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Won't work. Their keyword searches now include context. You'll have to put those in a sentence.
What's a siliconpimp?
Aw :) That's cute. (//http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_theory)
Quote from: "Jason_Harvestdancer"Won't work. Their keyword searches now include context. You'll have to put those in a sentence.
I wouldn't know. In any case, it will waste raw computing power checking for said context.
Awww man, now they are going to be onto my plans of building a nuclear pumpkin in my garden and eating it, turning me into a super-human who will be able to eat the entire NSA headquarters in one bite. Way to go.
So we're trolling the NSA now? Yeah, that's a good idea. :shock:
Quote from: "stromboli"So we're trolling the NSA now? Yeah, that's a good idea. :shock:
Yes, they might get wind of my thermo-nuclear holy hand grenade of Antioch. As much as I've tried polishing it, its quite a dirty bomb.
Terrorism!
(That ought to do it)
We shouldn't troll the NSA.
They will catch on to my plans for world domination... and playing ding dong ditch with the president.
:rollin:
Quote from: "PickelledEggs"and playing ding dong ditch with the president.
:rollin:
(//http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3fsy8z6IB1rudgm1o1_400.jpg)
When I was with the USAF, I had a TSC clearance. I spent a year assigned to the NSA, mostly monitoring Afghanistan air space when the Soviet Union was sending lots of troops there. I can neither confirm nor deny that the book The Puzzle Palace contains a lot of accurate information about the NSA and security classifications including real code words in use at the time, but I recommend you read it if you're interested in that sort of thing.
In case anyone is interested COTA's phone number is 614-228-1776. COTA is the Central Ohio Transit Authority. Call and ask when the #6 is due downtown heading to the VA. The gubnit needs to learn how to be punctual.
I would fool around with that stuff too much. I was being funny and told my younger son to look up Kwajalein (It was top secret at the time) on the internet and see what he finds. He got a reply back asking him why he was interested in them. A few minutes later the phone rang and I had to explain to them that I was just having fun with my son. They didn't think it was funny. Scared the crap out of my son when the screen on his computer went weird and the message appeared in red asking him who he was. As if they didn't know. They take this stuff very serious. Solitary
The Kwajalein Atoll has never been anything close to secret since the internet has existed.
Quote from: "Solitary"I would fool around with that stuff too much. I was being funny and told my younger son to look up Kwajalein (It was top secret at the time) on the internet and see what he finds. He got a reply back asking him why he was interested in them. A few minutes later the phone rang and I had to explain to them that I was just having fun with my son. They didn't think it was funny. Scared the crap out of my son when the screen on his computer went weird and the message appeared in red asking him who he was. As if they didn't know. They take this stuff very serious. Solitary
i don't believe this for a second.
so secret they've had a facebook page since 2010
https://www.facebook.com/USArmyKwajaleinAtoll (https://www.facebook.com/USArmyKwajaleinAtoll)
As an aircraft welder, I built stuff for Kwajalein back in the 70's. It was a launch point for Star Wars. We built the trailers that they shipped the 2nd stage boosters on. It might've had some classification then, but neither myself nor the other people involved had clearances and we were told openly where the stuff was headed.
Quote from: "surly74"Quote from: "Solitary"I would fool around with that stuff too much. I was being funny and told my younger son to look up Kwajalein (It was top secret at the time) on the internet and see what he finds. He got a reply back asking him why he was interested in them. A few minutes later the phone rang and I had to explain to them that I was just having fun with my son. They didn't think it was funny. Scared the crap out of my son when the screen on his computer went weird and the message appeared in red asking him who he was. As if they didn't know. They take this stuff very serious. Solitary
i don't believe this for a second.
so secret they've had a facebook page since 2010
https://www.facebook.com/USArmyKwajaleinAtoll (https://www.facebook.com/USArmyKwajaleinAtoll)
Thanks for calling me a liar! At the time that was top secret even if it isn't now. I'm talking about when it was being built. Is that all you do is try to find faults with what people say here? :roll: Solitary
Quote from: "bericks999"The Kwajalein Atoll has never been anything close to secret since the internet has existed.
Isn't obvious I'm talking about it when it was being built? :-o Solitary
Quote from: "Solitary"Thanks for calling me a liar! At the time that was top secret even if it isn't now. I'm talking about when it was being built. Is that all you do is try to find faults with what people say here? :roll: Solitary
this is why.
QuoteI was being funny and told my younger son to look up Kwajalein (It was top secret at the time) on the internet and see what he finds
maybe you aren't a liar...maybe you are just grandpa simpson.
start a thread telling us how having an onion tied to your belt was the style at the time.
It was obviously being built before 1961.
In December 1961, the first Nike Zeus was launched from Kwajalein. In 1962, a historic launch was made in which the outgoing Zeus came within lethal range of an incoming Atlas rocket. In May 1963, the Zeus demonstrated its ability to intercept an object in orbit.
At this time, radar limitations forced the program to evolve into the Nike X program. Nike X employed a modified Zeus missile for long-range intercepts and used the Sprint for point defense. The new accompanying test radars required additional construction and, again PMZ received the contract. Meek Island, located 19 miles north of Kwajalein, was chosen to host many of the new facilities. For safety, natives from nearby islands had to be relocated. Overcrowding at the relocation site of Ebeye remained a source of tension for many years.
In July 1964, the Navy transferred Kwajalein to Army control and the facility became known as the Kwajalein Test Site. At Meek Island, construction centered around a control building that housed a phased-array radar. Completed in the fall of 1967, this facility served as a prototype of the type of structure envisioned for the Sentinel anti-ballistic missile (ABM) system. The modified Nike Zeus, renamed Spartan, was first successfully launched from Kwajalein's Mt. Olympus in the spring of 1968. Unfortunately, the construction of sister launch cells on Meek Island ran into extreme seepage problems, delaying activation until 1970.
Renamed in April 1968, as the Kwajalein Missile Range, the atoll base came under the jurisdiction of the Sentinel Systems Command. In March 1968, Sentinel Systems Command became Safeguard Systems Command.
Meanwhile, in 1968, Project PRESS had become a joint-service activity and was reorganized as the Kwajalein Field Measurements Program. In 1969, the Roi-Namur facility was dedicated as the Kiernan Reentry Measurements Site.
With the Meek Island facility operational, several test launchings of Spartan and Sprint missiles occurred in the early 1970s. Additional launchers were built on nearby Illeginni Island to conduct remote missile launches controlled by Meek Island.
In 1974, Kwajalein Missile Range came under the control of the newly formed Ballistic Missile Defense Systems Command. Construction work during this period included upgrading support structures and installing additional highly sophisticated tracking devices.
In 1981, Meek Island became host to a new facility as a huge launch tower arrived from Cape Kennedy. This tower became an important component in the Homing Overlay Experiment, an ambitious project designed to launch platforms into stationary orbit where they would be capable of discerning incoming nuclear warheads from decoys. Once the warheads were identified, these platforms would fire interceptors to destroy some of the threatening projectiles. The experiment was designed as a first step for a ballistic missile defense.
Even if the internet started later you think the government wouldn't be concerned as to why a person is contacting the missile site and not a web address. I didn't mean to imply it was still top secret when I told my son even though I still thought it was. This is the most pedantic forum I've ever been at. I post the latest science and esoteric facts and I get this shit every time by people that are just looking for any little fucking error because of their delusions. I feel like I'm at a Christian site or one with 12 year old kids, and that is not a compliment.
The history of the Internet began with the development of electronic computers in the 1950s. The public was first introduced to the concepts that would lead to the Internet when a message was sent over the ARPANet from computer science Professor Leonard Kleinrock's laboratory at University of California, Los Angeles (UCLA), after the second piece of network equipment was installed at Stanford Research Institute (SRI). Packet switched networks such as ARPANET, Mark I at NPL in the UK, CYCLADES, Merit Network, Tymnet, and Telenet, were developed in the late 1960s and early 1970s using a variety of protocols. The ARPANET in particular led to the development of protocols for internetworking, in which multiple separate networks could be joined together into a network of networks.
In 1982, the Internet protocol suite (TCP/IP) was standardized, and consequently, the concept of a world-wide network of interconnected TCP/IP networks, called the Internet, was introduced. Access to the ARPANET was expanded in 1981 when the National Science Foundation (NSF) developed the Computer Science Network (CSNET) and again in 1986 when NSFNET provided access to supercomputer sites in the United States from research and education organizations. Commercial Internet service providers (ISPs) began to emerge in the late 1980s and early 1990s. The ARPANET was decommissioned in 1990. The Internet was commercialized in 1995 when NSFNET was decommissioned, removing the last restrictions on the use of the Internet to carry commercial traffic.
Since the mid-1990s, the Internet has had a revolutionary impact on culture and commerce, including the rise of near-instant communication by electronic mail, instant messaging, Voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP) "phone calls", two-way interactive video calls, and the World Wide Web with its discussion forums, blogs, social networking, and online shopping sites. The research and education community continues to develop and use advanced networks such as NSF's very high speed Backbone Network Service (vBNS),
Internet2, and National LambdaRail. Increasing amounts of data are transmitted at higher and higher speeds over fiber optic networks operating at 1-Gbit/s, 10-Gbit/s, or more. The Internet's takeover over the global communication landscape was almost instant in historical terms: it only communicated 1% of the information flowing through two-way telecommunications networks in the year 1993, already 51% by 2000, and more than 97% of the telecommunicated information by 2007. Today the Internet continues to grow, driven by ever greater amounts of online information, commerce, entertainment, and social networking.
Solitary
this history of Kwajalien isn't in dispute.
just your bullshit story about it.
don't want to get picked on? don't post stuff insulting our intelligence.
Quote from: "surly74"Quote from: "Solitary"Thanks for calling me a liar! At the time that was top secret even if it isn't now. I'm talking about when it was being built. Is that all you do is try to find faults with what people say here? :roll: Solitary
this is why.
QuoteI was being funny and told my younger son to look up Kwajalein (It was top secret at the time) on the internet and see what he finds
maybe you aren't a liar...maybe you are just grandpa simpson.
start a thread telling us how having an onion tied to your belt was the style at the time.
I thought it still was at the time. I did call my dad Gibby instead of dad, does that qualify for being a Simpson. :P Solitary
Quote from: "Solitary"Quote from: "bericks999"The Kwajalein Atoll has never been anything close to secret since the internet has existed.
Isn't it obvious I'm talking about it when it was being built? :-o Solitary
No it's not obvious, the whole story centered on how your son was being contacted by some government organization because he looked up something in relation to Kwajalein on the internet. The "internet" as you see it today, didn't exist well into the 90's and I know you weren't searching DARPAnet. Kwajelein hasn't had anything secret associated with it for at least two decades when your son conducted the search.
So, No, nothing about what you said is obvious other than the fact that you made it up!
Could we please get back to mocking the NSA?
sure, once the NSA posts on here.
Quote from: "surly74"this history of Kwajalien isn't in dispute.
just your bullshit story about it.
don't want to get picked on? don't post stuff insulting our intelligence.
OK Einstein! Solitary
Quote from: "Jason_Harvestdancer"Won't work. Their keyword searches now include context. You'll have to put those in a sentence.
He is right follow what he said.
I have some questions for you.
1.How can you be sure that there are real keyword ?
2.What is(are) your(s) source(s) ?
3.I suppose that you desire annoy the "Echelon Network" therefore if you can annoy them.
The next organisations will be annoy :
I.CSTC (
Communications Security Establishment of Canada [Canada])
II.DSD (
Defence Signals Directorate [Australia])
III.GCHQ (
Government Communications Headquarters [UK])
IV.GCSB (
Government Communications Security Bureau [New-Zealand])
V.NSA (
National Security Agency [USA])
Therefore the title of your thread is not really correct. Why did you this approximation ?
4.Why use this forum to do that ?
5.Can you read the contents of the next links if you want to know more ? (this is not a real question of course :))
Wikipedia :
1.CSTC : //http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communications_Security_Establishment_Canada
2.DSD : //http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defence_Signals_Directorate
3.ECHELON : //http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON
4.GCHQ : //http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Communications_Headquarters
5.GCSB : //http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Communications_Security_Bureau
6.NSA : //http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Agency
7.UKUSA : //http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UKUSA_Agreement
I'm curious which of the two is more likely, that people just don't understand how network communications work or that people believe the NSA has magical powers.
Yes, the NSA collects and analyses shitloads of traffic. They also carefully target the traffic they collect simply because it's both a total waste of time and technologically impossible to collect most network traffic.
I'm also curious what the hell people think the NSA is doing? Do people really think they're so interested in what websites you're visiting and what color your morning shit was? Is it possible, just perhaps they're really more interested in what the next terrorist plot may be?
The USA has a (somewhat unwarranted) love affair with "the troops". We have to support "the troops". Who exactly do people think the NSA is if not "the troops"?
Quote from: "aileron"I'm curious which of the two is more likely, that people just don't understand how network communications work or that people believe the NSA has magical powers.
Yes, the NSA collects and analyses shitloads of traffic. They also carefully target the traffic they collect simply because it's both a total waste of time and technologically impossible to collect most network traffic.
I'm also curious what the hell people think the NSA is doing? Do people really think they're so interested in what websites you're visiting and what color your morning shit was? Is it possible, just perhaps they're really more interested in what the next terrorist plot may be?
The USA has a (somewhat unwarranted) love affair with "the troops". We have to support "the troops". Who exactly do people think the NSA is if not "the troops"?
I'm OK with you. I know people who believe that they have many operators to monitor all traffic.
QuoteWho exactly do people think the NSA is if not "the troops"?
Well, I disagree with "the troops" jobs as well, so it should stand to reason I don't care for the NSA either.
However, the NSA is treating Americans as the enemy, and as an American I find that a bit annoying.
Quote from: "Shiranu"However, the NSA is treating Americans as the enemy, and as an American I find that a bit annoying.
Examples, please.
Quote from: "aileron"Quote from: "Shiranu"However, the NSA is treating Americans as the enemy, and as an American I find that a bit annoying.
Examples, please.
The fact that any American is warrant to have their information stored, be it Akhmad if who beats his wives to make them wear burqas, complain about the American government as "The Great Satan" and post, "Allah Akbar!" on their facebook or Joseph, who works down at the local food pantry every week and donates half his salary to charity.
The fact they can store information without probable cause, without a warrant... that's kinda treating us as if, "You are all suspected criminals/terrorists/enemies, now lets go break the law to prove it!".
Note: I only use "Terrorist Akhmad" given the context; if the NSA was saying it was looking into illegals from South of the border it would have been Don Juan Julio Julian Jose who sells marijuana and is suspected of running people across the border. Joseph was just the first name to come to mind.
Quote from: "Shiranu"The fact that any American is warrant to have their information stored...
QuoteThe fact they can store information without probable cause, without a warrant...
Storing information about you in terms of metadata and publicly available information does not require probable cause or a warrant. It never has. The only reason they have your data in there is because it's noise they need to filter out after they scooped up a lot of data looking for things they do care about.
If they were really treating Americans as enemies, they would use this data for things like blackmail, extortion, etc. The evidence supports the position that they're not using it for that purpose, but rather for the purposes of national security.
The more realistic question is what do we have to show for the expense? They claim it's working, but the necessary secrecy makes it hard to prove the ROI.
Quote... but rather for the purposes of national security.
Of course... lets infringe on people's privacy because security! Freedom! AMERICAAAAA!
And no, if they were treating us like terrorist/criminals/enemies, they would be treating us like suspected terrorist/criminals/enemies... they would be investigating us with (legally) no justification. Which is what they do.
QuoteThe more realistic question is what do we have to show for the expense? They claim it's working, but the necessary secrecy makes it hard to prove the ROI.
The fact that they can't offer one success story kinda makes me doubt its effectiveness. I mean... just one. They say it helped prevent 10, no wait make that dozens!... no wait, 50!... can we get the details of a single one?
Of the 42 (in June) confirmed terrorist plots since 9/11, 9 were carried out without the government stopping them. Of the remaining 33? AT LEAST 29 were uncovered by "traditional" law enforcement methods. That gives, of confirmed terrorist attempts, at most 4 out of 42 attempts being possibly stopped by the NSA. That is a piss poor ratio for the money they drop on it and the civil rights the infringe on.
Quote from: "aileron"Quote from: "Shiranu"The fact that any American is warrant to have their information stored...
QuoteThe fact they can store information without probable cause, without a warrant...
Storing information about you in terms of metadata and publicly available information does not require probable cause or a warrant. It never has. The only reason they have your data in there is because it's noise they need to filter out after they scooped up a lot of data looking for things they do care about.
If they were really treating Americans as enemies, they would use this data for things like blackmail, extortion, etc. The evidence supports the position that they're not using it for that purpose, but rather for the purposes of national security.
The more realistic question is what do we have to show for the expense? They claim it's working, but the necessary secrecy makes it hard to prove the ROI.
Given government's propensity for abusing what powers it has, I'm distrustful of secrecy cloaking domestic spying. The fact that the subject of such spying cannot even complain about it publicly would seem to violate the right to free speech, as well.
I don't like my government treating me as a potential terrorist. And I don't like not being able to object, publicly, were I to discover that I was being surveilled.
Security as a justification for the erosion of rights is the tired ploy of a power-hungry government seeking ever-finer levels of control over citizens. Perhaps you're comfortable with that, but I'm not.
Quote from: "aileron"Quote from: "Shiranu"However, the NSA is treating Americans as the enemy, and as an American I find that a bit annoying.
Examples, please.
The incredibly badly named PATRIOT act.
Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"Given government's propensity for abusing what powers it has, I'm distrustful of secrecy cloaking domestic spying.
Spying involves obtaining secret or confidential information. If you're posting things to publicly available websites, how secret is it?
QuoteThe fact that the subject of such spying cannot even complain about it publicly would seem to violate the right to free speech, as well.
Not sure I understand your concern here. People complain publicly about NSA activity all the time.
QuoteI don't like my government treating me as a potential terrorist.
The more prosaic reality is that your data to them is just analytic noise that must be filtered out to get what they really want.
Quote from: "Jason78"Quote from: "aileron"Quote from: "Shiranu"However, the NSA is treating Americans as the enemy, and as an American I find that a bit annoying.
Examples, please.
The incredibly badly named PATRIOT act.
I'm not a fan of the PATRIOT Act, but how is this an example of the NSA treating Americans as the enemy?
Quote from: "aileron"Quote from: "Shiranu"However, the NSA is treating Americans as the enemy, and as an American I find that a bit annoying.
Examples, please.
Well there is this.
QuoteIn the opinion by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court denouncing the practice, the judge wrote that the NSA had advised the court that "the volume and nature of the information it had been collecting is fundamentally different than what the court had been led to believe," and went on to say the court must consider "whether targeting and minimization procedures comport with the 4th Amendment."
This is what they are talking about.
QuoteThe NSA disclosed that it gathers some 250 million internet communications each year, with some 9 percent from these "upstream" channels, amounting to between 20 million to 25 million emails a year. The agency used statistical analysis to estimate that of those, possibly as many as 56,000 Internet communications collected were sent by Americans or persons in the U.S. with no connection to terrorism.
This is how they are doing it.
QuoteFor instance, two senior intelligence officials said, when an American logged into an email server and looked at the emails in his or her inbox, that screen shot of the emails could be collected, together with Internet transactions by a terrorist suspect being targeted by the NSA - because that suspect's communications were being sent on the same fiber optic cable by the same Internet provider, in a bundled packet of data.
If they are capturing everything in the pipe at the same time as the targeted communications then their estimate of how many untargeted communications are collected is considerably understated. Not only that but they are getting a lot more than just a screen shot of your inbox.
Quote from: "PopeyesPappy"QuoteFor instance, two senior intelligence officials said, when an American logged into an email server and looked at the emails in his or her inbox, that screen shot of the emails could be collected, together with Internet transactions by a terrorist suspect being targeted by the NSA - because that suspect's communications were being sent on the same fiber optic cable by the same Internet provider, in a bundled packet of data.
"A bundled packet of data"? Talk about people not understanding how network traffic works. That's like a phone tap monitoring all phone calls going through a central office.
For what it's worth, when I was there us lower-echelon guys had it drummed into us that domestic surveillance was only conducted with the express authorization of the Attorney General. It wasn't the NSA that chucked that requirement, it was Congress.
Quote from: "aileron"Quote from: "Jason78"The incredibly badly named PATRIOT act.
I'm not a fan of the PATRIOT Act, but how is this an example of the NSA treating Americans as the enemy?
It allows the surveillance of american citizens with no oversight.