want to give one example,if we look one baby in the stomach, he has hands,mouth,foots right? but he can't use them in there.these equipments are given for another life.(world life)
Now,in just the same way,human want to live forever and be happy all the times and want another fantastic things like flying. but he can't do them in here.these feelings are given for another life(after death).
Quote from: "brq"I don't.Since religion and belief of God makes people to live properly. One can not live like an animal since he has mind different from animal and have missions and religion teaches that missions.If we are to encompass the subject,people carry both past's regrets and future's worries and thus,cannot take the pleasure of that moment but animal has no mind and take pleasure of everything without thinking.Also,if we look again animals every one of them work greatly .for example,if we ask one cow,what are you doing?you don't play football,you don't drink beer, you live like a cow.why do you come to world?then the cow would say.go open the refrigerator .milk,meat,cheese from me.you make shoes and belts from my leather,you cannot tie your pant without me.Then it would say "What are you doing here?your meat is not eat you don't have milk and so on.Then we understand that we can not do what the animals do but we can think about them,and infer that if one cow does not have compassion,knowledge and love for us then milk is given to us by SOMEONE ELSE -who has compassion&knowledge-creates the cow at the same time and worship that creator and follow what that creator wants from us.
Religion is
not,
not,
not,
not a prerequisite for happiness.
Quote from: "brq"There is one God.
Prove it!
Quote from: "GalacticBusDriver"Quote from: "brq"I don't.Since religion and belief of God makes people to live properly. One can not live like an animal since he has mind different from animal and have missions and religion teaches that missions.If we are to encompass the subject,people carry both past's regrets and future's worries and thus,cannot take the pleasure of that moment but animal has no mind and take pleasure of everything without thinking.Also,if we look again animals every one of them work greatly .for example,if we ask one cow,what are you doing?you don't play football,you don't drink beer, you live like a cow.why do you come to world?then the cow would say.go open the refrigerator .milk,meat,cheese from me.you make shoes and belts from my leather,you cannot tie your pant without me.Then it would say "What are you doing here?your meat is not eat you don't have milk and so on.Then we understand that we can not do what the animals do but we can think about them,and infer that if one cow does not have compassion,knowledge and love for us then milk is given to us by SOMEONE ELSE -who has compassion&knowledge-creates the cow at the same time and worship that creator and follow what that creator wants from us.
Religion is not, not, not, not a prerequisite for happiness.
Quote from: "brq"There is one God.
Prove it!
Religion is not prerequiste for fake happiness,but for real happinness it's must since where is the happiness that you take in 50 years ,where is the happiness that is infinite?Infinite one is real.
Not thinking death and after it is not the solution.this situation is similar to ostrich putting its head to the ground. ? will proving it just give me a time i' m writing slowly sorry about that.
Even the chair you re sitting on right now is not be made by itself--there is one carpenter of it-,
How would the human -that is trillion times complex than that chair- does not have creator?
Now i give another example,think that we enter one drugstore.there are a lot of drugs that composed of chemicals that are gathered in some specific proportions.(0.05 mg from chemical A 0.01, from B material like that)if one material's proportion is put wrongly that drug does not show it's effect.ok?
now we also think that tubes of drug's material are in another room.now if suppose that the drug is composed of by falling these tubes by the effect of wind and come together in some specific proportions and become drug in that way.it can't be ?right?
now,in just the same way every human,plant and animal is like drug that is composed of elements that gathered in some specific proportions.for example,the human has nearly 60 elements,one Cu element's proportion would not be in the specific level , human can not live normally.
how can we can't accept the drug is composed randomly--there is one chemist to do it--
in just the same way,that human cannot be composed without one GOd,we call it ALLAH.
One another thing..
There can't be two manager in the school,there can't be two reeve in one village.if they would be then there would be chaos.Seeing that there is excellent harmony in the universe WITHOUT HUMAN's DISTURBING EFFECTS ,then there must be one creator if we are to accept creator.? m writing more if you want
Quote from: "brq"where is the happiness that is infinite?Infinite one is real.
While you're at it, why don't you provide some
evidence of this infinite happiness. I can only assume you're talking about the eternal life that you good christers are always going on about. Some evidence of
that (eternal life, happy or not) will get you much fame and fortune along with many distinguished awards considering no-one,
ever, in the history of humanity has ever been able to provide the merest shred of evidence that our consciousness outlives our brains in any way shape or form.
Quote from: "brq"Even the chair you re sitting on right now is not be made by itself--there is one carpenter of it-,
How would the human -that is trillion times complex than that chair- does not have creator?
Now i give another example,think that we enter one drugstore.there are a lot of drugs that composed of chemicals that are gathered in some specific proportions.(0.05 mg from chemical A 0.01, from B material like that)if one material's proportion is put wrongly that drug does not show it's effect.ok?
now we also think that tubes of drug's material are in another room.now if suppose that the drug is composed of by falling these tubes by the effect of wind and come together in some specific proportions and become drug in that way.it can't be ?right?
now,in just the same way every human,plant and animal is like drug that is composed of elements that gathered in some specific proportions.for example,the human has nearly 60 elements,one Cu element's proportion would not be in the specific level , human can not live normally.
how can we can't accept the drug is composed randomly--there is one chemist to do it--
in just the same way,that human cannot be composed without one GOd,we call it ALLAH.
One another thing..
There can't be two manager in the school,there can't be two reeve in one village.if they would be then there would be chaos.Seeing that there is excellent harmony in the universe WITHOUT HUMAN's DISTURBING EFFECTS ,then there must be one creator if we are to accept creator.? m writing more if you want
Pure, unadulterated argument from ignorance.
Are you trolling or looking for enlightenment?
If you're looking for enlightenment:
If you really can't see how complexity can arise from non-complexity without a designer (a watch without a watchmaker) then I highly recommend you read "The Blind Watchmaker" by Richard Dawkins. "Your Inner Fish" by Neil Shubin and "The Greatest Show on Earth" by Richard Dawkins are also excellent reads. Of course, any introductory textbooks on evolution would also help you out.
If your trolling, piss-off.
Perhaps the religious are happier because they're less aware of how much the world sucks. The obvious problem, here, being that they're unwilling or unable to fix the problems making it suck to begin with.
Quote from: "Hijiri Byakuren"Perhaps the religious are happier because they're less aware of how much the world sucks. The obvious problem, here, being that they're unwilling or unable to fix the problems making it suck to begin with.
In many cases they're the root cause of the suckage.
--The one air atom does the mission of transporting of trillions of radio,wireless,sound signals.Also it makes the transportation of image an heat.So one mindless air atom does trillions of work at the same time while one smart human can not do three or four work at the same time.
This shows that these works are done to air to air atoms by POWERFUL ONE.This is the case since powerless small things can only do big jobs by relying on powerful one.for example:at war, one soldier can captive enemies' general by taking power from his uniform,thus his army,thus his state.in just the same way, one germ can overthrow one elephant by the permission of GOD which we call it ALLAH.
--Another obvious poof that there is God is that unconscious things move like conscious and do conscious actions.For example,the sun does not think that I must enlighten the people to work in day time and disappear to provide them rest.As per one mindless object can not think all of these ,there is ONE POWER thinking all of these and commanding the sun at the same time.
Also you can check out that link .one of my friend's video,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDZNBy8MdFA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDZNBy8MdFA)
and another web site that i came across on the net
http://scienceislam.com/index.php (http://scienceislam.com/index.php)
and also look for a book called "Risale i Nur Collection,WORDS,Said Nursi"
http://www.nur.gen.tr/en.html#leftmenu= ... =The+Words (http://www.nur.gen.tr/en.html#leftmenu=Risale&maincontent=Risale&islem=read&BolumId=8500&KitapId=456&KitapAd=The+Words)
i'M writing more if you want.
Quote from: "brq"--The one air atom does the mission of transporting of trillions of radio,wireless,sound signals.Also it makes the transportation of image an heat.So one mindless air atom does trillions of work at the same time while one smart human can not do three or four work at the same time.
This shows that these works are done to air to air atoms by POWERFUL ONE.This is the case since powerless small things can only do big jobs by relying on powerful one.for example:at war, one soldier can captive enemies' general by taking power from his uniform,thus his army,thus his state.in just the same way, one germ can overthrow one elephant by the permission of GOD which we call it ALLAH.
--Another obvious poof that there is God is that unconscious things move like conscious and do conscious actions.For example,the sun does not think that I must enlighten the people to work in day time amd disappear to provide them rest.As per one mindless object can not think all of these ,there is ONE POWER thinking all of these and commanding the sun at the same time.
Also you can check out that link .one of my friend's video,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDZNBy8MdFA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDZNBy8MdFA)
and another web site that i came across on the net
http://scienceislam.com/index.php (http://scienceislam.com/index.php)
i'M writing more if you want.
Do you really think the sun disappears at night just because
you can't see it? Wow. Air molecules have
NOTHING to do with radio waves (wireless is radio). If it did, we couldn't communicate with the international space station.
You have absolutely no understanding of how the physical world actually works do you?
I have a suggestion for you. Educate yourself. Seriously, drag you mind out of the superstitious darkness it's buried in and get educated.
Also, still waiting for your proof of a one true god. Or any god. I'd settle for a really powerful, god-
like super-being. Not allegory, or hyperbole or anecdotes. Testable, verifiable evidence. Got any of that?
O man! You should be aware that there are certain phrases which are commonly used and imply unbelief. The believers also use them, but without realizing their implications. We shall explain three of the most important of them.
The First: "Causes create this."
The Second: "It forms itself; it comes into existence and later ceases to exist." The Third: "It is natural; nature necessitates and creates it."
Indeed, since beings exist and this cannot be denied, and since each being comes into existence in a wise and artistic fashion, and since each is not outside time but is being continuously renewed, then, O falsifier of the truth, you are bound to say either that the causes in the world create beings, for example, this animal; that is to say, it comes into existence through the coming together of causes, or that it forms itself, or that its coming into existence is a requirement and necessary effect of nature, or that it is created through the power of One All-Powerful and All-Glorious. Since reason can find no way apart from these four, if the first three are definitely proved to be impossible, invalid and absurd, the way of divine unity, which is the fourth way, will necessarily and self-evidently and without doubt or suspicion, be proved true.
THE FIRST WAY
This to imagine that the formation and existence of things, creatures, occurs through the coming together of causes in the universe. We shall mention only three of its numerous impossibilities.
First Impossibility
Imagine there is a pharmacy in which are found hundreds of jars and phials filled with quite different substances. A living potion and a living remedy are required from those medicaments. So we go to the pharmacy and see that they are to be found there in abundance, yet in great variet y. We examine each of the potions and see that the ingredients have been taken in varying but precise amounts from each of the jars and phials, one ounce from this, three from that, seven from the next, and so on. If one ounce too much or too little had been taken, the potion would not have been living and would not have displayed its special quality. Next, we study the living remedy. Again, the ingredients have been taken from the jars in a particular measure so that if even the most minute amount too much or too little had been taken, the remedy would have lost its special property.
Now, although the jars number more than fifty, the ingredients have been taken from each according to measures and amounts that are all different. Is it in any way possible or probable that the phials and jars should have been knocked over by a strange coincidence or sudden gust of wind and that only the precise, though different, amounts that had been taken from each of them should have been spilt, and then arranged themselves and come together to form the remedy? Is there anything more superstitious, impossible and absurd than this? If an ass could speak, it would say: "I cannot accept this idea!", and would gallop off!
Quote from: "brq"--The one air atom does the mission of transporting of trillions of radio,wireless,sound signals.Also it makes the transportation of image an heat.So one mindless air atom does trillions of work at the same time while one smart human can not do three or four work at the same time.
This shows that these works are done to air to air atoms by POWERFUL ONE.This is the case since powerless small things can only do big jobs by relying on powerful one.for example:at war, one soldier can captive enemies' general by taking power from his uniform,thus his army,thus his state.in just the same way, one germ can overthrow one elephant by the permission of GOD which we call it ALLAH.
--Another obvious poof that there is God is that unconscious things move like conscious and do conscious actions.For example,the sun does not think that I must enlighten the people to work in day time and disappear to provide them rest.As per one mindless object can not think all of these ,there is ONE POWER thinking all of these and commanding the sun at the same time.
Also you can check out that link .one of my friend's video,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDZNBy8MdFA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDZNBy8MdFA)
and another web site that i came across on the net
http://scienceislam.com/index.php (http://scienceislam.com/index.php)
i'M writing more if you want.
These are not proofs. These are arguments from ignorance.
I shall see your links and raise you three actual science-related links:
http://www.nasa.gov/ (http://www.nasa.gov/)
http://www.talkorigins.org/ (http://www.talkorigins.org/)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:Science (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:Science)
This list, though by no means complete, should keep you occupied for awhile if you're
actually interested in learning about the universe and how it works.
Similarly, each living being may be likened to the living potion in the comparison, and each plant to a living remedy. For they are composed of matter that has been taken in most precise measure from truly numerous and truly various substances. If these are attributed to causes and the elements and it is claimed, "Causes created these," it is unreasonable, impossible and absurd a hundred times over, just as it was to claim that the potion in the pharmacy came into existence through the phials being knocked over; by accident.
I n S h o r t : The vital substances in this vast pharmacy of the universe, which are measured on the scales of divine determining and decree of the All-Wise and Pre- Eternal One, can only come into existence through a boundless wisdom, infinite knowledge and all-encompassing will. The unfortunate person who declares that they are the work of blind, deaf and innumerable elements and causes and natures, which stream like floods; and the foolish, delirious person who claims that that wondrous remedy poured itself out when the phials were knocked over and formed itself, are certainly unreasonable and nonsensical. Indeed, such denial and unbelief is a senseless absurdity.
now , please read carefully.you 'll be convinced and see also http://www.nur.gen.tr/en.html#leftmenu= ... 09+edition (http://www.nur.gen.tr/en.html#leftmenu=Risale&maincontent=Risale&islem=read&KitapId=494&BolumId=8750&KitapAd=The+Flashes+(Revised+2009+edition))&Page=234
Apparently you're just here to preach.
Quote from: "brq"O man! You should be aware that there are certain phrases which are commonly used and imply unbelief. The believers also use them, but without realizing their implications. We shall explain three of the most important of them.
The First: "Causes create this."
The Second: "It forms itself; it comes into existence and later ceases to exist." The Third: "It is natural; nature necessitates and creates it."
Indeed, since beings exist and this cannot be denied, and since each being comes into existence in a wise and artistic fashion, and since each is not outside time but is being continuously renewed, then, O falsifier of the truth, you are bound to say either that the causes in the world create beings, for example, this animal; that is to say, it comes into existence through the coming together of causes, or that it forms itself, or that its coming into existence is a requirement and necessary effect of nature, or that it is created through the power of One All-Powerful and All-Glorious. Since reason can find no way apart from these four, if the first three are definitely proved to be impossible, invalid and absurd, the way of divine unity, which is the fourth way, will necessarily and self-evidently and without doubt or suspicion, be proved true.
THE FIRST WAY
This to imagine that the formation and existence of things, creatures, occurs through the coming together of causes in the universe. We shall mention only three of its numerous impossibilities.
First Impossibility
Imagine there is a pharmacy in which are found hundreds of jars and phials filled with quite different substances. A living potion and a living remedy are required from those medicaments. So we go to the pharmacy and see that they are to be found there in abundance, yet in great variet y. We examine each of the potions and see that the ingredients have been taken in varying but precise amounts from each of the jars and phials, one ounce from this, three from that, seven from the next, and so on. If one ounce too much or too little had been taken, the potion would not have been living and would not have displayed its special quality. Next, we study the living remedy. Again, the ingredients have been taken from the jars in a particular measure so that if even the most minute amount too much or too little had been taken, the remedy would have lost its special property.
Now, although the jars number more than fifty, the ingredients have been taken from each according to measures and amounts that are all different. Is it in any way possible or probable that the phials and jars should have been knocked over by a strange coincidence or sudden gust of wind and that only the precise, though different, amounts that had been taken from each of them should have been spilt, and then arranged themselves and come together to form the remedy? Is there anything more superstitious, impossible and absurd than this? If an ass could speak, it would say: "I cannot accept this idea!", and would gallop off!
I see you're still providing no evidence. Got any? Bullshit we get aplenty around here. Please, no more of that.
Please provide some
evidence of your claims:
One true god
No real happiness without religion.
Quote from: "brq"Similarly, each living being may be likened to the living potion in the comparison, and each plant to a living remedy. For they are composed of matter that has been taken in most precise measure from truly numerous and truly various substances. If these are attributed to causes and the elements and it is claimed, "Causes created these," it is unreasonable, impossible and absurd a hundred times over, just as it was to claim that the potion in the pharmacy came into existence through the phials being knocked over; by accident.
I n S h o r t : The vital substances in this vast pharmacy of the universe, which are measured on the scales of divine determining and decree of the All-Wise and Pre- Eternal One, can only come into existence through a boundless wisdom, infinite knowledge and all-encompassing will. The unfortunate person who declares that they are the work of blind, deaf and innumerable elements and causes and natures, which stream like floods; and the foolish, delirious person who claims that that wondrous remedy poured itself out when the phials were knocked over and formed itself, are certainly unreasonable and nonsensical. Indeed, such denial and unbelief is a senseless absurdity.
now , please read carefully.you 'll be convinced and see also http://www.nur.gen.tr/en.html#leftmenu= ... 09+edition (http://www.nur.gen.tr/en.html#leftmenu=Risale&maincontent=Risale&islem=read&KitapId=494&BolumId=8750&KitapAd=The+Flashes+(Revised+2009+edition))&Page=234
Still no
evidence.
My very dear and loyal brothers!
My brothers, I observed in a subtle point concerning God's unity, which suddenly became clear while studying the page of the air on a journey of the imagination and mind, that is, in the word HE (HU) in the phrases THERE IS NO GOD BUT HE, and, SAY HE IS GOD, (and that was only in its material aspect) that the way of belief is infinitely easy, easy to the point of being necessary, and that the way of misguidance and associating partners with God is infinitely difficult, so difficult as to be impossible. I shall explain that long and extensive point with an extremely brief indication.
Yes, if soil, one handful of which can act as a flower-pot for hundreds of plants in turn, is attributed to nature or causes, it becomes necessary either for there to be present in such a handful hundreds of immaterial machines, indeed, machines and factories to the number of the plants, or for each particle of that small amount of soil to know how to make all those different plants together with their different characteristics and living organs; quite simply, each would have to possess infinite knowledge and limitless power like a god.
The same is true for the air, which is a place of maximum manifestation of the Divine will and command; either there would have to be present on a minute scale in each of its molecules, in each waft of wind, each breath, and in the tiny amount air expended with the word HE, the innumerable different exchanges, centres, receivers and transmitters of all the telephones, telegraphs and radios in the world so that each could perform those innumerable acts at the same time; or else, each particle of each molecule of air exhaled with HE, and indeed of the element air, would have to possess abilities and personalities to the number of all the different telephone users, telegraphers, and those who speak on the radio, and know all their different languages, and broadcast them to the other particles at the same time. For such a situation is actually apparent, and every bit of air possesses that ability. Thus, in the ways of the unbelievers, Naturalists, and Materialists not one impossibility, but impossibilities and difficulties are clearly apparent to the number of molecules of air.
I saw that the World of Similitudes is all the time taking innumerable photographs without confusing them, and that each photograph contains innumerable events occurring in this world. I understood that it was a gigantic camera, and a vast cinema of the hereafter thousands of times larger than the world for showing in eternal theatres the fruits of the transitory and impermanent states and lives of ephemeral beings, for showing to those enjoying everlasting bliss in Paradise scenes from their old memories and adventures in this world.1
While the faculties of memory and imagination, which are two proofs, two small examples, and two points of both the Preserved Tablet and the World of Similitudes situated in man's head, are as tiny as lentils, within them are written in perfect order and without being mixed up as much information as may be contained in a large library. This proves decisively that large examples of those faculties are the World of Similitudes and the Preserved Tablet.
It is definite and certain with 'knowledge of certainty' that the elements of air and water, and the element air and water like seminal fluid in particular, are far superior to the element of earth, and are written with more wisdom and will, and with the pen of Divine Determining and Power, and that it is completely impossible for chance, blind force, deaf nature, and lifeless and aimless causes to interfere in them, and that they are a page of the pen of Power and the wisdom of the All-Wise One of Glory.
Quote from: "brq"I saw that the World of Similitudes is all the time taking innumerable photographs without confusing them, and that each photograph contains innumerable events occurring in this world. I understood that it was a gigantic camera, and a vast cinema of the hereafter thousands of times larger than the world for showing in eternal theatres the fruits of the transitory and impermanent states and lives of ephemeral beings, for showing to those enjoying everlasting bliss in Paradise scenes from their old memories and adventures in this world.1
While the faculties of memory and imagination, which are two proofs, two small examples, and two points of both the Preserved Tablet and the World of Similitudes situated in man's head, are as tiny as lentils, within them are written in perfect order and without being mixed up as much information as may be contained in a large library. This proves decisively that large examples of those faculties are the World of Similitudes and the Preserved Tablet.
It is definite and certain with 'knowledge of certainty' that the elements of air and water, and the element air and water like seminal fluid in particular, are far superior to the element of earth, and are written with more wisdom and will, and with the pen of Divine Determining and Power, and that it is completely impossible for chance, blind force, deaf nature, and lifeless and aimless causes to interfere in them, and that they are a page of the pen of Power and the wisdom of the All-Wise One of Glory.
Proselytizing and spam. You're only hear to preach your ignorance to people far more educated than you ever wish to become. Good luck with that. Hope you have fun, until the mods shut you down.
Evidence or shut the fuck up!
you don't need to be angry,read slowly and think about them,you'll understand,be relax,we just compare our ideas in a polite way
LOOK,you get egg from chick,milk from cow right.
now we look does chick has wisdom ,will or compassion to us? the answer is no.
then there is ONE having will,wisdom and compassion to you give this egg by showing this chick as a curtain.
--When we look,the camel's knees are callous so that it does not affected by the hot ground when it kneels down.
the camel's nose is designed not affected by the sandstorms.
the camel's foot are webbed so that it does not sink to the sand of desert.
Now we look,in that place,there would be horse ,zebra or the other kind of animal if there is ONE who choose and create according to desert conditions.
--One thing does exist or does not exist.So, possibility of existing one thing is 50 percent.But the possibility does not cause one thing to exist.Seeing that a lot of things do exist,then one power cause them to exist.
All that I write are obvious evidences for whom who want to believe and understand..
--?f one ignores the sun,then he must ignore the daylight.Since the daylight comes from the sun.In the same way,if one is not to accept GIVER OF LIFE then he must ignore all the living thins from very small bacteria to trees having life.
--if we don't accept the sun,we must accept one sun in the every shining blob of the sea.In just the same way,if we don't accept one God,then we must consider all the mote as God.Since every mote,every atom,is moving like knowing every relationships among another things.For example,one air atom enters human body and mingles with blood,on the other hand ,it also provides pollination of plants.In this situation,we must say that air atom is God like particle which take into consideration of that many conveniences but we can't say because the air atom is mindless.Then we must,of course,say the air atom is just the worker of one GOD overseeing conveniences that the air atom causes.
--LET's have a look at another example,we are throwing nearly same seeds to soil(orange,apple,mandarine,lemon seeds etc)Now we must suppose three situation.
1.there are unlimited machines that leads to grow tree according to seeds in the soil.However,there are none.
2.every single soil atom have an ability to detect the seeds and grow accordingly.However,this is also false since one soil atom is mindless ,unconscious,lifeless and powerless.so ,can't do that.
SO there left one,that is,there is only one GOD having knowledge,life and power that create all kind of trees.
--One obvious proof that there is God is that one cloud does not think that plants,animals and humans on the earth,and does not want to clean up the ground.Normally,as per cloud can't pity and help the living things and does not have compassion,rain is poured by another person having compassion,which we call it ALLAH.
---For an apple to exist,spring must come,
for a spring to come,day&night must follow each other,
for a day&night to exist,world & sun must spin,
SO, it's creator of the sun and stars is the creator of the apple....
--Think of the sun and the fly,
The sun is big and basic
The fly is small and complex
The one who create a big thing as sun can create small thing as fly
The one who create a complex thing as fly can create basic thing as sun...""ONE"" GOD
---When we look small nuts stand on tree
but big watermelon grows on the ground.
If the watermelon would be on tree,it would break someone's head when it falls.So,there is ONE that consider conviniences and fix that nut tu there.
As per one nut tree can not have this compassion in order not to hurt people ,there is COMPASSIONATE ONE who thinks this.
---IF WE LOOK AT THE GRAPE TREE AND IT'S LEAVES WE SEE THAT GRAPES AND LEAVES ARE GREEN BUT WOOD IS NOT,GRAPE IS JUICY BUT THE WOOD IS NOT.KILOGRAMS OF GREEN COLOR,SUGAR AND WATER ARE NEEDED FOR GRAPE AND LEAVES BUT WE SEE THAT WOOD DOES NOT HAVE THEM.ALSO,GRAPE'S TASTE SATISFIES MY TONGUE,GRAPE'S OUTLOOK SATISFIES MY EYES,GRAPE'S SMELL SATISFIES MY NOSE.AS PER ONE DRY LIFELESS WOOD CAN NOT KNOW THAT I LIKE GRAPE THAN GRAPE IS GIVEN TO ME BY SOMEONE WHO KNOWS THAT I LIKE GRAPES.THINK ALL OF THE FRUIT AND VEGETABLES......
-----EVEN ONE SENSOR CAN NOT EXIST WITHOUT DOER HOW COULD SENSORS LIKE NOSE AND EARS THAT DEFINE ALL THE SMELLS AND SOUND CAN EXIST WITHOUT A CREATOR.......
----EVEN ONE SCULPTURE CAN NOT EXIST WITHOUT SCULPTOR HOW COULD TRILLIONS OF ALIVE SCULPTURES(PLANTS-ANIMALS-HUMANS) CAN EXIST WITHOUT ALLAH????
----EVEN ONE CAST ROSE CAN 'T EXIST WITHOUT DOER HOW COULD ORIGINAL ROSES CAN EXIST WITHOUT A CREATOR..???
HOW CAN I SAY OBVIOUS EVIDENCES THAN THOSE THINGS? PEOPLE WHO THINK REASONABLY WILL FIND THE TRUE PATH...
---THERE IS NO GOD BUT ALLAH AND MUHAMMED(PEACE BE UPON HIM) IS THE MESSENGER OF ALLAH----
Quote from: "brq"you don't need to be angry,read slowly and think about them,you'll understand,be relax,we just compare our ideas in a polite way
LOOK,you get egg from chick,milk from cow right.
now we look does chick has wisdom ,will or compassion to us? the answer is no.
then there is ONE having will,wisdom and compassion to you give this egg by showing this chick as a curtain.
--When we look,the camel's knees are callous so that it does not affected by the hot ground when it kneels down.
the camel's nose is designed not affected by the sandstorms.
the camel's foot are webbed so that it does not sink to the sand of desert.
Now we look,in that place,there would be horse ,zebra or the other kind of animal if there is ONE who choose and create according to desert conditions.
--One thing does exist or does not exist.So, possibility of existing one thing is 50 percent.But the possibility does not cause one thing to exist.Seeing that a lot of things do exist,then one power cause them to exist.
Angry? :rollin: Are you serious?
Still no
evidence. You gonna provide any or are you just gonna preach. Seriously. If all you're gonna do is preach, I've heard enough of your bullshit. If you're going to provide
evidence, not allegory, not hyperbole, not anecdotes and certainly not quotes from your favorite book of myths I'll listen.
Again,
evidence or shut the fuck up!
Oh shitballs! This kid just converted me! Camels and their knees; chicks and curtains! I bet air was made so that our lungs could have a job. It all makes sense now! Hail Vishnu!
Galactic, why do religious come here. Seriously? Have you ever read that STUPID BIBLE? A virgin got pregnant...need I say more dumbass. Sorry mods. Not sorry to the dumbass invaders.
brq: Okay, let's compare our ideas in a civil fashion. I'll try to use small words, since English doesn't seem to be your first language.
Chickens lay so many eggs because our ancestors domesticated the ancestors of chickens. These ancient people valued the birds that laid more eggs for them to eat, so they made sure that the best egg-layers were the only ones to breed. The children of those egg-layers tended to also be good at laying eggs, because they inherited the genes that made their parents good at laying eggs.
The ancient people then chose the best egg-layers from among those children, and bred them together. This process continued year after year. Each generation laid more eggs than the last. This is why no wild birds lay as many eggs as chickens do- because prolific egg-laying is a trait that evolved after chickens were domesticated, and because they were domesticated.
Our ancestors did the same thing with cows (breeding them to make more milk), fruits (breeding them to make more and bigger fruit), and sheep (breeding them to grow more fur). That is why wild strawberries are smaller and less sweet than farm strawberries: because each year, we choose only the biggest and sweetest to plant again the next year.
Camels are good at surviving in the desert because each generation, the camels that were better at surviving had more children. The children inherited the traits that made their parents successful. Later, the best survivors among the children had more children themselves, passing down the genes for more webbed feet and more closed nostrils. Decade after decade, these animals became better and better at surviving, and more and more like the camels we know today.
If you still don't understand, I recommend that you get The Greatest Show on Earth by Richard Dawkins from your local library, or The Origin of Species by Charles Darwin. They do a better job of explaining it than me.
Quote from: "fingerscrossed2013"Galactic, why do religious come here. Seriously? Have you ever read that STUPID BIBLE? A virgin got pregnant...need I say more dumbass. Sorry mods. Not sorry to the dumbass invaders.
I really don't understand why they come here. I get that they feel obligated to spread the "good word" and all that, but to come to a place that is by design filled with the type of people they have no hope of converting... Beats me.
Quote from: "brq"you don't need to be angry,read slowly and think about them,you'll understand,be relax,we just compare our ideas in a polite way
I will consider what you have to say if you'll agree to stop slaughtering the grammar structures of the English language. Until then, kindly fuck off.
So, did screwloose actually leave or is it just one of the many times each day that he has to go grovel in front of his angry desert god?
NO YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND PLEASE READ THEM carefully,please..
also ? accept that english is not my language sorry about that,and also I'M muSl?m.
Consider upbringing of one apple.First,apple seed needs water and mineral from the soil when we sow the seeds.Water that the seed needs come to soil from unconscious clouds riding on mindless wind.
And after seed's body appear on the ground it needs sunlight to grow up,and finally tree's branch bends itself to extend its fruit like making service to human.You see that,for an apple to grow clouds,winds,soil and sun,thus spinning of earth and sun to come across that tree's enlighten position are needed.we can also say that every element from from soil to cloud helps each pther like knowing each other although they are lifeless objects.And also ,we see this helping activity in the universe very apparently .Elements run to help plants,plants help animals,animals help ,finally, the humans.Therefore,as per these lifeless thing don't know the others' need,they don't help each other,possibly,there is ONE that employ all of these as worker and know the all needs of these workers and runs them their help of each other.
--- when we look ,long poplar has no product
short apple tree has product.So there is ONE that fix that product to that short tree in order for people to reach it.
I'M sorry I'm not good at english I couldn't explain my thoughts well but, you can search from "Risale i Nur Collection,Said Nursi",which is very-well explained, and if you read again objectively (not taking into consideration thoughts of Richard Dawkins)
you'llsee the TRUTH...
please see also 33 ways of proving existence of God
http://www.nur.gen.tr/en.html#leftmenu= ... =The+Words (http://www.nur.gen.tr/en.html#leftmenu=Risale&maincontent=Risale&islem=read&BolumId=8562&KitapId=456&KitapAd=The+Words)
see also for scientists consisting on ignoring God and those saying there is no GOd are wrong
http://www.nur.gen.tr/en.html#leftmenu= ... s&Page=141 (http://www.nur.gen.tr/en.html#leftmenu=Risale&maincontent=Risale&islem=read&KitapId=22&BolumId=826&KitapAd=The+Rays&Page=141)
safety and peace of ALLAH be upon you..
Quote from: "brq"Religion is not prerequiste for fake happiness,but for real happinness it's must
A drunk man is happier than a sober man, but that's NOT a good reason to always be drunk.
Happiness alone shouldn't be the deciding factor.
When you add evidence and rationality, there's really no reason other than stupidity to be religious, and rational people don't
choose to be stupid.
Quote from: "brq"There can't be two manager in the school,there can't be two reeve in one village.if they would be then there would be chaos.Seeing that there is excellent harmony in the universe WITHOUT HUMAN's DISTURBING EFFECTS
You're talking about the universe in which we would die in an instant anywhere but on one insignificant planet of one not notable stellar system located in one small galaxy (that's going to be destroyed in 4-5 billion years when it crashes into a much larger galaxy).
Some thoughtful creation. A god that created that universe JUST FOR US would have to be crazy.
Quote from: "brq"NO YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND PLEASE READ THEM carefully,please..
also ? accept that english is not my language sorry about that,and also I'M muSl?m.
Consider upbringing of one apple.First,apple seed needs water and mineral from the soil when we sow the seeds.Water that the seed needs come to soil from unconscious clouds riding on mindless wind.
And after seed's body appear on the ground it needs sunlight to grow up,and finally tree's branch bends itself to extend its fruit like making service to human.You see that,for an apple to grow clouds,winds,soil and sun,thus spinning of earth and sun to come across that tree's enlighten position are needed.we can also say that every element from from soil to cloud helps each pther like knowing each other although they are lifeless objects.And also ,we see this helping activity in the universe very apparently .Elements run to help plants,plants help animals,animals help ,finally, the humans.Therefore,as per these lifeless thing don't know the others' need,they don't help each other,possibly,there is ONE that employ all of these as worker and know the all needs of these workers and runs them their help of each other.
--- when we look ,long poplar has no product
short apple tree has product.So there is ONE that fix that product to that short tree in order for people to reach it.
I'M sorry I'm not good at english I couldn't explain my thoughts well but, you can search from "Risale i Nur Collection,Said Nursi",which is very-well explained, and if you read again objectively (not taking into consideration thoughts of Richard Dawkins)
you'llsee the TRUTH...
IF I you're right ? DON'T lose anyth?ng by believing ALLAH but ?'m right you'll go infinite hell.
please see also 33 ways of proving God
http://www.nur.gen.tr/en.html#leftmenu= ... =The+Words (http://www.nur.gen.tr/en.html#leftmenu=Risale&maincontent=Risale&islem=read&BolumId=8562&KitapId=456&KitapAd=The+Words)
see also for scientists consisting on ignoring God and those saying there is no GOd are wrong
http://www.nur.gen.tr/en.html#leftmenu= ... s&Page=141 (http://www.nur.gen.tr/en.html#leftmenu=Risale&maincontent=Risale&islem=read&KitapId=22&BolumId=826&KitapAd=The+Rays&Page=141)
safety and peace of ALLAH be upon you..
I would rather spend an eternity in hell than an eternity in heaven with religious people, that's how bad you are to the rest of us (me at least).
Maybe I couldn't explain my ideas but you can reach detailed information from related links.
these are the proof of conditions of faith
if you're convinced it's enough to say
ESHEDU EN LA ILAHE ILLA ALLAH ESHEDU ENNE MUHAMMEDEN(sallallahu aleyhi ve sellem) ABDUHU VE RASULUHU
I bear witness that there is no god but Allah, and I bear witness that Muhammad (pbuh) is the servant and Messenger of Allah
see about ALLAH
http://www.nur.gen.tr/en.html#leftmenu= (http://www.nur.gen.tr/en.html#leftmenu=) ... =The+Words
http://www.nur.gen.tr/en.html#leftmenu= (http://www.nur.gen.tr/en.html#leftmenu=) ... s&Page=141
---see also about our prophet MUHAMMED(SAV)
http://www.nur.gen.tr/en.html#leftmenu= ... =The+Words (http://www.nur.gen.tr/en.html#leftmenu=Risale&maincontent=Risale&islem=read&BolumId=8512&KitapId=456&KitapAd=The+Words)
---About angles and soul
http://www.nur.gen.tr/en.html#leftmenu= ... =the+words (http://www.nur.gen.tr/en.html#leftmenu=Risale&maincontent=Risale&islem=read&bolumid=8546&kitapid=456&kitapad=the+words)
---about resurrection and hereafter
http://www.nur.gen.tr/en.html#leftmenu= ... =The+Words (http://www.nur.gen.tr/en.html#leftmenu=Risale&maincontent=Risale&islem=read&BolumId=8486&KitapId=456&KitapAd=The+Words)
---about fate & destiny
http://www.nur.gen.tr/en.html#leftmenu= ... =the+words (http://www.nur.gen.tr/en.html#leftmenu=Risale&maincontent=Risale&islem=read&bolumid=8538&kitapid=456&kitapad=the+words)
----about our book KORAN
http://www.nur.gen.tr/en.html#leftmenu= ... =The+Words (http://www.nur.gen.tr/en.html#leftmenu=Risale&maincontent=Risale&islem=read&BolumId=8527&KitapId=456&KitapAd=The+Words)
This one is spamtastic, literally just flinging feces into our clean(ish) forum.
two words. PREGNANT VIRGIN. Did Gabe stick one in her, or God? Bc they claimed she was a virgin. Stupid ho fkd someone.
I bet you speak in tounges at church don't u?
I would rather spend an eternity in hell than an eternity in heaven with religious people, that's how bad you are to the rest of us (me at least).[/quote]
I'm sorry I didn't want behave like enemy of you.I delete the "hell sentence".We are all humans .If we meet maybe we get on well where do you know ,please don't be prejudice .
Quote from: "brq"I bear witness that there is no god but Allah, and I bear witness that Muhammad (pbuh) is the servant and Messenger of Allah
see about ALLAH
You think that we are unbelievers because we know little about your religion. The truth is the opposite: we are unbelievers because we know much about your religion, its falsehoods and hypocrisies, and the damage it has caused.
If you would teach us, teach us something we do not already know.
Quote from: "brq"Consider upbringing of one apple.
Life isn't an apple - that's a very childish analogy.
QuoteYou see that,for an apple to grow clouds,winds,soil and sun,thus spinning of earth and sun to come across that tree's enlighten position are needed.we can also say that every element from from soil to cloud helps each pther
Like blights, rusts and viruses that all try to kill the tree that the apple grows on?
QuoteAnd also ,we see this helping activity in the universe very apparently .Elements run to help plants,plants help animals,animals help ,finally, the humans.
Elements like arsenic?
QuoteTherefore,as per these lifeless thing don't know the others' need,they don't help each other
No, because apples EVOLVED to grow on a world with these elements. You're telling us that the hole in the ground is shaped perfectly to fit the puddle that's in it.
Religion ALWAYS looks at this situation backwards. The world wasn't designed for the life that was to come, life evolved to fit the world it evolved on.
Quote--- when we look ,long poplar has no product
short apple tree has product.So there is ONE that fix that product to that short tree in order for people to reach it.
1) The poplar has a product we use - wood
2) The height of a tree is determined by the type of land it normally grows in. Trees are tall to get maximum sunlight. If there were any intelligence behind it, no tree would grow more than a few inches off the ground, so it wouldn't waste all that effort getting taller, when all it really needs is sunlight shining on its leaves.
The height of trees is a strong argument AGAINST a creator.
QuoteI'M sorry I'm not good at english I couldn't explain my thoughts well
You're explaining them well enough for us to know that you're not very well informed about reality (religious assertions usually have very little to do with reality, like your assertion about the heights of trees), and you express them well enough for us to know that you're either a child, or a not very intelligent adult.
Quoteand if you read again objectively (not taking into consideration thoughts of Richard Dawkins) you'llsee the TRUTH...
Why not Dawkins? He's one of the more knowledgeable people on the subject. (Agreement with holy books and being right have nothing to do with one another - except that almost all holy books are wrong about almost everything.)
QuoteIF I you're right ? DON'T lose anyth?ng by believing ALLAH but ?'m right you'll go infinite hell.
That's called Pascal's Wager, and it fails on a few grounds:
1) If there is a god, but he hates Muslims, you spend eternity in hell just for being a Muslim.
2) If there is no god, you've wasted a large part of your life praying, not doing things your religion forbids, doing things your religion requires, etc.
You see, that attitude, yours and Pascal's, assumes that the only possibilities are your god and no god. The fact that Pascal was talking about Yahweh and you're talking about Allah (and no, they're NOT the same god) gives you a problem right from the start. If the real god is Yahweh, you go to hell because you're a non-believer.
Again, a very childish, not-well-thought-out, viewpoint of reality.
Quoteplease see also 33 ways of proving God
http://www.nur.gen.tr/en.html#leftmenu= ... =The+Words (http://www.nur.gen.tr/en.html#leftmenu=Risale&maincontent=Risale&islem=read&BolumId=8562&KitapId=456&KitapAd=The+Words)
Nothing there that's even evidence of any god, let alone any proof.
Quotesee also for scientists consisting on ignoring God and those saying there is no GOd are wrong
http://www.nur.gen.tr/en.html#leftmenu= ... s&Page=141 (http://www.nur.gen.tr/en.html#leftmenu=Risale&maincontent=Risale&islem=read&KitapId=22&BolumId=826&KitapAd=The+Rays&Page=141)
Assertions by some unnamed author (that's all the site is) aren't evidence of anything. You believe. That's nice, but it's not a reason for rational adults to believe. When you grow up (if you ever do) post some rational evidence of any god and we'll analyze it. But no one is going to waste time telling you, point by point, why some irrational nonsense is irrational nonsense.
Quote from: "brq"I'm sorry I didn't want behave like enemy of you.I delete the "hell sentence".We are all humans .If we meet maybe we get on well where do you know ,please don't be prejudice .
If your actually religious you still think I'm going to hell so you saying it and taking it back doesn't change the fact you still think it. We are all human but you think some of us are less than human. Religion does not teach tolerance or equality so why should you feel bad for saying what you think? It's actually worse when you pretend to think that were equal as you're insulting our intelligence.
Quote from: "brq"--Another obvious poof that there is God is that unconscious things move like conscious and do conscious actions.For example,the sun does not think that I must enlighten the people to work in day time and disappear to provide them rest.As per one mindless object can not think all of these ,there is ONE POWER thinking all of these and commanding the sun at the same time.
Again - we evolved on a world that has alternating light and dark (it's almost impossible for life to evolve on a world that always turns one face to its star) so we need alternating light and dark. We evolved to fit the world, primitive minds that couldn't understand that invented a god that made the world be what we needed. The fact that they god it backwards doesn't mean that people living in the 21st century should refuse to learn reality - and intelligent people don't, they learn that we evolved to fit the world.
The links that you keep posting are irrational nonsense. Look at real science sites if you want real explanations.
Quote from: "brq"Maybe I couldn't explain my ideas but you can reach detailed information from related links.
these are the proof of conditions of faith
if you're convinced it's enough to say
ESHEDU EN LA ILAHE ILLA ALLAH ESHEDU ENNE MUHAMMEDEN(sallallahu aleyhi ve sellem) ABDUHU VE RASULUHU
I bear witness that there is no god but Allah, and I bear witness that Muhammad (pbuh) is the servant and Messenger of Allah
see about ALLAH
http://www.nur.gen.tr/en.html#leftmenu= (http://www.nur.gen.tr/en.html#leftmenu=) ... =The+Words
http://www.nur.gen.tr/en.html#leftmenu= (http://www.nur.gen.tr/en.html#leftmenu=) ... s&Page=141
---see also about our prophet MUHAMMED(SAV)
http://www.nur.gen.tr/en.html#leftmenu= ... =The+Words (http://www.nur.gen.tr/en.html#leftmenu=Risale&maincontent=Risale&islem=read&BolumId=8512&KitapId=456&KitapAd=The+Words)
---About angles and soul
http://www.nur.gen.tr/en.html#leftmenu= ... =the+words (http://www.nur.gen.tr/en.html#leftmenu=Risale&maincontent=Risale&islem=read&bolumid=8546&kitapid=456&kitapad=the+words)
---about resurrection and hereafter
http://www.nur.gen.tr/en.html#leftmenu= ... =The+Words (http://www.nur.gen.tr/en.html#leftmenu=Risale&maincontent=Risale&islem=read&BolumId=8486&KitapId=456&KitapAd=The+Words)
---about fate & destiny
http://www.nur.gen.tr/en.html#leftmenu= ... =the+words (http://www.nur.gen.tr/en.html#leftmenu=Risale&maincontent=Risale&islem=read&bolumid=8538&kitapid=456&kitapad=the+words)
----about our book KORAN
http://www.nur.gen.tr/en.html#leftmenu= ... =The+Words (http://www.nur.gen.tr/en.html#leftmenu=Risale&maincontent=Risale&islem=read&BolumId=8527&KitapId=456&KitapAd=The+Words)
Quote from: "Hijiri Byakuren"I shall see your links and raise you three actual science-related links:
http://www.nasa.gov/ (http://www.nasa.gov/)
http://www.talkorigins.org/ (http://www.talkorigins.org/)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:Science (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:Science)
This list, though by no means complete, should keep you occupied for awhile if you're actually interested in learning about the universe and how it works.
Quote from: "brq"O man! You should be aware that there are certain phrases which are commonly used and imply unbelief. The believers also use them, but without realizing their implications. We shall explain three of the most important of them.
The First: "Causes create this."
The Second: "It forms itself; it comes into existence and later ceases to exist." The Third: "It is natural; nature necessitates and creates it."
Posting religious nonsense is called proselytizing, and it's one of the fastest ways to get banned here. (Posting it without attribution is even worse, it's plagiarism.)
Post your own words. Post links to sites. Don't post religious nonsense.
---IF WE LOOK AT THE GRAPE TREE AND IT'S LEAVES WE SEE THAT GRAPES AND LEAVES ARE GREEN BUT WOOD IS NOT,GRAPE IS JUICY BUT THE WOOD IS NOT.KILOGRAMS OF GREEN COLOR,SUGAR AND WATER ARE NEEDED FOR GRAPE AND LEAVES BUT WE SEE THAT WOOD DOES NOT HAVE THEM.ALSO,GRAPE'S TASTE SATISFIES MY TONGUE,GRAPE'S OUTLOOK SATISFIES MY EYES,GRAPE'S SMELL SATISFIES MY NOSE.AS PER ONE DRY LIFELESS WOOD CAN NOT KNOW THAT I LIKE GRAPE THAN GRAPE IS GIVEN TO ME BY SOMEONE WHO KNOWS THAT I LIKE GRAPES.THINK ALL OF THE FRUIT AND VEGETABLES......
-----EVEN ONE SENSOR CAN NOT EXIST WITHOUT DOER HOW COULD SENSORS LIKE NOSE AND EARS THAT DEFINE ALL THE SMELLS AND SOUND CAN EXIST WITHOUT A CREATOR.......
----EVEN ONE SCULPTURE CAN NOT EXIST WITHOUT SCULPTOR HOW COULD TRILLIONS OF ALIVE SCULPTURES(PLANTS-ANIMALS-HUMANS) CAN EXIST WITHOUT ALLAH????
----EVEN ONE CAST ROSE CAN 'T EXIST WITHOUT DOER HOW COULD ORIGINAL ROSES CAN EXIST WITHOUT A CREATOR..???
HOW CAN I SAY OBVIOUS EVIDENCES THAN THOSE THINGS? PEOPLE WHO THINK REASONABLY WILL FIND THE TRUE PATH...
---THERE IS NO GOD BUT ALLAH AND MUHAMMED(PEACE BE UPON HIM) IS THE MESSENGER OF ALLAH----[/quote]
so what do you say about these?
I need to go
see next time
He doesn't get it, at all.
Quote from: "Icarus"He doesn't get it, at all.
no you don't .I swear...
Quote from: "brq"you don't need to be angry,read slowly and think about them
Why? What you did is not allowed here. That's all we need to think about.
Quote--When we look,the camel's knees are callous so that it does not affected by the hot ground when it kneels down.
Because if it didn't have calloused knees, like the horse that evolved from the same ancestor, it would be living on grassy plains, not the desert.
Quotethe camel's nose is designed not affected by the sandstorms.
Because it evolved in deserts.
Quotethe camel's foot are webbed so that it does not sink to the sand of desert.
Because it evolved in deserts.
QuoteNow we look,in that place,there would be horse ,zebra or the other kind of animal if there is ONE who choose and create according to desert conditions.
Because they evolved on grasslands.
Quote--One thing does exist or does not exist.So, possibility of existing one thing is 50 percent.
So it's just as likely for a flying camel to exist as it is for none to exist? Sorry, but that's nonsense. Unlikely things aren't just as likely as likely things. It's not as likely for a purple thing that's green to exist as it is for a purple thing that's purple to exist.
QuoteBut the possibility does not cause one thing to exist.Seeing that a lot of things do exist,then one power cause them to exist.
Seeing things that fit the environment in which they evolved leads one to think that they evolved to fit their environment. It doesn't take a creator for a camel with tougher knees to do better in the desert than one with less tough knees.
Quote from: "brq"All that I write are obvious evidences for whom who want to believe and understand..
Evidence is something that exists whether you believe or not. What you post is nonsense unless you believe. Learn the difference.
The fact that something exists is not evidence that a creator created it, unless you already believe it to be so.
Quote from: "brq"no you don't .I swear...
We do... which is why it's so sad to see someone so brainwashed.
Quote from: "brq"NO YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND PLEASE READ THEM carefully,please..
also ? accept that english is not my language sorry about that,and also I'M muSl?m.
Consider upbringing of one apple.First,apple seed needs water and mineral from the soil when we sow the seeds.Water that the seed needs come to soil from unconscious clouds riding on mindless wind.
Repeating nonsense doesn't make it right. We read the post the first time you posted it. You were wrong then and you're wrong now.
If all you want to do is proselytize, you won't be welcome here, and you WILL BE banned. If you want to discuss things in a RATIONAL manner, start doing so.
You are a brainwashed idiot, but you will at least serve as an entertaining chew toy for me.
Quote from: "brq"---IF WE LOOK AT THE GRAPE TREE AND IT'S LEAVES WE SEE THAT GRAPES AND LEAVES ARE GREEN BUT WOOD IS NOT,GRAPE IS JUICY BUT THE WOOD IS NOT.KILOGRAMS OF GREEN COLOR,SUGAR AND WATER ARE NEEDED FOR GRAPE AND LEAVES BUT WE SEE THAT WOOD DOES NOT HAVE THEM.ALSO,GRAPE'S TASTE SATISFIES MY TONGUE,GRAPE'S OUTLOOK SATISFIES MY EYES,GRAPE'S SMELL SATISFIES MY NOSE.AS PER ONE DRY LIFELESS WOOD CAN NOT KNOW THAT I LIKE GRAPE THAN GRAPE IS GIVEN TO ME BY SOMEONE WHO KNOWS THAT I LIKE GRAPES.THINK ALL OF THE FRUIT AND VEGETABLES......
Grapes do not grow on trees, friend. Also, they evolved into their present form so that animals would eat them, and spread their seeds during the process of excretion. It's a method of reproduction many other fruit-bearing species adopted.
Quote from: "brq"-----EVEN ONE SENSOR CAN NOT EXIST WITHOUT DOER HOW COULD SENSORS LIKE NOSE AND EARS THAT DEFINE ALL THE SMELLS AND SOUND CAN EXIST WITHOUT A CREATOR.......
Simple: sensory systems evolved over time, and arrived at their present form later. Yes, their present form is fairly co-dependent, but that doesn't mean earlier forms had to be. Given the abundance of life that does not possess every sensory interface that we do, one would think this should be obvious.
Quote from: "brq"----EVEN ONE SCULPTURE CAN NOT EXIST WITHOUT SCULPTOR HOW COULD TRILLIONS OF ALIVE SCULPTURES(PLANTS-ANIMALS-HUMANS) CAN EXIST WITHOUT ALLAH????
Evolution. Before that, abiogenesis. Before that, planetary formation. Before that, thermonuclear fusion within one or more stars. And on and on and on...
Quote from: "brq"----EVEN ONE CAST ROSE CAN 'T EXIST WITHOUT DOER HOW COULD ORIGINAL ROSES CAN EXIST WITHOUT A CREATOR..???
Because roses, like all other life forms on Earth, evolved in groups. Individuals do not evolve. Honestly, did you not take one highschool science class in school? (Granted, implying you've graduated may be assigning too much credit.)
Quote from: "brq"HOW CAN I SAY OBVIOUS EVIDENCES THAN THOSE THINGS? PEOPLE WHO THINK REASONABLY WILL FIND THE TRUE PATH...
There is little more obvious than the fact that everything you've listed is easily explained by natural processes, none of which require a creator.
Quote from: "brq"---THERE IS NO GOD BUT ALLAH AND MUHAMMED(PEACE BE UPON HIM) IS THE MESSENGER OF ALLAH----
You are just another fool who thinks he knows everything. Come back when you've gained an education.
Quote from: "brq"---IF WE LOOK AT THE GRAPE TREE AND IT'S LEAVES WE SEE THAT GRAPES AND LEAVES ARE GREEN BUT WOOD IS NOT
Because wood has no chloroplasts, because it isn't the part of the plant that creates food for the plant. It's the same reason you don't have digestive juices in your toes.
Please stop trying to use biology to teach us - you don't know anything about it.
Well, yet another religious nutjob that is more interested in myths and fables than reality. Color me un-surprised, especially since he's a worshiper of an angry desert god that "chose" a pedophile as his prophet. Myths and fables are all that could possibly make that cult palatable, if anything could.
Quote" how much hardships I confront here is nothing I will go a place that is trillions time better than that world"
Why would I go to a place trillions of times better when I could go to a place...
BILLIONS of times better?
[youtube:8nukvga3]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vohNUTTx3A[/youtube:8nukvga3]
Quote from: "brq"My very dear and loyal brothers!
My brothers, I observed in a subtle point concerning God's unity, which suddenly became clear while studying the page of the air on a journey of the imagination and mind, that is, in the word HE (HU) in the phrases THERE IS NO GOD BUT HE, and, SAY HE IS GOD, (and that was only in its material aspect) that the way of belief is infinitely easy, easy to the point of being necessary, and that the way of misguidance and associating partners with God is infinitely difficult, so difficult as to be impossible.
It's so easy to join...
Serious question, though: does this technique actually work? Cause it's basically gibberish with a warm (but far too familiar) salutation.
My dear and loyal brothers and sisters!
I have uncovered a grand secret of the universe while licking blue on a bike ride through space! Pi is friendless and alone. Green radishes flow freely into the arms of the WORTHY. If I walk down a street, is not the street walking with ME?
INSHALLA ADUN
Hydra009: I suggest that you look into the Invisible Pink Unicorn (//http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_Pink_Unicorn). She may be able to grant you the wisdom that you seek. :wink:
I find this new preponderance of pony avatars disturbing.
Quote from: "Hijiri Byakuren"I find this new preponderance of pony avatars disturbing.
Join us in friendship. Foreeevvvver. :)
i think Religion is too big an umbrella to hate it. it'd be like hating Government , you can hate certain governments, elements of most governments , but hating the concept completely is difficult.
That brq fellow turned out to be about as I expected. Lots of screaming and zero actual interaction or knowledge.
Quote from: "brq"My very dear and loyal brothers!
My brothers, I observed in a subtle point concerning God's unity, which suddenly became clear while studying the page of the air on a journey of the imagination and mind, that is, in the word HE (HU) in the phrases THERE IS NO GOD BUT HE, and, SAY HE IS GOD, (and that was only in its material aspect) that the way of belief is infinitely easy, easy to the point of being necessary, and that the way of misguidance and associating partners with God is infinitely difficult, so difficult as to be impossible. I shall explain that long and extensive point with an extremely brief indication.
Yes, if soil, one handful of which can act as a flower-pot for hundreds of plants in turn, is attributed to nature or causes, it becomes necessary either for there to be present in such a handful hundreds of immaterial machines, indeed, machines and factories to the number of the plants, or for each particle of that small amount of soil to know how to make all those different plants together with their different characteristics and living organs; quite simply, each would have to possess infinite knowledge and limitless power like a god.
The same is true for the air, which is a place of maximum manifestation of the Divine will and command; either there would have to be present on a minute scale in each of its molecules, in each waft of wind, each breath, and in the tiny amount air expended with the word HE, the innumerable different exchanges, centres, receivers and transmitters of all the telephones, telegraphs and radios in the world so that each could perform those innumerable acts at the same time; or else, each particle of each molecule of air exhaled with HE, and indeed of the element air, would have to possess abilities and personalities to the number of all the different telephone users, telegraphers, and those who speak on the radio, and know all their different languages, and broadcast them to the other particles at the same time. For such a situation is actually apparent, and every bit of air possesses that ability. Thus, in the ways of the unbelievers, Naturalists, and Materialists not one impossibility, but impossibilities and difficulties are clearly apparent to the number of molecules of air.
The great Mustafa Kemal would be turning in his grave if he could see how some of his fellow Turks have gone backwards...
Oh, by the way: I'm not your fucking brother and Islam is a myth created by a pedophile caravan robber. Now piss off.
Quote from: "GalacticBusDriver"especially since he's a worshiper of an angry desert god that "chose" a pedophile as his prophet.
Your insults can not even pass by my prophet.
The case is not what you suppose.He did marry only one that is young.And this was not like as you perceive.He made a mariage agreement with her earlier.(you say this one) and married when she is at nearly 20s.Also,because Arabia is hot place people become adult more swiftly than other places.So, he married with her absolutely when she was adult.And also there is another reasons another wisdoms to marry with her.He became relative by marrying his closest friend's girl and she was given to him at his dream.
His young wife was very intelligent and the fourth person that memorize traditions(the prophet's words,actions) at most in number,which other old wifes couldn't that many of it,since they are old.She did memorize that many because she was young.
And at that times,there would be wars and in that wars,people would go to distant cities to fight in hot air conditions,since the other women are old ,the young women could only bear that conditions and go to wars and treat the injured.
Also...
He was married at his 25 with a woman who was at 40 and she died when the prophet was at his 50.Also,he died at his 63.He didn't marry with anyone else during his first marriage.Also,he did not mary with anyone between his 15 and 25 which one's carnal activity at top level and stay one-married until his 50.Until his 53,he stayed single and he started to mary after his 53 with women whose ages are 53,60,63 and roughly 50,55 and so on except one.You see that at these ages women don't have that much carnal activity generally.And he married with those to protect since their husbands were died.Actually,he got in burden by doing this marriages since they had a lot of children to look after along with them.It can be easily seen that he didn't do these marriages for himself,for lust since even when he was at 40s his enemies offer to give him city's most beatiful women to give up his case but he didn't accept.
Finally,since the prophet must be a model to his people,
since the religion had reached a lot of people at that time,people must learn his practices of everyday life.
Since he spent his time more with family than the ummah,
since he can not discuss with other women frequently,
his home life must be learnt by his women to another women
and his tradition in home must be transferred by women.-this was the case :already nearly the half of the religion was transferred by his wifes.
Quote from: "brq"[spoil:2scxdzxp]Your insults can not even pass by my prophet.
The case is not what you suppose.He did marry only one that is young.And this was not like as you perceive.He made a mariage agreement with her earlier.(you say this one) and married when she is at nearly 20s.Also,because Arabia is hot place people become adult more swiftly than other places.So, he married with her absolutely when she was adult.And also there is another reasons another wisdoms to marry with her.He became relative by marrying his closest friend's girl and she was given to him at his dream.
His young wife was very intelligent and the fourth person that memorize traditions(the prophet's words,actions) at most in number,which other old wifes couldn't that many of it,since they are old.She did memorize that many because she was young.
And at that times,there would be wars and in that wars,people would go to distant cities to fight in hot air conditions,since the other women are old ,the young women could only bear that conditions and go to wars and treat the injured.
Also...
He was married at his 25 with a woman who was at 40 and she died when the prophet was at his 50.Also,he died at his 63.He didn't marry with anyone else during his first marriage.Also,he did not mary with anyone between his 15 and 25 which one's carnal activity at top level and stay one-married until his 50.Until his 53,he stayed single and he started to mary after his 53 with women whose ages are 53,60,63 and roughly 50,55 and so on except one.You see that at these ages women don't have that much carnal activity generally.And he married with those to protect since their husbands were died.Actually,he got in burden by doing this marriages since they had a lot of children to look after along with them.It can be easily seen that he didn't do these marriages for himself,for lust since even when he was at 40s his enemies offer to give him city's most beatiful women to give up his case but he didn't accept.
Finally,since the prophet must be a model to his people,
since the religion had reached a lot of people at that time,people must learn his practices of everyday life.
Since he spent his time more with family than the ummah,
since he can not discuss with other women frequently,
his home life must be learnt by his women to another women
and his tradition in home must be transferred by women.-this was the case :already nearly the half of the religion was transferred by his wifes.[/spoil:2scxdzxp]
Why do you love to marry children before they reach puberty? This guy says Muhammad consummated when his wife was 9. Are you looking for a child bride?
[youtube:2scxdzxp]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlrJxaxaHRU[/youtube:2scxdzxp]
Quote from: "Colanth"Quote from: "brq"---IF WE LOOK AT THE GRAPE TREE AND IT'S LEAVES WE SEE THAT GRAPES AND LEAVES ARE GREEN BUT WOOD IS NOT
Because wood has no chloroplasts, because it isn't the part of the plant that creates food for the plant. It's the same reason you don't have digestive juices in your toes.
Please stop trying to use biology to teach us - you don't know anything about it.
You are right .It's chloroplast that gives a grape its clear as a reason.But it is just the reason.Reasons are just only the curtain and curtain does not make any work.For example,if I cover up my hand with cloth so that my hand is not seen.And then I grab and lift one cup.Can you say that this cup has lifted by that cloth just because you do not see my hand.(Of course,there is one power lifting it.)In fact,it's me that do work.In just the same way,reasons do not do anything.They are only the curtain so that people can be tested if they know the action from it or from the God.And by this way,God's power is hidden.Now,here chloroplast is only the reason.It is a thing that can not think that I must give a grape in order to relish people when they look grape.There is ONE knowing what people like and put that chloroplast into the grape since chloroplast does not have a will to be exist on the grape or on the wood.One having will that chloroplast to grape.
Now you may say,you just explain by examples.Then,I would say that thing that thing that is not known can be explained by thing that is known.I'm giving examples from everyday life that everyone can observe and understand.So,it's real .Since the same rule is valid for the thing that I want to explain,it's also true as much as the example you see obviously true in real life.That's why examples that all I give all true 100 per cent.They're obvious,evident as much that you seeing the computer's screen.They are all evidents.Since remote truths can only be zoomed by giving examples,I had to employ examples to explain abstract things.
One more thing,about one disease's care engineer do not have the right to talk about it because it is not about his area.
Similarly,spiritual and religious things can be understood not only by mind but also conscience and by heart.That's why scientists whose heart is blackened can not talk about these things because they are not in conscienceness's area.It's prophets,Allah's friends and people whose conscience is clear who have a right to say about God.Already,when the science is used consciously,it helps finding the God.
Quote from: "Icarus"Quote from: "brq"[spoil:1v9quqdn]Your insults can not even pass by my prophet.
The case is not what you suppose.He did marry only one that is young.And this was not like as you perceive.He made a mariage agreement with her earlier.(you say this one) and married when she is at nearly 20s.Also,because Arabia is hot place people become adult more swiftly than other places.So, he married with her absolutely when she was adult.And also there is another reasons another wisdoms to marry with her.He became relative by marrying his closest friend's girl and she was given to him at his dream.
His young wife was very intelligent and the fourth person that memorize traditions(the prophet's words,actions) at most in number,which other old wifes couldn't that many of it,since they are old.She did memorize that many because she was young.
And at that times,there would be wars and in that wars,people would go to distant cities to fight in hot air conditions,since the other women are old ,the young women could only bear that conditions and go to wars and treat the injured.
Also...
He was married at his 25 with a woman who was at 40 and she died when the prophet was at his 50.Also,he died at his 63.He didn't marry with anyone else during his first marriage.Also,he did not mary with anyone between his 15 and 25 which one's carnal activity at top level and stay one-married until his 50.Until his 53,he stayed single and he started to mary after his 53 with women whose ages are 53,60,63 and roughly 50,55 and so on except one.You see that at these ages women don't have that much carnal activity generally.And he married with those to protect since their husbands were died.Actually,he got in burden by doing this marriages since they had a lot of children to look after along with them.It can be easily seen that he didn't do these marriages for himself,for lust since even when he was at 40s his enemies offer to give him city's most beatiful women to give up his case but he didn't accept.
Finally,since the prophet must be a model to his people,
since the religion had reached a lot of people at that time,people must learn his practices of everyday life.
Since he spent his time more with family than the ummah,
since he can not discuss with other women frequently,
his home life must be learnt by his women to another women
and his tradition in home must be transferred by women.-this was the case :already nearly the half of the religion was transferred by his wifes.[/spoil:1v9quqdn]
Why do you love to marry children before they reach puberty? This guy says Muhammad consummated when his wife was 9. Are you looking for a child bride?
[youtube:1v9quqdn]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlrJxaxaHRU[/youtube:1v9quqdn]
Like I said before, he did make an mariage agreement(engagement) at her 9s but they actually married when his wife about 20s so after reaching puberty.Marriage agreement and marriage are different.Subject is distorted by bad intended people.Truth is like what I said like the history says.
Quote from: "brq"Quote from: "Icarus"Quote from: "brq"[spoil:15dijwie]Your insults can not even pass by my prophet.
The case is not what you suppose.He did marry only one that is young.And this was not like as you perceive.He made a mariage agreement with her earlier.(you say this one) and married when she is at nearly 20s.Also,because Arabia is hot place people become adult more swiftly than other places.So, he married with her absolutely when she was adult.And also there is another reasons another wisdoms to marry with her.He became relative by marrying his closest friend's girl and she was given to him at his dream.
His young wife was very intelligent and the fourth person that memorize traditions(the prophet's words,actions) at most in number,which other old wifes couldn't that many of it,since they are old.She did memorize that many because she was young.
And at that times,there would be wars and in that wars,people would go to distant cities to fight in hot air conditions,since the other women are old ,the young women could only bear that conditions and go to wars and treat the injured.
Also...
He was married at his 25 with a woman who was at 40 and she died when the prophet was at his 50.Also,he died at his 63.He didn't marry with anyone else during his first marriage.Also,he did not mary with anyone between his 15 and 25 which one's carnal activity at top level and stay one-married until his 50.Until his 53,he stayed single and he started to mary after his 53 with women whose ages are 53,60,63 and roughly 50,55 and so on except one.You see that at these ages women don't have that much carnal activity generally.And he married with those to protect since their husbands were died.Actually,he got in burden by doing this marriages since they had a lot of children to look after along with them.It can be easily seen that he didn't do these marriages for himself,for lust since even when he was at 40s his enemies offer to give him city's most beatiful women to give up his case but he didn't accept.
Finally,since the prophet must be a model to his people,
since the religion had reached a lot of people at that time,people must learn his practices of everyday life.
Since he spent his time more with family than the ummah,
since he can not discuss with other women frequently,
his home life must be learnt by his women to another women
and his tradition in home must be transferred by women.-this was the case :already nearly the half of the religion was transferred by his wifes.[/spoil:15dijwie]
Why do you love to marry children before they reach puberty? This guy says Muhammad consummated when his wife was 9. Are you looking for a child bride?
[youtube:15dijwie]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlrJxaxaHRU[/youtube:15dijwie]
Like I said before, he did make an mariage agreement(engagement) at her 9s but they actually married when his wife about 20s so after reaching puberty.Marriage agreement and marriage are different.Subject is distorted by bad intended people.Truth is like what I said like the history says.
Quote from: "brq"Like I said before, he did make an mariage agreement at her 9s but they actually married when his wife about 20s so after reaching puberty.Subject is distorted by bad intended people.Truth is like what I said like the history says.
You failed to mention they consummated when she was 9, that guy is considered an expert so I think he would know his history quite well. It's easy for you to pick and choose what to believe out of your religion but it conflicts with what actually happened.
Quote from: "Icarus"Quote from: "brq"Like I said before, he did make an mariage agreement at her 9s but they actually married when his wife about 20s so after reaching puberty.Subject is distorted by bad intended people.Truth is like what I said like the history says.
You failed to mention they consummated when she was 9, that guy is considered an expert so I think he would know his history quite well. It's easy for you to pick and choose what to believe out of your religion but it conflicts with what actually happened.
If it would like that,at that time(the prophet's time),enemies of the prophet and all people including his supporters would oppose this.But nobody from that time says nothing about this.Even his enemies says that the prophet was very honest and good person.They could not say him even liar.They would leave their trust to him.Even he said that "I'm prophet" they did not take their deposit from him.That much they would trust him.If there would be anyting like that,it would be heard by that time's people's mouth already..
Also,being an expert does not require saying the truth.Even the expert can lie if he takes side.He is human also as much as me.But there is nothing about this,this time's people say these kind of things..
Already, history does not say like that and it does not conflict ...
Quote from: "brq"Quote from: "Icarus"Quote from: "brq"Like I said before, he did make an mariage agreement at her 9s but they actually married when his wife about 20s so after reaching puberty.Subject is distorted by bad intended people.Truth is like what I said like the history says.
You failed to mention they consummated when she was 9, that guy is considered an expert so I think he would know his history quite well. It's easy for you to pick and choose what to believe out of your religion but it conflicts with what actually happened.
If it would like that,at that time(the prophet's time),enemies of the prophet and all people including his supporters would oppose this.But nobody from that time says nothing about this.Even his enemies says that the prophet was very honest and good person.They could not say him even liar.They would leave their trust to him.Even he said that "I'm prophet" they did not take their deposit from him.That much they would trust him.If there would be anyting like that,it would be heard by that time's people's mouth already..
Also,being an expert does not require saying the truth.Even the expert can lie if he takes side.He is human also as much as me.
Already, history does not say like that and it does not conflict ...
Why are you so sure they would oppose it? He is the prophet after all. I doubt very much that the people he was killing on mass were thinking "what an honest and good person this murder is". I'm pretty sure if anyone called the prophet a lier their head would be on a pike right quick. You're right that being an expert doesn't mean your saying the truth, which is why you never should have listened to the expert that brainwashed you into becoming religious. History conflicts on many things that are over a thousand years old, why are you assuming the absolute truth has lasted untarnished for so long?
Quote from: "brq"Quote from: "Colanth"Quote from: "brq"---IF WE LOOK AT THE GRAPE TREE AND IT'S LEAVES WE SEE THAT GRAPES AND LEAVES ARE GREEN BUT WOOD IS NOT
Because wood has no chloroplasts, because it isn't the part of the plant that creates food for the plant. It's the same reason you don't have digestive juices in your toes.
Please stop trying to use biology to teach us - you don't know anything about it.
You are right .It's chloroplast that gives a grape its clear as a reason.But it is just the reason.Reasons are just only the curtain and curtain does not make any work.For example,if I cover up my hand with cloth so that my hand is not seen.And then I grab and lift one cup.Can you say that this cup has lifted by that cloth just because you do not see my hand.
So you claim that the chloroplasts were put there by your god, but you don't show us any actual evidence that your god actually exists - and that's ALL we're interested in, evidence, not your claims. Anyone can claim anything - that doesn't make the claim true.
QuoteOne more thing,about one disease's care engineer do not have the right to talk about it because it is not about his area.
Similarly,spiritual and religious things can be understood not only by mind but also conscience and by heart.
Sorry, but real things can be understood by the brain. If you mean that your god exists subjectively, that's nice for you, but no one here cares.
So evidence or be used as a chew toy - it's your choice.
If it would like that,at that time(the prophet's time),enemies of the prophet and all people including his supporters would oppose this.But nobody from that time says nothing about this.Even his enemies says that the prophet was very honest and good person.They could not say him even liar.They would leave their trust to him.Even he said that "I'm prophet" they did not take their deposit from him.That much they would trust him.If there would be anyting like that,it would be heard by that time's people's mouth already..
Also,being an expert does not require saying the truth.Even the expert can lie if he takes side.He is human also as much as me.
Already, history does not say like that and it does not conflict ...[/quote]
Why are you so sure they would oppose it? He is the prophet after all. I doubt very much that the people he was killing on mass were thinking "what an honest and good person this murder is". I'm pretty sure if anyone called the prophet a lier their head would be on a pike right quick. You're right that being an expert doesn't mean your saying the truth, which is why you never should have listened to the expert that brainwashed you into becoming religious. History conflicts on many things that are over a thousand years old, why are you assuming the absolute truth has lasted untarnished for so long?[/quote]
Every doubt is transferred from that time to today but there is nothing from enemies(I meant polytheists of that time,people near,around him).Nothing about this subject from polytheists(infidels of that time),if it would be,then it must be heard from one infidel saying kind of things like "that man has married with a child","could it be possible?".but there is nothing.If it would had been,it would absolutelty be written or said.That's why I assert my idea.Another thing,--when Byzantine king asked to one of the famous infidel of that time that does Muhammad say lie?he did say "say everything about him as accusation but do not say liar"-- this event is transferred by that time. if that event was not true people standing there would oppose and say "nothing like that had happened"
but there is not kind of denial.so,it is true that people know him as good.
Also at that time, they did not left anyting that can be done to one man as disgusting.They got the children stone to him,they put tripe on his head while worshipping,they try to assassinate him over and over.If all of these would done to you,would not you react?But,still he did not react to all these he showed patience and do not do anything.But,wars were made since opponents would want to kill Muslims and stop their increasing number.And also to spread the religion,before wars to opponent it would be said that if you become Muslim we are not gonna hurt you"
Also,in Koran, it says "killing one man without purpose like killing the whole humans",all wars were made due to reasons not in vain.Wars are made against people doing defeatism so for purpose for protection..
I'm tired,?'m leaving see you.
Quote from: "brq"I'm tired,?'m leaving see you.
Don't you mean "I'm being made a fool of, so I'm leaving"?
Quote from: "brq"Every doubt is transferred from that time to today but there is nothing from enemies(I meant polytheists of that time,people near,around him).Nothing about this subject from polytheists(infidels of that time),if it would be,then it must be heard from one infidel saying kind of things like "that man has married with a child","could it be possible?".but there is nothing.If it would had been,it would absolutelty be written or said.That's why I assert my idea.Another thing,--when Byzantine king asked to one of the famous infidel of that time that does Muhammad say lie?he did say "say everything about him as accusation but do not say liar"-- this event is transferred by that time. if that event was not true people standing there would oppose and say "nothing like that had happened"
but there is not kind of denial.so,it is true that people know him as good.
Also at that time, they did not left anyting that can be done to one man as disgusting.They got the children stone to him,they put tripe on his head while worshipping,they try to assassinate him over and over.If all of these would done to you,would not you react?But,still he did not react to all these he showed patience and do not do anything.But,wars were made since opponents would want to kill Muslims and stop their increasing number.And also to spread the religion,before wars to opponent it would be said that if you become Muslim we are not gonna hurt you"
Also,in Koran, it says "killing one man without purpose like killing the whole humans",all wars were made due to reasons not in vain.Wars are made against people doing defeatism so for purpose for protection..
I'm tired,?'m leaving see you.
I think you're forgetting your prophet was a warlord, he didn't kill with kindness. If anyone were to say anything bad about him, he would have them killed, as I said. You really haven't responded to anything but are trying to grasp at the weak thread you realize your argument has become, which is why you're leaving. Bye.
The only thing I hate about religion is that you can convince any moron to do any damn thing as long as you tell them they'll be rewarded in the afterlife. In a world completely full of atheists, you going to be hard fucked to get an someone to fly a plane into a building.
QuoteOne more thing,about one disease's care engineer do not have the right to talk about it because it is not about his area.
Similarly,spiritual and religious things can be understood not only by mind but also conscience and by heart.
Sorry, but real things can be understood by the brain. If you mean that your god exists subjectively, that's nice for you, but no one here cares.
So evidence or be used as a chew toy - it's your choice.[/quote]
You want to see God.But the human can not see him.If it would then the secret of testing people would remove.But
the human can only understand his existense but can not know his merit.If 50 kg is loaded on scales which can weigh maximum 30 kg.Scales do not show the right value or deny 20 kg.Just like that,human brain has capacity and can not know the true merit (how it look likes.. etc.if it would be seen then it would not be the God already.) of the God,if one try to know the merit,he can not explain his in a right way or deny it just as in the scale example.
But the human can infer conclusions about the existence of the God by observing the universe.Look,dry woods are rubbed each other and ignites,fire forms.Now we look,where is the wood where is the fire.. They are completely different things.Then wood can not fire but God can fire there ,we can infer.Look your body,look your liver,it is only one piece of meat but it is very useful ,it has missions more than 300.As per one piece of meat can not does that much thing,they are done to it by someone that we call it God.
Look your eyes,what megapixel is it?look at camera what megapixel is it?Which one is better?camera or your eyes..Even the camera does not exist by itself,how could your eyes complexer,better than camera does not have Creator? We buy camera to 500 dolar,but we do not pay for our eyes..that is to say they are given to us by someone..
We pay for glasses,but not for eyes
pay for shoes,but not for feet.. That is to say they are given to us..
Also,look at Koran,it says to pharaoh that your body will saved from flood as a lesson for the later.Now we can see his body at museum.Is not it a proof?
Also,at Quran,in history there was a war between persian and byzantium.Byzantium took heavy defeat and lost a lot of realm.Nobody give a chance for them to take back their realm.Also,polytheists came and say the prophet that byzantium(byzantium is also believe God and persian worship to sun) had been defeated if God would want it they would not lost.And after that verse is revealed saying the greeks had lost at the very deep place of the ground ,but they will win after some years, at that day Muslims also be happy..After 7 years byzantium won ,and that day Muslims also won against their enemies, and also now scientists have found that place having lowest altitude is the place mentioned in the verse..It is obvious miracle for me..
Now, do not say how the Quran is protected from that day to now since there were writer of revelation after hearing from the prophet,also you can see the original Qurans written in that age,and in every age there are hafizs(people memorizing Quran)
And don't say how could we know one man did not write it since the prophet were unlettered and everybody at that time would know it.One book that is written by unlettered someone can not generate this effect..it is a kind of book that so far 350.000 explanation books about them are written and some of them are 70-80 volumes.Is it possible that people get that much thing from one unlettered person's book.?
Quote from: "brq"QuoteQuoteOne more thing,about one disease's care engineer do not have the right to talk about it because it is not about his area.
Similarly,spiritual and religious things can be understood not only by mind but also conscience and by heart.
Sorry, but real things can be understood by the brain. If you mean that your god exists subjectively, that's nice for you, but no one here cares.
So evidence or be used as a chew toy - it's your choice.
You want to see God.But the human can not see him.If it would then the secret of testing people would remove.But
the human can only understand his existense but can not know his merit.If 50 kg is loaded on scales which can weigh maximum 30 kg.Scales do not show the right value or deny 20 kg.Just like that,human brain has capacity and can not know the true merit (how it look likes.. etc.if it would be seen then it would not be the God already.) of the God,if one try to know the merit,he can not explain his in a right way or deny it just as in the scale example.
But the human can infer conclusions about the existence of the God by observing the universe.Look,dry woods are rubbed each other and ignites,fire forms.Now we look,where is the wood where is the fire.. They are completely different things.Then wood can not fire but God can fire there ,we can infer.Look your body,look your liver,it is only one piece of meat but it is very useful ,it has missions more than 300.As per one piece of meat can not does that much thing,they are done to it by someone that we call it God.
Look your eyes,what megapixel is it?look at camera what megapixel is it?Which one is better?camera or your eyes..Even the camera does not exist by itself,how could your eyes complexer,better than camera does not have Creator? We buy camera to 500 dolar,but we do not pay for our eyes..that is to say they are given to us by someone..
We pay for glasses,but not for eyes
pay for shoes,but not for feet.. That is to say they are given to us..
Also,look at Koran,it says to pharaoh that your body will saved from flood as a lesson for the later.Now we can see his body at museum.Is not it a proof?
Also,at Quran,in history there was a war between persian and byzantium.Byzantium took heavy defeat and lost a lot of realm.Nobody give a chance for them to take back their realm.Also,polytheists came and say the prophet that byzantium(byzantium is also believe God and persian worship to sun) had been defeated if God would want it they would not lost.And after that verse is revealed saying the greeks had lost at the very deep place of the ground ,but they will win after some years, at that day Muslims also be happy..After 7 years byzantium won ,and that day Muslims also won against their enemies, and also now scientists have found that place having lowest altitude is the place mentioned in the verse..It is obvious miracle for me..
Now, do not say how the Quran is protected from that day to now since there were writer of revelation after hearing from the prophet,also you can see the original Qurans written in that age,and in every age there are hafizs(people memorizing Quran)
And don't say how could we know one man did not write it since the prophet were unlettered and everybody at that time would know it.One book that is written by unlettered someone can not generate this effect..it is a kind of book that so far 350.000 explanation books about them are written and some of them are 70-80 volumes.Is it possible that people get that much thing from one unlettered person's book.?
At the risk of sounding like a broken record:
[youtube:1unn8rai]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_mDTLphIVY[/youtube:1unn8rai]
My god, man, your posts are unreadable. Are you just incapable of looking at what we write and using that to fix your grammar?
I'm tired,?'m leaving see you.[/quote]
I think you're forgetting your prophet was a warlord, he didn't kill with kindness. If anyone were to say anything bad about him, he would have them killed, as I said. You really haven't responded to anything but are trying to grasp at the weak thread you realize your argument has become, which is why you're leaving. Bye.[/quote]
Look,how can one book is become meaningless without teacher of it,Muhammad(sav) is the teacher of that universe book.Also,think that you sleep where you stand and wake up suddenly in one plane.First things you say would be "where did I come here""where does this plane go to""who bought me here"why am I here?"Now,we all also wake up in a plane that is moving with a speed of 1670 km/h.First questions that we need to ask are"Why are we here,who brought us here,where do we go?"Now,Muhammad(sav) had answered these questions in the best manner and save people from being nothing after the life and say that everything in the universe is worker of the God,and everything has the purpose..and suddenly everything got meaning and people's minds and heart are enlightened..
He was such a person that he did lie zero(0) times at his lifespan of 63 years
and he couldn't laughter because of his mission's importance and thinking his ummah's forward.but he was always smile.He is the best person ever.Of course,people can say about him bad things and will say.You could hear those things and may accept.But they never change the truth about him.
It sounds like you're really really in love with Muhammad, ever felt any sexual feeling towards him or the idea of him protecting you like a valiant knight saving a princess? You've literally ignored everything I've said and professed your love for Muhammad continuously, get a room.
Let me help you.
Ode to my one and only true love, by brq:
Quote from: "brq"Look,how can one book is become meaningless without teacher of it,Muhammad(sav) is the teacher of that universe book.Also,think that you sleep where you stand and wake up suddenly in one plane.First things you say would be "where did I come here""where does this plane go to""who bought me here"why am I here?"Now,we all also wake up in a plane that is moving with a speed of 1670 km/h.First questions that we need to ask are"Why are we here,who brought us here,where do we go?"Now,Muhammad(sav) had answered these questions in the best manner and save people from being nothing after the life and say that everything in the universe is worker of the God,and everything has the purpose..and suddenly everything got meaning and people's minds and heart are enlightened..
He was such a person that he did lie zero(0) times at his lifespan of 63 years
and he couldn't laughter because of his mission's importance and thinking his ummah's forward.but he was always smile.He is the best person ever.Of course,people can say about him bad things and will say.You could hear those things and may accept.But they never change the truth about him.
Now your post suddenly makes sense.
Quote from: "brq"QuoteOne more thing,about one disease's care engineer do not have the right to talk about it because it is not about his area.
Similarly,spiritual and religious things can be understood not only by mind but also conscience and by heart.
QuoteSorry, but real things can be understood by the brain. If you mean that your god exists subjectively, that's nice for you, but no one here cares.
So evidence or be used as a chew toy - it's your choice.
You want to see God.
Not unless there's evidence that he really exists first.
QuoteBut the human can not see him.If it would then the secret of testing people would remove.
That's a god that's beneath contenpt. Why would a god that already knew the outcome of the test want to test people?
QuoteBut the human can infer conclusions about the existence of the God
Only if he first assumes that the god (with an upper-case G, it's the name of one particular god) exists.
QuoteLook,dry woods are rubbed each other and ignites,fire forms.Now we look,where is the wood where is the fire.. They are completely different things.
The fire is the wood, after being vaporized, oxidizing rapidly.
Here again, you use something you know very little about (the physics and chemistry of fire) to explain something you don't understand.
QuoteThen wood can not fire
Unless it reaches a high enough temperature to vaporize, and there's sufficient oxygen.
Quotebut God can fire there
No need for any god, since physics and chemistry explain it all.
Quotewe can infer.
We can infer that you're desperate to maintain your illusion that your god exists, because if it didn't exist your life would have no meaning. That's evidence of your lack of ability to live without belief, not evidence of any god.
QuoteLook your body,look your liver,it is only one piece of meat
It's a LOT more than that.
Quotebut it is very useful ,it has missions more than 300.As per one piece of meat can not does that much thing,they are done to it by someone that we call it God.
Again, chemistry completely explains liver function.
QuoteLook your eyes,what megapixel is it?look at camera what megapixel is it?Which one is better?
"Better" for what? Cameras can see far into the infrared and ultraviolet and they have no blind spots. (Even an octopus eye doesn't have a blind spot. Some god - he gave the octopus better eyes than he gave us.)
Quotepay for shoes,but not for feet.. That is to say they are given to us..
You'll first have to show evidence (not inference, actual evidence) of this "giver".
QuoteAlso,look at Koran
It's a bunch of warlike nonsense written by a primitive warlord 1,400 years ago.
Quoteit says to pharaoh that your body will saved from flood as a lesson for the later.Now we can see his body at museum.Is not it a proof?
No, since there was no such flood.
QuoteAlso,at Quran,in history there was a war between persian and byzantium.Byzantium took heavy defeat and lost a lot of realm.Nobody give a chance for them to take back their realm.Also,polytheists came and say the prophet that byzantium(byzantium is also believe God and persian worship to sun) had been defeated if God would want it they would not lost.And after that verse is revealed saying the greeks had lost at the very deep place of the ground ,but they will win after some years, at that day Muslims also be happy..After 7 years byzantium won ,and that day Muslims also won against their enemies, and also now scientists have found that place having lowest altitude is the place mentioned in the verse..It is obvious miracle for me..
"Predictions" written after the fact fool only the foolish.
Try getting an education - you're VERY poorly educated (assuming you have anything more than the most basic of educations - you sound as if you had about 3-4 years of actual schooling, and maybe a lot more time spent getting religious indoctrination, which is NOT education).
Quote from: "brq"QuoteI'm tired,?'m leaving see you.
QuoteI think you're forgetting your prophet was a warlord, he didn't kill with kindness. If anyone were to say anything bad about him, he would have them killed, as I said. You really haven't responded to anything but are trying to grasp at the weak thread you realize your argument has become, which is why you're leaving. Bye.
Look,how can one book is become meaningless without teacher of it,Muhammad is the teacher of that universe book.
Mohammed was an illiterate pedophilic warlord. (He didn't teach anything about any book - his followers wrote down the things he said.)
QuoteFirst questions that we need to ask are"Why are we here,who brought us here,where do we go?"
You're assuming that there IS a reason. There's no evidence that there is, unless you first assume that there is.
QuoteNow,Muhammad had answered these questions
So does every religious leader - that's what religion is - making up answers.
Quotein the best manner and save people from being nothing after the life
Saying that there's life after death doesn't mean that there IS life after death. People lie, and religious leaders are the biggest liars, Mohammed included.
QuoteHe was such a person that he did lie zero(0) times at his lifespan of 63 years
If I could I'd send you a towel to dry your brain - it's been washed FAR too much.
Quoteand he couldn't laughter because of his mission's importance
His ONLY "mission" was killing his enemies. At least read actual history of your own religion - stop listening to people who don't know what they're talking about.
QuoteHe is the best person ever.
As far as child molesters go.
QuoteOf course,people can say about him bad things and will say.You could hear those things and may accept.But they never change the truth about him.
No, because they ARE the truth about him (may a thousand camels shit on his grave).
QuoteLook your eyes,what megapixel is it?look at camera what megapixel is it?Which one is better?camera or your eyes..Even the camera does not exist by itself,how could your eyes complexer,better than camera does not have Creator? We buy camera to 500 dolar,but we do not pay for our eyes..that is to say they are given to us by someone..
We have cameras that can read license plates from space and cameras that can observe individual moons of other planets in the solar system. Compared to that, our eyes are absolute shit.
Even compared to other biological eyes like those of the hawk, our eyes are pretty shitty.
There is no sense we humans possess that some other animal doesn't do way better. And then there's some senses animals possess that we don't even have.
Quote from: "Savior2006"The only thing I hate about religion is that you can convince any moron to do any damn thing as long as you tell them they'll be rewarded in the afterlife.
Belief of afterlife is necessary for everyone.Think of a child whose mother had died in accident.What would you say to him?"Your mother had gone nothing.You'll never see her again."or you say "she went a better placethan here and you will meet her again.Think of a man whose 99 per cent of his friends had gone to another city.If we say to him,do you want to go that city?He will say,of course,I want.Just like that our beloved one's in this world are going another place.And we will go there to meet them in one day.That's why the death is not end,it's just the beginning of the new eternal life.One tree's result is its fruit.And its fruit falls to the ground and fruit's seed causes a new tree to grow up.Similarly,this life tree's result is death and it causes a new life to start.Even the tree's information is protected in their seeds to grow a new tree in next spring,how would not human's memory is protected for a new life at hereafter spring?
If two man fight,after that they can fix the situation among each other.But if one kills another then people go to court or police.Likely,if one does small bad things in this world,but one commits big sins,then they would be fixed in another big court,so in hereafter life.God prepares dining table as big as world for just our tiny tummy,how could he satisfy our little wants and not satisfy our wish to be eternal that one man desires most.Of course,he will fullfil our this big demand after life.This world is just for testing.He will satisfy us with the real blessings whose samples shown in this world...
QuoteBelief of afterlife is necessary for everyone.
Nah, that's just what they tell you so you don't stop going to whatever holy place you go to. Everyone on this forum is doing just fine without a belief in any afterlife.
Just because you are not strong enough to deal with life without fairytales doesn't mean the rest of us aren't.
U know what I hate about religion/christianity. I hate that some of those preachers are so fukn good at selling bullshit that makes u feel like shit about yourself when u dnt live up to the perfection askd of u.
Quote from: "brq"Belief of afterlife is necessary for everyone.Think of a child whose mother had died in accident.What would you say to him?"Your mother had gone nothing.You'll never see her again."or you say "she went a better placethan here and you will meet her again.
Hell, why stop there? Why not just say that the person made a full recovery and is on vacation in the Bahamas or something?
Oh right, because that'd be lying.
QuoteOne tree's result is its fruit.And its fruit falls to the ground and fruit's seed causes a new tree to grow up.Similarly,this life tree's result is death and it causes a new life to start.Even the tree's information is protected in their seeds to grow a new tree in next spring,how would not human's memory is protected for a new life at hereafter spring?
1) You're comparing apples and oranges in comparing reproduction to immortality.
2) Human memory is not protected because human brain cells die. I would know, I think I've lost more than a few reading this garbage.
3) Wishful thinking.
QuoteIf two man fight,after that they can fix the situation among each other.But if one kills another then people go to court or police.Likely,if one does small bad things in this world,but one commits big sins,then they would be fixed in another big court,so in hereafter life.
Yeah, that's not how reality works. Not all crimes are punished, like genocides and Adam Sandler movies.
QuoteGod prepares dining table as big as world for just our tiny tummy,how could he satisfy our little wants and not satisfy our wish to be eternal that one man desires most.
Beats me. He's your God. You ask him.
QuoteOf course,he will fullfil our this big demand after life.This world is just for testing.He will satisfy us with the real blessings whose samples shown in this world...
Perhaps it's a test of mental fortitude and all the theists are losing. :-D
BRQ U must not grasp reality to well. Ur heart beats ur lungs inhale and life continues. Lose that and your just fukd. Say hello to god 4 me when ur dead bc im just going to be fertilizer 4 the apple seed.
Quote from: "Icarus"Quote from: "brq"Like I said before, he did make an mariage agreement at her 9s but they actually married when his wife about 20s so after reaching puberty.Subject is distorted by bad intended people.Truth is like what I said like the history says.
You failed to mention they consummated when she was 9, that guy is considered an expert so I think he would know his history quite well. It's easy for you to pick and choose what to believe out of your religion but it conflicts with what actually happened.
No one knows what
actually happened. The Sunni want Asha to be as young as possible because they want the descent of Islam to be through her, and it's more miraculous if she's really young and innocent. The Shia make her to be at least in her middle teens (same age as Mary when she had Jesus) up to possibly twenty, but arguably they're vested in discrediting the notion that she was particularly young since they disagree on how Islam was passed down.
Arguing for the Sunni interpretation puts one in the position of agreeing that imams are scripturally correct in endorsing child marriage, which is what you would have to do if it really was settled history; but since it's not, if I have my druthers, I'd ruther cast doubt on that interpretation.
Quote from: "brq"Quote from: "Savior2006"The only thing I hate about religion is that you can convince any moron to do any damn thing as long as you tell them they'll be rewarded in the afterlife.
Belief of afterlife is necessary for everyone.
Since a lot of people don't believe in an afterlife, that is patently false.
Quote from: "brq"Think of a child whose mother had died in accident.What would you say to him?"Your mother had gone nothing.You'll never see her again."or you say "she went a better placethan here and you will meet her again.
What if the child's mother was a Hindu? Would you tell her that her mother was going to be tortured in fire forever by Allah's will for not beiing the right religion? If not, why do you think an atheist would be cruel to a child? At least we don't have to lie in that situation. We can say honestly that her mother still lives in the memories of everyone who knew her and that as long as anyone who knew her lives, she will never truly be gone. As a for instance.
Quote from: "brq"Think of a man whose 99 per cent of his friends had gone to another city.If we say to him,do you want to go that city?He will say,of course,I want.Just like that our beloved one's in this world are going another place.And we will go there to meet them in one day.
Think of a man who's had 99% of his friends die. Some well-meaning individual tells him that they're not really dead, they've just gone to another city. When he dies, he'll go there, too. So he kills himself. If supposing things is how we make our points.
Quote from: "brq"That's why the death is not end,it's just the beginning of the new eternal life.
Death is not the end because we don't want it to be? I've not noted the universe being particularly accommodating to what we want to be the case.
Quote from: "brq"One tree's result is its fruit.And its fruit falls to the ground and fruit's seed causes a new tree to grow up.
The first tree is still dead.
Quote from: "brq"Similarly,this life tree's result is death and it causes a new life to start.Even the tree's information is protected in their seeds to grow a new tree in next spring,how would not human's memory is protected for a new life at hereafter spring?
Humans are like the tree. We die, but our children carry on. And like the tree, there's no reason to think some part of our identity is magically preserved just because it would be sad if it isn't.
Quote from: "brq"If two man fight,after that they can fix the situation among each other.But if one kills another then people go to court or police.Likely,if one does small bad things in this world,but one commits big sins,then they would be fixed in another big court,so in hereafter life.
Because we would like for justice not meted out in this life to still be enacted on a person even after they're dead, it must be so? You must lead a very fortunate life if it has led you to believe that the things you want to be true always are.
Quote from: "brq"God prepares dining table as big as world for just our tiny tummy,how could he satisfy our little wants and not satisfy our wish to be eternal that one man desires most.Of course,he will fullfil our this big demand after life.This world is just for testing.He will satisfy us with the real blessings whose samples shown in this world...
The God your talking about sounds an awful like an imaginary friend who exists to let you tell yourself that you're not really mortal and all your booboos will be kissed away after you're dead.
Quote from: "brq"Belief of afterlife is necessary for everyone.
Only for the weak-minded.
QuoteThat's a god that's beneath contenpt. Why would a god that already knew the outcome of the test want to test people?
---Since although he knows,you do not know the outcome of it.One teacher can know one of his lazy student's case whether he can pass the exam or not by considering his situation.But if he would say to student you will not be able to pass the exam so I do not make the exam.Then the student would say I want to enter exam,anyway.Likely,God makes exam to humans..
QuoteHere again, you use something you know very little about (the physics and chemistry of fire) to explain something you don't understand.
No need for any god, since physics and chemistry explain it all.
---Physics,chemistry and other arms of science are just the laws explaning how the mechanism of the happening thing is.They're true.But laws do not do action.Enter some workplace.You will see writing on the wall saying"do not smoke otherwise you will get this much money penalty"which is law.If you smoke there and if there is noone.Nobody can punish you.See that law does not do anything.But if there is one putting and applying the law,then punishment will occur.Scientific explanations are just the law explaining how events occur but they are effectless when the event occur,they do not cause the event to occur.There is one putting and applying the law setting this universe as a factory running in a great harmony.
QuoteAgain, chemistry completely explains liver function.
---Explaining chemistry's how it works does not mean that chemistry makes the work.There is someone who gives this function to it and makes work.
QuoteCameras can see far into the infrared and ultraviolet and they have no blind spots. (Even an octopus eye doesn't have a blind spot. Some god - he gave the octopus better eyes than he gave us.)
---Look,cameras you mention are only the camera or have little additional qualities.But
upper side of your camera,there is one library -as big as one fist- able to store terabytes of information,
under your camera,there is two-holled smell detector,under it,there is machine that can tell you every taste in the world,left and right side of your camera,there is two sound sensor that is adjusted to hear only the specific sound frequencies so that you do not go crazy by hearing the sound of the movement of very little ant and the spinning of the stars.Moreover,these items are connected to huge system including trillions of cells that work in great harmony.Does not this masterpiece have a master even dud pictures have one painter to do them?
QuoteIt's a bunch of warlike nonsense written by a primitive warlord 1,400 years ago.
---It's false behavior that killing people without purpose.But do not yo protect yourself against those can kill you immediately when getting the first chance?My prophet did not kill anyone in vain.He killed his enemies that always try to do the same to him.[/color]
Quote from: "brq"I don't.Since religion and belief of God makes people to live properly. One can not live like an animal since he has mind different from animal and have missions and religion teaches that missions.If we are to encompass the subject,people carry both past's regrets and future's worries and thus,cannot take the pleasure of that moment but animal has no mind and take pleasure of everything without thinking.Also,if we look again animals every one of them work greatly .for example,if we ask one cow,what are you doing?you don't play football,you don't drink beer, you live like a cow.why do you come to world?then the cow would say.go open the refrigerator .milk,meat,cheese from me.you make shoes and belts from my leather,you cannot tie your pant without me.Then it would say "What are you doing here?your meat is not eat you don't have milk and so on.Then we understand that we can not do what the animals do but we can think about them,and infer that if one cow does not have compassion,knowledge and love for us then milk is given to us by SOMEONE ELSE -who has compassion&knowledge-creates the cow at the same time and worship that creator and follow what that creator wants from us.
If your creator is so smart, why are you so dumb?
That is a serious question.
Quote from: "brq"---Look,cameras you mention are only the camera or have little additional qualities.But
upper side of your camera,there is one library -as big as one fist- able to store terabytes of information,
under your camera,there is two-holled smell detector,under it,there is machine that can tell you every taste in the world,left and right side of your camera,there is two sound sensor that is adjusted to hear only the specific sound frequencies so that you do not go crazy by hearing the sound of the movement of very little ant and the spinning of the stars.Moreover,these items are connected to huge system including trillions of cells that work in great harmony.Does not this masterpiece have a master even dud pictures have one painter to do them?
Look at the humble mantis shrimp (//http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mantis_shrimp). It can see colors that humans cannot even imagine. Where we have focal point in each eye, mantis shrimp have
thirty-six focal points in each eye.
You say that things like the human eye are proof that life had a designer. But if your Allah loves people, why would he give such eyes to a crustacean, and then give worse eyes to humans? If a man loves his son, does he feed his dogs better than the son?
Surely, if there is a god, it is a god of shrimp and not humans. :wink:
Quote from: "Graceless"Quote from: "brq"---Look,cameras you mention are only the camera or have little additional qualities.But
upper side of your camera,there is one library -as big as one fist- able to store terabytes of information,
under your camera,there is two-holled smell detector,under it,there is machine that can tell you every taste in the world,left and right side of your camera,there is two sound sensor that is adjusted to hear only the specific sound frequencies so that you do not go crazy by hearing the sound of the movement of very little ant and the spinning of the stars.Moreover,these items are connected to huge system including trillions of cells that work in great harmony.Does not this masterpiece have a master even dud pictures have one painter to do them?
Look at the humble mantis shrimp (//http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mantis_shrimp). It can see colors that humans cannot even imagine. Where we have focal point in each eye, mantis shrimp have thirty-six focal points in each eye.
You say that things like the human eye are proof that life had a designer. But if your Allah loves people, why would he give such eyes to a crustacean, and then give worse eyes to humans? If a man loves his son, does he feed his dogs better than the son?
Surely, if there is a god, it is a god of shrimp and not humans. :wink:
---Intelligence is the best gift which is not that high in other animals.Would you choose to be human or mantis shrimp?Answer to this question explains which one is better-gifted and created.We shouldn't consider the situation just in term of eyes or another particular ability.
---One's feeding dogs better than his son is up to him.Like I said,it's exam.One could
choose to build a building or exploding the building by putting a dynamite under it?It's up to him.In this case,one does not use properly the sense of compassion that God gives.Of course,we look after animals also,but not more than our kids.
---Like I said before,if you accept one creator,than it must be the one.Is giving 100 man to one person's command is logical or giving them 100 different commanders.You can not direct them regularly.Every commander does what he wants and there would be chaos.
---Military's dresses are produced by one factory.It is the same apparel that one private dresses with the other privates'.If it would not be,everbody's dress would be different.Just the same way,It is the same God who creates eye of the shrimp with God creating your eye.Because, the items are same.They are both eyes,so produced by the same hands.
---Even everybody has the same area members(I mean eye,nose,mouth) on nearly the same area on his face,everybody has different face.It's like that thanks to God,since,if you look there are 7 billion people on the world,and everyday 350.000 people are born and dying.It must be the same one who creating 7 billion and past people with those will come to this world.
[/color]
Quote from: "zarus tathra"I don't take the Bolshevist stance of hating religion because it's "superstitious." I hate it primarily because it is the diametric opposite of the free flow of information, which is one of my more fundamental personal values. It is for this reason that I hate things like communism and the corporate media at least as much, of not more.
Because it's bullshit . I don't like bullshit .
Quote---Look,cameras you mention are only the camera or have little additional qualities.But
upper side of your camera,there is one library -as big as one fist- able to store terabytes of information,
under your camera,there is two-holled smell detector,under it,there is machine that can tell you every taste in the world,left and right side of your camera,there is two sound sensor that is adjusted to hear only the specific sound frequencies so that you do not go crazy by hearing the sound of the movement of very little ant and the spinning of the stars.Moreover,these items are connected to huge system including trillions of cells that work in great harmony.Does not this masterpiece have a master even dud pictures have one painter to do them?
Eh, give us a few more decades and we'll build machines far more awesome. The internet is already quite a bit bigger and more amazing than the human brain. Supercomputers are at least equally complicated. Advanced computer software is as complex as the human mind.
You can sorta use your god of the gaps "masterpiece that is man" argument maybe for another generation before it joins the list of stuff that just gets you laughed at, like "the magnicent earth which is at the center of the universe".
If you let go of the idea of gods you can build things far greater than humans.
Quote from: "Plu"You can sorta use your god of the gaps "masterpiece that is man" argument maybe for another generation before it joins the list of stuff that just gets you laughed at, like "the magnicent earth which is at the center of the universe".
No matter how ridiculous an idea is, someone, somewhere, will continue to buy into it (//http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php).
I know. See above poster for more examples.
Quote from: "Plu"Quote---Look,cameras you mention are only the camera or have little additional qualities.But
upper side of your camera,there is one library -as big as one fist- able to store terabytes of information,
under your camera,there is two-holled smell detector,under it,there is machine that can tell you every taste in the world,left and right side of your camera,there is two sound sensor that is adjusted to hear only the specific sound frequencies so that you do not go crazy by hearing the sound of the movement of very little ant and the spinning of the stars.Moreover,these items are connected to huge system including trillions of cells that work in great harmony.Does not this masterpiece have a master even dud pictures have one painter to do them?
Eh, give us a few more decades and we'll build machines far more awesome. The internet is already quite a bit bigger and more amazing than the human brain. Supercomputers are at least equally complicated. Advanced computer software is as complex as the human mind.
You can sorta use your god of the gaps "masterpiece that is man" argument maybe for another generation before it joins the list of stuff that just gets you laughed at, like "the magnicent earth which is at the center of the universe".
If you let go of the idea of gods you can build things far greater than humans.
---Actually, here developing items better than human eyes is not the point that I want from you to concentrate on.Like you said here,whatever camera you are talking about not important whether it is better than human eyes or not is produced by somebody.Cables,chips and lenses do not come together by themselves to form one camera.Even very dud camera has one doer.Now,we look, human eye is not the worst eye at least,so it is created.Atoms constituting vessels,cornea and pupil did not come together to form the eye..[/color]
QuoteNow,we look, human eye is not the worst eye at least,so it is created.
Take some highschool level biology, they'll explain why you are wrong. This is stuff we teach 16 year olds in my country. It's really simple, actually.
We do not expect one's doing something if it does not have mind,conscious and power.Now,we suppose that atoms having no mind,conscious and power move to form one eye from embriyo to its last stance.This process mentioned in books are right but it does not mention about who constitute the eye,since atoms do not have self-control and volition,so they are worked by somebody.If God would want to create the eye in a sudden,he could.Then everyone must believe the God since they see it by their eyes.But if he creates it in some process,people can be tested.Like I said before,this world is the test world and people must be tested to see whether they know it from God or things that do not have any eye to see,ear to hear and mind to think.
Quote from: "brq"We do not expect one's doing something if it does not have mind,conscious and power.Now,we suppose that atoms having no mind,conscious and power move to form one eye from embriyo to its last stance.This process mentioned in books are right but it does not mention about who constitute the eye,since atoms do not have self-control and volition,so they are worked by somebody.If God would want to create the eye in a sudden,he could.Then everyone must believe the God since they see it by their eyes.But if he creates it in some process,people can be tested.Like I said before,this world is the test world and people must be tested to see whether they know it from God or things that do not have any eye to see,ear to hear and mind to think.
I can type in annoying colors, too.
Quote from: "brq"Now,we look, human eye is not the worst eye at least,so it is created.
You're assuming what you're trying to prove. Sad. Pitiable, really.
QuoteVessels,cornea and pupil did not come together to form the eye..[/color]
If only there were some sort of scientific theory that explained how human features oh I dunno,
evolved through gradual steps rather than instantly forming from scratch.
[youtube:10dlip00]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mb9_x1wgm7E[/youtube:10dlip00]
QuoteWe do not expect one's doing something if it does not have mind,conscious and power.
You don't. We completed high school, so we do understand how this proces actually works. Ignorance is not a virtue, even though your religion tells you so.
Quote from: "Hijiri Byakuren"Quote from: "brq"We do not expect one's doing something if it does not have mind,conscious and power.Now,we suppose that atoms having no mind,conscious and power move to form one eye from embriyo to its last stance.This process mentioned in books are right but it does not mention about who constitute the eye,since atoms do not have self-control and volition,so they are worked by somebody.If God would want to create the eye in a sudden,he could.Then everyone must believe the God since they see it by their eyes.But if he creates it in some process,people can be tested.Like I said before,this world is the test world and people must be tested to see whether they know it from God or things that do not have any eye to see,ear to hear and mind to think.
I can type in annoying colors, too.
:)
Quote from: "brq"QuoteThat's a god that's beneath contenpt. Why would a god that already knew the outcome of the test want to test people?
---Since although he knows,you do not know the outcome of it.
He's testing me so that
I'll know what I'd do in that situation? If the situation arises I'll know what I'll do, without being "tested". If it never arises it doesn't matter what I would have done if it had arisen. Your "logic" makes no sense.
QuoteOne teacher can know one of his lazy student's case whether he can pass the exam or not by considering his situation.But if he would say to student you will not be able to pass the exam so I do not make the exam.Then the student would say I want to enter exam,anyway.Likely,God makes exam to humans..
The teacher isn't all-knowing - your god is supposed to be. And in school all students have to pass the same test. In life not everyone has to "pass" the same situation. More "logic" that doesn't make any sense.
QuoteQuoteHere again, you use something you know very little about (the physics and chemistry of fire) to explain something you don't understand.
No need for any god, since physics and chemistry explain it all.
---Physics,chemistry and other arms of science are just the laws explaning how the mechanism of the happening thing is.
Which is what you were doing - by claiming that the mechanism is a god.
QuoteBut laws do not do action.
No, physical laws are the result of someone's observation and thinking. There's no "law" that we can't go faster than the speed of light, and we'll somehow be punished if we do. It's a FACT that we can't. Someone figured out that for something to go faster than the speed of light it would have to weigh more than the entire universe - and that's impossible. (Part of something can't weigh more than all of it.) So now there's a "law" that nothing can go faster than the speed of light. "Law", in the case of science, means something that someone figured out, it doesn't mean a law that some god made.
QuoteEnter some workplace.You will see writing on the wall saying"do not smoke otherwise you will get this much money penalty"which is law.If you smoke there and if there is noone.
See above. Physical laws aren't like that at all. We should have a completely different word for scientific law, so that people like you wouldn't get the idea that some god made up the law of gravity.
QuoteQuoteAgain, chemistry completely explains liver function.
---Explaining chemistry's how it works does not mean that chemistry makes the work.
No, the chemicals, and how different chemicals react with each other, makes it work.
QuoteThere is someone who gives this function to it and makes work.
There's NEVER been any evidence that this is true. The evidence shows that certain chemicals react in certain ways with other chemicals due SOLELY to the nature of those chemicals.
QuoteQuoteCameras can see far into the infrared and ultraviolet and they have no blind spots. (Even an octopus eye doesn't have a blind spot. Some god - he gave the octopus better eyes than he gave us.)
---Look,cameras you mention are only the camera or have little additional qualities.But
upper side of your camera,there is one library -as big as one fist- able to store terabytes of information, under your camera,there is two-holled smell detector,under it,there is machine that can tell you every taste in the world,left and right side of your camera,there is two sound sensor that is adjusted to hear only the specific sound frequencies so that you do not go crazy by hearing the sound of the movement of very little ant and the spinning of the stars.
And where is the magnetic detector that allows us to tell where we are? Even a little bird like a pigeon can do that. Why didn't your magnificent god give us the same ability, instead of having people get lost for millions of years, until A MAN invented the compass?
QuoteMoreover,these items are connected to huge system including trillions of cells that work in great harmony.Does not this masterpiece have a master even dud pictures have one painter to do them?
Yes - and the "master" is called evolution. No god is needed to explain any of it - unless you've already been brainwashed to believe that one is. Rational adult human beings don't believe in gods.
QuoteQuoteIt's a bunch of warlike nonsense written by a primitive warlord 1,400 years ago.
---It's false behavior that killing people without purpose.But do not yo protect yourself against those can kill you immediately when getting the first chance?
Even bugs do that - and they don't need a book to tell them to.
QuoteMy prophet did not kill anyone in vain.He killed his enemies that always try to do the same to him.[/color]
He CREATED enemies first - THEN killed them. If he had just stayed in his tent, and not tried to be the boss, none of that would have happened. But you've been told otherwise, and you're not intelligent enough to understand how badly you've been lied to.
Why do I hate religion? Because it takes people like you, who might have had the chance to grow up into intelligent adults, and turns them into moronic slaves. And you're a perfect example of it. They made you need to believe so badly that if Allah himself came down and told you, in person, that you're completely wrong about Islam, and religion in general, you'd argue with him.
Quote from: "brq"Quote from: "Graceless"Quote from: "brq"---Look,cameras you mention are only the camera or have little additional qualities.But
upper side of your camera,there is one library -as big as one fist- able to store terabytes of information,
under your camera,there is two-holled smell detector,under it,there is machine that can tell you every taste in the world,left and right side of your camera,there is two sound sensor that is adjusted to hear only the specific sound frequencies so that you do not go crazy by hearing the sound of the movement of very little ant and the spinning of the stars.Moreover,these items are connected to huge system including trillions of cells that work in great harmony.Does not this masterpiece have a master even dud pictures have one painter to do them?
Look at the humble mantis shrimp (//http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mantis_shrimp). It can see colors that humans cannot even imagine. Where we have focal point in each eye, mantis shrimp have thirty-six focal points in each eye.
You say that things like the human eye are proof that life had a designer. But if your Allah loves people, why would he give such eyes to a crustacean, and then give worse eyes to humans? If a man loves his son, does he feed his dogs better than the son?
Surely, if there is a god, it is a god of shrimp and not humans. :wink:
---Intelligence is the best gift which is not that high in other animals.Would you choose to be human or mantis shrimp?
Your argument is that the eye is proof that there's a god. Grace's argument is that humans have one of the worst eyes in the animal kingdom. So you shift the argument to intelligence.
This is the fallacy of moving the goal posts, and it's not a logical argument.
Quote---One's feeding dogs better than his son is up to him.
Likewise, Allah's giving better eyes to a shrimp than he gave to mankind is up to him.
You lose that one.
QuoteLike I said,it's exam.One could choose to build a building or exploding the building by putting a dynamite under it?It's up to him.In this case,one does not use properly the sense of compassion that God gives.
Then, by parallel logic, Allah shows US no compassion.
You lose again.
Quote---Like I said before,if you accept one creator,than it must be the one.Is giving 100 man to one person's command is logical or giving them 100 different commanders.You can not direct them regularly.Every commander does what he wants and there would be chaos.
But if one doesn't accept a creator, like we don't, arguing "if we accept the creator" isn't going to convince us.
You lose again.
Quote---Military's dresses are produced by one factory.It is the same apparel that one private dresses with the other privates'.If it would not be,everbody's dress would be different.Just the same way,It is the same God who creates eye of the shrimp with God creating your eye.Because, the items are same.They are both eyes,so produced by the same hands.[/color]
So shrimp outrank humans?
You lose again.
Go to your imam and tell him that you're having a discussion with atheists, trying to convince them that Allah actually exists, but you aren't smart enough to convince them to breathe, let alone that Allah is real, so you need him to give you some INTELLIGENT arguments.
Otherwise, we're in the position of arguing with an infant who doesn't have enough knowledge to do more than burp. We're just playing with you. The least well informed of us can make mincemeat out of your best arguments before we wake up in the morning. And you're not even intelligent enough to realize what we're doing. It's actually painful to see how badly you're being trounced - when you could have been raised by a SANE family and you could have been intelligent.
Quote from: "brq"---Actually, here developing items better than human eyes is not the point that I want from you to concentrate on.
Then why was it the point you made until people showed you how stupid it was?
QuoteNow,we look, human eye is not the worst eye at least,so it is created.
Non sequitur. (That means that the conclusion doesn't follow from the premise.)
QuoteAtoms constituting vessels,cornea and pupil did not come together to form the eye..
And your proof of that is???? Argumentum ad ignorantiam - "I don't know how it could be, so it can't be". Now come on. I KNOW that Turks can be more intelligent than that. We have one Turkish woman posting here who could outthink you in her sleep. So it's not the fact that you live in Turkey that makes you so uninformed.
Stop posting nonsense that an intelligent 5 year old can see the errors in.
Quote from: "brq"We do not expect one's doing something if it does not have mind,conscious and power.
Rotifers (little one-celled creatures) do things. Even plants do things. Plant cells that get less light grow faster than plant cells that get more light, so plants "turn" their leaves to face the sun. Why do they grow that way? Because plants that didn't got outcompeted by plants that did, because if you're a plant, turning your leaves to face the sun makes you stronger. No god needed.
(If you're now going to argue that it needed a god to make cells work that way, it didn't, since growth DEPENDS on light. So now you argue that a god had to make growth depend on light. But that's just how growth works. So ... you're going to end up claiming that for anything to exist, a god is needed. So what's the name of the god that created your god? Either your god exists, and needed another god to create it, or it didn't need to be created because it doesn't exist. "God is special" is called "special pleading", and it's the "argument" of a not-too-bright 3 year old.)
QuoteNow,we suppose that atoms having no mind,conscious and power move to form one eye from embriyo to its last stance.This process mentioned in books are right but it does not mention about who constitute the eye
Because there is no "who". Just as there is no "who" to make plants turn their leaves to the sun - it's just a natural process - based on the nature of the things involved in the process - in either case.
The ONLY "evidence" for any "who" is that YOU
need to believe that there is one. There's no ACTUAL evidence that there is one. (Your not understanding how things work isn't evidence of a "who", it's just evidence of your lack of knowledge.)
QuoteThe teacher isn't all-knowing - your god is supposed to be. And in school all students have to pass the same test. In life not everyone has to "pass" the same situation. More "logic" that doesn't make any sense.
---Everyone will be judged according to his exam.If there is 7 question on 70,10 questions on 100.No injustice..
QuoteNo, the chemicals, and how different chemicals react with each other, makes it work.
---If you do not mix them up in laboratory,would they react?Put chemicals with a 5 meter-space and wait 100 years
would anything happen by itself?You must do some action to start the reaction.Now,you look at the events and do not see someone mixing them up and say they happen by itself.But not seeing something does not mean it does not exist.Will you deny your mind or love since you do not see them?Although,the sun is kilometers away from us,it is always near to us by its light and heat.Although God,himself,does not reside in any place,he is always near to us by his name and adjective's transfigurations or effects-sorry I couldn't find a word to explain this term exactly-.He is always near eye when it is created-you say evolved- by his name "The Creator"'s transfiguration.He heals us when we are ill with his name "The Healer"'s transfiguration.
QuoteYes - and the "master" is called evolution. No god is needed to explain any of it - unless you've already been brainwashed to believe that one is. Rational adult human beings don't believe in gods.
---Evolution:).Does it have eye to see,ear to hear and brain to think?Even the human having brain,eye and ear is not able to bring about anything from absent,how could one term does all of works?
One more thing,nobody loses just because "you lose again" is said to him..[/color]
Quote from: "Colanth"Quote from: "brq"We do not expect one's doing something if it does not have mind,conscious and power.
Rotifers (little one-celled creatures) do things. Even plants do things. Plant cells that get less light grow faster than plant cells that get more light, so plants "turn" their leaves to face the sun. Why do they grow that way? Because plants that didn't got outcompeted by plants that did, because if you're a plant, turning your leaves to face the sun makes you stronger. No god needed.
(If you're now going to argue that it needed a god to make cells work that way, it didn't, since growth DEPENDS on light. So now you argue that a god had to make growth depend on light. But that's just how growth works. So ... you're going to end up claiming that for anything to exist, a god is needed. So what's the name of the god that created your god? Either your god exists, and needed another god to create it, or it didn't need to be created because it doesn't exist. "God is special" is called "special pleading", and it's the "argument" of a not-too-bright 3 year old.)
QuoteNow,we suppose that atoms having no mind,conscious and power move to form one eye from embriyo to its last stance.This process mentioned in books are right but it does not mention about who constitute the eye
Because there is no "who". Just as there is no "who" to make plants turn their leaves to the sun - it's just a natural process - based on the nature of the things involved in the process - in either case.
The ONLY "evidence" for any "who" is that YOU need to believe that there is one. There's no ACTUAL evidence that there is one. (Your not understanding how things work isn't evidence of a "who", it's just evidence of your lack of knowledge.)
---If you see one broom cleaning the ground or pen writing on notebook,you look for one holding the broom or pen.Since broom and pen do not have -again- mind,eye,ear and conscious,so they can not do any work by themselves.You just look like a man saying pen writes by itself by saying objects(cells,plants whatever you call it) do work.There is one controlling them when they look like doing something or they are in action but we do not see.Like I said,not seeing something does not mean it does not exist.So there is one God.I'm sorry for you..[/color]
QuotePut chemicals with a 5 meter-space and wait 100 years
would anything happen by itself?
Your sense of scale is off. Like, way off. Like, holy shit you cannot even begin to fathom how incredibly off your scale is.
Quote from: "brq"If you do not mix them up in laboratory,would they react?
Yes, dummkopf, they would. Why do you think they wouldn't?
QuotePut chemicals with a 5 meter-space and wait 100 years
would anything happen by itself?You must do some action to start the reaction.
Yes, and nature frequently takes such actions on its own. You need only look at the weather to see such processes in action. Such processes were also in action in the early days of Earth, when life was not present (but the chemicals needed to form it were). It's simple math from there, compadre.
Quote from: "Plu"QuotePut chemicals with a 5 meter-space and wait 100 years
would anything happen by itself?
Your sense of scale is off. Like, way off. Like, holy shit you cannot even begin to fathom how incredibly off your scale is.
---ok,put them with a 5 cm-space again there will be nothing unless one comes and mixes that chemicals..we get here from this fact that regardless of the distant there will not be anything since they(mindless objects,chemicals here) can not move by their will.[/color]
Quote from: "brq"Quote from: "Plu"QuotePut chemicals with a 5 meter-space and wait 100 years
would anything happen by itself?
Your sense of scale is off. Like, way off. Like, holy shit you cannot even begin to fathom how incredibly off your scale is.
---ok,put them with a 5 cm-space again there will be nothing unless one comes and mixes that chemicals..we get here from this fact that regardless of the distant there will not be anything since they(mindless objects,chemicals here) can not move by their will.[/color]
Still off by multiple factors of a billion. Still not even approaching in the furthest reaches the scale that these events happen on.
Quote from: "Hijiri Byakuren"Quote from: "brq"If you do not mix them up in laboratory,would they react?
Yes, dummkopf, they would. Why do you think they wouldn't?
QuotePut chemicals with a 5 meter-space and wait 100 years
would anything happen by itself?You must do some action to start the reaction.
Yes, and nature frequently takes such actions on its own. You need only look at the weather to see such processes in action. Such processes were also in action in the early days of Earth, when life was not present (but the chemicals needed to form it were). It's simple math from there, compadre.
It seems that you did not get my example.There is no wind,no any interaction from the outside,in one room.If you want you try ,take the tubes and start to wait in your house for next 100 years,compadre.
Like I said,nature can not do anything since mindless,consciousness and weak things can not do anything.God employs factors such as wind,rain and so on to make works, but you suppose that they do work suppose that nature does.Wrong..Sorry.[/color]
You really need to go back to grade school, and restart your education from scratch, if you still think that wind and rain are deployed by god and not natural processes. We figured those out a thousand years ago.
Hell, if you're going to limit your example to a single room, where does the room even come from? Did god make that just for you so that you could propose possibly the dumbest argument ever?
Quote from: "brq"---Evolution:).Does it have eye to see,ear to heat and brain to think?
This is literally the stupidest thing I have ever heard here.
(//http://thumb2.visualizeus.com/thumbs/09/03/01/burns,cartoon,flame,idiot,pain,stupid,stupidity-69d354f3a5e17eed7f5102bdb3421978_m.jpg)
QuoteEven the human having brain,eye and ear is not able to bring about anything from absent,how could one term does all of works?
Seems like you're wedded to the watchmaker argument so much that you can't even imagine anything happening without it being consciously brought forth. Yet, a myriad number of natural processes from plate tectonics to the water cycle occur without any thinking agent being involved. Evolution is such a process. All it requires is reproduction, variation, and selective pressure.
//http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/0_0_0/evo_14
//http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK22508/
Seriously, read a book.
Quote from: "brq"It seems that you did not get my example.There is no wind,no any interaction from the outside,in one room.If you want you try ,take the tubes and start to wait in your house for next 100 years,compadre.
So you've created a
laboratory condition in which the reaction cannot occur, and are using this as evidence that it can't occur in good ol' stormy nature.
(//http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-qFVp0Kp5gPA/UKE6P9xCPTI/AAAAAAAAEls/-4uT2objn6s/s400/jackie+chan+meme+my+brain+is+full+of+fuck+wtf.png)
Quote from: "brq"Like I said,nature can not do anything since mindless,consciousness and weak things can not do anything.God employs factors such as wind,rain and so on to make works, but you suppose that they do work suppose that nature does.Wrong..Sorry.
[youtube:3d3hzye2]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PnTEB3RuTY[/youtube:3d3hzye2]
The depth of religious indoctrination is quite deep with this one. Couple that with a deep lack of basic scientific knowledge and a habit of using logical fallacies to support his beliefs and what do you get?
Still off by multiple factors of a billion. Still not even approaching in the furthest reaches the scale that these events happen on.[/quote]
Oh,man. I say the same thing with you already,you need to bring them to optimum distance to happen something.But without one's impact they do not come to distance that is need for a reaction to start..But do not suppose that they are always in optimum distance just because you do not see one bringing them together.God
puts laws(I mean if you mix Na and HCl then NaCl and H2)puts every element a specific qualities and things happen according to that law after they come together.So everything is in the control of the God even our breathing.Since we do not get any education to learn how to breath,we just breath.Our life is dependent on two breath.If we can't take or give one of them,we die.But we are not aware of it since we get used to it so much.He donates us our life every moment like creating us with every 6 months by replacing our cells in our body.[/color]
Quote from: "brq"Oh,man. I say the same thing with you already,you need to bring them to optimum distance to happen something.But without one's impact they do not come to distance that is need for a reaction to start..But do not suppose that they are always in optimum distance just because you do not see one bringing them together.God
puts laws(I mean if you mix Na and HCl then NaCl and H2)puts every element a specific qualities and things happen according to that law after they come together.So everything is in the control of the God even our breathing.Since we do not get any education to learn how to breath,we just breath.Our life is dependent on two breath.If we can't take or give one of them,we die.But we are not aware of it since we get used to it so much.He donates us our life every moment like creating us with every 6 months by replacing our cells in our body.
How about you actually educate yourself on how abiogenesis works (//http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/abioprob/), and don't come back until then.
You just need to make the room big enough, the elements plentiful enough, and the time long enough, and things will start happening randomly. If you make "the earth" a room, "one day" the time and "all the stuff on the planet" into the chemicals, you only have to look outside to see reactions happening all the time, no outside influence required.
Now if you make "the universe" into a room, "the past 14 billion years" into the time and "everything" into the chemicals... I think your brain would pop out of your skull from over-exertion.
Quote from: "Plu"Quote from: "brq"Put chemicals with a 5 meter-space and wait 100 years
would anything happen by itself?
Your sense of scale is off. Like, way off. Like, holy shit you cannot even begin to fathom how incredibly off your scale is.
He's only off by a factor of 45 million or so. Practically a mulligan for creationists.
But to answer the (painfully stupid) scenario, all sorts of complex organic molecules do occur naturally (//http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/10/111026143721.htm). Conclusion falsified.
I was wrong when I was saying about the room and its conditions,you are right, but you did not want to understand the example.It is just an example.I'm giving it just for comparison.There is no need to go into very depth.The basic thing that I want to tell you that even the reasons like wind,air and so on is under the order of the God,they are just workers,if he would not want,nothing happens.It's also true that before humans there were a lot of year had gone,it is also mentioned in Quran,but it is just for people's seeing and understanding God's wisdom behind the events not for giving an lifeless things a real impress.If you look at the universe you will see great cleaning facility from Amazon jungles to dead stars cleaned by black holes.One house can not stay clean after one month without a cleaner.How could this universe stay clean without a cleaner?Black holes that clean stars and clouds with rain that clean jungles are just the worker of the God.Because these are lifeless things and they do not know how to clean and they do not want to clean and they do not have any cleaning education. The real cleaner is God.
Quote from: "brq"I was wrong when I was saying about the room and its conditions,you are right, but you did not want to understand the example.It is just an example.I'm giving it just for comparison.There is no need to go into very depth.The basic thing that I want to tell you that even the reasons like wind,air and so on is under the order of the God,they are just workers,if he would not want,nothing happens.It's also true that before humans there were a lot of year had gone,it is also mentioned in Quran,but it is just for people's seeing and understanding God's wisdom behind the events not for giving an lifeless things a real impress.If you look at the universe you will see great cleaning facility from Amazon jungles to dead stars cleaned by black holes.One house can not stay clean after one month without a cleaner.How could this universe stay clean without a cleaner?Black holes that clean stars and clouds with rain that clean jungles are just the worker of the God.Because these are lifeless things and they do not know how to clean and they do not want to clean and they do not have any cleaning education. The real cleaner is God.
Space isn't clean: http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2000/DaWeiCai.shtml (http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2000/DaWeiCai.shtml)
QuoteIf you look at the universe you will see great cleaning facility from Amazon jungles to dead stars cleaned by black holes
Wat. :-s
These are NOT "great cleaning facility".
Respectively, these are an incredibly biodiverse and important ecosystem and incredibly dense regions of space that absorb matter and emit radiation with a tendency towards being messy (//http://www.space.com/22586-milky-way-giant-black-hole-food.html).
QuoteBecause these are lifeless things and they do not know how to clean and they do not want to clean and they do not have any cleaning education. The real cleaner is God.
I was wrong before. This is the dumbest thing I have ever read on this forum.
(//http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/tumblr_inline_mhcwnstm8w1qz4rgp.gif)
Quote from: "brq"QuoteThe teacher isn't all-knowing - your god is supposed to be. And in school all students have to pass the same test. In life not everyone has to "pass" the same situation. More "logic" that doesn't make any sense.
---Everyone will be judged
Again - your assertion, no evidence.
QuoteQuoteNo, the chemicals, and how different chemicals react with each other, makes it work.
---If you do not mix them up in laboratory,would they react?
Yes - if they came together without being mixed in a laboratory. The laboratory doesn't change the nature of the chemicals.
QuotePut chemicals with a 5 meter-space and wait 100 years
Or put them all into the same ocean and wait HALF A BILLION years. Oh, wait - that's what actually happened.
QuoteQuoteYes - and the "master" is called evolution. No god is needed to explain any of it - unless you've already been brainwashed to believe that one is. Rational adult human beings don't believe in gods.
---Evolution:).Does it have eye to see,ear to hear and brain to think?
They all evolved, piece by piece.
QuoteEven the human having brain,eye and ear is not able to bring about anything from absent,how could one term does all of works?
There was no "absent", there was an entire universe. (Or did you switch from biological evolution to cosmological genesis in the middle of a sentence?)
QuoteOne more thing,nobody loses just because "you lose again" is said to him..
I was just pointing out a fact, not saying that you lost BECAUSE I pointed it out. That would be magical thinking, and that's your bag, not mine.
Quote from: "brq"---If you see one broom cleaning the ground or pen writing on notebook,you look for one holding the broom or pen.Since broom and pen do not have -again- mind,eye,ear and conscious,so they can not do any work by themselves.You just look like a man saying pen writes by itself by saying objects(cells,plants whatever you call it) do work.There is one controlling them when they look like doing something or they are in action but we do not see.Like I said,not seeing something does not mean it does not exist.So there is one God.
Again, your assertion, no evidence. That you're not capable of logic, and you don't understand how things happen, is not evidence that there's a god. It's just evidence of your lack of education. (Which, I KNOW, is available in Turkiye.)
Quote from: "brq"It seems that you did not get my example.There is no wind,no any interaction from the outside,in one room.
Wind is a function of difference in temperature so, yes, there can be wind inside a room. (The building in which space vehicles are assembled, at Cape Kennedy, has its own weather system INSIDE the building, that's different from the weather outside the building. It's just due to the immense size of the building.)
If you're talking about things outside affecting things inside, of course the air inside a room CONSISTING OF WINDPROOF WALLS can't be affected by wind outside those walls. Because WE built those walls that way. No god involved.
Oh, and nothing not inside the universe can affect anything inside the universe. And your god, if it created the universe, would have to be outside the universe. (Because it couldn't have been inside the universe before it created the universe - and couldn't have gotten inside it once it was created.) So it can't affect anything in the universe.
Oops.
QuoteLike I said,nature can not do anything since mindless,consciousness and weak things can not do anything.
And as I said, plants do things, and plants have no minds or consciousness. They don't do things willfully (of course creatures with no will can't do things willfully - green plants can't be red and fire can't be cold), but they still "do" things.
QuoteGod employs factors such as wind
Again, wind is just air being forced (by very simple physics) to move from a warmer place to a cooler place. Things with positive temperature coefficients (due, simply, to their inherent properties) expand when heated. When air expands it moves (due to what "expand" means). No god needed.
Quoterain
Physics again. Sunlight produces heat, which causes water to evaporate. When it rises to a cooler region of the atmosphere it condenses and rains down. The same way a self-basting dutch oven works, but on a larger scale. No god needed.
Quotebut you suppose that they do work suppose that nature does.Wrong.
No, I don't "suppose" anything, I actually understand physics. If you did you wouldn't accept someone's supernatural explanation for a simple physical process. But you were "educated" (dumbed is more like it) to accept supernatural nonsense and reject reality. (So that the imams could live a good life without having to work for it - that's all any religion was ever for - the ease of the people running it, at the cost of the work of the fools accepting it. If Mohammed's followers hadn't invented Islam you'd probably be a devout Christian. You're just the kind of person who needs to be led by those who take advantage of others. Don't feel bad, though - the world is full of people like you. 90% of the human population of the world is fooled by religion.)
Quote from: "Hydra009"Seriously, read a book.
Reading is anathema to religion. Religion was FAR better off when illiteracy (even among the religious leaders) was the norm.
Quote from: "brq"I say the same thing with you already,you need to bring them to optimum distance to happen something.
When there are trillions of trillions of tons of chemicals mixing in a world-wide ocean, that's not a problem.
QuoteGod puts laws(I mean if you mix Na and HCl then NaCl and H2)puts every element a specific qualities and things happen according to that law
That "law" isn't something that someone made to be, it's something that a MAN observed to be. "Natural law" doesn't refer to the same thing as "man-made law". The word "law" is different in the two cases. TOTALLY different. Natural laws aren't made things, they're observations.
So we're still waiting for you to post OBJECTIVE evidence that your god OBJECTIVELY exists. Not your misunderstandings of science. Not your made up "examples" that even well-educated children would laugh at. OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE. (And if you don't know EXACTLY what that means, that can be your first real education - looking it up and studying it until you do understand.)
May God have mercy on your soul, for Colanth shall have none. =D>
Quote from: "brq"I was wrong when I was saying about the room and its conditions,you are right, but you did not want to understand the example.It is just an example.I'm giving it just for comparison.There is no need to go into very depth.
So since "there is no god and you're wrong" is just an example, and there's no need to go into depth, you should just accept it and give up religion.
Right?
According to you, it's right.
QuoteThe basic thing that I want to tell you that even the reasons like wind,air and so on is under the order of the God
That's assuming your conclusion. Where's the EVIDENCE that this god of yours exists?
QuoteIt's also true that before humans there were a lot of year had gone,it is also mentioned in Quran
Not unless you make up that somethnbing in the Quran means that. You CAN NOT quote any part of the Quran that ACTUALLY SAYS that many years passed before there were human beings.
QuoteIf you look at the universe you will see great cleaning facility from Amazon jungles to dead stars cleaned by black holes.
Not all dead stars are "cleaned" by black holes, and many active stars (many probably with planets, some possibly with life) are "cleaned" by black holes. Your god's not very good at this "cleaning" stuff, is he?
QuoteOne house can not stay clean after one month without a cleaner.
Neither can the universe. Much of the non-dark-matter mass of the universe is dust.
QuoteHow could this universe stay clean without a cleaner?
It can't. It doesn't. I guess that means no god, right?
QuoteBlack holes that clean stars and clouds with rain that clean jungles are just the worker of the God.
Black holes are the work of gravity. Rain is the work of condensation. No god needed.
QuoteBecause these are lifeless things and they do not know how to clean and they do not want to clean and they do not have any cleaning education.
It doesn't take "cleaning education" for falling water to wash dust off leaves - that's what water does when it falls. No god needed.
We're still waiting for you to post objective evidence that your god objectively exists. (Waiting for you to stop posting nonsense would be hopeless, because you won't stop until the forum go away or you die or decide to leave. You can't imagine anything happening without your god being involved, more's the pity.)
Quote from: "Hijiri Byakuren"May God have mercy on your soul, for Colanth shall have none. =D>
I don't have "mercy" on non-existent things - like his soul or his wisdom.
But I do have faith - that there will be posts that are even more filled with stupid.
Quote from: "Colanth"Quote from: "Hijiri Byakuren"May God have mercy on your soul, for Colanth shall have none. =D>
I don't have "mercy" on non-existent things - like his soul or his wisdom.
Are you seriously going to pick a fight over the turn of phrase I chose to use there? Really?
And if you weren't, please make your intent clearer in the future, because tone does not come across well over text.
Quote from: "Colanth"Quote from: "Hydra009"Seriously, read a book.
Reading is anathema to religion. Religion was FAR better off when illiteracy (even among the religious leaders) was the norm.
I'm dead serious, though. I'll never understand why religious people want to hash out a 10-page thread on thermodynamics or evolution or whatever without first having some sort of primer on the subject. A book. A documentary. Hell, even a wiki page is better than nothing.
Quote from: "Hydra009"Quote from: "Colanth"Quote from: "Hydra009"Seriously, read a book.
Reading is anathema to religion. Religion was FAR better off when illiteracy (even among the religious leaders) was the norm.
I'm dead serious, though. I'll never understand why religious people want to hash out a 10-page thread on thermodynamics or evolution or whatever without first having some sort of primer on the subject. A book. A documentary. Hell, even a wiki page is better than nothing.
They have the Bible which - in their infinite (total lack of) wisdom - trumps any mere knowledge. How can we - godless heathens - know more than their infinite god? (Who, of course, imparts all that he knows to them to use to convince us that we're wrong. [When did any god ever know anything that he hadn't let his people know about?])
Quote from: "Hijiri Byakuren"Quote from: "Colanth"Quote from: "Hijiri Byakuren"May God have mercy on your soul, for Colanth shall have none. =D>
I don't have "mercy" on non-existent things - like his soul or his wisdom.
[blink:31wiz9g8]</SARCASM>[/blink:31wiz9g8]
Are you seriously going to pick a fight over the turn of phrase I chose to use there? Really?
And if you weren't, please make your intent clearer in the future, because tone does not come across well over text.
Better? :)
Quote from: "Colanth"Quote from: "Hijiri Byakuren"Quote from: "Colanth"I don't have "mercy" on non-existent things - like his soul or his wisdom.
[blink:27vlmrha]</SARCASM>[/blink:27vlmrha]
Are you seriously going to pick a fight over the turn of phrase I chose to use there? Really?
And if you weren't, please make your intent clearer in the future, because tone does not come across well over text.
Better? :)
Much. 8-)
Quote from: "Colanth"If there is no god, you've wasted a large part of your life praying, not doing things your religion forbids, doing things your religion requires, etc.
Muslims have to pray five times every day. FIVE TIMES. Just think of the hours wasted each day on this stupid, arrogant, selfish God who insists that people stop whatever they are doing, no matter how important, just so they can tell him what a wonderful guy he is. "ME! ME! ME! PAY ATTENTION TO ME!" screams Allah, and if they don't obey, they will go to hell. What a waste of time. What a waste of a life, believing such bullshit.
Quote from: "brq"Like I said before, he did make an mariage agreement(engagement) at her 9s but they actually married when his wife about 20s so after reaching puberty.Marriage agreement and marriage are different.Subject is distorted by bad intended people.Truth is like what I said like the history says.
It doesn't matter what you think was intended. Many, many girls are married off at a very young age because Muslim priests say this is acceptable. Recently, an 8-year-old girl died of physical sexual trauma when her much older husband tried to fuck her. These are your fellow MUSLIMS doing these horrible things to children. And even when it is only a "marriage agreement," that is STILL disgusting! Why in the world would a 40-year-old man agree to marry a little girl? Your religion is filled with perverted, nasty, evil men who love to rape girls, and you wonder why we hate your religion. Yes, it's true that not all Muslims are like that, but why don't they speak out against it more often? If you disagree with this practice, yet you don't protest about it, then you are no better than the old man who marries a young child and rapes her to death.
Quote from: "brq"Belief of afterlife is necessary for everyone.Think of a child whose mother had died in accident.What would you say to him?"Your mother had gone nothing.You'll never see her again."or you say "she went a better place than here and you will meet her again.
I would say, "I am very sorry that your mother died," and leave it at that. Children don't understand about any afterlife. That's an abstract concept that even adults can't explain. If they could, there wouldn't be different people believing in different kinds of afterlife. Some believe that we are reincarnated over and over. They would say to a child, "Perhaps you will meet your mother again in another life." But there is no evidence for any kind of afterlife, whether it's heaven, hell, purgatory, or reincarnation. Just because a lot of people believe in it, doesn't make it true.
Quote from: "brq"If God would want to create the eye in a sudden,he could.Then everyone must believe the God since they see it by their eyes.But if he creates it in some process,people can be tested.Like I said before,this world is the test world and people must be tested to see whether they know it from God or things that do not have any eye to see,ear to hear and mind to think.
So, what you are saying is that, if God were to do some great miracle, everyone would instantly believe in him because then they would see that he exists. But instead of that, he chooses to make it look as if evolution is true, so that we will be tested to see whether we will believe in God--which we can't see, hear, touch, or talk to--or in the scientific facts. Well, if that's God's way of testing people, then he is very, very stupid. There are millions of people who don't believe in God simply because there is NO EVIDENCE for him. If God created the world to look as if there is no evidence that he exists, then how can he blame us for assuming that he doesn't exist?
By the way, why is God a "he?" Why not a "she?" Does Allah have a penis and testicles?
Why is it wrong to hate religion?
CONTEXT matters so when we say I hate religion here is what I mean.
i hate it because it is an excuse to create a human hierarchy. i hate it because it teaches you to be satisfied with having no evidence to back up your claims. i hate it because it is used as a political weapon which divides humanity.
I do not hate human rights. I love my family members and co workers who are have a range of religious beliefs. But that does not mean I have to like every claim they may make.
I am under no delusion that on a planet of 7 billion we can rid the world of religion. I do hate any attempts to end challenge to claims by throwing up taboos so that others don't have to face the prospect that they might be wrong. I HATE THAT THE MOST.
I hate religion just like I would hate it if I had a friend who went around claiming the New York Yankeys won the Superbowl. If humans never questioned social norms our species never would have left the caves.