Telling a science professor at a major college not to sell ID in a science class is not censorship. It is a defense of scientific FACT. The morons defending this professor at Ball State need to understand that ID IS NOT SCIENCE, and has no business being even discussed by a professor or passed of as science.
http://www.wnd.com/2013/07/atheist-grou ... -censored/ (http://www.wnd.com/2013/07/atheist-group-wants-prof-questioning-evolution-censored/)
I love the way that those fanatics think that if evolution were to no longer exist, then the only other choice is their particular religion.
As ever, the comments are atrocious.
Also the article title doesn't match the actual content. If the prof was actually "questioning evolution" nobody would have a problem. But he isn't doing that; he's trying to preach an unproven hypothesis as truth instead. And that's scientifically problematic.
Quote from: "Plu"And that's scientifically problematic.
And unethical.
Quote from: "Jason78"I love the way that those fanatics think that if evolution were to no longer exist, then the only other choice is their particular religion.
You can bitch slap idiots like this by asking them the following.
Skeptic to believer "Would you buy your own ID argument if someone with a different pet deity would argue ID too?"
So see if you can spot the pattern.
"Intelligent design proves the existence of Allah"
"Intelligent design proves the existence of Yahwey"
"Intelligent design proves the existence of Vishnu"
Not to mention how crappy this "designer" is in reality. Gives whales and dolphins separate breathing/eating tubes, but humans can choke to death. Cockroaches and bacteria outnumber humans. A giraffe has a nerve that goes from one ear, all the way down the neck, and back up to the other ear.
Oh and as Hitchens put it about ID, "What kind of "design" is it to put an entertainment system into the middle of a sewage system?" Meaning our sex organs.
Quote from: "Plu"As ever, the comments are atrocious.
Yeah, but so so funny :D
I wish I could find the comments funny. I find them terrifying.
Hey, it's Indiana.. what else did you expect? Ohio? :roll:
I made the mistake of clicking on a link to their article on Calif. K-12 trans rights bill after reading this linked one
When are we just going to fire all the Repubs off into the sun and get this over with
I am seriously, seriously sick of their shit.
I'm getting sick and tired of a vast percentage of the world calling me a mentally insane disgusting sexual deviant.
I need to go calm down, sorry.
I have got to side with the professor and his supporters on this. While I don't agree with ID, I do think he should be allowed to voice his views. If we deny him the freedom of speech to espouse crazy ideas, where will it stop? Keep in mind, during the antebellum period before the Civil War, abolitionists were denied the right to speak in many southern states.
And I don't think he will change many minds. Not for any length of time anyway. Those that agree will continue to agree, despite all of the evidence against. Those who disagree will learn how to better refute these arguments. So, it is just an airing of stupid ideas. And we cannot stop the airing of stupid ideas, without stopping the airing of reasonable ideas.
We should be extra careful on denying the those who disagree with us their right to do so. We are out numbered in this country by the religious and ridiculous.
It's not censorship to tell professors not to teach ID as legitimate biology any more than it is censorship to tell professors not to teach astrology as legitimate astronomy. Colleges pay professors to teach a particular subject, they are not obliged to let him or her teach a different topic. The professor's right to say what he wants when he's not getting paid for it is uninfringed. I can't teach evolution at my job, and it doesn't feel like I'm being censored, it feels like I'm expected to act like a professional.
Keep in mind, this is an elective seminar. He is a physics professor, not a biology professor, and the seminar was approved by others. If a biology professor wanted to have a seminar, which was approved by a board, to teach astrology, I don't see any problem with it. If students want the course and a professor is willing to teach it, then not allowing it is an infringement on first amendment rights, IMHO.
In other words, I may not agree with what he is teaching, but I will defend his right to teach it. As long as the class isn't advocating violence, then it should be allowed. Of course, I reserve the right not to take the class if I don't want it.
As long as what he's teaching is scientifically sound and an elective class, it should be ok. But I don't think any school should be required to let a professor teach a class in bullshit, no matter how much students might want it. Schools are science institutes. They should let their professors teach science while on the premises.
Sorry for my outburst earlier, folks.
There was just a bit of a trigger and I sorta reacted =/
Quote from: "Rin Hato"Sorry for my outburst earlier, folks.
There was just a bit of a trigger and I sorta reacted =/
To what? Theism being bullshit? Why shouldn't you be angry at claims of invisible friends? Wouldn't you also be angry if you had a friend today who claimed Thor made lightening? You might like them personally, but that does not mean the claim deserves value.
Haha, no, it was about another article to do with trans people. I got a bit... annoyed.
It's okay, Rin, we love you no matter what your gender status is. Not everyone is smart or compassionate enough to realize that it has nothing to do with perversion.
Also... Saying that ID has no place in a science classroom is no more censorship than saying that phrenology has no place in a medical classroom.
Quote from: "Rin Hato"Haha, no, it was about another article to do with trans people. I got a bit... annoyed.
I'd say that "rant" (kind of a tame one) is far more than justified. Don't apologize for that. I'll be appalled and disgusted right along with you.
Quote from: "FinalSomnia"Also... Saying that ID has no place in a science classroom is no more censorship than saying that phrenology has no place in a medical classroom.
Truth be told, I'd love for someone to read the bumps on my head. =P~
Quote from: "Mermaid"Quote from: "Rin Hato"Haha, no, it was about another article to do with trans people. I got a bit... annoyed.
I'd say that "rant" (kind of a tame one) is far more than justified. Don't apologize for that. I'll be appalled and disgusted right along with you.
Haha, I'm not very good at ranting. I tend to forget what I was going to say and end up just posting half of a rant and calling it quits while I shoot dudes on Battlefield.
It was more of a little outburst of pent-up rage, TBH :lol:
While I sympathize with the comment about freedom of speech and all, I regard ID on a science campus, in any capacity, in the same light as that arab proverb about once the camel gets his nose inside the tent the next thing you know you're outside and the camel is in the tent.
ozymandias wrote:
QuoteWhile I sympathize with the comment about freedom of speech and all, I regard ID on a science campus, in any capacity, in the same light as that arab proverb about once the camel gets his nose inside the tent the next thing you know you're outside and the camel is in the tent.
I think this is the wrong way to look at it. For one, this sounds to me like the dying gasp for disproving evolution. Also, we atheists were shoved out of the tent for centuries, now we have the ability to be big about letting them have a nose in our tent. We are not afraid of Christians converting us, whereas they are terrorified of us converting them.
I really think FFRF messed up on this one. If it was a high school elective, then I would support them in this. But, as it is at a university, even if they do get some tax money, the students have to pay some in order to take the seminar. At least I assume they do. So, it would have been better to have just let them have this, rather than giving them the ability to yell censorship.
And as we all know, Christians know about censorship. In other words, we atheists should be extra careful not to follow in the ways of the Christian majority. Two wrongs don't make a right. Unless of course, you are a Christian. Then you can add 1+1+1 and get one. But, then we think differently and we should show it.
Personally, I think the FFRF was just looking for something to raise cane about to justify their existence and found this seminar. There are a lot of other real religious travesties going on, which could be addressed without making atheists look like a bunch of censors.
We can't really know whether or not they are just trying to justify their existance or whether the class would really amount to just a sermon, unfortunately. If the source material were online, we could have a look. But I give it a 99% chance that it's just nonsense presented as fact, which really has no place in a university.
That kind of dishonesty is how they try to get to their members in the first place. The last thing we should do is show that being dishonest pays the bills and gets you the ability to teach classes.
My question here to the Discovery Institute: would you hire an atheist?
Quote from: "josephpalazzo"My question here to the Discovery Institute: would you hire an atheist?
I'd apply to Disney World before I'd apply to the "Discovery Institute". At least Disney is honest about selling fiction.
I agree.I've always been of the opinion that knowledge is good and ignorance is bad. I raised both of my children as Catholics for my wife with that understanding. If someone hears ignorance and is bright enough they will realize how stupid it is. Both of my middle-aged men have been atheist since they were teenagers, the oldest one came home from a religious class when he was 14 and told his mother he was never going back because it doesn't make any logical sense. He is an electronic engineer with two patents and his own company in California.
The other one quit when he was 15 and explored other religions while still believing in God, and found the Hindu religion he liked because he was next in line of being reincarnated and reaching Nirvana. This lasted about a year and then he became an atheist. He lives at home even though he is married to a woman in the Netherlands because of his very bad health from congenital scoliosis. He is a computer wiz even though he has never taken the subject, and a graphic artist who did my avatar. Solitary
Reading WND is always a good way for me to reaffirm my feelings on conservatives and ensure myself that said feelings are entirely justified.
The commenters there are living, breathing monuments to abhorrent morals and mental deficiency.
No big surprise that World Shit Daily dredged this up. Those people are still coming to grips with the fact that Obama was born in this country. :Hangman:
Quote from: "LikelyToBreak"I have got to side with the professor and his supporters on this. While I don't agree with ID, I do think he should be allowed to voice his views.
Voice his views, yes. Teach bullshit as fact, from a position of authority? Sorry, but that subverts the very notion of "school".
The DI itself has admitted that ID is just a dishonest name for Christian Creationism. If the course was labeled something like "The Christian god and the creation of everything", which would at least be honest, there wouldn't be any discussion.
I wanna chemistry teacher that teaches alchemy instead. I'm also offended by the idea of the water cycle! I mean, it's clearly God's love that replenishes aquifers!
Quote from: "Colanth"Quote from: "LikelyToBreak"I have got to side with the professor and his supporters on this. While I don't agree with ID, I do think he should be allowed to voice his views.
Voice his views, yes. Teach bullshit as fact, from a position of authority? Sorry, but that subverts the very notion of "school".
The DI itself has admitted that ID is just a dishonest name for Christian Creationism. If the course was labeled something like "The Christian god and the creation of everything", which would at least be honest, there wouldn't be any discussion.
Yes, OUTSIDE THE CONTEXT OF SCIENCE.
If a college wants to start an "elective" course on broom flight and call it "Harry Potter theory of flight" I DON'T GIVE ONE FUCK.
If there don't have to be any standards, then because a business is private, that means that one car company who makes breaks by universal standards is being a dick, because another car company wants "pixy dust" theory on breaks. Who cares, because it is freedom of speech.
I don't give a fuck about freedom of speech, that is a given. But education ON SCIENTIFIC ISSUES, is not something you hand off to comic book assholes who don't like the fact that time has passed them by, because of some stupid sense of political correctness.
YES they can claim whatever the fuck they want. Like you can claim the earth is flat all you want. But I don't want education standards based on archaic superstitious BULLSHIT.